Hi.Im new.

Farida

New Member
Al salamou 3aleikom.

Right now,im talking to a friend.
Who doesnt believe in God.
I dont know what to tell her.
She asks me why god kills those who dont deserve to die.
I want to tell her that everything happens for a reason.
But she wont find it coherent.
She needs proof.
I want a good argument.

Can someone please help me?
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
:salam2:
Allah does what is best, but people through their selfish ways don't want to accept what is best. Also tell your friend that babies, fetuses, and the like don't go to Hell if they die, but go to Heaven.
 

SpangledStarz

Junior Member
:salam2:

If a child reaches puberty and dies do they still go to hell for the since they have done from the time they reached puberty?

:salam2:
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
:salam2:

If a child reaches puberty and dies do they still go to hell for the since they have done from the time they reached puberty?

:salam2:

:salam2:
I thought that whatever the child does before puberty isn't recorded? If that's true, then I guess the child would have a shot at Heaven (just remember that everything is up to Allah, though).
 

ripefig

Junior Member
Al salamou 3aleikom.
She asks me why god kills those who dont deserve to die.

:salam2:

First of all one cannot die if they were not created or given life in the first place. The one who gave life have every right to take life. When a child is born his/her life span is already written down. Predestination is a complex issue and we should not dwell too much in the things we cannot understand. We have to work with what we know for a fact, such as this magnificent world could not have happened by chance and there is definitely a creator. Once we establish this fact then we go to the Quran and the Sunnah. Then we put our trust in Allah most high. The FACT of the matter is that Allah most high knows the past present and future. He knows what is best and we have to put our trust in him. His power and magnificence is beyond our comprehension, so we should not frustrate ourselves wanting to know everything. We are encouraged to try to learn as much we can but we are limited. We should never complain about Allah, but we should complain to him. It is so sad that some people can eat the food that Allah created, breathe the air he created etc. and with that same breath say they disbelieve in him. Knowledge together with faith (Iman) can take us to another level but we have to believe in Allah before we can achieve this. This is my humble opinion and may Allah most high guide us.:jazaak:
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
:salam2:
I thought that whatever the child does before puberty isn't recorded? If that's true, then I guess the child would have a shot at Heaven (just remember that everything is up to Allah, though).

:salam2:

Ok... everyone... it's true, In Islam anything a child does before puberty... is not recorded... based on a Hadith..

(I AM SOOO SORRY I don't have time to go look it up, so this is from memory... so it is basically a summary of an understanding and not exact words!! May Allah forgive me if I say something wrong :( )

The prophet sallalahu alayhi wassalam said that , "The pen is lifted from three people: the Sleeping one until he wakes, the child until he attains maturity, and the mentally insane until they are sane"

wassalam.
 

Marwa17

Junior Member
hey Samiha, I agree with you on that about children not getting sins if they have not reached puberty thing...except I have no clue how to look up narratives (everything i know is practically stuff i've learned from my masjid or parents alhamdulillah)
Back to Farida's original question...i things these kind of things take time (not that i'm discouraging you or anything)...yes there will be a lot of arguing and both her side and yours...everyone always feels like they have to defend there opinions and it will only be when you provide her with an argument that will be too great for her to argue with will she turn to islam...do you want an argument against her point about why allah let's people die?? or an argument for islam??
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
assalamu alaykum.

I have read this hadith in a book.. i can't find the book.

I looked in Jame'al -Uloom wal-Hikam

(A compilation of knowledge and wisdom)

lolz... in English Alhamdulillah, Some realllly nice hadith, but it's not there :(

I know i'v read it somewhere... Inshallah, if i find I will post

Meanwhile... this is from Islam-qa.com about original sin in Islam .... (lol... by the way, it's so cool that they added a Chinese section, although I don't know a spec of Chinese :) )

__________________________

As regards what you say about original sin, this matter needs to be approached from several angles.

Firstly: The Islamic belief concerning human sin is: the individual bears the responsibility for his own sin; no one else should bear this burden for him, nor should he bear the burden for anyone else. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden…” [Faatir 35:18]. This refutes the idea of original sin. If the father commits a sin, what fault is that of his children and grandchildren? Why should they bear the burden of a sin that someone else committed? The Christian belief that the descendents should bear the sin of their father is the essence of injustice. How can any sane person say that the sin should be carried down the centuries by all of humanity, or that the children, grandchildren and subsequent descendants should be tainted because of their father’s sin?

Secondly, making mistakes is a part of human nature. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Every son of Aadam is bound to commit sins…” (reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2423), but Allaah has not left man unable to do anything about the mistakes that he makes. He gives man the opportunity to repent, and so the hadeeth (words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) quoted above concludes: “…and the best of those who commit sins are those who repent.” The mercy of Allaah is clear in the teachings of Islam, as Allaah calls His servants (interpretation of the meaning): “Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [al-Zumar 39:53]

This is human nature, and this is the solution to the problem of sin. But to make this human nature, which is bound to make mistakes, a barrier between the servant and his Lord which will prevent him from ever earning the pleasure of God, and to say that the only way to reach God is through His sending His (so-called) son down to earth to be humiliated and crucified while his father looks on, so that mankind could be forgiven, is an extremely odd idea. Just describing it sounds so unlikely that there is no longer any need to refute it in detail. Once, when discussing this issue with a Christian, I said, “If you say that God sent down His son to be crucified to atone for the sins of the people alive at his time and afterwards, what about those who had come before and died as sinners before the time of Christ, and had no opportunity to know about him and believe in the Crucifixion so that their sins might be forgiven?” All he could say was: “No doubt our priests have an answer to that!” Even if they do have an answer, it is bound to be concocted. There is no real answer.

If you really examine the Christian teaching on human sin with an open mind, you will see that they say that God sacrificed His only son to atone for the sins of mankind, and that this son was a god. If it was true that he was a god who was beaten, insulted and crucified, and died, then this doctrine contains elements of blasphemy because it accuses God of weakness and helplessness. Is God really incapable of forgiving the sins of all His servants with just one word? If He is Able to do all things (and the Christians do not dispute this fact), then why would He need to sacrifice His son in order to achieve the same thing? (Glorified and exalted be He far above what the wrongdoers say about Him!)

“He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How can He have children when He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All-Knower of everything.” [al-An’aam 6:101 – interpretation of the meaning]

An ordinary man would not accept anyone harming his child; he would come to his defence, and would never hand him over to an enemy who would insult him, let alone leave him to face the worst kind of death. If this is the attitude of a mere created being, what then of the Creator?

Thirdly, the Christian doctrine of original sin has a negative effect because, as you have mentioned, it does not require any duties of man other than to believe that God sent His son to this earth to be crucified and to die to atone for the sins of mankind. Thus a person becomes a Christian and is to earn the pleasure of God and be admitted to heaven. Moreover, the Christian believes that everything that happened to the son of God was only to atone for his sins, past present and future, so there is no need to wonder why Christian societies have seen such an increase in murder, rape, robbery, alcoholism and other problems. After all, did not Christ die to atone for their sins, and haven’t their sins been wiped out, so why should they stop doing these things? Tell me, by your Lord, why do you sometimes execute murderers, or put criminals in jail, or punish them in other ways, if you believe that the criminal’s sins have all be atoned for and forgiven through the blood of Christ? Is this not a strange contradiction?

Wassalam.
 

acedoc

Junior Member
Allah's wisdom and knwoledge

Al salamou 3aleikom.

Right now,im talking to a friend.
Who doesnt believe in God.
I dont know what to tell her.
She asks me why god kills those who dont deserve to die.
I want to tell her that everything happens for a reason.
But she wont find it coherent.
She needs proof.
I want a good argument.

Can someone please help me?

First of all can your friend explain how all this complex universe with millions of different organisms and ecosystems cam into existence. Can your freind show me even an single simplest inanimate object, such as a piece of thread, that come into exitence by itself or by a coincidemce (i.e. evolution).
So how can a human eye which is so complex that scientist after years of studying still do not understand its function completely can not only come into existence but also maintains itsef???

No for those believers and disbelievers who question the why God take life of the innocent or that people must suffer in this world when apparently they have commmitted no wrong or injustice.... There is ONLY one explanation. This worldly life is a TEST for all humans and Jinn.

Allah tests all of us in various ways. Sometimes we can acheive or attain a goal or something that we try so hard for...that is a test. At other times HE (Allah) grants us so many bounties/gifts (intelligence, family, health, family, education, beautiful body, succesful business, Imaan (faith and guidance)...and much much more).... and that is a test to see if we attribute this to our Creator and Sustainer or become arrogant and proud and take all credit. Human being will often say (or at least think) after winning or acheiving any thing in life, " My planning...my hard-work... my decisions....my investments...my intelligence...."
that is ungratefulness to Allah who is the Only Provider. Lastly, a test when Allah gives us soemthing and then after a while when we start to love it and get used to it HE takes it away from us...that is also a test. Humans who build beautiful buildings, brings up cute children, or establsihes a succesful business or spend years in getting education/learning and expertise/skills in any field of life begins to think that this will never end and can not be taken away from me... How mistaken is he/she.


Allah's plan and wisdom is beyond and superior to what we are capable of understanding or how we want life to turn out to be. When we see babies getting cancer or tsunami wiping out thousand s of lives or earth-quakes destroying all that we ever had...then we question Allah's existence. Subhan Allah.
Please read each and every word of th following verse from the Quran and believe in it if you claim to be a believer in Allah. As for those who are simply looking to argue and put doubts in the hearts of muslims about the existence of Allah..They shall never believe. Do your best to explain it to them if they don't do not lose any sleep over it. Allah guides who so ever He choses to guide.

Audu Bil Allah min shytan ar rajeem... Bismilahir Rahmanir Raheem


In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.


Surah Al Baqarah (chapter 2 verse 155-156)
002.155
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.

002.156
YUSUFALI: Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return (inna lil lahe wa inna illayhe raja'oun).



Also see surah Al Ankaboot (the Spider- chapter 29) first few verses:

029.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.M.


029.002
YUSUFALI: Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

029.003
YUSUFALI: We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false

029.005
YUSUFALI: For those whose hopes are in the meeting with Allah (in the Hereafter, let them strive); for the term (appointed) by Allah is surely coming and He hears and knows (all things).
[/COLOR][/COLOR]
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum,


Aisha [may Allah be pleased with her] said that the Prophet [peace be upon him] said the following:

رفع القلم عن ثلاث ، عن النائم حتى يستيقظ ، وعن الصغير حتى يكبر ، وعن المجنون حتى يعقل ، أو يفيق


"The pen has been lifted from three; The sleeping until he awakens, the young until he grows up and the insane until he's sane or awakens."

[Collected by An-Nisaa'i and authenticated as Saheeh [authentic] by Muhammad Nasiruddeen Al-Albani in Sahih Sunan An-Nisaa'i, hadith no. 3432, Volume 2, page 478. Published by Al-Ma'aarif Bookstore for Publishing and Distribution, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the First Edition of the New Edition 1419 AH - 1998 AD. Also collected by Ibn Majah and authenticated as Saheeh [authentic] by Muhammad Nasiruddeen Al-Albani in Sahih Sunan Ibn Majah, hadith no. 1673, Volume 2, pages 177-178. Published by Al-Ma'aarif Bookstore for Publishing and Distribution, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the First Edition of the New Edition 1417 AH - 1997 AD. The translation was done by myself]


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Assalamu Alaikum,


Aisha [may Allah be pleased with her] said that the Prophet [peace be upon him] said the following:

رفع القلم عن ثلاث ، عن النائم حتى يستيقظ ، وعن الصغير حتى يكبر ، وعن المجنون حتى يعقل ، أو يفيق


"The pen has been lifted from three; The sleeping until he awakens, the young until he grows up and the insane until he's sane or awakens."

:salam2:

Jazakallahu Khayr brother!!!! SO much!

Wassalam.
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum sister Samiha,


You're very welcome, and thank you for your supplication.


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
 

Nazih

New Member
short help

sorry i am busy but just short help maybe.
first their time is coming.
second sometimes they are good peoples but why the god kill them
we don't know they are really good or not we are just human so
only the god knows what in their heart.
and everyone should be die just different reasons .i hope i am helping
allah hafid.( this in my opinion )
 

Wulf

Junior Member
:salam2:

This may be off topic but I feel that it is relevent to the concept of "Original Sin"

The Christian doctrine concerning Original Sin is a corruption of it's original meaning. The idea that all, even the new born, were corrupt was introduced as a means of convincing the uneducated to have children baptised, which in turn increased the the size of the congregation because the parents were now obligated to raise their children in the "Faith" and by default, the wealth of the Church as a whole. Imposed Guilt was used to convince parents that, without Birth baptism, the child, should it die, would be comdemned to hell, denied entry into the Kingdom of heaven.

The basis of the Doctrine was that all acts of procreation between humans were sinful, even though the church encouraged large families, which of course meant that the church was leading the people into sin. The "Sinner?" would then have to pay for absolution. More Gold for the church.

So, what is the origonal meaning?

" The sins of the father shall be visited upon the children, even unto the Fourth generation"

As an ex Christian Seminary Student, studying for the priesthood, this was one of the arguments that I would have with my teachers.
It was a Rabbi who explained to me the true meaning as contained in his Holy books.
The sin of which it speaks is the sin of Incest. The child of an incestuous relationship, between a Father and a direct female blood relative, ie; daughter, grand daughter and etc; shall bear the sins of the father in it's deformity, and shall bear witness to the father's sin unto the fourth generation of that child.
I was taught that all children are born in innocence, their souls incorrupt and undefiled, without knowledge of sin. The Christian practice of Child Baptism, to remove imaginary sin, is a corruption.

:wasalam:
 
sorry i am busy but just short help maybe.
first their time is coming.
second sometimes they are good peoples but why the god kill them
we don't know they are really good or not we are just human so
only the god knows what in their heart.
and everyone should be die just different reasons .i hope i am helping
allah hafid.( this in my opinion )

There have been many threads on suffering and helping those who are athiests

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5457&highlight=athiest


"The Creator does not leave his creation unanswered"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
God created suffering and heartache, so that joy might be known as their opposite. Hidden things become manifest through their opposites. But God has no opposite; so he remains hidden. Light is known as the opposite of darkness. But God's light has no opposite. Thus we cannot know him through our eyes.

-Rumi, "Masnawi"
 
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