Hijab, Recommended or Mandatory? .

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  1. sister herb
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    2014/01/26
    Question:


    I was wondering about the issue of hijab. Most Islamic scholars say that the hijab is obligatory, however a few don't. I teach at a Sunday school. A few students quote these scholars who say that the hijab is only recommended but not obligatory. How should a Muslim respond when a student quotes these scholars? To make things more difficult, those scholars were born and raised and even studied Islam in Muslim countries! So how should a teacher respond?Some teachers just dismiss them but from my experience, because of the facts stated above, just dismissing them damages the teachers credibility and the students lose respect for us — teachers — and are less likely to listen on other issues. So how do I respond when a student brings an unorthodox argument from these scholars who are in fact very well-known and popular?

    consultant:

    Dr. Mohsen Haredy


    Answer


    Thank you for your question and for contacting Ask About Islam.
    Unfortunately, the issue of hijab is raised every now and then, not only in non-Muslim countries but also in some Muslim countries. Those who reject the hijab as being obligatory on Muslim women, consider it part of the culture that has nothing to do with religion, though it is part and parcel of the religion and constitutes the dress code ordained by Islam on Muslim women.
    In your question you referred to some names who reject the hijab. It is very strange that some of those who reject hijab, especially in Muslim countries, do not have a religious background. They discuss this issue as part of modernity and say that modernity does not support hijab as, according to them, it is a hindrance to the integration of women in their societies.

    What Makes a Scholar?

    There is an important note we have to make here, in order to understand Islamic scholarship and how Islamic Law is derived. Muslims derive the rules of Shari`ah (Islamic Law) from the Quran, the Sunnah, qiyas (analogical deduction), and ijma` (consensus) of scholars.

    After these main sources comes ijtihad (personal reasoning) of Muslim scholars. Scholars must meet certain conditions in order to validate their ijtihad. Scholars who exercise ijtihad must have knowledge of the Quran, Sunnah, consensus of scholars, and analogical deduction. They must also have knowledge of science of the abrogating verses of the Quran and the abrogated ones. They should also possess a natural skill and a sharp intellect to exercise ijtihad and analyze the deducted rules.

    It is worth mentioning that there are different specializations in the field of Islamic scholarship. There is a scholar of Hadith (the traditions of the Prophet), a scholar of fiqh (jurisprudence), a scholar of tafseer (the exegesis of the Quran), and so on. Each one is well-versed in a specific area. A scholar of Hadith can not be called upon to issue fatwas, for example. Therefore, Islam respects the concept of specialization, especially in the field of knowledge.
    Another important point that should be made clear is that Muslim scholars who exercise ijtihad do not differ as to the basic principles of the Shari`ah. We have not heard of a qualified scholar who said the Five Prayers are not obligatory or even that the Fajr Prayer, for example, is three rak`ahs and not two. They differ only as to detailed issues. Throughout all of the Muslim history, we have not heard of any qualified scholar who criticized hijab and tried to cast doubts on it being an obligation on Muslim women.

    Hijab… Thrice Confirmed


    The issue of hijab has been decided and made clear more than 1400 years ago, first by the Quran, then by the Sunnah, and furthermore by the consensus of Muslim scholars.

    In the glorious Quran, we read what means:

    {O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.}
    (Al-Ahzab 33:59)

    In another verse, we also read what means:

    {And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms.}
    (An-Nur 24:31)

    According to this verse, a woman's dress must cover her entire body with the exception of "that which is apparent" which, according to the most agreed-upon interpretation, refers to the face and hands.

    The word khimar in the verse quoted above means "women's head covering". The "bosoms" refer to any opening in the clothes that may show any part of the body. Thus, Muslim women are commanded to cover their heads and to draw this head cover until it covers any other openings in their clothes.

    In addition to the Quranic commandment, we also read in the traditions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) that he once said to Asma', daughter of Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with them): "O Asma'! Once a girl reaches puberty, nothing of her body may be seen by men who are not immediate family members except this and these (he pointed to his face and hands while saying so)." (Abu Daud)

    The Prophet's wives were the first to apply the command to draw veils over their bosoms. Also, the wives of the Prophet's Companions applied the same commandment.

    As we mentioned before, all qualified Muslim scholars throughout Islamic history agree on the obligation of hijab and that it is not a religious symbol to differentiate between Muslim and non-Muslim women, rather it is a dress code ordained by Islam on Muslim women. The command in the verse is considered as an obligation, and not a recommendation.

    It is clear from both Prophetic tradition and historical precedence that the obligation for Muslim women to wear the hijab cannot be taken as merely an interpretation given by Muslim scholars on the above verses. It is a clear-cut commandment from Allah the Almighty.

    However, it is true that Muslim scholars differed as to whether niqab (face veil) is obligatory or not. The majority are of the opinion that Muslim women are allowed to uncover their faces and hands. Again, as we mentioned earlier, scholars never argue over the basics of Islam, but only differ about details and side issues.

    You as a teacher cannot dismiss without comment the views of those scholars who criticize the hijab. Ask your students to bring the evidence that supports the views of those scholars, and try to make your students understand the nature of Allah's commandment in the verses quoted above.

    Try to open a dialogue with your students and make things clear to them. Teach them the etiquette of difference in Islam. Teach them that scholars differ only on very detailed issues. They cannot differ on major and essential issues like hijab.

    Let them know that those who criticize the hijab do not represent the majority of Muslim scholars. They are only expressing their own views which are baseless in the face of the mainstream Muslim views based on the Quran, the Sunnah, and the consensus of the Ummah.


    Source: http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...ip/166970-hijab-recommended-or-mandatory.html
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  2. sister herb
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    Hijab is Obligatory: Evidences from the Quran and Sunnah

    18/07/2013

    Wearing the Hijaab (Islamic covering) is a great act of worship and one of the most important obligations in Islam, as Allaah The Almighty has ordained it in His Book and has forbidden its opposite, which is uncovering and dressing improperly. The Prophet [​IMG] commanded it in his Sunnah (tradition) and forbade its opposite. Moreover, it is the consensus of the Muslim scholars throughout the ages that the Hijaab is mandatory. Therefore, claiming that this act of worship (i.e., the Hijaab) was only obligatory in a certain period of history is baseless and the burden of proof is upon those who make this baseless claim.
    As for the proof of the obligation of Hijaab in Islam, the following evidences clearly prove the obligatory nature of the Hijaab, and silence anyone who claims that it is an inherited tradition, or that it was only obligatory for the early Muslims.

    Evidences from the Quran:


    {"And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not display their adornment except that which [ordinarily] appears thereof and to draw their head covers over their chests and not to display their adornments [i.e., beauty] except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers, their brother's sons, their sister's sons, their women, that which their right hands possess [i.e., slaves], or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allaah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.''} [Quran, 24: 30]

    'Aa'ishah [​IMG] said,

    "May Allaah have mercy upon the early women of Muhaajireen (the emigrants who came from Makkah)! When Allaah revealed (what means): {"And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not display their adornment except that which [ordinarily] appears thereof and to draw their head covers over their chests and not to display their adornments [i.e., beauty] except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers, their brother's sons, their sister's sons, their women, that which their right hands possess [i.e., slaves], or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allaah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed "} [Quran, 24: 30] they tore a part of their garments and drew it down over their heads to cover themselves." [Al-Bukhaari]

    {"And women of post-menstrual age who have no desire for marriage – there is no blame upon them for putting aside their outer garments [but] not displaying adornment. But to modestly refrain [from that] is better for them. And Allaah is Hearing and Knowing."} [Quran, 24: 60].

    {"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allaah Forgiving and Merciful."} [Quran, 33: 59]

    {"And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves (adornments) like that of the times of Jaahiliyyah (i.e., the pre-Islamic era)."} [Quran, 33: 33]

    Evidences from the Sunnah:


    1. 'Aa'ishah [​IMG] narrated that 'Umar [​IMG] said to the Prophet [​IMG] "'O Messenger of Allaah! Why don’t you command your wives to cover themselves?' Then Allaah revealed the verse which obligates Hijaab." [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim].

    2. Ibn 'Umar [​IMG] narrated that the Prophet [​IMG] said: "On the Day of Resurrection, Allaah will not look at the one who drags his garment (below his ankles) out of pride." Umm Salamah [​IMG] therefore asked, "What should women do with their dresses?" He [​IMG] replied: "They should only lower it a hand-span (below the ankles)." She then replied, "But then their feet would be uncovered (while walking)." So he [​IMG] said: "Then they should lower it by an arm's length." [Abu Daawood and Tirmithi]

    Source: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/a...bligatory-evidences-from-the-quran-and-sunnah
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  3. sister herb
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    Is hijab obligatory for beautiful women only or for all women?


    Is hijab obligatory or something extra? If it is obligatory, is it obligatory for attractive and beautiful women only or for all Muslim women?.

    Praise be to Allaah.

    Hijab is obligatory for all Muslim women who have reached the age of puberty. In the answer to question no. 12525 you will find an explanation that the face is ‘awrah. We have already quoted the evidence that it is obligatory to cover it in the answer to question no. 21134 and 21536. In the answer to question no. 11774 you will find detailed evidence stating that hijab is obligatory for all women. This general obligation is indicated by the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
    [al-Ahzaab 33:59]


    The women of the Muhaajireen and Ansaar obeyed that command.

    ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “May Allaah have mercy on the first Muhaajir women. When Allaah revealed the words ‘and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)’ [al-Noor 24:31] they tore their aprons and covered their faces (akhtamarna) with them.”

    Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4480; Abu Dawood, 4102

    What is meant by akhtamarna is covering the face, as al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar stated in al-Fath, 8/490.
    It was narrated that Umm Salamah said: When the words ‘draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies’ were revealed, the women of the Ansaar went out as if there were crows on their heads because of the way they covered themselves.

    Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4101; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abu Dawood.

    Undoubtedly many of the women of the Muhaajireen and Ansaar were known to be blessed with beauty, but no one thought that this ruling applied only to them and not to others.

    These ahaadeeth show that the women of the Muhaajireen and Ansaar obeyed the command to cover their faces and they did not understand the command as applying only to those who were beautiful.

    The scholars have explained that this ruling is general in meaning and applies to all women.

    In his commentary on the verse ‘draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies’, al-Jassaas al-Hanafi (may Allaah have mercy
    on him) said:

    This verse indicates that young women are commanded to cover their faces in front of strangers (non-mahram men) and to be modest when they go out lest people with suspicious minds raise their hopes when they see them.

    Ahkaam al-Qur’aan
    , 5/245.

    Ibn Jazi’ al-Kalbi al-Maaliki (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    The Arab women used to uncover their faces as slave women do, which was an invitation to men to look at them. So Allaah commanded them to cover themselves with their jilbaabs and cover their faces with them.

    Al-Tas-heel li ‘Uloom al-Tanzeel
    , 3/144

    Shaykh al-Islam ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible for women to uncover their faces where non-mahrams can see them. The people in authority have to enjoin what is good and forbid this evil and others. Whoever does not obey should be punished for that in a way that will deter him (from doing it again).

    Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 24/382

    Al-Suyooti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    This is the verse of hijab which applies to all women and shows that they are obliged to cover their heads and faces.

    Awn al-Ma’bood, 11/106

    See also the answer to question no. 13646

    And Allaah knows best.

    Source: http://islamqa.info/en/47569
  4. zaman-gm
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    Jazak Allahu Khiran.
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    In verse 24:31, we read that it says to draw the khimar over the bosom. Modern dictionaries and scholars will define the word Khimar to mean a head cover. Yet was this the meaning at the time of revelation? The root word is khamr, which means to cover and is also the same root word used for intoxicants in the Qur’an because intoxicants cover a person's intellect. So it is clear that the word khimar means a cover for the body because of the meaning of the root word, but there are no ancient Arabic writings from the time of the Prophet or as even as early as within the first century after the time of the Prophet in which the word khimar is used only to refer to covering the head or hair. The understanding that the word khimar means a head cover is stated much later by scholars and dictionaries written centuries after the revelation, with no ancient Arabic writings to support this view. Ibn Kathir himself in his commentary of the Qur'an says that the word means something that covers, and it is what is used to cover the head. Not that its meaning is a head cover.

    We also have the following statements from the 4 Imams whose works are the foundation of the 4 different schools of thought in Sunni Islam. Abu Hanifah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.” Maalik said: “I am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.” Al-Shafi’i said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence, then this is my view.” Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and do not follow Maalik or al-Shafi’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

    So above we see that the 4 Imams themselves do not say to follow them, that they are only giving their opinion, and to reject their opinions if the evidence shows differently and can be supported by the Qur’an and Sunnah. In short, we are to go where the evidence lies and thus far, there is no evidence that the head cover is mandatory as they themselves never show evidence that doing so is a teaching they learned directly from companions of the Prophet, who learned it from the Prophet.

    However, scholars have used a few primary arguments to justify that the word khimar refers to a cover only for the head and hair. One argument is based on the hadith that states that when the verse was revealed, the women cut the bottom of their waist sheets and covered their head and faces. (Bukhari vol 6 book 60 num 282). For starters, Ibn Hajar in his commentary of Bukhari says it should be translated as covered themselves ( transliteration of the words in Bukhari ikhtamarna bi ha). However, he does continue to say that although it should be translated as covered themselves, it means to cover their faces. Yet clearly, the covering of the face is his own opinion since the Arabic word for face is not there, as he admits by saying it should be translated as to cover themselves.

    Furthermore, this does not necessitate that the word khimar means a cover only for the head and hair because a head cover was always a form of modesty according to the CULTURE. We see that Mother Mary wore a head cover according to Christianity and it is mentioned in their Bible to pray with the head covered (cor, 11:5,6,13). All of which is prior to the Prophet coming, thus showing that covering the head existed within the culture, especially when we consider the fact that there were Arab Christians living during the time of the prophet. We also know that the Prophet and Early Muslims reached into Abyssinia, which is North Africa and conquered Egypt during the time of Umar (ra), and at no time in history did the African Muslims commonly practice covering their head and hair completely. In fact, it was not a common practice anywhere in the Muslim world in the first few centuries after the Prophet until the tenth century and more common after the Ottomans took control in the early 14th century. However, even Ibn Battuta states that in the 14th century the women in Turkey did not wear a head cover. At the same time, there is no reliable chain of narrators going back to the first 4 Caliphs of Islam that ever document or report any dispute or issue they had with the Muslims regarding the fact that they did not wear the head cover all this time, which only supports the history that it was not mandatory. This shows that covering the head was a cultural practice only by some people before, during, and after the time of the Prophet and when the verse was revealed to cover, they covered their selves as they saw fit within their culture. Not because the verse says so because no one forced the early Muslim women to do so and there was no dispute or issue when they did not do so.

    Another hadith that is used to say the word khimar means a head and hair cover only is the hadith in Abu Dawud that says nothing should show except this and this, and the Prophet pointed to his face and hands. (Abu Dawud num 4104). This is supposed to be proof that all of a woman's body is to be covered except the face and hands. Yet no one seems to want to finish the hadith. It actually says in the hadith that the hadith is mursal because the narrator is not known to have met Aisha (ra). This makes the hadith of a lesser degree in authenticity rather than the highest degree.

    Another claim, which is known from Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi, says women would wear the khimar to cover their heads but the ends of the khimar would hang down their back, exposing the chest. The claim continues to say that when the part of the verse that says to cover the chest was revealed, the women took the ends of their head cover and covered their chest instead of leaving it hanging down their back. This is to show that since they chose to use their head covers to cover their chest in response to the word khimar in the verse, this means khimar refers to a head cover.

    Still, this does not show that khimar means head cover just because some women reached for their head covers because by that logic, it should mean a waist sheet since the hadith in Bukhari (Bukhari vol 6 book 60 num 282) also says they reached for their waist sheets to cover as well. Also, and as stated by ibn Hajar, the translation says to cover themselves. So it does not specify covering the head and since there is no documentation showing that there was an issue between the Prophet or early Caliphs with the Africans who did not wear a head cover shows that it was not mandatory to wear one.

    Thus the evidence is clear that the Khimar does not mean a head and hair cover, but that it means a cover for the body, and wearing it is not mandatory. It is a choice based on cultural practice.

    And Allah knows best.
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  6. sister herb
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    ^^ It´s always danger to start to "prove" things by yourself and leave the knowledge of the scholars behind. Also it´s not very sensible to repost to here after your similar post is just deleted. :rolleyes:
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    Response: To the contrary, what is danger is to ignore the words of Allah who is perfect and says we should use logic and reason (10:100), that the word truth is based on logic and reason, and instead rely on scholars who are not infallible and do not use logic.

    If you are for truth you would obey Allah and use common sense, which is to use logic and reason. Not engage in the practice of tailed and blindly follow alleged scholars who are fallible.
  8. sister herb
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    As well your logic might be fallible. Your interpretation about this matter is so different than usually and thats why people should to be carefull with kind of "own interpretations". Plus scholars have knowledge what ordinary layman hasn´t. That´s why better to listen the opinions of more learned people.

    I discussed with you before already about same matter in other thread (which is deleted). I don´t see any reason to continue. No need to repeat same words

    Anyways, welcome to forum.
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    Response: If it is fallible, then one should be able to demonstrate so. Yet no one has done so. The Qur'an says to use reason. Truth is defined by logic and reason. So as long as what I have stated cannot be shown to be illogical, then my "own" interpretation is valid. So I say I am in good company. Whereas when you blindly follow alleged scholars, such a practice is supported no where in the Qur'an and contradicts truth.

    Thanks for the welcome.
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    You made your title the conclusion of your thread and you talk about logic...

    Hijaab in particular covering of the head is Obligatory according:

    1) To the Book of Allah and the understanding of the most knowledgeable Mufas'siriin on the Book of Allah.

    2) To the authentic Sunnah.

    3) To the consensus of Muslim scholars.

    4) and according to the rational thinking of both less knowledgeable and more knowledgeable sincere Muslims.

    You hardly pointed out anything to be taken as a point to consider and the very verse you objected to proves the obligation of a head cover in many ways.

    (Qur'an 24:31): i) in this verse there is the mention of khumur and it's true it's basic root is to conceal...
    i) khumur as you see is plural, you only tell me when in grammar a verb takes the plural form unless Khumur is the plural form of the noun Khimaar(headcover)...besides, in this verse there is also the mention of ( و-ال-(يضربن which you translated as "to draw" and trere is also (لا-( يضربن at the ends of the verse (which according to your first translation should mean "not to draw") but as you know it has different meaning... same word two different meanings. You'll realise it's possible to have that becouse of the context and so CONTEXT matters alot in the understanding and translation of the Qur'an. And the context of Khumur in that verse is what we have from reliable narrations and one of them is what you mentioned of Imam Qurtubi(may Allah have mercy upon him)...

    ii) Besides the contextual meaning of khumur as headcover (or something that covers the head and drawn from it to cover the chest) there is the statement ولا يبدين زينتهن الاما ظهر منها ( and display not of their adornment except that which is apparent 'and impossible to conceal') and if you read little bit ahead it says ( and display not of their adornment except to "a variety of people which are all non marriageable to them)... so to understand these two: are women simply being told they can and should walk topless or maybe naked in the presence of their fathers and brothers? Does that sound moral to you?... The answer must be "No"... The women are being told that they can uncover of what's apparent of their adornments(e. g neck, head... etc parts which a woman normally uuncovers in her house) In the presence of a non marriageable men... and they can only uncover that much in the presence of non marriageable men only... so from this we understand that covering the head and other parts of a woman's adornment is obligatory in essence and that exception is only given to her mehrams!

    iii) At the end of the verse is (... And let them not stamp their feet so as to make known what they hide of their adornments) meaning they should not stamp their feet to make the sounds of anklets or the likes heard lest men should be tempted by that... is uncovering the head not a bigger temptation? And the perfect wisdom of Shariah is that it doesn't prohibit a lesser tempting matter and permit a more tempting matter... surely uncovering the head is much more tempting and hair is among the best of a woman's Zeenah.

    Besides this there are other verses which give the notion that headcover is obligatory: (Q 24:60) (Q33:59)...

    The authentic Ahadith on this issue are also many and well known...

    The consensus among muslim scholars is clear and only a person with the very basic/beginner knowledge of Islam understands the importance of Ijmaa' those who neglect such the beginning knowledge of Islam may not give much heed to it.

    I can't any see anywhere where you've proved from Qur'anic verses that it's allowed to uncover your head! You only argued its obligation!...This is maybe what's forming your argument that there is no reported incident of a dispute over headcover, dating back to era of the 4 Caliphs(may Allah be pleased with them all)

    Hmmm... pork is Haraam yet it's mentioned less times as Hijaab in the Qur'an And authentic Sunnah?
    Pork is Haraam but then if it's Haraam why don't we have sound chain of narrations dating back to the era of khulufaa'ur raashiduun that speak of disputes of pork and how those who were caught dealing with pork were dealt with?

    you have to see that not having disputes over it never makes the pork to be Halaal! Maybe those Muslims were more righteous... maybe the priority of reports and handling of cases was given to more important matters... We can never know but it makes a joke of your logic if you were to hold on to that much(that they were no reported disputes over headcover)!

    Women from Turkey(by Ibn Battuta) and African women did not wear the headcover... hold on @ Al-Fatiha there is one thing I do not understand: did Turkish and African women know so much of Islam(more like or closer to your knowledge) that they covered all their body except the head? The knew that the headcover is not mandatory and so they chose to uncover the head?

    you're mixing up two things: not having a dress code and uncovering the head only deliberately as per the Islamic teachings!

    For the Turkish women I don't know about their history but I'm African and what I learnt in class of African History suggest that we(Africans)didn't "dress properly" as late as some centuries ago! And that has nothing to do with the knowledge of Islam. In fact it has all to do with the absence of Islam and the lack of Islamic knowledge in the continent as first thing to tell Africans about covering their bodies was Islam!

    This piece of History that you hold so much dear to you has nothing to do with covering the body and letting the head uncovered in accordance with Islamic understanding...

    The reasoning: is the headcover a bad thing to do or not? Could have been of help if indeed logic is what leads you!

    (You said you don't find anyone disproving you logically. This is becouse we find your thread so pointless, as pointless as a non Muslim writing "Islam is not the true religion" and using the Qur'an to prove so)
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
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  11. Abuu-sayfulloh
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    mr/mrs fatihah...

    Your stance is just too dodgy, and unagreed with!!!..................
    How do you come to such conclusion?
    Evidences that refutes you from the qur'an and sunnah are just too numerous to mention..
    Your reasonings and logistics are inaccurate.
    Plus let me remind you that these deen is a deen of ulama (scholars) you can't do away with scholars finilisation on issues, buh no "taqleed" is welcome.
    So you need to re do your research sir.
    Look ONLY to the book and sunnah and you shall find therein many evidences that make the HIJab WAAJIB. By the "Siighatul amr".
    May Allah guide us aright.
  12. Abuu-sayfulloh
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    mr/mrs fatihah...

    Your stance is just too dodgy, and unagreed with!!!..................
    How do you come to such conclusion?
    Evidences that refutes you from the qur'an and sunnah are just too numerous to mention..
    Your reasonings and logistics are inaccurate.
    Plus let me remind you that these deen is a deen of ulama (scholars) you can't do away with scholars finilisation on issues, buh no "taqleed" is welcome.
    So you need to re do your research sir.
    Look ONLY to the book and sunnah and you shall find therein many evidences that make the HIJab WAAJIB. By the "Siighatul amr".
    May Allah guide us aright.
  13. Al-Fatihah
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    Response: Your claims only makes my point. You want us to accept that a head cover is mandatory, then present a post in which no where could you quote a verse from the Qur'an or Sunnah that says the head cover is mandatory. Not one. Thus making my point.

    You do not have any ancient Arabic writings from the time of the Prophet or as even as early as within the first century after the time of the Prophet in which the word khimar is used only to refer to covering the head or hair, or any reliable chain of narrators going back to the first 4 Caliphs of Islam that ever document or report any dispute or issue they had with the Muslims regarding the fact that they did not wear the head cover all this time. Thus supporting the fact that both history and Islamic sources proves that the head cover is NOT mandatory in Islam. It is a cultural practice.

    What you have is the works and practice stemming from taqleed, in which you blindly follow and accept the opinions of scholars, who also blindly accepted opinions told to them, despite having no logical evidence for their claims.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  14. Al-Fatihah
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    Response: Claiming to have evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah means that you can quote the words "the head cover is mandatory" or something synonymous to it. You did not. Thus your own failure to do so shows there is no such evidence and the head cover is not mandatory. Otherwise, you would be able to quote it.

    Thus the claim that it is not mandatory remains logic and valid, supported by your own failure to show otherwise.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  15. cabdixakim
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    How can you just ignore the long post I wrote... I quoted from the Qur'an. I even refutted the part where your claim that historical facts determine that headcover is cultural And about "no reported incidents"... Have you even read my post @Al-Fatihah?

    Or you've taken it as a personal attack on you? No one is denying you a space to express yourself but when you make inaccurate representation of Islamic teachings and you present it in such a manner that you think no one can ever have a say against you, people ought to take a stand and refute your arguments!

    If your intention is only to discuss the issue, you'd have forwarded the discussion by bringing up new points, new arguments!

    but you're only repeating yourself! (Blind follow, no logic...etc)

    so it's better if you let go of this one!

    besides, do you or your family members practise head cover? Then that's all you need! Be misguided or guided to your own understanding but you don't need to save other muslims from something which is GOOD!

    are you saving the Muslim sisters from Hellfire for what evil they do of headcovering?

    Then rest in peace!
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  16. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Argumentation like member al-Faatihah is similar like with those whose wants to modernize Islam. By similar "logics" they try to make haram looks halal. Many of them claim as well that drinking sometimes, adultery, homosexuality, dating or lack of praying are allowed in Islam as well. And if scholars say no to their logic they discount their words like this member does too.

    The true Islam doesn´t fit to their own values and thats why they try to change Islam, not their own lifestyles.

    Kind of thinking has became more and more common nowadays when people want to glorify the West and become identical like the secular westerners.
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  17. Al-Fatihah
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    Response: You have not refuted anything. You do not have any ancient Arabic writings from the time of the Prophet or as even as early as within the first century after the time of the Prophet in which the word khimar is used only to refer to covering the head or hair. Where is it? You provided nothing.

    Nor did you provide any evidence that a head cover was commonly worn during the Prophet’s life or even a century after his death, nor any reliable chain of narrators going back to the first 4 Caliphs of Islam that ever document or report any dispute or issue they had with the Muslims regarding the fact that they did not wear the head cover all this time. Thus supporting the fact that both history and Islamic sources proves that the head cover is NOT mandatory in Islam. It is a cultural practice.
  18. Al-Fatihah
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    Response: To the contrary, arguments like yours are similar to those who practice taqleed and bidah, by blindly following innovations with no logical evidence. You have parroted and accepted what was told to you and you take the opinions of scholars without verifying whether their opinion is logical and supported. Even the scholars you quote say do not blindly follow and they themselves never claim to be correct, yet you even ignore the very scholars you blindly follow.

    The head cover was not commonly worn anywhere in the whole Muslim world until the 10th century and even until the 14th century, Ibn Battum reports that the women of Turkey were no covered. These are historical facts.

    So it is you claim that is the "modern" approach, as no logical person or scholar of the past, even those you reference, would ever validate your actions to blindly follow people without evidence. and even the scholars you reference never make the claim that they are correct. Yet you continue to blindly quote and follow them. Such a practice is not Islam and never has been.

    May Allah guide you.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  19. sister herb
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    I trust much more to the words of well educated scholars than some unknown who writes to the internet.

    Specially the new muslims should to be very carefull with the words from the people like you, whose try to change black to white and white to black and call it their "logic" and whose ignore wisdom of the scholars.
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  20. Al-Fatihah
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    Response: All of which makes my point. You trust the opinion of scholars with no logical reason or evidence to support it. Then claim an opposing view is illogical even though you blindly follow an opinion which is not logically supported.

    So you make my point that your method of taqleed is invalid as it has no logical basis and nothing from the Qur'an or Sunnah supports it. So if you choose to go against the Qur'an and Sunnah, that is your business.

    Those of us who are devout to truth and Islam will continue to use logic and reason and not your blind faith approach which Islam does not support.

    We also can see in the OP where I quoted Ibn Kathir, Ibn Battum, and even the 4 Imams of Madhab, who all support my view and reject your approach. So I am in good company.
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