Afghan boy killed for teaching English????

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
Yes I have read the taliban speeches to the UN. During the taliban regime Abdul Hakeem Mujahid in his application for a seat on the assembly stated that the Taliban's ban on women's education was because "Afghanistan lacks the resources to educate them". He also said the taliban do not trust the values that became part of the education system under previous governments, being another reason they totally banned womens education.

OK, so it is a resource issue (the right syllabus is just another resource). It does not sound exactly evil. Men have to provide for women afterall so it is maybe right they are helped a little bit. In addtion, it begs the question, what proportion of Afghanistan boys were going to school in these days? What is the exact size of the discrepancy ... maybe if we knew the number we would have realised that it is not that uncommon in poor countries.

So I am curious as to why the taliban themselves have stated they banned womens education in Afghanistan but you seem to think they did not? You seem to be very proud of your education and so you should be but do you not believe our sisters in Afghanistan deserve the same educational opportunities?

Of course they do. Except that they deserve security and food more. It is a matter of prioritisation. People often forget that taliban ruled a war ridden country that was under sactions and for only 5 years. How much can you really achieve within that time?

I think it is also very interesting to note that the daughter of Mr Mujahid went to a private school in Pakistan while he was helping to ban womens education.

Actually, this is against you. It comes to show that taliban was not against women education in the right conditions.

So yes I do read what taliban spokesmen say when they try to defend their decision that all windows of homes with women in must be blacked out, women that have to travel must do so on special buses with blacked out windows .... the list goes on and on. Could you live in almost permanent darkness? I think I would go mad and I find nothing in Islam that suggests I should live this way, like a small animal in a dark hole. Islam even offers more rights than this to prisoners of war.

I have never heard about that and would be interested in your sources. Anyway, presuming that this was right, would it not be similar to building special swimming pools for *modest* women & creating spaces -albeight small- where muslim women can feel they are not under the eyes of intruders ?

It would have all been nice if they requested electric powered automated shades and special AC car chambers for their women except that they just did not have it!

Even if we reject everything written about the taliban by a non Muslim, I do wonder why the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) has withheld both a seat and recognition from the taliban?

I'd not hold my breath for whatever the OIC say/do not say. They are not an authority in my book.

It deeply saddens me that these sisters are living under virtual permanent house arrest and people still defend these men and their actions.

I fully appreciate your sentements. However, -although I disagree with the taliban on many things- I don't think this justifies dropping 1/2 ton bombs on them & on their women. If a father was short on money and decided to get his son married rather than sending his daughter to the college then this is not exactly a crime theat deserves capital punishment.

Salam alaikoom
 

uskupi

Junior Member
OK, so it is a resource issue (the right syllabus is just another resource). It does not sound exactly evil. Men have to provide for women afterall so it is maybe right they are helped a little bit. In addtion, it begs the question, what proportion of Afghanistan boys were going to school in these days? What is the exact size of the discrepancy ... maybe if we knew the number we would have realised that it is not that uncommon in poor countries.



Of course they do. Except that they deserve security and food more. It is a matter of prioritisation. People often forget that taliban ruled a war ridden country that was under sactions and for only 5 years. How much can you really achieve within that time?



Actually, this is against you. It comes to show that taliban was not against women education in the right conditions.



I have never heard about that and would be interested in your sources. Anyway, presuming that this was right, would it not be similar to building special swimming pools for *modest* women & creating spaces -albeight small- where muslim women can feel they are not under the eyes of intruders ?

It would have all been nice if they requested electric powered automated shades and special AC car chambers for their women except that they just did not have it!



I'd not hold my breath for whatever the OIC say/do not say. They are not an authority in my book.



I fully appreciate your sentements. However, -although I disagree with the taliban on many things- I don't think this justifies dropping 1/2 ton bombs on them & on their women. If a father was short on money and decided to get his son married rather than sending his daughter to the college then this is not exactly a crime theat deserves capital punishment.

Salam alaikoom

assalam alaikum... i was reading the answers you geve and i have to admit that they are very reasonable to me ...assalam alaikum
 

ya allah madad

0mm3afnan
So yes I do read what taliban spokesmen say when they try to defend their decision that all windows of homes with women in must be blacked out, women that have to travel must do so on special buses with blacked out windows .... the list goes on and on. Could you live in almost permanent darkness? I think I would go mad and I find nothing in Islam that suggests I should live this way, like a small animal in a dark hole. Islam even offers more rights than this to prisoners of war.

before taliban,Afganistan had been ruled by a multitude of tyrrant land lords and afghanistan was divided into hundred small states.they had demarcated their own boundries.
they would make the women hostage so as to get their debts back or they would stop the poors and get their daughters and the poor men were not supposed to make any protest.
taliban were the students of a medrassah.one of such victims wrote a letter to mullah umar(he was not a land lord) he along with his studentssaidlabaik to her ,made her free ,but there was not only one sister,hundred of such sisters were waiting for them.they got themselves organized and that was how they came into power.
as for to black out the windows was not to make them prisoners but to protect them from these land lords .as for education ,what were the then prevailing situation in afghanistan?
there was no educational system,no constitiution , every where there was just chaos, and social and political unrest.
let me ask just one qustion ,if u have the danger of being attacked,would prefer a car with black window or seethrough?
Allah knows best
 

dianek

Junior Member
before taliban,Afganistan had been ruled by a multitude of tyrrant land lords and afghanistan was divided into hundred small states.they had demarcated their own boundries.
they would make the women hostage so as to get their debts back or they would stop the poors and get their daughters and the poor men were not supposed to make any protest.
taliban were the students of a medrassah.one of such victims wrote a letter to mullah umar(he was not a land lord) he along with his studentssaidlabaik to her ,made her free ,but there was not only one sister,hundred of such sisters were waiting for them.they got themselves organized and that was how they came into power.
as for to black out the windows was not to make them prisoners but to protect them from these land lords .as for education ,what were the then prevailing situation in afghanistan?
there was no educational system,no constitiution , every where there was just chaos, and social and political unrest.
let me ask just one qustion ,if u have the danger of being attacked,would prefer a car with black window or seethrough?
Allah knows best

So you never felt oppressed by them? I had heard that a husband once let his wife die during childbirth along with child rather than have a male dr. tend to her. Is this common? And WHY? If a male doctor is all there is to safeguard the health of his wife and child would that be a haraam act?
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
So you never felt oppressed by them? I had heard that a husband once let his wife die during childbirth along with child rather than have a male dr. tend to her. Is this common? And WHY? If a male doctor is all there is to safeguard the health of his wife and child would that be a haraam act?

If this was true then this husband is just foolish. In Islam there is what is known as Fiqh Alawlaweyat (priorities rulings). He clearly need to get his priorities right .... and WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS HAPPENED ??? (not shouting, just asserting).

In the UK, only last week a Jehovah witness woman died during birth because she, and her family refused blood transfusion. You just do not hear the same amount of vilification about their religion, and certainly no one is suggesting that bombing them is a fair game.
 

dianek

Junior Member
If this was true then this husband is just foolish. In Islam there is what is known as Fiqh Alawlaweyat (priorities rulings). He clearly need to get his priorities right .... and WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS HAPPENED ??? (not shouting, just asserting).

In the UK, only last week a Jehovah witness woman died during birth because she, and her family refused blood transfusion. You just do not hear the same amount of vilification about their religion, and certainly no one is suggesting that bombing them is a fair game.

the JW's, they knock on my door WAY to early on Saturdays to preach......they finally stopped coming as Imed ended up preaching to them!!!! And the US did destroy a religious sect in WACO TEXAS back in the 90's............Now if we can just off the Mormon's! (All in sarcasm!)
 

Amirah20

Junior Member
OMG! why oh why.

Panjshir, Afghanistan – Nov 18, 2007 in the late afternoon hours the Taliban militants killed a room full of women who secretly meet in a small classroom. The women were brutally murdered simple for trying to get some education, police said on sunday.

Taliban militants raided and killed a classroom full of women who were learning how to read English. Officials say the Taliban raided the class which was secretly being run by a female teacher. The Islamist militant consider it un-Islamic for women to be educated.

For more on this story go to: www.westernbull*!*!*!*!.com

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Mrmuslim

Smile you are @ TTI
Staff member
salaam alikom

I think the subject or the news is false Allah knows best watching this video
show you its opposit of what they mentioned in the news... they teaching people english !!!!


But Allahknows , if some one killed some one no matter with reason or without nreason Allah will punish them, Prophet peace be up on him said,(in the meaning of hadith)

If Kabbah broken rock by rock better than killing a Muslim.

beside a Muslim killing a Muslim and even non muslim with no right he will be judged in front of Allah for opressing a human being soul.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21759
 

ya allah madad

0mm3afnan
So you never felt oppressed by them? I had heard that a husband once let his wife die during childbirth along with child rather than have a male dr. tend to her. Is this common? And WHY? If a male doctor is all there is to safeguard the health of his wife and child would that be a haraam act?
ITS A VERY GOOD JOKE REALLY:lol:
YOU WILL NEVERFIND A SINGLE MALE GYNAECOLOGIST IN AFGHANISTAN

 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
Panjshir, Afghanistan – Nov 18, 2007 in the late afternoon hours the Taliban militants killed a room full of women who secretly meet in a small classroom. The women were brutally murdered simple for trying to get some education, police said on sunday.

Taliban militants raided and killed a classroom full of women who were learning how to read English. Officials say the Taliban raided the class which was secretly being run by a female teacher. The Islamist militant consider it un-Islamic for women to be educated.

For more on this story go to: www.westernbull*!*!*!*!.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I take it this is a joke ??
 

Masria

Junior Member
Actually, this is against you. It comes to show that taliban was not against women education in the right conditions.

Apologies for not getting back to the discussion earlier but I have been very busy with work.

I am sorry but to me it is just hypocracy. To introduce a law that bans women from education and then circumvent that law by using you rmoney to send your daughter outside the country simply suggests hypocracy. If it is a law you agree with (which he must have, as he helped to introduce it) then why did he not abide by this law?

Anyway, presuming that this was right, would it not be similar to building special swimming pools for *modest* women & creating spaces -albeight small- where muslim women can feel they are not under the eyes of intruders ?

So do you feel any need to black out the windows of your home to stop prying eyes? Is there any evidence at all that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) made his wives or the Muslm women live this way?

I'd not hold my breath for whatever the OIC say/do not say. They are not an authority in my book.

So who in your book is an authority on what is Islamic?

I fully appreciate your sentements. However, -although I disagree with the taliban on many things- I don't think this justifies dropping 1/2 ton bombs on them & on their women. If a father was short on money and decided to get his son married rather than sending his daughter to the college then this is not exactly a crime theat deserves capital punishment.

Nothing justifies dropping bombs on people, I am in no way attempting to defend the west or their actions. I am simply trying to understand where people stand on the issues of the taliban and theor oppressive treatment of women.

There is a big difference between a father making a decision based on economic factors and a law that forbids women from education, no matter how much money you have.

I accept it was a war torn country and they had many issues to deal with however you also do not mention the hospital situation. Was it lack of resources that made them allow women to only visit one of the hospitals in Kabul (the one with no running water or medical equipment)? What do you believe is their reasoning behind not allowing women medical treatment unless they have the permission of their husband or father?

Numerous hospitals in Kabul had good doctors and medical equipment. Can you provide any evidence that it is better for a woman to die than to be in the same building with strange men or be treated be a male doctor if no female doctor is available?

Of course that leaves us with a problem, if women are banned from education then in a few short years there would be absolutely no female doctors, so who would treat sick women?

Salaam aleykum[/QUOTE]
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
I am sorry but to me it is just hypocracy. To introduce a law that bans women from education and then circumvent that law by using you rmoney to send your daughter outside the country simply suggests hypocracy. If it is a law you agree with (which he must have, as he helped to introduce it) then why did he not abide by this law?

But then you have to ask why did they ban women's education dont you? what if the situation in pakistan was appropriate?

I take your point that it may look like hypocrisy but in actuality it might have been a point of practicality rather principle. I dont think you can judge his position without actually knowing how things were around him.

let me restate my position:

1. I'm not convinced that taliban banned women's education as there are anecdotal reports to the contrary.
2. "education" in a country like afghanistan is likely to be largely based on mosques / shiekhs (what is known as "kottab" or writers). Was that banned as well? I doubt it ...
3. Accepting it was banned, then why? it maybe that they did not have enough school places, the right segregation environment, roads security (what do you think the safety situation would have been like in a country that produce 80% of the world's poppy?), the correct syllabus ... etc. and yes, there is such a thing as harmful education.

I'm not saying they were right. They had a balance to make as there is absolutely nothing in Islam to ban women's from education. Governments do this all the time.

So do you feel any need to black out the windows of your home to stop prying eyes? Is there any evidence at all that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) made his wives or the Muslm women live this way?

I know that the chamber of his wife (Aisha RAA) had a curtain to the door leading to the mosque.

Muslim women have a mindset where modesty becomes just natural. This rather reminds me of a time when my dad wants to open a window in our home and my mother objects because "she wants to feel comfortable". Now that taliban is out of power, do you think afghani women has thrown away their cloths? ... I doubt it.

So who in your book is an authority on what is Islamic?

Quran/Sunnah and ruligs of respectable scholars are ... politicians DEFINITLY not. I dont think that any one can say they were not muslims. They had their mistakes but were they muslims ? absolutely yes.

Nothing justifies dropping bombs on people, I am in no way attempting to defend the west or their actions. I am simply trying to understand where people stand on the issues of the taliban and theor oppressive treatment of women.

People will naturally root for the underdog especially within their own faith. I guess we will agree that the taliban have already paid quite heavily for any mistakes they made and in a grossly dispropotionate manner. I think that the taliban treatment of women is rather similar to the WMD issue -just a smoke screen for a different agenda-, except that people were more prepared to believe it.

I accept it was a war torn country and they had many issues to deal with however you also do not mention the hospital situation. Was it lack of resources that made them allow women to only visit one of the hospitals in Kabul (the one with no running water or medical equipment)? What do you believe is their reasoning behind not allowing women medical treatment unless they have the permission of their husband or father?

Numerous hospitals in Kabul had good doctors and medical equipment. Can you provide any evidence that it is better for a woman to die than to be in the same building with strange men or be treated be a male doctor if no female doctor is available?

Of course that leaves us with a problem, if women are banned from education then in a few short years there would be absolutely no female doctors, so who would treat sick women?

Dear sister I'm hearing all this for the first time. If you have a very negative view about the taliban then I dont really blame you if you believe in all this except I'd urge you to check your sources. All the points you made are sound.

Taliban -seen as the enemy- will never be presented in a balanced way in the current environment. Imagine the type of propaganda the red indians got during the time of colonisation of north America. I'd compare the current situation to that time. Say anything about the taliban and people will believe it as they are known to be inhuman aliens with necklaces of women's ears on their chests and their mouths have ugly brown teeth with dried children's blood on it ... every one knows that ... :angryred:

Cant remember who said that truth is the first victim of war ... always true I suppose. I invite you to read the words of Mr Quilliam, a British muslim convert in the 19th century.

An American explodes a bomb in the crowded streets of Constantinople and slays innocent women and children and , because he calls himself a Christian he is extolled in England as a hero and as a patriot! An Afghan fights for his fatherland in the Khyber Pass, and because he is a Muslim he is denounced as a traitor and a rebel, and his land is to be raided and his wives and children slain. Such is the British Christian logic at the end of the 19th Century in the diamond jubilee year of the reign of the Queen Empress.

Nothing changes !! :angryred:

http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=139
 

MOSABJA

Junior Member
Well this talk is never going to end as there are people who love Taliban but there are others who hate them bitterly(thanks to the western media).
Allah knows the best and time will tell whether Taliban are good or bad.

But I think that they are not against education of women it was just lack of resources .Eg an organization by the name of Ummah Tanzeem e no(reconstruction of Ummah) was formed by Dr israr Ahmed(famous religious scholar of Pakistan) two nuclear scientist of Pakistan,few retired army officers,industrialist the aim of that organization was to construct a paper mill in Afghanistan,make an Islamic course,give health care facilities,construction of roads and so on .

Taliban gave approval for all of that which shows there support for education,welfare.MEDIA DEPICTS IS NONSENSE as taliban is there enemy.
You should watch a thread recently posted by a brother "A french journalists expose lies of western media '
Plus read book by yvonne Ridley "In the hands of Taliban."
 
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