characteristics of God

[Oem Soufiane]

Here are a few verses i know out of my head, wich show that Jesus pbuh was sent, and not God in a human body.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Jesus himself said there would be another prophet to fulfill the believe of his Lord, the one and only almighty God/Allah

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will set up a prophet for them from among their brethren, just as you are. I will place My word in his mouth, and he will declare to them all that I command him. 18:19 If any person does not listen to the word that he declares in My name, I will punish [that person].

now if you say that this is about jesus pbuh, than it's strange because the verse says prophet, if it is not Jesus, who else do you think this is?


If you don't mind this is the last thing I will say about this, because indeed, we already discussed this so many times.

 

[Delta]

If you don't mind this is the last thing I will say about this, because indeed, we already discussed this so many times.

Not only here, everywhere

But as you Brother said

"Also i have to say, that we muslims will never be convinced by bibletexts, because we know the bible has been corrupted in rewriting rweriting rewritng."

So you are in contradiction, Just if you are trying to prove the Holy Koran or the Prophet with a Disney Book

Trying to prove The Truth with a Lie, which is irrational.

That verses didn't existed, was Pope JP II that made that revision in this century

 

[American Muslim]

Wow, this thread has really led to some discussion! I am nowhere near a scholar. I do however have a degree in Philosophy. I would just like to share some of my experiences with this. In american universities (probably in european ones too) the people attracted to these studies want to learn things that others cannot. I know it sounds weird, but they are mainly seekers of ultimate knowledge at first. Many of the professors are products of the hippie culture of the sixties. You know, question everything because everything you have ever learned is wrong. This includes belief in Allah.

I don't think this course of study was bad per se, but I mainly thought deep thoughts of being unemployed after graduation!

The basis of philosophy is logic. Logic is a written/spoken form of mathematics. Many universities allow a study of logic instead of a math course. The purpose of logic is to make your argument, or proof, unassailable. Also, to find the flaws in someone else's proof, exploit them, and destroy the false proof. So, this field of study is excellent for a future lawyer or barrister. Questioning everything. Once again, this extends to all subjects including Allah. Allah cannot be proved by the tools of creation, as He is the Creator, not the created. These very tools themselves are flawed in ways we do not understand.

Stephen Hawkings, noting the reasons for a unified field theory, said, 'There is a fundamental flaw in the Newtonian model of physics. This is shown in the breakdown of known physical laws in the matter of cosmic string theory. Flaws are also apparent in applications of chaos theory, which is used everyday in a variety of forms. (my own example, the scanner that reads bar codes at stores) We are capable of using these principles, even though WE DO NOT TRULY UNDERSTAND THEM. (emphasis added)'

I brought that up just to show a modern example of the limits of Philosophy. For a more classical example, I will turn to Shakespear:
'There are more things in Heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophies, Horatio.'

In your studies of philosophy, have you learned of the Sophists? Sophistry? Ask your prof. As for his sophomoric questions concerning reality,I believe he is trying to shake up your beliefs in an attempt to get you thinking logically.
Finish your studies. I too spent four years prostrate to the higher mind. Got my paper and I was free.

In all my years of study I really only learned two things. There is a God. And I am not Him.

 

[Oem Soufiane]

Not only here, everywhere

But as you Brother said

"Also i have to say, that we muslims will never be convinced by bibletexts, because we know the bible has been corrupted in rewriting rweriting rewritng."

So you are in contradiction, Just if you are trying to prove the Holy Koran or the Prophet with a Disney Book

Trying to prove The Truth with a Lie, which is irrational.

That verses didn't existed, was Pope JP II that made that revision in this century

No I wanted to share with you what is in the bible you believe in. This was exactly what i was trying to say.

It's one thing or the other, so if you say jesus is God and another verse sais, that that is not true...????????????. And also about deuteronomy (you meant that verse right? ) how can you know what is real and what's not? I think a holy book must be perfect,and clear of misconceptions. What i was trying to say here is that the bible is not perfect, and how can something be sacret when it contains mistakes and corruptions.

That is what we know, you said it yourself. Than how can you believe in a religion based on this book.

I am a woman btw:blackhijab:

 

[Oem Soufiane]

That verses didn't existed, was Pope JP II that made that revision in this century

I am sorry but I don't believe this, because why would the pope make the bibleverse like this, so it seems as if his own religion, well the christian religion is not the right path. No offense, but don't you think this is strange?

 

[Delta]

That is what we know, you said it yourself. Than how can you believe in a religion based on this book.

Do you know the word "irony" ? of course JP didn't made what I said. What I said to you is that you can't take one single verse from the Bible in order to justify Islam religion. Is only a matter of principles of reason, i.e., justify A Truth with a Lie....that's impossible

The logic used is that any verse that contradicts the Koran is fabricated. But hence the entire Bible doesn't match the Koran, the only way of justification is by "fabrication"

Also the Talmud and Torah are rejected in the same logic, fabricated also

But as you said well, this type of discussion is very old between muslims and christians. Is a little tiresome and useless discussion, is a personal matter between you and God and your beliefs

www.imanway.com you can find discussions about that

 

[Oem Soufiane]

Do you know the word "irony" ? of course JP didn't made what I said. What I said to you is that you can't take one single verse from the Bible in order to justify Islam religion. Is only a matter of principles of reason, i.e., justify A Truth with a Lie....that's impossible

The logic used is that any verse that contradicts the Koran is fabricated. But hence the entire Bible doesn't match the Koran, the only way of justification is by "fabrication"

Also the Talmud and Torah are rejected in the same logic, fabricated also

But as you said well, this type of discussion is very old between muslims and christians. Is a little tiresome and useless discussion, is a personal matter between you and God and your beliefs

www.imanway.com you can find discussions about that

First of all, do not get all happy about dissing me, I didn't know if you were serious, because I heard a lot of silly things from people defending their own believes. Don't act like I am stupid.

Second, this is not the only verse, I told you these are the verses I knew immediatly, If I dive into the bible I can get a lot more of verses like this, especially about the fact that there is one God and Jesus was a messenger.

 

[Oem Soufiane]

And what is it now according to you or your bible, is there one God, or is jesus God,

this is what i meant by it's one way or the other there are a whole bunch of verses telling you that Jesus was sent by God. And other corrupted verses tell you that jesus is God, so, still the contradiction...

you said the whole bible contradicts the quran, but did you ever read the quran? because i read both of them and I can say I understand the bible more now i know the quran, there is no contradiction between bible and koran when it comes to the message in it, only christians interprate it in your own way. wich is explained in our quran.

The quran tell us: tell the people of the book: don't say three (trinity) Did you know that nowhere in the bible is the word bible, bible comes from the word biblio wich means book, and the psalms werent even called bible in that time.

 

[Delta]

=====
First of all, do not get all happy about dissing me...
=====

Why are you saying that ?

 

[Oem Soufiane]

because you said: do you know the word irony?

I thought we were having a serious conversation, and you said this to me, that kind of made me angry, something i shouldn't have to be. I didn't like the tone but now I see you didn't meant to diss me like I thought you were, sorry for the inconvenience , Language problems..:shymuslima1: