Fasting on Ashura - apparently not a right Hadith

[a_stranger]

Hussain radia Allah anhu was on a journey he can drink and eat and Allah knows better ( Allah aalam).

 

[a_stranger]

Those who truly love Hussain radia Allah anhu should follow the Sunna of our prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam , because this what he has done, and has fight for.

 

[cabdixakim]

Asalaamualaikum brothers and sisters. I will be posting something very long now which I got from my friend's facebook wall. I wnat to know how many of you agree to this.

By all standards, the day Imam Hussain, the grandson of the beloved Prophet Muhammad (s), was killed was a great tragedy. Indeed, it was the greatest tragedy. He was martyred, along with his family members, simply because he stood against injustice. The family of Yazeed (the Banu Umayyah) and the family of Ziyad rejoiced the day he was killed. Not only did they celebrate the day of Ashura, but they turned it into a tradition for subsequent years. They would gather their family and friends and rejoice at the martyrdom of Imam Hussain.
While fasting is a great form of worship, we the Shia have valid reservations regarding the fast of Ashura. It is always recommended to fast, anytime throughout the year (except Eid), but the problem is that there is a history of politics behind the fast of Ashura.


Killing the very grandson of the Prophet (s) was a major crime, so Banu Umayya attempted to shift the focus of the people for the day of Ashura. Possessing power and money, they spread to the Muslims that Ashura is a blessed day. They did so by indoctrinating their people that on Ashura God saved Prophet Musa and his people from the pharaoh. He saved Prophet Ibrahim from the fire of Namrud, and so on. To thank God for that blessed day, they encouraged the people to fast on Ashura.


Here are several points that demonstrate how the hadeeths which speak of the fast of Ashura are fabricated. The Prophet (s) probably never said them, but they were forged after him.


First: There are several hadeeths in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi which tell us when the Prophet(s) arrived Medina, he saw the Jews fasting, Upon knowing the reason why they were fasting, he said we the Muslims are closer to Musa, so we should also fast. If you analyze these hadeeths, you will realize that they all go back to these four narrators who supposedly narrated them directly from the Prophet:


1- Ibn Abbas


2- Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari


3- Abu Huraira

4- Mu’awiya

The Prophet (s) came to Medina the first year of the Hijra. As for Ibn Abbas, he was born three years before Hijra, which makes him four years old when the Prophet (s) supposedly said this Hadith. In the Science of Hadith, the narration of a four-year-old boy is generally not accepted.


As for Abu Musa, he came from the tribe of Banu Ash’ar in Yemen. He became Muslim before the Hijra, but he was not seen in Medina till the battle of Khaybar in the seventh year after Hijra. The Prophet had sent him to Yemen to preach to his tribe. Hence, Abu Musa was not in Medina in the first year of Hijra, so how could he possibly narrate this hadith?

As for Abu Huraira, he also was not seen in Medina until after the battle of Khaybar in the seventh year of Hijra. He also came from Yemen.

As for Muawiya, the son of Abu Sufyan, he became Muslim in the eighth year of Hijra, so how could he narrate a hadith from the Prophet seven or eight years before he became Muslim?

Some of the hadeeth go back to Ibn Zubayr, who was also a young boy when the Prophet entered Medina.

Therefore, it is quite clear that all the narrators of this hadith were either not in Medina at the time, or they were young boys, so how can we possibly accept such a hadith? It is pretty convincing that the hadith was forged later on by Bani Umayya.


Second: Let’s look at the word “Ashura” which is mentioned in the hadith. According to Ibn Al-Atheer, there are two meanings to Ashura: an old meaning and a new meaning. The old meaning, which was during the Arab’s time and the Prophet’s time, meant the tenth day of any month. The new meaning surfaced after Imam Hussain was killed on the tenth of Muharram. After that, Ashura came to be known as the tenth of Muharram, but before that it was simply the tenth day of any month. So when the Prophet supposedly said this hadith, he just said Ashura, and he didn’t say the tenth day of which month. This demonstrates that the hadith was forged after the day of Ashura, and it slipped from the mind of the ones who forged it that before Ashura, the word had a different, more general meaning.


Third: Today, go to any Jew, even their scholars, and ask them: Do you have a fast on the day which God saved Moses, or a day which corresponds to the tenth of Muharram? They don’t, and they will tell you that even in the past they didn’t have such a fast. They fast on Yum Kippur, the day when Moses returned from Mt. Sinai and realized that his people were worshipping the calf. To expiate for their sin, they fasted, but they have no fast they day God saved them from the pharaoh. But the hadith in the books of Saheeh tells us that it was a tradition of the Jews, and they would all fast that day.


If you even look at the day the Jews fast, it never corresponded with the tenth of Muharram when the Prophet (s) came to Medina. It corresponded with Muharram on the 28th year after Hijra.


Fourth: It seems the one who forged the hadith was not aware of how the Islamic Calendar originated. During the time of Umar, since Muslims wanted a set date to refer to, he created the Hijri calendar by seeking the advice of Imam Ali. So they decided to make the starting point the migration of the Prophet, and they made the first month Muharram. However, the Prophet entered Medina in Rabi-ul-Awwal, not in Muharram, and so the one who probably forged the hadith assumed that the Prophet entered Medina in Muharram because that is when the calendar starts. So the hadith tells us the Prophet when he first entered Medina he saw the Jews fasting on Ashura, but the Prophet didn’t enter Medina in Muharram, he did so in Rabu-ul-Awwal, ten months before Muharram! There’s a clear discrepancy here.


Fifth: The prophet (s) knows more about the Shariah of previous Prophets such as Prophet Musa, and he doesn’t need the Jews to teach him that. The Prophet (s) is also higher than copying what the Jews would do.


Sixth: How come there is so much emphasis on the fast of Ashura around the world? Thousands of speeches are dedicated to it, millions of pamphlets are distributed encouraging people to fast on Ashura, and so on. There are many other days throughout the year which are highly recommended to fast, such as the 27th of Rajab, but how come you don’t see a single pamphlet or speech encouraging it? This shows that this is a political thing, originally designed to focus the attention away from the Martyrdom of Imam Hussain, and to consider it a blessed day. I don’t know how anyone can stand on the Day of Judgment before Prophet Muhammad and consider the very day his grandson was slaughtered a blessed day.


Banu Umayya were behind it, and considering it a blessed day is not an offence to us the Shia, but an offence to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family.


I got this all off a website..pretty interesting though!


All this is a shia viewpoint..bt authenticity of ahadith needs to be validated since a lot of em were fabricated after the Prophet's death


The propaganda and media machinery indoctrinate the population by emphasizing that the prophet entered Medina in the month of Muharram and thus he met the Jews on the 10th of Muharram. Let’s assume that this is valid as we analyze the Jewish and Islamic calendar.


Hence, for an assumption: Ashura= 10th of Muharram in 1st year of Hijra.

The Hadith relating to the fast of Ashura claims that the Jews fast on the day of the savior of prophet Moses and the children of Israel on the 10th of Tishri (Jewish calendar) and this corresponds to the 10th of Muharram (Islamic calendar). The hadith also claims that when the prophet (pbuh) acknowledged that the Jews were fasting on Ashura, he commanded the Muslims to fast on the 9th and 10th of Muharram.
Consequently, the existence of Judaism today further assists the recovery of truth. Ask the Jews whether they fast on the day that prophet Moses (pbuh) and the children of Israel were saved by the Almighty Allah. Ask them whether the day in which they fast corresponds to the 10th of Muharram. The answer is simply NO. The Jews have no such fast and it NEVER corresponded to the 10th of Muharram in the first year of Hijra. The only time the 10th of Tishri corresponded to the 10th of Muharram was in the 29th year after Hijra. Yet, the hadith claims that the prophet met the Jews in the first year of Hijra!

Moreover, the 10th of Tishri is not related to the savior of Moses and the children of Israel but rather the 10th of Tishri is the day the children of Israel paid atonement for worshipping the calf when Prophet Moses and some companions went to Mount Sinai. As a result of this incident, the Jews fast on the 10t of Tishri. However, the hadith relating to the fast of Ashura claims that the Jews were fasting on the 10th of Tishri due to the savior of Moses and the children of Israel! Rather, the savior of the children of Israel occurred on the 15th of Nissan in the Jewish calendar and the 15th of Nissan in the 1st year of Hijra correspponded to the 23rd of Ramadan. Hence, if there should be a fast which is recommended then it should have nothing to do with the 10th of Muharram but rather the 23rd of Ramadan.


When narrating the hadith relating to the fast of Ashura, were did this massive mistakes come from?

The mistake was as a result of the naivety of the hadith writer. Since the Islamic calendar begins with Muharram, the hadith writer wrote the hadith on the basis that the prophet entered Medina in Muharram. It is well known that the prophet reached Medina in Rabi al awal. This big mistake is due to a hadith writer that didn’t understand how the Islamic, Jewish and Arabic calendars work. The prophet entered Medina in Rabi al awal but the Islamic calendar began with Muharram due to the suggestion of Ali Ibn Abi Taleb (pbuh):


“The Islamic calendar will start just like the lunar calendar begins. It will start from the year of Hijra but the month of Muharram.”


When the prophet entered Medina, the hadith claims that he exclaimed: “I have a greater right on Moses than what they do. Therefore, my people will fast on Ashura in the same way they are fasting on Ashura”. But we now ask, O messenger of Allah! You entered Medina in Rabi Al Awal and not in Muharram. So, how were the Jews fasting? Instead Faq'aa is recommended.


I don't want to take much of your time dear Muslims, but atleast one answer from any of you will be very MUCH appreciated. JazakAllah khayrun

Wacaleykumas-salaam waraxmatul'Lahi wabarakatuh
of course I do not agree with this.

First the Banu ummayah are more closer to Hussein than the Shia who count their origin to Persia.

The argument of this thread sums that Ahadith that talk about Ashura are fabricated and that is what bothers us becouse as the Quran cannot be manipulated and altered so is the Hadith and there are no compilations of Hadith more authentic and reliable than those of the six compilers.

The thread looked for false disqualifications for Abu Musa,Abu Hureyra,Ibn A bbas,Zubeyr{radhial'Lahu canhum) but what does it say about the many other hadiths by Aisha(radhial'Lahu canha),Ibn cumar(radhial'Lahu canhuma).

Narrated Aisha:

Quraish used to fast on the day of 'Ashura' in the Pre-Islamic period, and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) too, used to fast on that day. When he came to Medina, he fasted on that day and ordered others to fast, too. Later when the fasting of the month of Ramadan was prescribed, he gave up fasting on the day of 'Ashura' and it became optional for one to fast on it or not.

Narrated: Aisha
Allah's Apostle ordered (the Muslims) to fast on the day of ashura, and when fasting in the month of Ramadan was prescribed, it became optional for one to fast on that day (ashura) or not.

Narrated: Ibn Umar
The Prophet observed the fast on the 10th of muharram (ashura), and ordered (Muslims) to fast on that day, but when the fasting of the month of Ramadan was prescribed, the fasting of the 'ashura' was abandoned. Abdullah did not use to fast on that day unless it coincided with his routine fasting by chance.

among others...

But the thread specifically focuses of the Hadith of Ibn Abbas(radhial'Lahu canhuma):

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) came to Medina and saw the Jews fasting on the day of Ashura. He asked them about that. They replied, "This is a good day, the day on which Allah rescued Bani Israel from their enemy. So, Moses fasted this day." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "We have more claim over Moses than you." So, the Prophet fasted on that day and ordered (the Muslims) to fast (on that day).

by saying Abn Abbas was a small boy the thread supposes the Hadith is fabricated even though it is in Sahiih Al-Bukhari,so was Ibn Abbas a small boy when he narrated the Hadith? let's look at it's isnad

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مَعْمَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَارِثِ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ
so this Hadith is narrated to Saciid bin Jubeyr who lived at the time of Hajaaj bin Yussuf by his father who was narrated by Ibn Abbas.
At the time of narration of this Hadith Ibn Abbas was an old man even though the event concerning this Hadith occurred when he was a small boy...
This Hadith has everything to be Authentic: reliable Isnad,Reliable matn in that it doesn't go against any other hadith or any established principle of Islam,it is marfuuc in that it involves actual words and actions done by the prophet(salal'Lahu caaleyhi wasla'lam) as narrated by a trustworthy companion.

what the thread confuses is time of narration of the hadith that since ibn Abbas was a small boy at that time of event he cannot be relied upon.The thread is ignorant that ibn Abbas recorded the event as it was an established fact and annually remembered and practiced and he later in his age transmitted it to be preserved...the same is the case of Abu Hureyra,Abu Musa and Zubeyr(radhial'Lahu canhum)

Simply: You cannot expect to find a fabricated Hadith in Sahiih Al-Bhukhari.

The thread also speculates that the Hadith indicates immediately the prophet(salal'Lahu caleyhi waslal'lam) entered Madinah he met the jews and so Ashura must have been some day in Rabiicul awal since that is the month of Hijra.But it fails to understand: even though the prophet(sal'Lahu caleyhi waslal'lam)entered madinah in Rabiicul awal he had other more important tasks to attend to than meeting the jews and as recorded in the seerah he was preoccupied in building of the mosque and uniting the muslims.
Whether Ashurah coincides with exact day in the jew's calender or not doesn't matter now in our time since they have manipulated and fluctuated their book and entire history to contradict with Islam.

Ashurah was an auspicious day for those who lived around the muslims at the time of the prophet(sal'Lahu caleyhi wasl'lam) and the Ahadith regarding it and its reward are authentic.Let us not be made doubt our authentic sources.

As for the Shias they are more biased than any other humans I suppose they mourn and commemorate the death day of a son and not that of his father...Their ways and innovated beliefs and principles have nothing to do with Islam.

Ashura is an auspicious day anyone who wants to fast an optional fast good for him anyone who can't but wants has the same as that who does,anyone who doesn't want to fast it is upto him and there is no harm for him in not fasting.

O Allah forgive me and all muslims...aamiin