help me better understand this from Prophet(PBUH) prayer described

pcozzy

Junior Member
:salam2:

This has been driving me crazy, everyone knows when the Imam is reciting we must be silent. But I find people next to me in prayer, very ignorant of that. So I want to clear up in my mind what is the right and wrong way.

I use Albany rihma Allah, Prophet prayer described to do my best to pray as the prophet(PBUH) taught. This is from his work:
http://abdurrahman.org/salah/prophetsprayer.html

The Abrogation Of Recitation Behind The Imaam In The Loud Prayer

He had given permission for those being led by the Imaam to recite Soorah al-Faatihah in the loud prayers, when once:

"he was praying Fajr and the recitation became difficult for him. When he finished, he said:

«Perhaps you recite behind your imaam.» We said: "Yes, quickly [139], O Messenger of Allaah." He said:

«Do not do so, except for [each of you reciting] the opening chapter of the Book, for the prayer is not valid of the one who does not recite it.»[140]

Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all, when:

"He finished a prayer in which he was reciting loudly (in one narration: it was the dawn prayer) and said:

«Were any of you reciting with me just now?!» A man said: "Yes, I was, O Messenger of Allaah". He said:

«I say, why am I contended with?» [Abu Hurayrah said:] So the people stopped reciting with the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) when he was reciting loudly after hearing that from him [but they recited to themselves quietly when the imaam was not reciting loudly]." [141]

He also made silence during the imaam's recitation part of the completeness of following the imaam, saying:

«The imaam is there to be followed, so when he says takbeer, say takbeer, and when he recites, be silent [142], just as he made listening to the imaam's recitation enough to not have to recite behind him, saying: He who has an imaam, then the recitation of the imaam is recitation for him»[143] - this applying in the loud prayers.


Now after reading this, I took it to state that between the pause of recitation of surah Fatihah and next Ayat, that the suhaba ra, would recite to themselves the fatihah quietly in the pause time only.

Am I understanding this correctly or should the last paragraph(in red) be enough?

Is it justified (as a must) by any of the madhabs?

:wasalam:
 

3aberSabyl

New Member
Assalam alaykum wa rahmatu Allah
Akhi fi Allah baraka allah fik you 're right when you said if the Imam is reciting we must be silent ,,,
Now after reading this, I took it to state that between the pause of recitation of surah Fatihah and next Ayat, that the suhaba ra, would recite to themselves the fatihah quietly in the pause time only.

Am I understanding this correctly or should the last paragraph(in red) be enough?

Is it justified (as a must) by any of the madhabs?
if we read well the hadith and what Sheikh al alabany rahimahu allah wrote we don't find that the suhaba radiya allah 3anhum would recite alfatiha in the pause that you wrote . let me explain well/
First at all it was permitted to receite after the immam in the loud prayers then as confused the prophet sallah allah alayh wassalam when at same time more than one receited the Quran,,,
he asked them not to receite loudly but alfatiha.
Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all
the answer is in :
Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all, when:

"He finished a prayer in which he was reciting loudly (in one narration: it was the dawn prayer) and said:

«Were any of you reciting with me just now?!» A man said: "Yes, I was, O Messenger of Allaah". He said:

«I say, why am I contended with?» [Abu Hurayrah said:] So the people stopped reciting with the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) when he was reciting loudly after hearing that from him [but they recited to themselves quietly when the imaam was not reciting loudly]." [141]

He also made silence during the imaam's recitation part of the completeness of following the imaam, saying:

«The imaam is there to be followed, so when he says takbeer, say takbeer, and when he recites, be silent [142], just as he made listening to the imaam's recitation enough to not have to recite behind him, saying: He who has an imaam, then the recitation of the imaam is recitation for him»[143] - this applying in the loud prayers.

so akhi ,the hadith (in red) is your answer bro , we should be silent when the Immam recites in the loud prayers.
hope i made things more clear for you.

PS:as i read the book in arabic and im not fluent in english could you tell me the meaning of (contented)?.
i advice you & all bro & sis who have this book to read the 'misconceptions cleared ' part .as it includs strong answeres for many questions about madahibs and what should follow ,,etc.
Jazakum allahu khayran
sorry if i did some mistakes in english !!
Assalam Alaykum
 

pcozzy

Junior Member
Assalam alaykum wa rahmatu Allah
Akhi fi Allah baraka allah fik you 're right when you said if the Imam is reciting we must be silent ,,,

if we read well the hadith and what Sheikh al alabany rahimahu allah wrote we don't find that the suhaba radiya allah 3anhum would recite alfatiha in the pause that you wrote . let me explain well/
First at all it was permitted to receite after the immam in the loud prayers then as confused the prophet sallah allah alayh wassalam when at same time more than one receited the Quran,,,
he asked them not to receite loudly but alfatiha.
Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all
the answer is in :


so akhi ,the hadith (in red) is your answer bro , we should be silent when the Immam recites in the loud prayers.
hope i made things more clear for you.

PS:as i read the book in arabic and im not fluent in english could you tell me the meaning of (contented)?.
i advice you & all bro & sis who have this book to read the 'misconceptions cleared ' part .as it includs strong answeres for many questions about madahibs and what should follow ,,etc.
Jazakum allahu khayran
sorry if i did some mistakes in english !!
Assalam Alaykum


:salam2:

:jazaak:

contented means satisfied with things as they are;

I myself stay quiet, when there is recitation because of hadith i previously quoted in red.

I really was probably whispered by the shaytan in salah yesterday to make a big deal over something that really shouldn't be. It's just I find some brothers in salah, next to me, speaking while the imam is reciting to a point they distract me. That is why I ask if there is any of the madhabs that make this acceptable. We can only control our own actions.

I take these statement mad by Imams very seriously:

Abu-Haneefa (rahima-hullaah)

"When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab." [20]

"It is not permitted [21] for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them." [22]

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (rahima-hullaah)

"Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'ee, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." [44]


And a matter of fact all madhabs speak in such similar manner that is Quran and Sunnah, with interpretation of.

You know after reading Al-bani ra work, I have great and deep respect for the differences encountered amoung muslims, and not like before that time where I would say to my self some judgement about a person; which we know it is only Allah who is "The Judge", of his servants.

Most likely, I have to exercise patience, because my experience has been through time things get clear up, Allah willing.

May Allah guide us all to the straight path.

:wasalam:
 

3aberSabyl

New Member
Assalam alaykum
واياك كل خير
well i know that meaning but as in arabic the words its different (i don't find it means satisfied in that context) so i wanted to check & verify if it could have another meaning,,i think i need to check the right translation of the hadith .
salam alaykum
 

daywalker

Junior Member
Allah Ta'aala says: "When the Qur'an is being recited then listen attentively and remain silent so that Rahmah will be showered upon you".

so no hadith can be given prefer over to the verse of quran.And when imam recites everyboyd should remain silent and hear to it.
 

daywalker

Junior Member
I take these statement mad by Imams very seriously:

Abu-Haneefa (rahima-hullaah)

"When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab." [20]

"It is not permitted [21] for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them." [22]

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (rahima-hullaah)

"Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'ee, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." [44]
the explaination of imam nabawi was bit clear for my understanding of this quotation.

Commenting on these statements, Imaam Nawawi (rahmatullah alayh) says:

"This which Imaam Shaafi has said does not mean that everyone who sees a Saheeh Hadith should say: 'This is the Math-hab of Shaafi, thus practising on the zaahir (text/external or apparent meaning) of the Hadith.

This most certainly applies to only such a person who has the rank of Ijtihaad in the Math-hab. It is a condition that he overwhelmingly believes that Imaam Shaafi was unaware of this Hadith or he was unaware of its authenticity. And this is possible only after having made a research of all the books of Shaafi and similar other books of the Ashaab of Shaafi, those who take (knowledge) from him, and others similar to these (books). This is indeed a difficult condition (to fulfil). Few are there who measure up to this (standard).

What we have explained has been made conditional because Imaam Shaafi had abandoned acting on the zaahir (text) of many Ahadith which he saw and knew. However by him was established proof for criticism in the Hadith or its abrogation or its specific circumstance or its interpretation, etc. (hence he was constrained to leave aside the hadith)."


Shaikh Abu Amr (rahmatullah alayh) said:

"It is not easy to act according to the apparent (zaahir) text of what Imaam Shaafi said. It is not lawful for (even) every Faqeeh (qualified Aalim who has deep insight) to act independently with that which he opines to be proof from the Hadith."

Discussing this statement in his treatise, Shaikh Yusuf Bin Ismaail Nibhaani says:

"Verily, the statement: 'When the Hadith has been authenticated, then it is my Math-hab' has been narrated from each one of these four Imaams who were free from personal opinion. The audience to whom this statement ('When the Hadith is Saheeh it is my Math-hab.') was directed, is only his (the Imaam's) Ashaab (the Fuqaha of his Math-hab) who were great and illustrious Aimmah fully qualified in the rational and narrational sciences (of the Deen). (And the statement is directed to) those who came after these illustrious Aimmah among the great Ulama of his Math-hab, those who were the Ahlut Tarjeeh (a high category of Ulama). All of them who were the Haafizeen of the Hadith of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) were fully aware of the daleels (proofs) of all the Math-habs.........These are the ones whom the Imaam (of the Math-hab) had directed his statement: 'When the Hadith is Saheeh, it is my Math-hab.'....Verily, they (these great Fuqaha) are able to reconcile between the Hadith from which the Imaam had derived proof, and the (latest) Hadith which was established as authentic after the Imaam. They (these illustrious Fuqaha) can see which of the two Hadiths is more authentic, stronger and which of the two Hadiths is the later one so that the later one can be the Naasikh (abrogator) for the earlier one."
(Hujjatullah alal Aalameen)
 

KashifB

New Member
«Do not do so, except for [each of you reciting] the opening chapter of the Book, for the prayer is not valid of the one who does not recite it.»[140]

:salam2:

Wasn't the Quran arranged into it's current form in the time of Usman ibn Affaan radiallahu anhu? Sura Fateha would not be the opening chapter then would it?

Can someone help in explaining this to me? JazakAllah
 

KashifB

New Member
No. The Quran was arranged in its order as verses were revealed. The prophet instructed the scribes to "place this verse after that other verse." It was complete, ordered, memorized, written down and copied before the prophet, peace be upon him passed away. Gabriel reviewed the Quran every year with the prophet and on the last year he reviewed it twice. Both Faatima and Hafsa, may God have been pleased with them, were entrusted with a copy of the Quran (Mus-haf).

What Uthmaan did, may God have been pleased with him, was compare any copy of the Quran with the one with Faatima and Hafsa and if it differed by even a letter, he burned the differing copy. He served Islam in a most profound way.

JazakAllah for clearing that up. The copies which Fatima and Hafsa had, were they written on paper? Some people claim that the Quran was written on bones, dried leafs and leather.
 

pcozzy

Junior Member
:salam2:

baraka Allahu feekum,

daywalker, ayman, 3aberSabyl

daywalker,

mashAllah, you seem to amaze me, you hit the mark all the time.


I just wanted to be assured that what I was doing correct because when I had to correct what I was taught when I was young was very difficult. So I have to go over and over again to make sure it is the correct way.

I read the books and they are clear but sometimes you just need that additional input from others that may know, to explain. Of course, If the issue is a real important one I would always ask an Imam or a certified sheik of knowlege.

jazaakum allahu khair

one of these days I plan to get a personal copy of siffat assalat annabi in arabic. That probably would be better for me to read anyway.

:wasalam:
 

boymuh

Hajj please..
Well, this thing been a khilaf between the scholars, from centuries ago. In fact, the four imaams had different opinion about this among them.

I sugest, maybe you should find out the opinion/ijtihad of each imaam/scholar, inc. their own reason as a mujtahid (mutlak mustaqil).

Wassalaamu'alaikum.
 
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