Quran DCCI Ministries misusing Sura 9:31 at Speakers' Corner, London

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by OneOfTheGuys, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. OneOfTheGuys

    OneOfTheGuys Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    Hello everyone, Peace of the Lord be with you all. As you know I am a Non-Trinitarian Christian and I have had a Qur'an for 10 years now and I enjoy studying my Bible and Qur'an in context and the correct interpretation and do not believe in following the lies of deception and the wrong dubeous sources from political journal activists / Preachers with links to certain people such as : Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Sam Shamoun, David Wood, Geert Wilders, Tommy Robinson, Ergun Caner etc.. or even British Far-Right groups such as 'For Britain' & 'Britain First' who are just obsessed with the religion and make videos with no correct material.

    Anyway back to my point on DCCI who know Dr. Jay Smith. There has been a lot of violence down there between different groups and haven't had the time to go and have a civilised conversation. Daniel never seems to engage well in conversations and some times they take another person down there called 'Lizzie' who is very sharp with people when she is chatting to Muslims.

    I saw some recent videos of them after they had their account on YouTube suspended for nearly 3 weeks. One of the videos they have put up is called ' How many Lords? @ Speakers Corner l Hyde Park'

    You can see the video right here :

    Daniel from DCCI is claiming that Sura 9:31 on an A4 Paper in English & Arabic says Jesus Is God. It doesn't say that at all, I was thinking where did he get that information from? It is saying how people treated Monks, Rabbis and many others etc as authority... just like today take the words of their worship leaders and Orthodox Jews, Catholics and Protestants choose their views over God's Word and follow their traditions and interpretations, most people don't even take a Bible to church so they are going to be mislead.

    He also asked the guy in the video if he knew Arabic as he always accuses people of hiding behind a language when they don't even know it either, it is crazy.

    The Hadith says ....

    Narrated 'Adi bin Hatim:
    "I came to the Prophet (ﷺ) while I had a cross of gold around my neck. He said: 'O 'Adi! Remove this idol from yourself!' And I heard him reciting from Surah Bara'ah: They took their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah (9:31). He said: 'As for them, they did not worship them, but when they made something lawful for them, they considered it lawful, and when they made something unlawful for them, they considered it unlawful.'"

    What I agree with this is things that are made lawful that was originally unlawful such as consuming Pig meat, celebrating Halloween, Easter and Catholic traditions which had nothing to do with the prophets and Jesus.

    Hadith in Arabic

    حَدَّثَنَا الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ الْكُوفِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ السَّلاَمِ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، عَنْ غُطَيْفِ بْنِ أَعْيَنَ، عَنْ مُصْعَبِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ عَدِيِّ بْنِ حَاتِمٍ، قَالَ أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَفِي عُنُقِي صَلِيبٌ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ يَا عَدِيُّ اطْرَحْ عَنْكَ هَذَا الْوَثَنَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقْرَأُ فِي سُورَةِ بَرَاءَةََ ‏:‏ ‏(‏ اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ‏)‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَمَا إِنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَكُونُوا يَعْبُدُونَهُمْ وَلَكِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا إِذَا أَحَلُّوا لَهُمْ شَيْئًا اسْتَحَلُّوهُ وَإِذَا حَرَّمُوا عَلَيْهِمْ شَيْئًا حَرَّمُوهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ غَرِيبٌ لاَ نَعْرِفُهُ إِلاَّ مِنْ حَدِيثِ عَبْدِ السَّلاَمِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ ‏.‏ وَغُطَيْفُ بْنُ أَعْيَنَ لَيْسَ بِمَعْرُوفٍ فِي الْحَدِيثِ ‏.‏

    I am not an Arabic speaker so I copied the translation for you...

    This is why it is important to understand what the scriptures say rather than just forge interpretations out of thin air that doesn't even match the text.

    As a Christian I don't like people who will engage in heated discussions at Hyde Park without knowing something. When I have been down there I never bothered to engage in them because they can go on for hours and nobody agrees.

    Taking any scripture out of context whether it is the Bible, Qur'an, Hadith, Tafsir and other sources to cause division or to intimidate is offensive in God's eyes and offensive.

    Would be interested to see what you guys have to say on here...

    God Bless
  2. Abu Juwairiya

    Abu Juwairiya Junior Member

    Oct 23, 2013
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    Dear Brother.

    Thank you for your message. First may I apologise for the late message, I have only just seen it. I do not go on this forum that much any more and I usually post on the Brothers Section.

    Second, you are right, both the Qur'an and Ahadith do not say any where that Jesus or any one other than Allah is God.

    As you may know even when something is taken out of context, it can be challenged immediately by what is written about the same person, theme, object or circumstances elsewhere in the same scriptures where it is clear.

    Jesus is mentioned twenty five times in the Qur'an (and even more times in Ahadith). If Daniel wishes to say that the Qur'an proves that Jesus is God in one verse, then he will struggle to dispel that notion in all the other places where the Qur'an says he is less than God and is no more than servant of God. You cannot be God and at the same time be a servant of the same God- that is ridiculous. You are either God or you are not.

    If Daniel chooses the use the Qur'an and Ahadith as sources of his information, then the same scriptures can be used against him. That can be a great area of embarrassment for him.

    Jesus in Ahadith, it is written, for instance will return. We share that end times prophecy with Christians, but it is also reaches its point of convergence here. Many Christians seem to think that most of what they believe in about him about Judgement Day is exactly or almost identical with Islam and that is where we differ, since our similar beliefs beyond his second coming are as divergent as are the exact commonalities in goodness between God and the Devil.

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