Abdul-Raheem
Signing Out.....
Check out this link. It's not an islamic site but from your very own CNN
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
Help me with the contradictions.
- Thread starter Red Ranger
- Start date
- Status
Middle Eastern countries account for less than 20% of the Total muslim population. Most Muslims are not Arabs.
Secondly, there are many millions of Christians who have lived in the Middle East for countless Millenia! They speak Arabic, they read their bible in Arabic, they go to church and they support some organisations deemed as "Terrorist"
by the USA. -- For example in Lebanon.
The US and UK has allies that commit War Crimes and Genocide against Muslims. They are allied with Russia, which according to ALL the independent human rights organisations, commits war crimes. They use rape as a weapon against Muslims. They kidnap and execute civillians. A Quarter of the total chechen population has been wiped out by Russia.
There are countless examples such as this, throughout history, many Western countries wreaked havoc with their Own weapons, and also sought to make use of the worst dictators - replacing great leaders with those leaders that only obeyed their conditions.
The people of those countries have not forgot. The British invaded Afganistan in the 19th Centurty. The Afghans have not forgot how the British would shoot all boys and men over the age of 12. How they invaded and persecuted its people.
The Pakistanis, Indians and Kashmiris have not forgot how the British forced the country and its people to do its bidding for 300 years.
The Muslims of the Southern phillipines have not forgot how the Spanish conquistadors attempted for 400 years to forcefully convert them to Islam. And how the US invaded their peaceful areas in the early 20th Century.
The Muslims of Russia havent forgot how their grandfathers were taken to Siberia to die in the cold. How they were kept in the Gulags. . and their lands taken forcefully. The Chechen crisis is an old crisis. A war of independence, same as that fought by many Muslims around the world.
We only ask for one thing, that is peace and being allowed to live without foreign intervention.
I object to cowardly people who send weapons and financial aid to countries that bomb innocent Muslims.
AND I Object to people claiming that Muslims dont condemn terrorism. We DO. It just doesnt make nice news coverage!!
I am a born Muslim, and I was born in the UK. I dont hate anyone, nor do I wish to hurt anyone! I have good relations with my non-Muslim neighbours and there are no problems.
I know about the problems in other Muslim countries, and I wish to see peace there. Right now, the double standards are from the Foreign policy of our states. On the one hand condemning terrorists (quite rightly!! ) on the other, they dont condemn State Terrorists who are the Originators of the terrorism.
The roots of Terrorism are from the Foreign policy of our own countries and our allies. The War on Terrorism can not be fought by force. That will just make matters worse.
I wish to see JUSTICE for all people, American, British, German, Indian, Pakistani, Yemeni.. whoever you are, we all deserve good treatment and the TRUTH.
Tony Blair recently said that the Iraq War has no influence on increased risk of terrorism. This flies in the face of what British Intelligence have said!! He has further ruled out foreign policy as having anything to do with terrorism, BUT, he concedes it did with Irish terrorism.
Its a strange old world, but my heart always will lie with those who have done no wrong. Whether they are the people who die in Palestine by American made bombs dropped by Israeli jets, whether they are boiled alive in Uzbekistan by our country's alliy, or whether they were killed on 9/11.
ISlam definitely has nothing to do with Extremism or Terrorism. Just like Christianity cant be blamed for the evil done in its name by groups and states. For example:
The Leaders and Generals of the Serbian Army which committed the greatest atrocities and Genocide since the 2nd world war kept in close contact with their Orthodox Clergy, who also helped shelter them from the UN, when they were wanted for War Crimes!!
Lords Resistance Army is a Christian Terrorist ARMY, which Rapes women, murders children, and torches houses, its founder says he follows the Bible. This is not even a small terrorist group, it is a large force of 1000s of members.
We made this website for PEACE. This is what Islam teaches. To build bridges of understanding between people and communities. Not to argue who does what or doesnt. We are human beings, and there will be people who misrepresent and do bad things in the name of their people or group. ALL Muslims are peaceful and law-abiding people. Those who dont are not proper Muslims. Just as those Christians who are members of racist organisations that go around putting dog faeces and urine through the letterboxes of Muslims, here in the UK.
True Justice is acknowledging Rights and Wrongs. It is wrong for people to do any form of terrorism against civillian people. likewise it is wrong to support Terrorist states and Governments which have had a hand in creating injustice. For someone to say all Muslims are terrorist, or to think that terrorism is exclusive domain of Muslims is wrong.
Just incase someone is new and hasnt read it:
Read This: Terrorism and the Oppression of Women Has Nothing to Do With True Islam.
TheHumbleWun
Banned
I actually live in the US and you have to know who owns the majority of the media, it is mostly run by Jews and I do have have link for that if you want to watch the video.
Let's take for example a man robs a bank--the media here always condemns " a Muslim robbed a bank" but if it was any other religion "a man robbed a bank." They associate the Muslim's religion as if it's the religions fault.
We can even take for example how many US/Western soldiers rape Muslim women/children in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. What about the prisoners of Guantanamo Bay? Whatever happened to the Costitution allowing a fair trial and getting a lawyer?
Did you know they had a Palestinian and Guantanamo Prisoners Release Day in Washington DC? did the media cover that? I don't think so!
It's funny how we always here the number of US soliders dying, what about the Iraqis? Afghans? Hundreds of thousands, but you don't hear that here. It's a silent issue. Honestly, I have a Iraqi friend, and he actually preferred living life under Saddam (even though he killed 120 people) than how his country is right now. By the way, Whatever happened to the weapons of mass destruction????
If you tried stepping inside a Muslim's shoes for one day, you would see "reality"
Red Ranger
New Member
They didnt blame the chirstians for what for what the serbs were doing, nither the Muslim did.. But why when it comes to Muslims situation and if one muslim did something wrong let say ""in chian"" you will blam 5 billion Muslim in the world !?!
I don't recall them doing it in the name of God.
beside if you want to have clear understanding of Islamic faith why dont you start from the root Read Quran ..!
No offense, but that will take more time and effort than I really want to spend. I am not a religious person. This is not to imply that I don't want to know what Islamics think.
Well since it's almost illegal in some countries to be anything but islam, I can take a guess. Religion tends to be a dangerous thing.
A man in Afganastan wanted to convert to Christianity and he was to be put to death before the rest of the world came to his aid. They determined that he was mental and this was the cause so he was to be spared...i little funny really.
I read that list of people that converted to islam. I haven't heard of any of them, not sure what the point was really.
I don't recall them doing it in the name of God.
beside if you want to have clear understanding of Islamic faith why dont you start from the root Read Quran ..!
No offense, but that will take more time and effort than I really want to spend. I am not a religious person. This is not to imply that I don't want to know what Islamics think.
Well since it's almost illegal in some countries to be anything but islam, I can take a guess. Religion tends to be a dangerous thing.
A man in Afganastan wanted to convert to Christianity and he was to be put to death before the rest of the world came to his aid. They determined that he was mental and this was the cause so he was to be spared...i little funny really.
I read that list of people that converted to islam. I haven't heard of any of them, not sure what the point was really.
Red Ranger
New Member
Middle Eastern countries account for less than 20% of the Total muslim population. Most Muslims are not Arabs.
but you don't dispute the claim that I can get killed for my religion. hmmmph. And yes I know the geographic make up of Islamic states....where did I mention arabs?
The US and UK has allies that commit War Crimes and Genocide against Muslims. They are allied with Russia, which according to ALL the independent human rights organisations, commits war crimes. They use rape as a weapon against Muslims. They kidnap and execute civillians. A Quarter of the total chechen population has been wiped out by Russia.
There are countless examples such as this, throughout history, many Western countries wreaked havoc with their Own weapons, and also sought to make use of the worst dictators - replacing great leaders with those leaders that only obeyed their conditions.
The people of those countries have not forgot. The British invaded Afganistan in the 19th Centurty. The Afghans have not forgot how the British would shoot all boys and men over the age of 12. How they invaded and persecuted its people.
The Pakistanis, Indians and Kashmiris have not forgot how the British forced the country and its people to do its bidding for 300 years.
The British oppressed us as well, get over it and quit living in the past. If we complained and looked back as much as many Islamic countries we'd not be where we are today. talk about holding a grudge. there isn't a person alive today that did anything to your people 300 years ago. I'll use the same argument: are you going to blame the whole country for something that happened 300 years ago?
I object to cowardly people who send weapons and financial aid to countries that bomb innocent Muslims.
apples and oranges.
The roots of Terrorism are from the Foreign policy of our own countries and our allies. The War on Terrorism can not be fought by force. That will just make matters worse.
apparanty talking is useless as well ie: Isreal
ALL Muslims are peaceful and law-abiding people. Those who dont are not proper Muslims
While i'm sure you're being serious, this statement has itself become cliche'
but you don't dispute the claim that I can get killed for my religion. hmmmph. And yes I know the geographic make up of Islamic states....where did I mention arabs?
The US and UK has allies that commit War Crimes and Genocide against Muslims. They are allied with Russia, which according to ALL the independent human rights organisations, commits war crimes. They use rape as a weapon against Muslims. They kidnap and execute civillians. A Quarter of the total chechen population has been wiped out by Russia.
There are countless examples such as this, throughout history, many Western countries wreaked havoc with their Own weapons, and also sought to make use of the worst dictators - replacing great leaders with those leaders that only obeyed their conditions.
The people of those countries have not forgot. The British invaded Afganistan in the 19th Centurty. The Afghans have not forgot how the British would shoot all boys and men over the age of 12. How they invaded and persecuted its people.
The Pakistanis, Indians and Kashmiris have not forgot how the British forced the country and its people to do its bidding for 300 years.
The British oppressed us as well, get over it and quit living in the past. If we complained and looked back as much as many Islamic countries we'd not be where we are today. talk about holding a grudge. there isn't a person alive today that did anything to your people 300 years ago. I'll use the same argument: are you going to blame the whole country for something that happened 300 years ago?
I object to cowardly people who send weapons and financial aid to countries that bomb innocent Muslims.
apples and oranges.
The roots of Terrorism are from the Foreign policy of our own countries and our allies. The War on Terrorism can not be fought by force. That will just make matters worse.
apparanty talking is useless as well ie: Isreal
ALL Muslims are peaceful and law-abiding people. Those who dont are not proper Muslims
While i'm sure you're being serious, this statement has itself become cliche'
TheHumbleWun
Banned
In Islam there is no compulsion. We can not convert someone by force, whereas for example here in the US you have people knocking on the doors trying to force you to read. You don't see a Muslim knocking on no ones doors. In Islam, everything is based on action. If a non-Muslim is curious or has a question the doors are always open, but we do not use force.
My point is, I see alot of Christian missionairies trying to go to Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan (most war torn) and trying to give these people incentives, such as food, bred, water, clothing, money if they convert to Christianity. Knowing these people lost their education and needs these incentives, it's a easy way to convert for these "hopeless" people. I am sure as is backed by many media, that the Afghan guy was given incentives to convert. What about the Crusaders, that killed thousands of Muslims to force them into Christianity?
Funny thing about that was... how does the US have authority to move a "prisoner" in one country into another (i.e. where he was taken to Italy). So now the US is the supreme judge of who gets the death sentence or not. International laws don't exist no more. Just like Vladimir Rasputin said, now every country has to defend themselves.
Hello. I am not a debator, nor do I ever want to be. I like to talk to people who like to listen with an open mind, not look for the first opportunity to shoot back an answer. That being said, the only reason I post here is because I would like to kindly ask... that at least you make yourself more credible by calling people who follow Islam, MUSLIMS, not Islamics.
It's like calling a person from the Netherlands a Netherlandian. Makes a person lose ground you know? Call them Dutch and maybe you'll get a better response.
Meaning, take your time to know about Islam, Learn about Muslims then come to talk and share a drop o' tea. Otherwise no matter how much debate and talk there will be no point.
Basicofislam
sister
brother ranger. yes in serbia the genocide was done with the idea that only white christians have the right to live on that land. Go back and read the articles from that time. Second please relax and dont think only in a negative way. Dont judge Islam by the people but by the message which was sent by God. We on this website are peace loving people all we want is to follow the true ISlam.The media really takes things out of context from the quran and says that it spreads violence which is not true. Take this for Example THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO SPREAD PEACE> I HAVE NOT COME TO SPREAD PEACE BUT A SWORD. This was not from the Quran but from the bible Matthew 10:24. If i just read this i would say wooo this religion is not good. But as a muslim i know our Dear prophet Jesus AS came to this earth to spread the word of God and peace. The aljazeera TV news that you were talking about is in english also and half the people working there are people from CNN, FoX etc. We muslims have suffered sooo much for soo many hundred years under colonial rule. And when the british and the french were leaving they devided the countries. There was no lebonon it was a part of syria. there was no israel it was all palestine. There was no saudi arabia. The name itself will tell you It was called Arabia the whole place. The saud family was a small tribe and when the colonial power left they put them there as the ruler. And from that you get the name saudi arabia. In India millions died under the colonial rule. All that is happening in this world is not something that happened 2 yrs back or 5 yrs back . This is the result of hundreds of years. But we can still make the world a better place i feel. Call me a dreamer . I say treat your neighbour the way you want to be treated. Even i dont think the palestenian had any problem with the jews coming and living with them on there land. They were welcomed by the palestenians when they came from europe. It is when they started throwing palestenian out and making there own land that when the conflict started. They could have all lived in peace on one land. Do we have to put boundries. We came from europe to america and the red indians welcomed us. Yet millions of them were massacred. Could we have not lived side by side with them. God did not make this world putting boundries. We as american cant seperate ourselves from everybody in this world. The world is becoming smaller and smaller day by day
Red Ranger
New Member
I actually live in the US and you have to know who owns the majority of the media, it is mostly run by Jews and I do have have link for that if you want to watch the video.
so are you saying that Jews can't be trusted to be fair but Islamics can? This is exactly what i'm talking about. Theres blind hate.
Let's take for example a man robs a bank--the media here always condemns " a Muslim robbed a bank" but if it was any other religion "a man robbed a bank." They associate the Muslim's religion as if it's the religions fault.
I hope you're referring to some place outside the US..as a matter of fact I don't recall ever hearing of a muslim robbing a bank.
Whatever happened to the Costitution allowing a fair trial and getting a lawyer?
The constitution has nothing to do with enemy combatants..I believe you are mistaking the Constitution (which only protects Americans) with the Geneva convention that the Insurgents do not follow. Your words will fall on deaf ears when the other side is cutting of the heads of their captives...in the name of allah.
Did you know they had a Palestinian and Guantanamo Prisoners Release Day in Washington DC? did the media cover that? I don't think so!
yeah they did...
It's funny how we always here the number of US soliders dying, what about the Iraqis? Afghans? Hundreds of thousands, but you don't hear that here. It's a silent issue.
why should they report it?
Honestly, I have a Iraqi friend, and he actually preferred living life under Saddam (even though he killed 120 people) than how his country is right now. By the way, Whatever happened to the weapons of mass destruction????
ask Seria...BTW he killed more than 120 people. But believe it or not I tend to agree with you. I predicted that once the US leaves (and i can't wait for the day) it will go back to a dictatorship. My biggest problem with the war is that it's futile. We could kill everyone of the insurgents and it wouldn't make a difference. Personally i'd like to cut all funding to the middle eastern countries and isolate our involvement with the exception of Isreal.
If you tried stepping inside a Muslim's shoes for one day, you would see "reality"
I've already fought over there, and don't give me a sob story. Everyone has had it tough from time to time. I assure that my gut tells me that you have never suffered.
so are you saying that Jews can't be trusted to be fair but Islamics can? This is exactly what i'm talking about. Theres blind hate.
Let's take for example a man robs a bank--the media here always condemns " a Muslim robbed a bank" but if it was any other religion "a man robbed a bank." They associate the Muslim's religion as if it's the religions fault.
I hope you're referring to some place outside the US..as a matter of fact I don't recall ever hearing of a muslim robbing a bank.
Whatever happened to the Costitution allowing a fair trial and getting a lawyer?
The constitution has nothing to do with enemy combatants..I believe you are mistaking the Constitution (which only protects Americans) with the Geneva convention that the Insurgents do not follow. Your words will fall on deaf ears when the other side is cutting of the heads of their captives...in the name of allah.
Did you know they had a Palestinian and Guantanamo Prisoners Release Day in Washington DC? did the media cover that? I don't think so!
yeah they did...
It's funny how we always here the number of US soliders dying, what about the Iraqis? Afghans? Hundreds of thousands, but you don't hear that here. It's a silent issue.
why should they report it?
Honestly, I have a Iraqi friend, and he actually preferred living life under Saddam (even though he killed 120 people) than how his country is right now. By the way, Whatever happened to the weapons of mass destruction????
ask Seria...BTW he killed more than 120 people. But believe it or not I tend to agree with you. I predicted that once the US leaves (and i can't wait for the day) it will go back to a dictatorship. My biggest problem with the war is that it's futile. We could kill everyone of the insurgents and it wouldn't make a difference. Personally i'd like to cut all funding to the middle eastern countries and isolate our involvement with the exception of Isreal.
If you tried stepping inside a Muslim's shoes for one day, you would see "reality"
I've already fought over there, and don't give me a sob story. Everyone has had it tough from time to time. I assure that my gut tells me that you have never suffered.
I think then you have to go and research, they were just killing Muslims...!!
Well if you dont have time then dont complain , you said help you understand...we told you read Quran...if you dont have the time then I think you dont have any right to blam ISLAM for the actions of others.
Hi,
I just realised that you have already registered once on this site under a Stupid nicname, for which you was banned.
You mentioned Geneva Conventions and have no idea about how the US has clearly breached those. It is clear that you dont see the US State terrorism or the Terrorism of other States.
Can I ask your purpose for being here other than spewing nonsense?
this website is not made for arguing.
I just realised that you have already registered once on this site under a Stupid nicname, for which you was banned.
You mentioned Geneva Conventions and have no idea about how the US has clearly breached those. It is clear that you dont see the US State terrorism or the Terrorism of other States.
Can I ask your purpose for being here other than spewing nonsense?
this website is not made for arguing.
Basicofislam
sister
brother ranger. yes in serbia the genocide was done with the idea that only white christians have the right to live on that land. Go back and read the articles from that time. Second please relax and dont think only in a negative way. Dont judge Islam by the people but by the message which was sent by God. We on this website are peace loving people all we want is to follow the true ISlam.The media really takes things out of context from the quran and says that it spreads violence which is not true. Take this for Example THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO SPREAD PEACE> I HAVE NOT COME TO SPREAD PEACE BUT A SWORD. This was not from the Quran but from the bible Matthew 10:24. If i just read this i would say wooo this religion is not good. But as a muslim i know our Dear prophet Jesus AS came to this earth to spread the word of God and peace. The aljazeera TV news that you were talking about is in english also and half the people working there are people from CNN, FoX etc. We muslims have suffered sooo much for soo many hundred years under colonial rule. And when the british and the french were leaving they devided the countries. There was no lebonon it was a part of syria. there was no israel it was all palestine. There was no saudi arabia. The name itself will tell you It was called Arabia the whole place. The saud family was a small tribe and when the colonial power left they put them there as the ruler. And from that you get the name saudi arabia. In India millions died under the colonial rule. All that is happening in this world is not something that happened 2 yrs back or 5 yrs back . This is the result of hundreds of years. But we can still make the world a better place i feel. Call me a dreamer . I say treat your neighbour the way you want to be treated. Even i dont think the palestenian had any problem with the jews coming and living with them on there land. They were welcomed by the palestenians when they came from europe. It is when they started throwing palestenian out and making there own land that when the conflict started. They could have all lived in peace on one land. Do we have to put boundries. We came from europe to america and the red indians welcomed us. Yet millions of them were massacred. Could we have not lived side by side with them. God did not make this world putting boundries. We as american cant seperate ourselves from everybody in this world. The world is becoming smaller and smaller day by day
Red Ranger
New Member
I would like to kindly ask... that at least you make yourself more credible by calling people who follow Islam, MUSLIMS, not Islamics.
It's like calling a person from the Netherlands a Netherlandian. Makes a person lose ground you know? Call them Dutch and maybe you'll get a better response.
what the? Do you not call those from America, Americans? If they believe in Chrisianity then they are Christians even though there are different religions. I will continue to call those who follow islam, islamics, it's not a disrespect thing. I don't want to get into this nickle and dime stuff or i'll ask you to refer to me as either Catholic, Baptist, etc.....
Meaning, take your time to know about Islam, Learn about Muslims then come to talk and share a drop o' tea. Otherwise no matter how much debate and talk there will be no point.
I don't think so. It would defeat the whole purpose of being here. I normally debate with those that aren't muslim. It would be nice to get the information from the horses mouth as it may.
It's like calling a person from the Netherlands a Netherlandian. Makes a person lose ground you know? Call them Dutch and maybe you'll get a better response.
what the? Do you not call those from America, Americans? If they believe in Chrisianity then they are Christians even though there are different religions. I will continue to call those who follow islam, islamics, it's not a disrespect thing. I don't want to get into this nickle and dime stuff or i'll ask you to refer to me as either Catholic, Baptist, etc.....
Meaning, take your time to know about Islam, Learn about Muslims then come to talk and share a drop o' tea. Otherwise no matter how much debate and talk there will be no point.
I don't think so. It would defeat the whole purpose of being here. I normally debate with those that aren't muslim. It would be nice to get the information from the horses mouth as it may.
Basicofislam
sister
I forgot to add my very close bosnian friends father and brother were killed by the serbian christians. They even cut one of her finger. so should one hate every christian . Off course no.
TheHumbleWun
Banned
I honestly don't see where Red Ranger is going with this. There is no purpose, just argument. I think this thread should be closed.
Red Ranger
New Member
It's not that I don't care but it seems your blind by your religion. Unable and unwilling to stand up against those running your religion. I don't mean to be rude but it's sad really.
mmm !!No one is running my religion, in Islam every one will be responsible about his/her action in front of Allah (God).
But when we see wrong we need to correct it either its from a Muslim or non Muslim and correct them with wisdom kindness.
any way we are not here to play blame games the site is to give information not to debate.
I think we have enough talk here....you are most welcom to stay and learn and contribute but please follow the rules.
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81
just wanted to share this link with you
http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-02-09-voa33.cfm
Take care for now
You are talking about Islam, yet you said you have no time to bother to learn about it.
You have stated yourself that you know nothing about Islam, yet you think you can feel free to comment about it.
Go Educate yourself.
Nobody "runs" my religion. Especially not the people you are thinking of.
im tired of people condemning and asking Muslims to apologise for acts of violence and terrorism committed by people who are NOT in anyway representative of Muslims. The extremists are a minority, and their actions , although evil are miniscule compared to the State Terror committed by the US, UK, Israel and its allies.
And Basicofislam Do not call this person "Brother".
I dont think there is much benefit in carrying this conversation anyway. It is just an argument where someone is speaking without any knowledge.
I think you should spend time reading from Islamic sources and actually learn what Islam is and who Muslims are.
Topic Closed
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