Hajj Illegal Immigrants

bint S

Junior Member
:salam2:


IslamOnline.net & News Agencies





Up to 2.5 million Muslims performed hajj this year. (Reuters)

MAKKAH — As tens of thousands of Muslim pilgrims are readying themselves to return home after performing hajj, hundreds of illegal immigrants who entered the kingdom on hajj visas are staying behind, fading undetected into Saudi life.
"They come here and misuse our hospitality," Abdulaziz, a Saudi, told Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Saturday, December 22.

After each year's hajj, hundreds of people skip their return flights, in search of a better life in the oil-rich Gulf country.

They enter Saudi Arabia on a visa to perform hajj or `Umrah (lesser pilgrimage).

In most cases, the supposed pilgrims skip hajj altogether, never even showing up at the lodgings booked for them.

"It is even like lying to God," said Abdulaziz. "At the end of the day, it's our fault for providing them with a job."

"They engage in odd jobs like gardening, car washing, even shepherding out in the desert," added Fahad, another Saudi.

He said they get paid as little as 300 to 500 riyals (80 to 135 dollars) a month.

There is no official figures on the number of overstayers — known by Saudis as mutekhalifeen (lawbreakers) — each year.

But Saudi newspapers frequently run stories about the arrest of dozens of people, with some implicated in drug-running and other crimes.

According to an official report issued by the General Statistics Department, 2,454,325 pilgrims performed hajj this year.

This number includes 1,707,814 pilgrims who came from 181 countries and 746,511 from within the Kingdom.

A large number of overstaying Umra pilgrims also joined the hajj to further boost the final count.

Pilgrims held Friday, December 21, a mass farewell visit to the Ka`bah, ending hajj.

Most of the pilgrims earlier performed their third stoning of walls representing the devil and left the Mina area for Makkah . Those unable to leave by sunset were staying a third night in the area.

Forgotten Slum

In Makkah, what appeared to be a forgotten slum has emerged recently to accommodate hajj illegal immigrants.

These twilight zones are in narrow, litter-covered streets, with old flats and poorly stocked shops.

The dreams of a better life often come to an abrupt end when police raid on their dwellings.

Once detained, illegal immigrants are locked up until the paperwork is done for them to be sent home.

Saudi authorities have also tightened punishment on those employing illegal immigrants.

They can be fined tens of thousands of riyals, jailed or both.

"We will implement a new system that will intensify the punishment," Saudi interior minister Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz has said.

He warned Saudis not to employ or provide shelter or transportation for the illegal immigrants, adding that "the punishments are severe".

But people like Omar, an African who makes a living in Makkah by washing cars, are not deterred because they have no other option.

"Feeding my children and keeping them away from starvation is my aim," he said in front of his home in the Makkah slum.
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
I have mixed feelings about this ... KSA is a country and need Sovereignty to function ... but ...

Those people exist there because there are jobs for them to do. If the demand was not there, they would not have come.

I'd say make them legal if you catch them and force their employers to pay them properly. This way, the demand for illegal workers will diminish because it will not be financially rewarding anymore.

The counter-argument is that this will encourage even more illegal workers. In reality the demand will fade over time and gradually this will become less of a problem.

What does the panel think ?
 

bint S

Junior Member
:salam2:

i'm sorry i just think muslims should help other muslims and they should be legal instead of illegal. i know i knwo..then every body will flock there goes the arguement.. but is that realy likely?

i am for muslims.
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
i see and hear too many critisims of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran....

yes it is true that there are many problems that need to be addressed, but lets not satisfy the western media that wants divert the attention of the world and muslims from the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least, Saudi doens't kill the illegal immigrants and send them back home alive.

US millitary is killing the citizens of Iraq in their own country by the hunderds on daily basis.

So please dear muslim brothers and sisters, stop spreading these kind of news and don't give a helping hand to the imperial and racist western media.

Wassalam
 

bint S

Junior Member
i see and hear too many critisims of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran....

yes it is true that there are many problems that need to be addressed, but lets not satisfy the western media that wants divert the attention of the world and muslims from the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least, Saudi doens't kill the illegal immigrants and send them back home alive.

US millitary is killing the citizens of Iraq in their own country by the hunderds on daily basis.

So please dear muslim brothers and sisters, stop spreading these kind of news and don't give a helping hand to the imperial and racist western media.

Wassalam


i think we should focus and correct where we are going wrong rather than sweeping it under the carpet. but hey its just my opinion.
 

Ibn_hassan

Servant of Allah
I think the saudi government should help them and provide them with every necessary thing they need because the muslims are like one body if any part of the bopdy is suffering the rest of the body shares the pain with it. Am sorry to say the KSA is not helping the emigrants enough who have been forced to leave their countries by poverty or violence. while the western countires are providing everything to them. obviuosly I am not saying the west are better than the KSA or any muslim country because at the end of the day it is a muslim country where you can hear the adhan five times a day while your heart is not calm in the west as a muslim.
 

najbc

Junior Member
:salam2:

i'm sorry i just think muslims should help other muslims and they should be legal instead of illegal. i know i knwo..then every body will flock there goes the arguement.. but is that realy likely?

i am for muslims.

I do agree, we are Muslims and we should help each other. What is the big deal? Look at the united state now, they are not Muslim and they are bring immigrants from everywhere and religion. I swear if American was muslim country they will have went straight to heaven. They are really good at giving back and helping others that are poor than them. Which is more than I can say for my brothers and sisters? So, why are the Muslims country called their brothers and sisters who are looking for better life illegal. that is really mean, if they do not need jobs and food from you then leave alone, the ground becomes Allah and no on e else. we muslims are mean to each other, well some of us and some muslim countries. that is very sad!
 

TheKnowledgeSeeker

A Believer In Heart
Here is what i say about this ...Saudis government with every arabic government are all selfish, pathetic and fake Muslims. What i am surprise to see is the arbic government call themselve Muslim. They don't even know what the Qurran says about helping people in need or respect to those who are different from you. I think it is time to hand all arabic goverenments over to the Arabic sister to control because the brothers of these governments are afraid of the nonmuslm country, selfish,. Muslims over the around who live in unarabic countries have better being a refuge than they do in their so call islam goverements. Did you know that a muslim refuge in saudi have no citizenship even if they are born in the country? That only arabic countries i have faith in bring Islam back and fighting for Islam are Afags, Iraqs, and of course the Palestines who are prayer to Allah SWT to bless with peace. Another than that all the other arabic government could go to hell for all i care.
 

bint S

Junior Member
Here is what i say about this ...Saudis government with every arabic government are all selfish, pathetic and fake Muslims. What i am surprise to see is the arbic government call themselve Muslim. They don't even know what the Qurran says about helping people in need or respect to those who are different from you. I think it is time to hand all arabic goverenments over to the Arabic sister to control because the brothers of these governments are afraid of the nonmuslm country, selfish,. Muslims over the around who live in unarabic countries have better being a refuge than they do in their so call islam goverements. Did you know that a muslim refuge in saudi have no citizenship even if they are born in the country? That only arabic countries i have faith in bring Islam back and fighting for Islam are Afags, Iraqs, and of course the Palestines who are prayer to Allah SWT to bless with peace. Another than that all the other arabic government could go to hell for all i care.


u took the word right out of my mouth sis. although u'll find there're others who disagree..
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Folks lets slow down. First, the US does not bring immigrants from everywhere...please don't listen to FOX or CNN..where do you get your information...what about the Hispanic families that are being torn apart and mothers being deported to everywhere and children being sent to group homes??? Hello?
Second..stop attacking Muslims. Just stop it. Do something. Stop conflating politics with Muslims. They are exclusive..the media wishes you to think they are inclusive. What are you doing individually to assist any Muslims that are being oppressed? For that matter what are you doing to assist any oppressed person.
We have to wish for our brothers and sisters what we wish for ourselves. Let us start by cleansing our hearts. Let us start by visiting our next door neighbors, cleaning our masjids and making them alive again, and living a Muslim life first. Let us start by making a change within ten feet of ourselves.
Insha'Allah that will happen if each one of us visits and reclaims the masjids as the center of our lives and not our schools or places of business.
 

aisha-uk

Junior Member
well i think that if arabic countries took some ideas from EU, when it comes to immigration, then we wouldn't have so many arab immigrants here...
ie an EEA citizen can travel and settle down in any EU country, without having to apply for residence permit for the first 3 years..
If all arabic countries were united this would be a great system for them..
 

TheKnowledgeSeeker

A Believer In Heart
Salaam,

Folks lets slow down. First, the US does not bring immigrants from everywhere...please don't listen to FOX or CNN..where do you get your information...what about the Hispanic families that are being torn apart and mothers being deported to everywhere and children being sent to group homes??? Hello?
Second..stop attacking Muslims. Just stop it. Do something. Stop conflating politics with Muslims. They are exclusive..the media wishes you to think they are inclusive. What are you doing individually to assist any Muslims that are being oppressed? For that matter what are you doing to assist any oppressed person.
We have to wish for our brothers and sisters what we wish for ourselves. Let us start by cleansing our hearts. Let us start by visiting our next door neighbors, cleaning our masjids and making them alive again, and living a Muslim life first. Let us start by making a change within ten feet of ourselves.
Insha'Allah that will happen if each one of us visits and reclaims the masjids as the center of our lives and not our schools or places of business.

Assalam,

I agree and at the same time i don't. The US torns hispanic families because they have a country with governmnet. A country they must learn to clean so they can have better lives. They must educated themselves and stand up to their governments. The US is bringing Muslim people who don't have a country with government what are arabic government doing to them Muslim country? Let's be honest here, we shouldn't defened them because they are our muslims brothers and sisters? I love what i love for myself for my brothers and sisters in Islam. And i love includes peace, living in an atomsphere where i don't hear gun or see hunger people, free education to anyone who wants, medical help we needecd. where i could call my home. I love my Muslims sisters and brothers but i don't defended when i believe they are doing something wrong. Sister, if we don't attack our own sisters and brothers who is attack so they can better themselves? And for your questions what i am doing as individual to assist muslim who are being oppressed? What is there for me to do? i don't have a goverenment who i can tell them to help. The only i way i help is by giving donations to my mosques.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

The US has a very duplicitous policy. Do not trust them. The immigration policies are crazy. Besides, the Hispanic were here first.
As for Muslims and what can you do..you can be active with your hands. Join a neighborhood volunteer group, tutor a child, visit prisons, join a soup kitchen, help have a soup kitchen in the local masjid, write to congress, collect food and clothes for sending overseas....
just do it please..
campaign for Ron Paul , spread the truth, speak the truth, make sure you masjid is active both locally and globally.
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
Salam

How come no one has brought up the fact that the people coming for hajj and illegally staying - aren't they tainting their hajj when they basically lied from the start - applying to go (WITH A RETURN TICKET, which is required) with no intention of returning? I think that is just horrible!

Helping people is one thing, but people breaking the law in order to try to get help - that is just as wrong as not helping people. The sheer number of beggars there already are in Saudi (mostly of African descent), especially surrounding the Haram Mosque, is distressing enough. Saudi has rules for the legal entry for work and if people follow the rules, then I support them. But I don't support illegals flaunting the rules, no matter what country they are from or are trying to get into.

The people who want to stay in Saudi should apply and follow the rules set by the SAudi government. It IS the Saudi's country after all.

My humble opinion.

Lana
 

Abu Hannah

Slave of Allah
I too am for helping muslims anywhere and everywhere, but as stated in the last post, these people can't really expect the full support of the authorities because they are there illegally.

Saudi Arabia is faced with a lot of challenges today, including a war with the Houthi rebels on its southern border, and even unemployment among its own population. Hence, these are jobs that could potentially be done by Saudi Citizens.

9.8 percent Saudis are jobless, according to a report compiled last year by General Department for Statistics and Information at the Ministry of Economy and Planning.

The total number of unemployed Saudis stood at 437684, of which 239176 or 6.9 percent of total Saudi workforce were men and 177174 or 24.9 percent were women. The number of jobless expats stood at 21298 representing 0.40 percent of the total workforce in the Kingdom.

Official sources at the Ministry of Economy and Planning said that 78 percent of the jobless Saudi women were university graduates, while 76 percent of unemployed Saudi men were high school graduates.

Maybe short term temporary permits (3-6 months) could be allowed after Hajj to allow those expatriates who want to stay back in the Kingdom to work. They could be required to register and provide proof that they are gainfully employed during the time.
 

Mrmuslim

Smile you are @ TTI
Staff member
Salam Alikom

Brothers and Sisters, please be careful before accusing others with things we as Muslim ummah do it every day.. We have Pakistani Muslims who dont agrees with Arabs, and Indian Muslims who dont want go with Muslim from Bangladesh we see these kind of politics in our mosques every day. Beside no one has any right to say
pathetic and fake Muslims
you dont know what they have in their hearts. (Just to let you Know I grow up in Saudi)

There is a lot of Bias treatment there with non Sauid, we guess what that the same in U.S but they call them Aliens resident !! haha !!! they do it by the book, so its every where. Its worse in Europe

The amount of service they provide for pilgrims are a lot, not to mention how much the government and Saudi people help other poor Muslims countries yes they cant solve every single issue of ummah because its my and your duty.

Now, in today's situation if they allow any one who want to stay over, to stay and do what they want there wont be any rules or regulation. Accusing them of doing wrong is not the solution, they know these people are poor and that they need help, some time they end up stealing or committing crimes.

The point here is not defend Saudi Gov, but to remember that as we act our ruler will act as we do ..they are human among us, unless we change, the situation of the ummah wont change.

And remember the hadith of the prophet peace be up on him said ---Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, "If somebody sees his Muslim ruler doing something he disapproves of, he should be patient, for whoever becomes separate from the Muslim group even for a span and then dies, he will die as those who died in the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance (as rebellious sinners). (See Hadith No. 176 and 177)

If they allow any one to stay imagine how they will control the population, we as Muslim cant even stand in straight line during our prayer and we complain why we are not united... We need to change our self before start blaming others...
 

dunno

Junior Member
salam

i would like to shed some light on this issue, since i go to mekkah frequently.
Someone mentioned that if there was no demand there would be no supply
therefore, the illegals wouldn't stay. There might be a demand for people who are doing jobs with very very poor salary and that's what they are doing. Most of the times salaries aren't even enough for basic things. so they resort to crime stealing....etc really our safety is at risk. It's not that we dont like helping Muslims borthers i mean 3 months ago some expat i wont mention where he is from skinned a 4 years old saudi girl alive.......i mean really we wanna help Saudis and Saudi governement are responsible for 90% of the islamic spending. Please check your facts before accusing people of being fake muslims :astag:
 

Mrmuslim

Smile you are @ TTI
Staff member
salaam alikom

As sisters said we need to clean our heart first, and wish for everyone what we wish for our self.

Now, as what we can do!? Well we can do a lot, we don’t need a government, we don’t need to meet with any officials, ambassadors, president etc.

We can meet the King directly, no introductin will be needed, he knows you very well, even though we dont, he knows everything about us. We can meet directly with the Sovereign Lord, the King, the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. We can meet him every night, according to our time no appointment will be needed. We can talk to him and ask him directly, and say Oh Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. To whom all that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise, and he wont disappoint us if we approach and ask him this is guaranteed
[You have unlimited appointment time its up us, and unlimited bill introduction, requests, help ]

Meet with him every night and ask whatever we want and the good thing about all of this, that non of our requests will be rejected, and if we ask for our brothers and sisters we will get double reward in addition an angle with make dua for us... So imagine if a MALAK(ANGLE) Is making Dua for you what we will get ?

Now dont forget me and my family when you do this in your Dua's
 
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