Abortion and the 2008 Election

[diane_k]

I have a question for you all.......we all know how right wing christian conservatives will vote for which ever nominee is PRO-LIFE......How do the muslims view this issue and what impact would that have on how you would vote.........

For myself, I am pro-life (NOW, not always so) to some extent however I would not allow my views of abortion sway me away from a Pro-choice candidate.

I was just curious......would you negate a Pro-choice candidates other committments and ideas simply because he supports the right to abortion?

 

[ShyHijabi]

It doesn't matter what the cadidate's personal beliefs are, only the supreme court can overturn Roe vs Wade with a majority vote. And unless three judges die/quit in the next four years that's not going to happen.

Most of the members of this board are not voting age and/or American citizens so I don't think you are going to get any real data on this matter. Quit the opposite, I believe it will cause fitnah.

 

[diane_k]

Still politics different discussion.......Sarah Palin (Satan Palin) was videotaped being "protected from witches".....this is just plum ridiculous....this woman is an IDIOT and anyone who buys into McSame and her should be boxed up in a POD and dropped into the ocean somewhere.......

 

[xSharingan01x]

I have a question for you all.......we all know how right wing christian conservatives will vote for which ever nominee is PRO-LIFE......How do the muslims view this issue and what impact would that have on how you would vote.........

For myself, I am pro-life (NOW, not always so) to some extent however I would not allow my views of abortion sway me away from a Pro-choice candidate.

I was just curious......would you negate a Pro-choice candidates other committments and ideas simply because he supports the right to abortion?

:salam2:

This is one of those issues which the politicians use to capture votes by fooling the public.
Like Sister Sarah pointed out, the presidents cannot do anything by themselves, unless they nominate some one for supreme court, which is also rare because during a president's term most likely a supreme court seat will not be vacant.

This abortion debate has been going on for years now, ever since Roe vs. Wade. Since then we had two Republican presidents and only one democrat. Apparently the Republicans are pro life, but what have they achieved with two republican presidents? Nothing! It is all talk without any significant effect on the actual policy .

So abortion is not an issue for me, because the president is powerless to do anything about it, aside from nominating judges.

So, I will go ahead and vote for Obama (solely based on the war in Iraq, or else I would have voted a 3rd party candidate )
, Insha Allah.




Shoaib

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

I agree, right wing politicians use these "moral" issues to fool voters in the bible belt and when they are voted in, nothing changes in this regard. Bush surrounded himself by Evangelicals in the
White House to use these people into thinking they had something in common but he made a mockery of them behind their backs. I come from a country where abortion is illegal because of the heavy influence of the Catholic Church on government

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

ps - whether a candidate claims to be pro-life or pro-choice would never impact my voting decision

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,


I am getting very confused. Help me out here. Abortion as a birth control device is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Why discuss it. It is a wrong.

Just because you live in a "Catholic" country. Please do some research on what the Catholic church has allowed. Of course they don't need laws on abortion..peodophiles have a different agenda. Be careful with the argument you raise. You mentioned the Evangelicals and Bush and you counter that with the Catholic church. Poor argument. If you are a Muslim there is no difference between right wing and left wing.

Obama is a puppet of APIC..how can we support a man that has told the world he has nothing to do with Muslims...he has come out and stated he is not Musllim.


I need to go rest. Please explain to me I am wrong...I do not wish to start fitna.

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

u did misunderstand me, mirajmom. It is ramadan so we must be patient. i was neither presenting or countering any argument as you seem to imply but merely stating a few observations from my own experience in ireland and the usa- u don't have to tell me abortion is wrong, i nearly died while pregnant with my daughter in 2004 and was urged by florida drs to have an abortion which i refused of course. I was not defending the catholic church, just stating a fact and this was not an evangelical vs catholic bashing session so i will refrain. I am muslim and it is, with all due respect, not up to u to tell me that i can't make a difference between left wing and right wing politicians as i do and i reserve the right to use my best judgement with Allah's help :S

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,


You have taken personally what I wrote. I stated the argument you presented, as you wrote it, was poor. You wrote " I come from a country where abortion is illegal because of the heavy influence of the Catholic Church on government ".
I responded to that segment. The Catholic Church is right wing and conservative. It is worse. The Catholic Church is the most hypocritical sect of Christianity. It is insidious.
I do not read minds. I had no context for your statement. Your statement was unclear. It had nothing to do with right wing or left wing pro-choice politics of the US.

 

[Khalil2u]

This election has me torn

Salaam,
Hello from USA. I am of voting age and voting in this election perplexes me. I hate john McSame and that puppet he has as his running mate. I would never vote for him. Obama on the other hand has disrespected Muslims over and over. Instead of standing up and saying I'm not a Muslim but if I was a Muslim so what. This he did not do he just stated over and over he's not Muslim like being a Muslim is a disease. Even McSame did not show that level of disrespect.

As a true Muslim this election season I feel I have no need to vote. I live by the laws of the Quran. So it makes me no difference who wins. Allah SWT is my judge and the prophet pbuh is my leader.

However I still have to live in this country of mine. I hate this Iraq war and I want it to end. Obama says he will end it. We must not forget the other war. Afganistan. Obama wants to continue with this war and increase troops and death there. I don't agree with this. The 19 people that destroyed the world trade center are dead. So who is your war with? So I don't know about supporting anyone. I don't agree with either. The ending of war is the only thing I am concerned with. Neither of these candidates will do this. So I will probably choose to stay home and beg Allah SWT to stop these things. I have a better chance of getting what I want this way.

This will be something that will be so hard for me. I'm an African American and I see what goes on in my community with young black youth and men. I think Obama winning will give them pride and maybe help them to see themselves in the position he's in. See that they are more then pimps and drug dealers. I think he really is a hope to the American people. Like I said it will be hard for me not to throw on that Obama T-shirt and vote. I pray to you Allah SWT to give me guidence and a sign of what I should do 11\4\08. Inshallah my mind will stop going in 100 different directions on this.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

The men who blew up the World Trade Towers are not dead. They are living in the form of McCain and you got it..Obama.

Obama can not do anything for African Americans. This is illogical thinking. He is just as lost as the African Americans who refuse to listen to the calling of Islam and go to chruch. They know it is not the religion of their forefathers.

Obama can not get the US out of Iraq. He is in the hands of the Zionists. And there is no war in Afganistan. Congress declares war.

Obama is part and parcel of the oppressors. Do you really want young black men growing up to be Zionist puppets.

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

I understand yr dilemma. I was so excited about becoming an American citizen so that I could vote but now Obama is just slightly the lesser of two evils in my opinion. I have moved back to Europe and will not be voting afterall.

also, to mirajmom, i was not presenting any argument as previously stated but if you are trying to cause fitna this would surprise me so i will just take it you are very opinionated about the catholic church and you should address that elsewhere. May we seek refuge in Allah alone. .

 

[Khalil2u]

Abortion a touchy subject in USA

Salaam,
As far as abortion is concerned Allah SWT says that this is wrong. Most people that are pro choice are religious. Just as most gays are religious etc. They know that these things are wrong according to their faith. Man will always invent and dream up things to make this life more pleasurable. Having a child to support and love 24\7 is hard. To some even though it is hard it is still pleasurable. To some however they don't find having children as a pleasure or maybe they don't think it's the right time in their lives. They still need to party ,go to school or this is not the right guy etc. So abortion is there to stop this unwanted stress into their lives. To keep them having pleasure. To keep their lives the way they want. This is a horrible thing. I don't agree with abortion as a birth control method. Abortion has taken many lives away from this earth unlawfully.

However I am pro choice. Under extreme circumstances. If I was raped and got pregnant I would get an abortion and pray for Allah SWT to please forgive me. I would not want to look at my baby and see a rapist. Some woman have babies inside the womb that are severely disfigured and have birth defects that will cause the baby to die as soon as it comes out of the womb. Because the womb is the only place that it can live. In this circumstance I would have an abortion. I would then pray for Allah SWT to forgive me. I personally could not handle these things. Others can handle these things. So I don't think the government should make these choices for a woman. This is just my opinion. I know that a lot of people on this site will not agree with this. I pray that Allah SWT will never put me in this position so I won't have to make that choice.

Another thing Christians in this country want to run our government. They have schools dedicated to this. They want to graduate these people and send them directly to the white house. This will enable them to push their Christian agendas. Not only with abortion. They want to teach that Isa is God at every school. They want America to go back to being a white Christian nation. America no longer fits into this label. Abortion and birth control was made for this sole purpose. Extermination and sterilization was pushed and advertised to those who didn't fit the profile. What they didn't count on was their precious white Christian women doing these things. White Christian women have the lowest birth rate in this country. They utilize birth control at a higher rate than any other race. Have less children than minority women to the extent that they will soon be the minority in this country. The media and feminists push the idea that having children is bad for women. Especially minority women. That is why minorities have abortions at much higher rates than whites. They are told that you are to poor. You have too many kids already. Do you want to be on welfare like your first generation. Or do you want to go to school and have a nice car and house. you can't do that with a baby. You need to be on birth control and abort your babies when you get pregnant. You will fit in better if you do these things. Being a stay at home mom is degrading and humiliating for women in America. Women should only have 1 or 2 kids. Don't have kids until you are 30 or 40 when complications are higher. This is the secular society that is America. Wonder why abortion is such a big issue here. Having children is like a disease here instead of a gift from God. So until being a mom is # 1 for women and made to be beautiful and wonderful. Abortion rates will only rise in the USA.

Sorry if you don't agree with some of the statements that I have made. Check your facts and you will see that this stuff is true and real.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

An argument is a conviction. I was not in heated discussion. This is about sematics and not fitna. When you write please be ready to defend your statements. You did not.

"take it you are very opinionated about the catholic church and you should address that elsewhere"....I did not enter the Catholic Church into the post. You did. Where shall I take it? And I will.



We can not feed into racism. We know the US is racist. The bottom line is these women opt for abortion. We can not stereotype.


The oppresors use topics such as abortion to get us wound up and fighting. This post is an excellent example of that. The oppressors need bodies..they need slaves or underlinks to keep up the work of oppression. And they do that by dividing us.

 

[xSharingan01x]

Salaam,

An argument is a conviction. I was not in heated discussion. This is about sematics and not fitna. When you write please be ready to defend your statements. You did not.

"take it you are very opinionated about the catholic church and you should address that elsewhere"....I did not enter the Catholic Church into the post. You did. Where shall I take it? And I will.



We can not feed into racism. We know the US is racist. The bottom line is these women opt for abortion. We can not stereotype.


The oppresors use topics such as abortion to get us wound up and fighting. This post is an excellent example of that. The oppressors need bodies..they need slaves or underlinks to keep up the work of oppression. And they do that by dividing us.

Saalamu elai kum Apa,

I believe you misunderstood Sister's Camelboudizi's original post.
She was by no means making argument for or against abortion. She was addressing OP topic "whether abortion plays a role in voting decision", and sister stated it does not play a role. She came to the same conclusion as Me and Sister Sarah which is "presidents are in a sense powerless to overturn roe vs. wade" and abortion is an issue they use to grab votes, not because they will actually change anything.
This by no means, implies we are pro-abortion.
Every Muslim here will agree with you that they are pro life (unless they can find legal bases under Sharia for specific circumstances).

Sister Cambelboudizi, I do agree with you when you said abortion will never play a role in my voting decision (so long as the presidents remain powerless).

So once again, the thread is about abortion influencing voting decision, not whether abortion is right or wrong.

About voting for Obama.
It is unfair to single out Obama as a Zionist, I don't think you can find any president in recent time who did not support the Zionist. American presidential candidates in a sense HAVE TO support Israel or else they will not make it to the white house. I think Obama's 'Zionist credentials' are less than McCain's.
I hate to justify picking a candidate based on the saying "lesser of the two evil", however I find myself in a difficult situation because of the war in Iraq. If there were no wars, then I would have voted for a 3rd party candidate.

The reasoning I'm using is that, If McCain wins he will continue to have military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
If Obama wins, then it will be Afghanistan (I will give him the benefit of doubt).
I believe it is better for the Mujaheddin to have one front in Afghanistan instead of fighting in two places at once. Afghan people are not easily subdued, and the American people do not have patience to support a prolong war.





Shoaib

 

[diane_k]

I am Pro-Life and I would vote for a Pro-Choice president if I agree with their other policies....in this years election Obama is a clear choice for me. I don't understand why though it seems that so many Pro-Lifer's ONLY care about that policy and that is why they will vote McCain. They let their Pro-Life sentiments blind them to all else and that scares me about the right wing Christians. I guess the President could overturn Roe vs. Wade if they filled the supreme court with Pro-choice judges...but then that would mean that other judges would have to retire.....which doesnt' seem likely.....

I am not against someone else having an abortion, they no their circumstances better than me.......but I do think it is wrong ( and I have been there when younger).........but I also stood up to my husband's request all 3 times to terminate our babies......and he is Muslim...........

But the point of the post was exactly what Sharington stated and thank you for clarifying.....the bickering off topic was not necessary.