Curious Christian

[OmarTheFrench]

I pray for you sister, I'm a revert and I passed by the same interrogations.

May Allah will guide you.

 

[Ladybug3478]

Thanks for the verse!

So, I'm now going to look up who the Canaanites were and still trying to come to a conclusion on the lost sheep of Israel - do you know the answer?

 

[OmarTheFrench]

Canaanites were the principales tribes, living in Canaan land ,before the arrival of Hebrews(jews).

 

[Basicofislam]

Salam. Well according to my understanding. Every prophet came to his people for that time. Muhammad S.A.W came for all mankind. He is the last and the seal of the prophets. Yes we do believe in the virgin birth and his healing powers. But that does not make him God Astaghfirullah. God also choose to part the sea for moses and the mericles to soloman. Does that mean they are after God no. Each prophet was given something special by God so all are special to God.So they are the chosen ones. Allah gave the prophet muhammad the Quran. It is a book of knowledge in Gods words. It was not written by any human. So it is very special. In it are things which he told the earlier prophets plus more. The Gospel was written 150 yrs after Jesus S.A was taken body and soul to heaven. So there are lots of mistakes.If jesus SA would have conducted the writing of the Gospel and said this is the word of God and his final word i would believe the gospel. But Gospel was not even written by the followeres of jesus AS. And so you will find lots of mistakes in the gospel cause of human error and politics of that time.

 

[BGfromGB]

The missing books?

Yes the injil, as well as the Torah have both been lost through time and change.

This is what interests me. Especially the part when you said were "lost through time". Are you saying that these books were gradually lost? Can you provide references or documents to this effect. I would dearly love to see how for all these years I have been taught and have been reading the corruptness of the scriptures? Maybe you are correct. But I need to verify this.

because the original message of the injil and torah has been lost

. Are you absolutely sure of this?

 

[IbnAlAawam]

This is what interests me. Especially the part when you said were "lost through time". Are you saying that these books were gradually lost? Can you provide references or documents to this effect. I would dearly love to see how for all these years I have been taught and have been reading the corruptness of the scriptures? Maybe you are correct. But I need to verify this.
. Are you absolutely sure of this?

Hi,
In what condition were the Israelite taken to Babylon into slavery? Were they allowed to bring their scrolls with them?
What happened to the temples In Jerusalem during the attack and while the Israelites were in Exile?

Was it an Israelite tradition of the time to learn by heart the Old testament like Muslims are learning the quran today?

What we have today from the old testament is mainly a re-writing of the texts after the exile ended...

 

[BGfromGB]

Answers - prophet/messengers received books from God. The idea here is that they all received their books the same way as Muhammad is supposed to have received the Qur'an--by dictation from a heavenly original.

According to the Qur'an, Moses received a book called the Taurat, David a book called the Zabur, and Jesus a book called the Injil or Gospel.

Apart from the Injeel which Islam claims was lost, are these other books still in existence? I ask this question because i read in another post on this thread that these books were lost through a period of time. Having said that. If the Torah, the Zabur and the injeel were in fact lost, then can I safely assume that the Bible in its entirety was re written from scratch? I,m just trying to picture the events historically leading up to the corruptness of the Bible.

U need to read all the books first,then u read the quran,all the answers inside there.

Then it goes without saying.

Jesus predicting Muhammad-

I find this difficult to comprehend. How do we know this? The injeel was lost and then re-written as a corrupted version.

Most will go to the passages in John 14-16 concerning the Paraclete to try to prove that this really refers to Muhammad, not the Holy Spirit. The important thing for us to note is that Muslims believe that a major part of Jesus' ministry was to predict the coming of Muhammed.

John 14 - 16. Are these verses genuine and uncorrupted?

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello,

This is a good question...

One I have asked.

Wikipedia states the three views of the Injil. The view of Christians, Muslims, and ‘Others’. It’s the 'others' view that interest me at this point (see below)

Wikipedia's definition of how Muslims and 'Others' view the Injil.
Currently, Muslims believe the Gospel or the New Testament has been corrupted over time. However, according to some other views, the Injil is a lost book, different from the New Testament which was either written by the apostles or people connected to them.

Wikipedia’s definition of lost:
A lost work is a document or literary work produced some time in the past of which no surviving copies are known to exist

Two days after reading the quote from this thread - I heard from a Christian (non practicing) that Jesus wrote a book (no name) and it was destroyed because the 'powers that be' at that time didn't think we/ Christians could handle how Jesus referred to us.

Okay, so this can absolutely be an example of hearsay and I'm still researching. So, I'm waiting on a reply from someone who has studied Christianity and Islam for many years in his native tongue as well as in Arabic and Hebrew on any possible reference material that he may have.


So, this brings me to Matthew 15: 22-28 were Jesus stated “It is not meet to take the children’s bread and cast it to the dogs".

As for the corruption of the Gospels…
Would you consider the varying contradictions within the Gospel to be corruption?

Please note that the word Injil is new to me and I am not trying to answer you and, instead provide my search in hopes that it will be something that either of us - if not both can gain something.

Oh, what do you think about Jesus being sent only to the lost sheep of Israel? (Matthew 15: 22-28) and if that is at all in relation to the multitude of folks all over the world that worship/ give thanks to Jesus (Christians)?
Note: I just started researching the lost sheep/ tribe of Israel.

I see you have a good thinking mind. That is made obvious in the questions/ points you have made. So, if I have missed anything or misinterpreted – please, let me know.

Thanks

 

[mohammed07]

This is what interests me. Especially the part when you said were "lost through time". Are you saying that these books were gradually lost? Can you provide references or documents to this effect. I would dearly love to see how for all these years I have been taught and have been reading the corruptness of the scriptures? Maybe you are correct. But I need to verify this.
. Are you absolutely sure of this?

What is the scripture in which you believe, May I ask?

 

[OmarTheFrench]

Yes Jesus(SA) come for the Jew:

48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

Sura 3-48

You can now understand the answer of JESUS(SA) to that women.

Prophet Mohammed(SAW) is the Last of Prophet and he came to ALL THE MANKIND.


Matthew 10 5-6 confirm that too

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[IslamIsLight]

Hi there
I think this article will be helpfull for u also

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2432

 

[ibn azem]

Okay, so this can absolutely be an example of hearsay and I'm still researching. So, I'm waiting on a reply from someone who has studied Christianity and Islam for many years in his native tongue as well as in Arabic and Hebrew on any possible reference material that he may have.

Hi there

If you want answers from someone who studied the Old and new Testament and more you can see here the debates which will no doubt be the best source (I gave you this link before here it is again):

Debates

(See the "Video" section)

 

[BGfromGB]

The "lost" scriptures

What is the scripture in which you believe, May I ask?

There is only one scripture that I know of. You probably have it. The scriptures that I have are very closely related the the original manuscripts. yes there are concocted versions such as the book of mormon and the the new world translation (Jehovah's witness). Now if you ask me about the catholic Bible, then I cant answer that. You will have to ask them why they included extra books. But the rest of the translations are the same as mine and yours.

Now that I've answered your question, how about answering mine above?

 

[BrotherZak]

Brother Zak you talk about Matthew 15 22-28

Salam

Exactly, thanks for the reference. Most christians are baffled by this verse and cannot explain it without somehow admitting to the idea that Jesus came only for the jews.

 

[BGfromGB]

Matthew 15

Salam

Exactly, thanks for the reference. Most christians are baffled by this verse and cannot explain it without somehow admitting to the idea that Jesus came only for the jews.

No sir, I don't think so. And i don't believe that you're in a position to tell people that christians are baffled. According to islam, the Bible is corrupted and is therefore irrelevant. Based on that, muslims are least qualified to explain the meaning of those corrupt verses.

The only explanation you can offer to the christians is that those verses are meaningless because they have been corrupted. So how can you know that YESHUA (Jesus) came only for the Jews. Certainly not from the scriptures because they are corrupt.

But lets see what the Qur'an says about YESHUA.

When the baby YESHUA was taken to the temple to be dedicated, an elderly man took the Baby in his arms and proclaimed:

"For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of ALL people, alight for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel" Luke 2:30 - 32.

Now from this passage that Jesus' purpose was 2 fold. his mission was to reveal himself and YHWH to the Israelites. This is because he was born of the same lineage as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Now let's see qhat the Qur'an says about YESHUA in the same context.

Sura 38:46-46."And commenorate our servants Abraham Isaac and Jacob, possessors of power and vision. And verily we chose them for a special purpose, proclaiming the message for the hearafter. And sura 2:47. Children of Israel, call to mind the special favour I bestowed and that I preferred you to all the others.

During the passage of time, the children of Israel became sinful and ignorant to the things of God. Jesus thus needed to minister with them on a personall basis and performed miracles as a sign of the Messiah. Becaues of their sinfulness and disobedience, Yeshua instructed his deciples to go only to the Children of Israle. They were to hear the message first because they were also a part of God's covenant.

After yeshua's death a disciple spoke to the israelites "And you are heirs of the prophets and covenant God made with your fathers.......When God raised his servant (YESHUA). HE SENT HIM FIRST TO YOU to bless you and to turn from your wicked ways. Acts 3:25-26.


The second part of Jesus mission was particularly significant. He paid the penalty when he shed his blood on the cross FOR ALL NATIONS. This is borne out in :

Luke 24:46 -47.
Acts 1:8
Matthew 28:19.
John 8:12 and

finally in the Qur'an, "And we (wish) to appoint him (YESHUA) as a sign unto ALL MEN and a mercy for us. Sura 19:21.

So there you have it. Even if what the Bible says is irrelevant, then the purpose of YESHUA's mission can be found in the QUr'an.

 

[lions_den1]

Wrong debate

First of all we should not blindly trust a Christian to quote to us the word of Allah (Quran) considering that they could not keep thier own books from corruption- thus as muslims we should always double check the reference that anyone quotes to us- often (as in this case) people try to misquote verses in order to suit thier own arguments.

"She (Maryam) said "How can i have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am i unchaste?" (Surah Maryam 19:20)

Then Jibril responded saying "He said "So (it will be), your Lord said "This is easy for Me. And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us and it is a matter (already) decreed (by Allah) (Surah Maryam 19:21)

The argument here should not be about if Jesus (pbuh) was sent to the Jews or all of mankind, rather what he called for and his purpose.

So do not quote one verse and try take it out of context. Read the rest of the chapter and read how Allah (the Lord of Jesus and Muhammed) refutes the claim of the Christians.

Was Jesus sent by God to be worshipped or to call people to the worship of Allah Alone? Like all the other prophets from Adam to Moses? The Christians are people who speak from thier own conjuncture without proof or evidence. In fact they can't prove that Jesus is God, or that the bible is the actual words of God. They know and we know the bible was written by men (eg. According to Luke, According to Matthew ect)!!!

If the bible is the word of god why does it have contradictions in it and why is it corrupt? Is god unable to protect His Word from corruption of man?

God is Ever Living and can never die- but they claim thier god not only dies but was murdered and crucified!!! (For our sins they say!)

God is the Creator not created!! Yet they claim god was born thorugh a woman with out original sin ect

Who has more right to be the Son of god Jesus or Adam? Jesus had a human mother- while Adam was Created by Allah with His own Hands without a mother or father!!!

Allah is free from everything that they associate with Him.

 

[BGfromGB]

Welcome to tti family,hope u enjoy your stay.about your questions-

Most will go to the passages in John 14-16 concerning the Paraclete to try to prove that this really refers to Muhammad, not the Holy Spirit.

The question is. Is that verse authentic or not.

Jesus' ministry was to predict the coming of Muhammed. The important thing for us to note is that Muslims believe that a major part of

If the bible cannot be used because of its corruptness, then what other source does Islam use to confirm this belief?

 

[BrotherZak]

No sir, I don't think so. And i don't believe that you're in a position to tell people that christians are baffled. According to islam, the Bible is corrupted and is therefore irrelevant. Based on that, muslims are least qualified to explain the meaning of those corrupt verses.

The only explanation you can offer to the christians is that those verses are meaningless because they have been corrupted. So how can you know that YESHUA (Jesus) came only for the Jews. Certainly not from the scriptures because they are corrupt.

But lets see what the Qur'an says about YESHUA.

When the baby YESHUA was taken to the temple to be dedicated, an elderly man took the Baby in his arms and proclaimed:

"For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of ALL people, alight for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel" Luke 2:30 - 32.

Now from this passage that Jesus' purpose was 2 fold. his mission was to reveal himself and YHWH to the Israelites. This is because he was born of the same lineage as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Now let's see qhat the Qur'an says about YESHUA in the same context.

Sura 38:46-46."And commenorate our servants Abraham Isaac and Jacob, possessors of power and vision. And verily we chose them for a special purpose, proclaiming the message for the hearafter. And sura 2:47. Children of Israel, call to mind the special favour I bestowed and that I preferred you to all the others.

During the passage of time, the children of Israel became sinful and ignorant to the things of God. Jesus thus needed to minister with them on a personall basis and performed miracles as a sign of the Messiah. Becaues of their sinfulness and disobedience, Yeshua instructed his deciples to go only to the Children of Israle. They were to hear the message first because they were also a part of God's covenant.

After yeshua's death a disciple spoke to the israelites "And you are heirs of the prophets and covenant God made with your fathers.......When God raised his servant (YESHUA). HE SENT HIM FIRST TO YOU to bless you and to turn from your wicked ways. Acts 3:25-26.


The second part of Jesus mission was particularly significant. He paid the penalty when he shed his blood on the cross FOR ALL NATIONS. This is borne out in :

Luke 24:46 -47.
Acts 1:8
Matthew 28:19.
John 8:12 and

finally in the Qur'an, "And we (wish) to appoint him (YESHUA) as a sign unto ALL MEN and a mercy for us. Sura 19:21.

So there you have it. Even if what the Bible says is irrelevant, then the purpose of YESHUA's mission can be found in the QUr'an.

salam i'm not sure if you have read my comment or misunderstood it, but let my clarify what i said. First of all when i said they are baflled from a Christian perspective i simply meant for a christian the scripture are not corrupted and every letter is the word of God. Now this episode of Jesus life and his manner in the way he treats the woman who happens to be a gentile, it totally contradicts the notion that Jeuss has come for all. You mentioning Muslim plomics and the muslim perspective is totally irrelevant and useless in regards to my reference, of course, will all due respect.

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

The Gospel According to St. Matthew: Chapter 7

22:Many will say to me on that day (on Jesus' 2nd coming), "`Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name expelled demons, and in Thy name performed many mighty works?'

23:"And then I will tell them plainly, "`I never knew you: begone from me, you doers of wickedness.'

As Muslims everything we do is in the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful


wasalam​