Christmas

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NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
:wasalam:
Assalam.

First of all, I would like to put that the writing was not of my own reasearch, but I felt it held some valid points.

I believe the same (that it held valid points) and I know it wasn't your own research.

if XMAS was good, then Islam would have had it!!!

True, but Islam doesn't mention anything about sports in the Qur'an (I don't think). Does that mean sports are evil? No. It just means that sports weren't important enough for Allah to put in His Holy Book (the Qur'an).

I am A MUSLIM. I don't want to be selfish, I don't want too many material things. I want my heart to keep Islam inside and leave the materialistic things that naturally tie me to this dunya outside.

Same here, but not too many people think like that. Would it not be counted as a good deed if we give gifts to others? Or maybe even pay extra alms around this time?

I am all up for friendly relations and sharing, but what does it feel like to go to a mall and see a fake dressed up man with kids on his lap, with the child reciting a long list of "I WANTS" What does it feel like to go back to my country and see a girl walk up to your car, with a poor sick baby in hand begging for money. What does it feel like when you watch a bent old man hobbling down a road, clothes tattered, eyes weary of watching the world? What does it feel like seeing poverty... and then seeing the AMERICAN XMAS!!!

Welcome to America: The most greedy country in the world. Unfortunatly, this is how people are brought up here. I won't lie: I used to always tell my mother "I want this and that" without caring for anyone living in Darfur or Israel, where one day without death is a blessing from God, or in Iraq where you have a foreign power tearing up your country, or in Bangladesh where you have to give bribes o succeed in the world.

I am not trying to be rude but I dislike Xmas very much so.

Many people do. But it doesn't mean it's unlawful. However, when I think of Xmas, the first thing that comes to mind is "presents" from which come some person/kid's demands. That's not right.

People swarm to markets in the theme of giving, while many times in their mind plotting how to get their parents or siblings to get them what they want. I realize that yes... other charity organizations from christians go out at this time... but ohhhh it just makes my sooooo sad... after Xmas, the customer service lines are clogged. People come return gifts they don't like and exchange them, their houses are conjusted with past gifts, unused, thrown away, some children begin to lose appreciation for things, they set expectations and if they aren't met, they get angry.

So true. However, we shouldn't blame the children; we should blame anyone who spoiled the child. If my mother kept giving me a horse every Christmas, and then the next Christmas I get a remote-controlled car, I would be angry because I was spoiled.

I'd like to introduce them to their brothers, the brothers without a shirt to wear, the brothers who will love you if you give them so much as a smile or a hug, the sisters who don't need makeup to be beautiful, the sisters who work all day taking care of their siblings now orphaned, the babies who die without a taste of life... why indulge in such things?

Ameen. It's a sad fact, but kids in my school don't know what's happening in Israel or even what Darfur is. Greedy people need to undergo a major education program to see what's happening outside Europe/North America.

No offence meant to anyone at all...

None taken. My point wasn't that we should celebrate Christmas, but rather it isn't unlawful (from what I know, but my knowledge is limited).

Wassalam.

:wasalam:
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
Opression

I am your friend bro. Anyone who teases you isn't a very good representation of christianity. However, it should be noted that kids make fun of those who are different from what they know. I got made fun of for long hair, other for their acne, others for their weight. It sucks you have a tuff time with your peers. I'm sorry about that bro.

I'll tell you what I really face. My teacher is a freakin retart. He keeps on saying "Muslims are dying out there for Alla." (Notice instead of Allah, like how you and I would say it, like in the Quran, kafirs say Al- A.) And he means by suicide bombs.
Retart.
Even when we had to write a crapped down letter to ther military to say "thank you" (yeah right), and I explained killing people out there is haram.:SMILY209: That spitting slimeball. lol :jumpclap:
Kids said that Islam is gay, but they are. Like this black Special Ed kid who looks like a frog (a toad actually) for the fact that he has ashy warts and pimpless on his face and forehead. Everyone in the class hates him except for the munafiq. He said I'm gay because I refer muslims as brothers. I do Namaz at school. I do it on the floor outside in a private place. I want to use enough money for islamic affairs. Like books, or referances.
I saw this cool traveling Jynomoaz.
It has a compass (to help you face the qiblah)
and on the back, it looks like a traveling case that you could fold the Jynomoaz and zip it.
Cool, huh? I want to buy it the next time I go to the store.
Make dua for me bro to stand victorous and all the other mujahid muslims.
 

Tahar

Junior Member
I'll tell you what I really face. My teacher is a freakin retart. He keeps on saying "Muslims are dying out there for Alla." (Notice instead of Allah, like how you and I would say it, like in the Quran, kafirs say Al- A.) And he means by suicide bombs.
Retart.
Even when we had to write a crapped down letter to ther military to say "thank you" (yeah right), and I explained killing people out there is haram.:SMILY209: That spitting slimeball. lol :jumpclap:
Kids said that Islam is gay, but they are. Like this black Special Ed kid who looks like a frog (a toad actually) for the fact that he has ashy warts and pimpless on his face and forehead. Everyone in the class hates him except for the munafiq. He said I'm gay because I refer muslims as brothers. I do Namaz at school. I do it on the floor outside in a private place. I want to use enough money for islamic affairs. Like books, or referances.
I saw this cool traveling Jynomoaz.
It has a compass (to help you face the qiblah)
and on the back, it looks like a traveling case that you could fold the Jynomoaz and zip it.
Cool, huh? I want to buy it the next time I go to the store.
Make dua for me bro to stand victorous and all the other mujahid muslims.

Your teacher has no right to belittle your religion. If he persists in his behavior, you have to let your parents know and they should bring it to the attention of the school's principle. With that in mind, don't let these people shake your confidence. You are a Muslim, on the right path, and inheritor to the greatest civilization ever. See, our civilization, helped nurture the western world out of the dark-ages, wasn't built on the might of the sword but on ideas and reason. The best way for you to be "victorious" over your classmates is to be the best behaved, well-organized, and the smartest student in class. Without forgetting to be compassionate and kind even toward those who are nasty to you. Be a true Muslim. And don't worry about them. One day, they will realize they are wrong.
 

searching soul

New Member
As a Christian, I shouldn't partake in anything that encourages others to paganism either. However, I help my family of athiests and agnostics decorating their houses every year, because I know there is no part of them that is worshiping the decorations or believing them to have mystical powers. They'd find the idea ridiculous. Even if they did, the modern paganism practised by some here, tracing back to the origins of the winter celebrations, no longer involves bestiality or sacrificing children in boiling couldrons as it may have done when either of our holy texts were written, so personally I wouldn't think it much worse than them subscribing to most other religions. I would imagine that in America too, much more religious than Britain, as commercialised as it is in both countries, Xmas parties are not by definition, pagan, though I can imagine other problems for Muslims attending them. Even modern pagans don't believe in the old yuletide traditions as anything other than a kind of culturally necessary bit of fun, to my knowledge.

I suppose I'm backing up NewMuslim's points.

Don't know if this is getting off topic, but about the spoiled Americans issue. I don't think teaching them about others' poverty would solve the problem. It's deeper than that. If spoiledness correlated with amount of material possessions, all royalty would be growing up to be the most demanding, self-absorbed and unhappy of all. That's not the case from what I can tell. Many royal children seem well-balanced and content. It's never added up for me that you can spoil someone by giving them 'too much'. How much is too much? The answer is usually highly subjective, based on personal experience of what is a 'normal' level of wealth. The least arbitrary definition I can think of is 'more than is necessary for optimum physical health and mental stimulation'. Actually, if you measure it this way, many people the West considers to live in poverty are actually better off than most Americans, who spend their childhoods having their brains poisoned by chemicals in loaves of bread. The West's shallow understanding of wealth means that the older generations complain about how they grew up on farms with no supermarkets, TVs, and few clothes. My view is that they had better diets and developed imaginations, which are massive assets for dealing with life. No one needs more than one set of clothes. No one needs a TV. We feel that these things make us happy because we're given that message all our lives. From the media, yes, but also our media-raised elders. Working such long hours, parents come to see appeasing their distressed offspring with material gifts and promises as a handy quick-fix. Parents in the West don't tend to give their children good philosophies for dealing with unhappiness anymore. They just want to solve the immediate problem and move on, not recognising underlying issues, like the way children view happiness. TV tells them it's something you get from this action figure... no that bicycle... no this better action figure...yet a new toy every week. I know no belief could make me feel less secure. No wonder they measure their parents' love by how much money they're prepared to spend on them. Then they hit the teen years, and maturity makes them start to learn about and consider all the problems in the world. Having always been sheltered from such things and given no advice on how to deal with things like existential angst, it's very easy for them to slip into cynical disillusionment. I've witnessed this with several friends.

Compare these children to those in monetarily poor Buddhist communities. Their drug and suicide rates only seem to rise when they're exposed to Western culture, with all its supposed luxuries. Buddhists are taught that happiness comes from within and that searching in the material world creates only depression. The Abrahamic religions also suggest this, but perhaps not so overtly. If I ever raise children, I will ensure that they are aware of how lucky they are in many respects, when they are able to comprehend and deal with concepts like famine without being desensitised, but also that their dissatisfaction with their environment and the world at large will help neither them nor those they pity. I hope that they will quickly realise how fulfilling it is to know you are living your life in a way that most benefits others and pleases God, and that they'll be equipt with enough philosophical prompts and interest to reject the negative underlying principles of Western society.

Steering this post back on topic, I think the true spirit of Christmas is just another victim of unchecked capitalism. There's nothing intrinsically more shallow about the idea of Christmas than any other religious celebration, but Western businesses saw the potential in something already celebrated by most of the population and involving the exchange of gifts and whipped it up into something purely hedonistic.
 

ibn azem

Super Moderator
Staff member
As a Christian, I shouldn't partake in anything that encourages others to paganism either. However, I help my family of athiests and agnostics decorating their houses every year, because I know there is no part of them that is worshiping the decorations or believing them to have mystical powers. They'd find the idea ridiculous. Even if they did, the modern paganism practised by some here, tracing back to the origins of the winter celebrations, no longer involves bestiality or sacrificing children in boiling couldrons as it may have done when either of our holy texts were written, so personally I wouldn't think it much worse than them subscribing to most other religions. I would imagine that in America too, much more religious than Britain, as commercialised as it is in both countries, Xmas parties are not by definition, pagan, though I can imagine other problems for Muslims attending them. Even modern pagans don't believe in the old yuletide traditions as anything other than a kind of culturally necessary bit of fun, to my knowledge.

I suppose I'm backing up NewMuslim's points.

Don't know if this is getting off topic, but about the spoiled Americans issue. I don't think teaching them about others' poverty would solve the problem. It's deeper than that. If spoiledness correlated with amount of material possessions, all royalty would be growing up to be the most demanding, self-absorbed and unhappy of all. That's not the case from what I can tell. Many royal children seem well-balanced and content. It's never added up for me that you can spoil someone by giving them 'too much'. How much is too much? The answer is usually highly subjective, based on personal experience of what is a 'normal' level of wealth. The least arbitrary definition I can think of is 'more than is necessary for optimum physical health and mental stimulation'. Actually, if you measure it this way, many people the West considers to live in poverty are actually better off than most Americans, who spend their childhoods having their brains poisoned by chemicals in loaves of bread. The West's shallow understanding of wealth means that the older generations complain about how they grew up on farms with no supermarkets, TVs, and few clothes. My view is that they had better diets and developed imaginations, which are massive assets for dealing with life. No one needs more than one set of clothes. No one needs a TV. We feel that these things make us happy because we're given that message all our lives. From the media, yes, but also our media-raised elders. Working such long hours, parents come to see appeasing their distressed offspring with material gifts and promises as a handy quick-fix. Parents in the West don't tend to give their children good philosophies for dealing with unhappiness anymore. They just want to solve the immediate problem and move on, not recognising underlying issues, like the way children view happiness. TV tells them it's something you get from this action figure... no that bicycle... no this better action figure...yet a new toy every week. I know no belief could make me feel less secure. No wonder they measure their parents' love by how much money they're prepared to spend on them. Then they hit the teen years, and maturity makes them start to learn about and consider all the problems in the world. Having always been sheltered from such things and given no advice on how to deal with things like existential angst, it's very easy for them to slip into cynical disillusionment. I've witnessed this with several friends.

Compare these children to those in monetarily poor Buddhist communities. Their drug and suicide rates only seem to rise when they're exposed to Western culture, with all its supposed luxuries. Buddhists are taught that happiness comes from within and that searching in the material world creates only depression. The Abrahamic religions also suggest this, but perhaps not so overtly. If I ever raise children, I will ensure that they are aware of how lucky they are in many respects, when they are able to comprehend and deal with concepts like famine without being desensitised, but also that their dissatisfaction with their environment and the world at large will help neither them nor those they pity. I hope that they will quickly realise how fulfilling it is to know you are living your life in a way that most benefits others and pleases God, and that they'll be equipt with enough philosophical prompts and interest to reject the negative underlying principles of Western society.

Steering this post back on topic, I think the true spirit of Christmas is just another victim of unchecked capitalism. There's nothing intrinsically more shallow about the idea of Christmas than any other religious celebration, but Western businesses saw the potential in something already celebrated by most of the population and involving the exchange of gifts and whipped it up into something purely hedonistic.

You put it very well searching soul! I like your approach towards these things.
Unfortunately so many things you say are quite true, especially about the media controling the mass of today!
 

Muslim-

Junior Member
Steering this post back on topic, I think the true spirit of Christmas is just another victim of unchecked capitalism. There's nothing intrinsically more shallow about the idea of Christmas than any other religious celebration, but Western businesses saw the potential in something already celebrated by most of the population and involving the exchange of gifts and whipped it up into something purely hedonistic.


Very well said. When companies see money, they will do anything to grab that money!
 

mohammad javid

New Member
With the minimal knowledge I do know about Islam right now I am not sure what to think about Christmas anymore and what to do in the future when I become Muslim. Your advice is most appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Assalamu ALakium sister,
First of all, iam overjoyed you are considering reverting to Islam.
The date of christmas on December 25 does not appear until AD334 when in a Roman calender the Nativity of the Lord replaces the pagan feast of the Unvanquished sun.
Before the 4th century, the birth of Jesus was celebrated on january 6 [Epiphany], or April 21 or May 20. CLearly, the Bible predicted and forbade the decoration of [ Christmas] trees in Jeremiah 10:2-5: HE says,
"Do not follow the ways of other nations; do not be disturbed by unusual sights in the sky,even though other nations are terrified. 3: The religion of these people is worthless. A tree is cut down in the forest; it is carved by the tools of the woodcarver, 4: and decorated with silver and gold. It is fastened down with nails to keep it from falling over. 5: Such idols are like scarecrows in a field of melons; they cannot speak; they have to be carried because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them: they can cause you no harm, and they can do you no good."
Furthermore, if you research the season that Jesus was born, you will out that he was not born in the winter, but in the autumn when the dates are fresh from the tree. The Bible also confirm when Jesus was born in Luke 2:8: There were some shepherds spending the night in the fields,taking care of their flocks.
So sister, do inform us if you revert to Islam, you have no reason to celebrate christmas now or when you become muslim. If we only knew Jesus birthday we muslims would not hesitate to celebrate.
:salah:
 

mohammad javid

New Member
With the minimal knowledge I do know about Islam right now I am not sure what to think about Christmas anymore and what to do in the future when I become Muslim. Your advice is most appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Assalamu ALakium sister,
First of all, iam overjoyed you are considering reverting to Islam.
The date of christmas on December 25 does not appear until AD334 when in a Roman calender the Nativity of the Lord replaces the pagan feast of the Unvanquished sun.
Before the 4th century, the birth of Jesus was celebrated on january 6 [Epiphany], or April 21 or May 20. CLearly, the Bible predicted and forbade the decoration of [ Christmas] trees in Jeremiah 10:2-5: HE says,
"Do not follow the ways of other nations; do not be disturbed by unusual sights in the sky,even though other nations are terrified. 3: The religion of these people is worthless. A tree is cut down in the forest; it is carved by the tools of the woodcarver, 4: and decorated with silver and gold. It is fastened down with nails to keep it from falling over. 5: Such idols are like scarecrows in a field of melons; they cannot speak; they have to be carried because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them: they can cause you no harm, and they can do you no good."
Furthermore, if you research the season that Jesus was born, you will find out that he was not born in the winter, but in the autumn when the dates are fresh from the tree. The Bible also confirm when Jesus was born in Luke 2:8: There were some shepherds spending the night in the fields,taking care of their flocks.
So sister, do inform us if you revert to Islam, you have no reason to celebrate christmas now or when you become muslim. If we only knew Jesus birthday we muslims would not hesitate to celebrate.
:salah:
 

Garnet_Stone

New Member
Do people even know Christmas anymore?

Assalamu Alaikum

First of all, let me just say that I know some people who celebrate Christmas don't even know what it is. LOL For example, I have cousins who were raised Buddhists (their mother, who is my aunt, converted from Christianity to Buddhism...quite a stretch if you ask me). They celebrate it to the fullest, probably more so than my Christian family. One Christmas, they invited us over their house, and one of my cousins asked me, "So, Christmas, that was when Jesus was born or something right?" I couldn't believe it. LOL Here's a family who are not Christians, who celebrate it more than my Christian family, and yet they don't even know what it is. lol Unbelievable.

In terms of Christmas being too commercializes, yes, I completely agree. When you say Christmas, most people only think about presents and things like that. I think that's very unfortunate. One of the things that attracted me to start studying Islam is the Muslims approach to keeping with traditions. I came from a Christian family and a lot of my friends are Christians, I would be the first to say that many Christians compromise their faith too much. Another example, I have a friend who preaches a lot about Christianity (he's a Baptist). He leads a youth group, they give Sunday classes, he always preaches....YET, he lives with his fiance and openly talks about their pre-marital sex! Christianity, just like Islam, strongly prohibits pre-marital sex. Yet very few Christians actually follows this. I know that last one was a bit off topic, but it just shows how people nowadays don't understand their own faith.
 

searching soul

New Member
CLearly, the Bible predicted and forbade the decoration of [ Christmas] trees in Jeremiah 10:2-5: HE says,
"Do not follow the ways of other nations; do not be disturbed by unusual sights in the sky,even though other nations are terrified. 3: The religion of these people is worthless. A tree is cut down in the forest; it is carved by the tools of the woodcarver, 4: and decorated with silver and gold. It is fastened down with nails to keep it from falling over. 5: Such idols are like scarecrows in a field of melons; they cannot speak; they have to be carried because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them: they can cause you no harm, and they can do you no good."
The tree is no longer religious, though I agree it is strange that it survived as a tradition when it's the only one specifically decredited in the Bible. I can imagine how Christians would have adopted a secular version of it to indicate respect for their pagan neighbours' culture, as they had reassurance that it had no real significance or power. Or perhaps it's simply that few Christians at that time could actually read the Bible at all...
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
...Or perhaps it's simply that few Christians at that time could actually read the Bible at all...

:salam2:
Just like to add my comment in about that sentence. Back then, your common Christian couldn't read the Bible. Only people who spoke Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew could read it. Those few people translated it and passed it onto the Clergy who then (after the book was translated in their language, I think Latin) read it to the common Christian.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
:salam2:
Just like to add my comment in about that sentence. Back then, your common Christian couldn't read the Bible. Only people who spoke Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew could read it. Those few people translated it and passed it onto the Clergy who then (after the book was translated in their language, I think Latin) read it to the common Christian.

Assalamu alaykum,

I saw an interesting documentary yesterday how the Christians argued over what to leave in the Bible. The New testament today only consists of what the more powerful Roman Christians wanted. All the texts, many books that were meant to be part of the bible that the Christians in Egypt and other countries were burned by order of the Pope.

Apparently, they pick and choose the bible because it has too many contradictions and they needed something that looked Ok. They have no idea who wrote the Bible, it was not any of the people ascribed. For example, Mathew, John and Luke did not write the Bible. It had many many pagan themes in the Bible. They got rid of the bit where it said there were two Gods, one good and one evil. :p and also they got rid of the bits that said women could be in Church.

I guess they kept and added on to the pagan notions of their being a trinity, and they try very hard to legitimise that

Wasalam.
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
Salam - one thing that most people didn't bring up but that was brought up to me when I reverted. Many, many Americans get Christmas as a holiday (all schools are closed usually) so even if you don't spend the holiday as "Christmas", it is a good opportunity to spend time with your family since most people have this time to do so. I mean, I am a teacher and I have 23 days of winter holiday this year. So I am traveling to be with my family - what to do? I will be staying with them the entire time - they will have a tree, lights, gifts, Christmas music, cookies (yummy cookies!), although they don't go to church. The closest thing my family does these days that is religious for Christmas is have a Nativity scene set out (which, by the way, I was NEVER allowed to touch as a child! LOL!). My mom is a school librarian so she will have time off as well.

So, I ask you - when I come from nearly half-way around the world, and my extended family gathers for Christmas, am I supposed to shut myself in my room to avoid "celebrating" Christmas? I guess I will need to ask for forgiveness because I can't do that to my family.

Lana
 

Abdurrahman89

New Member
Oh, yeah. Christains aren't our friends. The Christains that I's like are religous ones. I get oppressed at school because I preach Islam. The other muslim munafiqs (hypocrites) in the class laugh at how the Christains oppress me. One sec they act like my friends, the other sec they attack me.
I told the Christain kids that I only fight back at people who slander Islam. for the other muslims in the class, 1/6 are my friends. I get humilaited but I don't care. Inshallah Islam will stand victorious.[/QUOTE]

Don't be worried that they dont like you...Instead show them the good character that our prophet (PBUH) has taught us....Prophet has taught us to treat somebody's evil's acts with good acts by ourself..so don't judge our fellow Muslims as Munafiqs..Instead let's try our best to bring them to the True Guidance..Only Allah knows the contents of their hearts..Allah has promised victory for us Muslims..So keep up the good work and continue ur da'wah with good character that our Prophet has taught us...:arabi1:
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
Assalamu alaykum,

I saw an interesting documentary yesterday how the Christians argued over what to leave in the Bible. The New testament today only consists of what the more powerful Roman Christians wanted. All the texts, many books that were meant to be part of the bible that the Christians in Egypt and other countries were burned by order of the Pope.

Apparently, they pick and choose the bible because it has too many contradictions and they needed something that looked Ok. They have no idea who wrote the Bible, it was not any of the people ascribed. For example, Mathew, John and Luke did not write the Bible. It had many many pagan themes in the Bible. They got rid of the bit where it said there were two Gods, one good and one evil. :p and also they got rid of the bits that said women could be in Church.

I guess they kept and added on to the pagan notions of their being a trinity, and they try very hard to legitimise that

Wasalam.


:wasalam:
So true. I was reading an NIV Bible this year (while I was a Christian) and read about the Gospels not being written by the supposed writers, but being "assigned" to them. Also, I've read online that the Gospels were written way past the actual life span of the Apostles. Not only was it written back around 60-90 A.D. (is that term appropriate for Muslims? A.D. I mean), but it was also way past the current life expectancy (not to mention that this was back when hygiene and health was horrible).

Anything that was actually valid (such as the Gosple of Barnabas and the Apocalypse of Peter (Apocalypse of Peter was written during Peter's life, for Peter lived until 64 A.D.) were considered "not true" and it was all judged by powerful Roman men (who are known to be corrupt).

Picking and choosing is called "Cafeteria Christianity". See if you can figure out why :D

I take it that the name of the documentary was "Banned from the Bible" on History Channel?
:wasalam:
 

mohammad javid

New Member
Salam - one thing that most people didn't bring up but that was brought up to me when I reverted. Many, many Americans get Christmas as a holiday (all schools are closed usually) so even if you don't spend the holiday as "Christmas", it is a good opportunity to spend time with your family since most people have this time to do so. I mean, I am a teacher and I have 23 days of winter holiday this year. So I am traveling to be with my family - what to do? I will be staying with them the entire time - they will have a tree, lights, gifts, Christmas music, cookies (yummy cookies!), although they don't go to church. The closest thing my family does these days that is religious for Christmas is have a Nativity scene set out (which, by the way, I was NEVER allowed to touch as a child! LOL!). My mom is a school librarian so she will have time off as well.

So, I ask you - when I come from nearly half-way around the world, and my extended family gathers for Christmas, am I supposed to shut myself in my room to avoid "celebrating" Christmas? I guess I will need to ask for forgiveness because I can't do that to my family.

Lana
:confused:
 

searching soul

New Member
:wasalam:
So true. I was reading an NIV Bible this year (while I was a Christian) and read about the Gospels not being written by the supposed writers, but being "assigned" to them. Also, I've read online that the Gospels were written way past the actual life span of the Apostles. Not only was it written back around 60-90 A.D. (is that term appropriate for Muslims? A.D. I mean), but it was also way past the current life expectancy (not to mention that this was back when hygiene and health was horrible).

Anything that was actually valid (such as the Gosple of Barnabas and the Apocalypse of Peter (Apocalypse of Peter was written during Peter's life, for Peter lived until 64 A.D.) were considered "not true" and it was all judged by powerful Roman men (who are known to be corrupt).
Written years afterwards, yet all in agreement. It wasn't expected back then that the writers of such scripts would always give their real names. It was commonplace to sign things with the names of real apostles. It wasn't necessarily intended to be deceitful. Who do you believe about the choosing of the books? Also online, I've read that the books not chosen had authors just too far removed from the actual time and place of the events. How would we know what was in them if they were burned, by the way? It doesn't change the fact that the books we have left are considered by some scholars to contain no real contradictions on closer inspection.

This discussion looks off-topic, folks. I recommend we take it somewhere more appropriate if it continues. :eek:
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
Written years afterwards, yet all in agreement. It wasn't expected back then that the writers of such scripts would always give their real names. It was commonplace to sign things with the names of real apostles. It wasn't necessarily intended to be deceitful. Who do you believe about the choosing of the books? Also online, I've read that the books not chosen had authors just too far removed from the actual time and place of the events. How would we know what was in them if they were burned, by the way? It doesn't change the fact that the books we have left are considered by some scholars to contain no real contradictions on closer inspection.

Yep, true, we should make a thread about this. But just one more comment:

Not all of the books not chosen were burned, such as the Apocalypse of Peter and the Gospel of Barnabas (which say that Jesus didn't die on the cross and mentions the Shahadah, respectively).

Looking at this from a secular-historian point of view, Constantine and a group of Romans put together the Bible and the "Nicea Creed". This was called the "Council of Nicea".

Also, the Gospel of John (seen by many Christians as the best of them) has some contradictions upon which Matthew, Luke, and Mark all agree with. And all of the Gospels contradict each other, from major things to minor things (minor such as what Jesus said when he died).

Look at this site for some of them:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.html

The Apocalypse of Peter was wirtten before 64 A.D., the death date of Peter. The Gospel of Barnabas was written (as some believe) by Paul's close companion, Barnabas. Meanwhile, the Gospels were all written in 2nd Century A.D., very far from the average lifespan today not to mention back 2,000 years ago when not washing the hands was thought to be healthy.

When it comes to not signing your real name to what you wrote: It isn't a real issue nowadays who wrote books (like Ghostwriters using Tom Clancy's name in books that seem to be written by Tom Clancy). But when it comes to the Gospels, it's a MAJOR issue. If the Apostles didn't write it, then how would they know how Jesus lived His life? I can't write an accurate biography/sayings/teachings of a man 100+ years after his death!

Let's continue the rest in another topic named whatever you want to call it.
:wasalam:
 

ibn azem

Super Moderator
Staff member
:salam2:

I think too the discussion is gone a bit off the topic.

If you wish you can start a new one.

May Allah (swt) guide all those who seek His guidance.

Thank you all for your contribute.

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