images in the mosque!!!

[nextman]

i just need some info about these images in the mosque, i know photos and images of people are all out haram but we live in england and have recently unveiled our new mosque. much to the delight of hundreds of muslims in our area we had to have 3 eid jamaats to facilitate all the people who wanted to pray. There is just a small group of people who believe praying in our mosque is unacceptable, namely - my father and his friends (they are commitee members of another mosque who actually opposed building our new mosque).they believe images in the mosque are strictly prohibited under all circumstances, the images are above each of our exits, here is the image i am talking about:

try not to laugh,(or cry).please bare in mind it is against the law to take these signs off. i just want to know if the little man running away from the fire should cause any concern. if we take them off we face heavy fines from the council and closure of the mosque totally. we cant have signs that just have "exit" written on them because non-english-speaking people wont understand. any references from hadith and quran would be extremely helpful to me.

wasallaam

 

[nextman]

this image is exactly like the ones in our mosque:

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Salaams

I am no scholar but I can't help thinking that as the intention for placing the signs is for reasons of safety and could, insha'allah, save someone's life, then they must be allowed. Hopefully your mosque has been designed so that the direction of prayer is not facing any images and insha'allah all should be fine....they are signs designed to save lives so insha'allah this must be okay I think...perhaps someones can ask a scholar specifically to clarify.

Salaams

 

[NewMuslim]

Assalmu Alaykum
I couldn't help but laugh at that "Fire Exit" sign

Anyways, it is in my knowledge that images showing faces of things with souls are prohibited in Islam. Those pictures are showing just stickmen and not faces, so I would say that are Halal. BUT, BUT, BUT! I'm in no position to give Fatawa (plural of Fatwa)! But from what I know, it IS Halal.

 

[nextman]

salaam, thanks for your reply, i appreciate it. i have actually quoted the hadith "innamal a'malu binniyathi" but for some reason these people dont seem to understand, i was hoping for a hadith or verse of the quran that explains the importance of following "the law of the land" or anything else that may convince them that their prayer would be accepted.

 

[nextman]

thats exactly what i was looking for, i just need a reference to prove it

 

[nextman]

(that last post was a reply to NewMuslim)

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Salaams again

I was sent the following on email sometime ago - it may help you insha'allah. I also suggest you try SunniPath.com and search their answers or email them direct.

Ruling on Praying in Places with Images​

Question:
Is it permissible for us to pray in a place where there are images and we are not able to destroy these images?


ANSWER

Praise be to Allaah.

It is OK to pray there, especially if these images are something that may be stepped on, such as images on mattresses or other images that may be walked on and stepped on. This is OK, as was clearly stated by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah. But if the pictures are in front of you when you face the Qiblah, this is makrooh [disliked], but the prayer is still valid, in sha Allaah, and that is OK. If you can find a place where there are no images, that is better, but if you cannot, and you pray (in the place where there are images), the prayer will be valid and there will be no sin on you.

And Allaah knows best.



Fataawa Samaahat al-Shaykh `Abd-Allaah ibn Humayd, p. 79




Praying in a room in which there are images

Question:
Is it permissible to pray in a room in which there are images?



ANSWER



Praise be to Allaah.

The most correct view is that it is not permissible to pray in a room in which images of animate beings are hanging, on the basis of several reports, including the following:

The hadeeth of Ibn `Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or images." (Agreed upon).

The hadeeth of `Aa'ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) returned from a journey and I had covered an alcove with a blanket on which there were images. When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw it, he tore it down and said, `The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be those who imitate the creation of Allaah.'" (Agreed upon).

The hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Jibreel came to me and said: `I came to you yesterday and nothing prevented me from entering except that there was a statue by your door, and there was a curtain in your house with images on it, and there was a dog in the house. So tell someone to cut the head off the statue by your door, so it will look like a tree; tell someone to cut up the curtain and make it into floor-cushions that will be stepped on; and tell someone to put the dog outside.'" So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did that. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) gave a brief answer to this question, when he was asked: is it permissible to pray in synagogues and churches where there are images, or not? Can we say that they are the houses of Allaah, or not? He replied: they are not the houses of Allaah, for the houses of Allaah are the mosques. These (churches etc.) are houses in which people express their disbelief (kufr) in Allaah. Even though Allaah may be mentioned in them, the house is the same as its occupants, and their occupants are kuffaar, so they are the houses of worship of the kuffaar.

As regards praying in them, there are three scholarly views in the Madhhab of Ahmad and others: absolute prohibition, which is the view of Maalik; absolute permission, which is the view of some of the companions of Ahmad; and the third view, which is the correct view and was narrated from `Umar ibn al-Khattaab and others, and from Ahmad and others. This view states that if there are images in the church, we should not pray there, because the angels do not enter a house in which there are images, and because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not enter the Ka'bah until the images inside it had been wiped out. Similarly, `Umar said: we do not enter their churches if there are images inside.

Churches are like mosques that are built over graves. In al-Saheehayn it says that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was told about a church in Ethiopia, and the adornments and images inside it. He said: "When a righteous man among them dies, they build a mosque (place of worship) over his grave and put those images there. They will be the most evil of people with Allaah on the Day of Resurrection. " But the Sahaabah did pray in churches in which there were no images.

And Allaah knows best.



Reference: Masaa'il wa rasaa'il, Muhammad al-Mahmoud al-Najdi, p. 28


---





hope that helps.

Salaams

 

[Ahmed ibn Ibrahim]

edit: Not exactly related to this thread, but these are Images in the Home. =) Thanks for your help



This is something that I'm going to have a hard time with. My wife and I have collected a few nice framed pictures - one of NYC and the WTC building pre911, a Monet of some Sunflowers, a VanGough of some Sunflowers, a picture of a Carribean scene from the Carribean, another smaller picture of some women's hats, hehe some "The Matrix" framed posters from my earlier days... I also have a picture of my wife's Graduation Photo framed from back when we were in Highschool together. We've also bought an Islamic hanging, of the Arabic characters for "Bismillah" in formal, full form.

Are any of these Halal? I'd hope that we can keep photos of family members, and I really really hope that the Bismillah and other Islamic/Arabic hangings are ok.

Update: My wife just called from work, and it turns out she's fine with leaving the Artsy ones at her parents house - so there's a major worry off of my chest. =) I'm just going to get rid of The Matrix ones.

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

:salam2:

There is nothing wrong with pictures of inanimate things such as flowers,buildings etc, so your van gough, monet and hat pics are safe There is also nothing wrong with landscape pics. Pictures of humans, animals and other living creatures are haram.

 

[Kashmiri]

Hmmm what about a teddy bear key holder. Its stuck agaianst the wall to hold keys?

Wa Alaykum Asalaam Warahmatullahi Wabarakathuhu

 

[Kashmiri]

well its a teddy bear made out of clay :shymuslima1:

Wasalaams

 

[Ahmed ibn Ibrahim]

Alhamdulilah, heheh, we're all so concerned for the sake of pleasing Allah SWT.

So to clarify: Images of anything are Haram inside of a Mosque.

................: Images of anything except living creatures are Halal inside the home.

Question: What about Written Words inside the Mosque? I've seen some Arabic/Islamic quotes framed up on the walls in some Mosques. Could a compramise for the Mosques under pressure by the Kufar governments (government regulations blah blah blah) be to just have the words "FIRE EXIT" illuminated by the appropriate exit, with no image of a little running dude included? ;D

Bears are alive animals, so the keyholder thing sounds a bit dodgey...

 

[samiha]

Question: What about Written Words inside the Mosque? I've seen some Arabic/Islamic quotes framed up on the walls in some Mosques. Could a compramise for the Mosques under pressure by the Kufar governments (government regulations blah blah blah) be to just have the words "FIRE EXIT" illuminated by the appropriate exit, with no image of a little running dude included? ;D

:salam2:

i think he said no to that...

we cant have signs that just have "exit" written on them because non-english-speaking people wont understand.

I don't know....

but as for the keychain or whatever... why not like... deform it? I know this sounds a little mean, but I think I read a hadith where it said that it didn't count if you somehow deformed the statue so that it didn't actually look like an animal or whatever...

i need to find that thing, I don't think i'm making sence... :shymuslima1:

wassalam.

 

[sunnisis]

As salaam alaikum,

Rememeber the deen is not here to be made difficult for us if that were the case people would leave their maoney on the doorsteps of the masjids (with the Grand Oppressor Queen Elizabeth printed all over them)

 

[nextman]

well thanks alot for all your replies, i appreciate it.in the end we just decided to cover the heads of the little men with green stickers so now it looks as if its a little headless man running away. in case any of you want to see it:

we cant have signs that just have "exit" written on them because non-english-speaking people wont understand.

i forgot to add that its regulation to have these specific signs. (for the above reason). anyway, alhamdullillah our mosque has turned out a huge success, we have more and more people attending everyday and are currently drawing up schedules to include weekly classes for the youth and also classes for the older people.(we already have daily classes for children)

thanks alot for all your help, may Allah reward you all for the knowledge you have given me and others reading this thread. Ameen!

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu Alaykum,

those images have no eyes or faces. They not same as an image which has eyes.

Wasalam

 

[nextman]

i agree but i dont think the objections really had anything to do with the images, it was more about politics - just another piece of propaganda from the other mosque. sad really isnt it.

 

[Abdul-Raheem]

i agree but i dont think the objections really had anything to do with the images, it was more about politics - just another piece of propaganda from the other mosque. sad really isnt it.

:salam2:

I agree and it is pretty sad to see. I remember once there was a massive argument (people shouting and everything) before jumm'a prayers. It had something to do with the board of trustees of the mosque as they were running some kind of election.

 

[nextman]

:salam2:

I agree and it is pretty sad to see. I remember once there was a massive argument (people shouting and everything) before jumm'a prayers. It had something to do with the board of trustees of the mosque as they were running some kind of election.

we had the exact same problem in our old mosque - thats why we've got a new 1. You have no idea of the problems we have here with mosque commitees. im not trying to put the old mosque down or anything but their comitee is absolutely corrupt, they see the mosque as a business not a place of worship. theyve saved up £215k over the last few years and have spent 1 penny trying to spread islam in our community. inshallah we will have a special dawah budget in our new mosque

the worst problems have yet to be mentioned