Bombs Explode In Delhi killing at least 18

[hellbraker]

Here is a news from India. You will not find it in the western media like on CNN or BBC television etc. If it is then it will be on some 10th page or something. Please read:


150-year-old church set on fire in India
Friday, September 19, 2008

JABALPUR: An angry mob set a 150-year-old church on fire during a series of violence continue in India here on Thursday.

This incident, occurred in a city of Madhya Pradesh, was a result of conflicts between the Hindus and the Christians in various areas of India.

A number of churches in Orissa and Karnataka were attacked over the weekend,

Indian Christians held protest rallies against setting the churches on fire and demanded from the government to take stern action against the culprits.

In the Hindu-Christian violence, continued for the last one month, 16 people have been died and several wounded. Most of them were the Christians.

Now if this was happening in Pakistan then it would be among the headlines... Why is this double standard?
Because Muslim countries are under attack by the west, therefore it would reported as headlines, discussed with pudits, lots of hoopla etc etc. Since India is a Hindu country and right now is being groomed to be a partner in the assault on Muslim countries so no reporting is done.

But here is the thing: They plan and Allah plan and Allah is the best of planner.

I learned about this in BBC,but that was a week or two ago.

 

[mali1]

lol brother you clearly did NOT read my post...simply copying and pasting is extremely easy but writing false remarks about what you perceive someone to be saying is something entirely different. And as for your remark about praying for me...JazakAllah Khair I appreciate it and i ASSURE you, that ALL of the members of TTI WILL be praying for YOU and your way of thinking as well.

Instead of posting your so-called proofs maybe you'd be kind enough to go back and show me exactly WHERE I justified a wrong with a wrong. Not ONCE did I say that such behavior was CORRECT. Murdering innocents is HARAM regardless of who does it. What I did was shed light on why some might BELIEVE that it's correct and if you interpreted that as my saying that it WAS CORRECT then brother I dont think i will EVER STOP praying for YOU.

I honestly have no idea why you think that Kashmiris in INDIAN OCCUPIED Kashmir are happy. If what you say is true then I can't argue with that but being able to vote is the farthest thing from being happy especially when you're occupied by a regime that insists on holding you captive and not giving you the independence you rightly deserve. And the so-called "Pakistani-held Kashmir" that you speak of? They actually side with AND ENCOURAGE the occurrence of a PLEBISCITE. Remember that? The very thing that India REFUSES to do because doing so would mean that they would have to look into just how atrocious their policies are regarding innocent Kashmiris. Oh and you can insult Pakistan all you like but they're not the ones with PIG SOLDIERS telling innocent Kashmiris that they're "mujahideen" just so they can be allowed access into their houses and as soon as they get it they go and RAPE their young daughters. Yeah I'm sure you get alot of sleep at night supporting a nation that allows THAT in so-called DEMOCRATIC Indian Kashmir. Pakistan may have sold itself to the American public but no one claimed it was perfect. India on the other hand does not have to sell itself, it's the way it naturally is to align itself against Muslims.

If it's a game you're trying to play with all your links then I can play too.

Thousands demand freedom in Kashmir
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\09\20\story_20-9-2008_pg7_1
An excerpt: A general strike has been called for today (Saturday). At least 45 people have died in the recent violence, most of them killed when soldiers opened fire on protesters. Anti-India sentiments run deep in Indian-held Kashmir, where most people favour independence from India, or a merger with Pakistan.

Indian Terrorist in Kashmir (note that the poster IS a Kashmiri)
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42718&highlight=Kashmir
Yeah sounds like they just LOVE India.

Kashmir Boiling
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37094&highlight=Kashmir
Thousands of people marched in the streets of Srinagar waving the flags of Pakistan. Sounds like they really love living under a dictator don't they?

Released Militants Narrate Torture Tales
http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=2318
The speakers said that India has institutionalized torture and the Interrogation centers may be better called as “Torture Chambers”. WOW, sounds FUN, don't you think?

Oh and my "personal favorite" that shows just how LOVING India is to it's Kashmiri denizens:

"I Was Forced To Drink My Own Urine"
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=23_3_2008&ItemID=34&cat=1

The "democracy" of Indian-held Kashmir quite takes my breath away.

I have more links if you'd like them.

And if you were looking for a smart response, I think you JUST got it.

Ok Sister.. A confession first... I had responded to ur comments in pretty tough words and then offered my Asr prayers. After my prayers, I am changing the comments as I realise that we may have difference of opinion but in reality we are Muslims and I must respect you and ur opinion. I hope that you have not read my original text.

I can post articles too about the atrocities of the terrorists in Kashmir but only time will tell who is right. I can't but notice the political/economic gains that India is making while Pakistan is busy in being a US ally or in its own internal conflicts (read muslim kill muslim).

Did you not say "Those to whom evil is done, learn to do evil in return." Honestly, you can't blame them and I certainly don't"? In my opinion, thats justifying one wrong with another.

I agree though that India is not perfect and it has its weaknesses where incidents such as Gujrat riots occur. However, India at the same time is the worlds largest democracy with no comparison with multiple languages, customs, dialiects, etc. Despite all our "weaknesses", India has done considerably well in being a secular state. I look around all muslim nations and realise that they are either fighting amongst themselves or are in turmoil.

One more thing - Ur article about thousands of people marching with the Pakistani flag does not prove anything. Isn't that an act of treachery/betrayal to your country? If I remember correctly, the punishment of apostacy (conversion from Islam to another religion) is death. If we go by the same logic, then you know what the Indian Givernment should have done... but it didn't.

Indian Government has much to learn and I agree that there is some discrimation for muslims in India (although I guess I am one of those lucky fews who have never faced it). However, at the same time, muslims have the largest percentage of illiterates. The ones who do get a good education prefer to get into business rather than the public/private companies. Majority of these are mediocre (or less) in their ranks/grades and then blame 'discrimiation' when they can't find jobs. THe good thing is that this trend is changing slowly and muslims are now acquiring technical degrees/jobs.

Wasalam

 

[ShahnazZ]

Ok Sister.. A confession first... I had responded to ur comments in pretty tough words and then offered my Asr prayers. After my prayers, I am changing the comments as I realise that we may have difference of opinion but in reality we are Muslims and I must respect you and ur opinion. I hope that you have not read my original text.

I can post articles too about the atrocities of the terrorists in Kashmir but only time will tell who is right. I can't but notice the political/economic gains that India is making while Pakistan is busy in being a US ally or in its own internal conflicts (read muslim kill muslim).

If you're admitting that you were brash in your response to me AS WELL as invalid then I accept your explanation. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me how many political gains India is making as Pakistan crashes and burns. India has always been the "dominant" power and being one of America's best friends as a "democratic" ally will always help it to further its own gains. Pakistan on the other hand is a fairly young nation with corrupt people in its government so you can't really compare their political situations. No one ever said it was the perfect example of an Islamic state. We acknowledge that right now they are the most imperfect example of what a Muslim country should be like. But NEVER will I accept that India is BETTER than them in ANY way. Yes, they may be stable right now but like I said you're comparing a long-existing nation to one that is fairly recent. Youngsters have to be able to stand on their own two feet first before they can learn to actually walk and India's been walking for quite awhile now. Pakistan on the other hand is displaying that it still very much has training wheels on but inshAllah it will be able to walk without them soon enough.

Did you not say "Those to whom evil is done, learn to do evil in return." Honestly, you can't blame them and I certainly don't"? In my opinion, thats justifying one wrong with another.

Lol brother I have no idea how else to explain this to you. The saying implies that this is what happens when people are wronged against and victimized and that I, as a HUMAN BEING, understand why it is so easy to react that way. But WHERE did I write that it is CORRECT? I'm saying that those that are wronged learn to wrong others as well and human nature dictates that this is a popular path that people turn to and one that is easy for them as well. It does NOT say ANYWHERE that I think it's RIGHT, just because it's EASY.

I agree though that India is not perfect and it has its weaknesses where incidents such as Gujrat riots occur. However, India at the same time is the worlds largest democracy with no comparison with multiple languages, customs, dialiects, etc. Despite all our "weaknesses", India has done considerably well in being a secular state. I look around all muslim nations and realise that they are either fighting amongst themselves or are in turmoil.

Yes we know India is incomparable in all of its glory. However you just stated that it is a SECULAR state and you're comparing it to the MUSLIM countries that are fighting amongst themselves. Brother, the reason it's so successful is BECAUSE it's a SECULAR state. It's not mixing politics with religion (or so they say) and that is why there is no CLASH. However countries that call themselves Islamic countries have to do their best to adopt a way of life based on Islam and Shariah and although NONE of them have managed to do that they are intermixing both religion and politics and although I have NO problem with this, I DO have a problem with them intermixing the two when they have TAINTED information on Islam. In other words, corruption and greed fuels government officials more than Islam does and this is why you have so many problems existing in many Muslim governments today. Because they do all these things under the name of being a Muslim government. I'm sure that if it were to exist in a secular country they would be "normal" occurrences but because this is happening in Islamic countries, the status of those countries as Islamic countries is more evaluated and analyzed. If I'm not clear enough let me know.

One more thing - Ur article about thousands of people marching with the Pakistani flag does not prove anything. Isn't that an act of treachery/betrayal to your country? If I remember correctly, the punishment of apostacy (conversion from Islam to another religion) is death. If we go by the same logic, then you know what the Indian Givernment should have done... but it didn't.

Uh yes it does. You basically stated that Pakistan is hated by Kashmiris and that they prefer India over Pakistan, which based on all the information I've read is invalid. This proved that Kashmiris IN INDIA preferred Pakistan over India. Brother, you bring up nationalism vs apostacy. How is one thing related to the other? Yes as an apostate you are under the ruling of being killed but where does apostacy come into effect, when you're talking about nationalism? This analogy makes NO SENSE. You're basically saying that citizes who are not nationalistic deserve to be killed according to Islam? The Muslims did not convert to any other religion and the Indians could care less if they did so why exactly should they be punished? I'm not getting your point.

 

[xSharingan01x]

:salam2:
I'm not sure how one can imply that Kashmiris prefer "India" over anything. I'm assuming you're not familiar with the history of Kashmir or the origins of violence in there. Kashmiris would prefer indepence or merger with Pakistan than India, just look up any polls that were taken in Kashmir.

Comparing apostasy with the loyalty to the state does not make sense. Religion and state is not the same thing, first and foremost a Muslim's loyalty is to the religion not the state (according to Islam, nowadays you have "secular Muslims" who believes otherwise).
State fluctuate, government changes, or the system of government may also change. One can go on and on about all the fluctuating variables that is present in a state, whereas Islam is constant and free of such fluctuations (Although its followers are not).

Also such logic negates the very idea of 'independence'. Brother Mali, if you were to believe that then I'm not sure how you can support the independent state of India, because those who fought for the independence in fact committed treason against the British, and thus should be killed.
I'm not implying you believe that, however under your analogy it would have been justified for the British to kill all Indians who opposed them.
We all know how the British used to call them "terrorist"

This is what happens when some colonial powers determine borders of countries with their pen. Everyone looses.


Sister Shahnaz, I whole heatedly agree with you about having semi religious state structure in Muslim countries.
These countries (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc etc... and you can go down the list of most Muslim countries) pick and choose to somewhat enfornce a few aspect of Islamic laws to give itself religious legitimacy, when in reality all the political laws and power are derived from Secular systems.
When a country does this, it is bound to be in chaos.
They install a corrupt version of 'secular democracy' or in same cases plain tyranny and ignore the Sharia. Even when they mix the Sharia and secular laws, they do it in such a corrupt way that you're bound to get nothing but chaos and evil. *sighs*

It is not a huge coincidence that most of the Muslim countries have political instability or corrupt institutions. They should just govern according to the Sharia, and if they are hypocrites and cannot do so then it is better to actually follow Democratic political process instead of having lil' bit form here and lil' bit from there.