Just a curious questions for Muslims who are knowledgable about science...

[Abd Al-Karim]

Can anyone give any reasons why a mind like God would be able to step out of timelessness, and can anyone give any reasons why any non-mind inanimate process wouldn't? It would be reasonably easy to make an argument that as far as we know, a timeless, changeless eternal state couldn't errupt into time and a changing universe, but it would be impossible to demonstrate that a mind wouldn't also be trapped by eternity and changelessness aswell (also this eternal mind before the big bang faces infinite regression, for those who consider that an absurdity)

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamu'alaykum,

Welcome to TTI.

Belief really is not that complicated, you're over thinking things.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

I think my brain just exploded trying to make sense of that. And I still don't get it. Alhamdulillah, Islam is so so simple and easy to understand.

 

[Hajjerr]

Salam aleikum

From the islamic point of view, maybe this will be suitable for your question from what i read:

057.003 He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent: and He has full knowledge of all things.
When there was nothing, Allah T'ala was, and when there will be nothing, He will be. He is the most Manifest of all the manifest, for whatever manifests itself in the world, does only by His attributes and His works and His light. And He is the Most Hidden of all the hidden, for not only do the senses fail to percieve Him but the intellect and thought and imagination also cannot attain to His essence and reality.

The best commentary in this regard are the words of a supplication of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace and blessings). which Imam Ahmad, Muslim, Tirmidhi, and Baihaqi have related on the authority of Hadrat Abu Hurairah, and Hafiz Abu Ya'la Mosuli in his Musnad on the authority of Hadrat 'A'ishah:
"Antal Awwal, fa-laisa qablaka shai'in; wa Antal Akhir fa-laisa ba 'daka shai 'in; wa Antal Zahir, fa-laisa fauqaka shai in; wa Antal Batin, fa laisa dunaka shai'in. " "You alone are the First; none is before You; You alone are the Last: none is after You; You alone are the Exalted none is above You; You alone are the Hidden: none is more hidden than You. "

Here, the question arises: How does this accord with the immortality and eternal life of the dwellers of Paradise and Hell mentioned in the Qur'an when Allah alone is the Last and Eternal? Its answer has been provided by the Qur'an itself: "Everything is perishable except Allah Himself." (AI-Qasas: 88). In other words no creature is immortal in its personal capacity; if a thing exists or continues to exist, it does so because Allah keeps it so, and can exist only by His letting it exist; otherwise in its own capacity everything is perishable except Allah. Immortality in Heaven and Hell will not be bestowed upon somebody because he is immortal by himself, but because AIIah will grant him eternal life. The same is true of the angels: they are not immortal by themselves. When Allah willed they came into existence, and will continue to exist only as long as He wills.

Prophet (SAW) always made this dua,” O Allah! Make my Ilm profitable for me, give me knowledge which is profitable and add in my knowledge.” (Tirmidhi) “ O Allah! I seek your refuge from useless knowledge.” ( Muslim)

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Can anyone give any reasons why a mind like God would be able to step out of timelessness, and can anyone give any reasons why any non-mind inanimate process wouldn't? It would be reasonably easy to make an argument that as far as we know, a timeless, changeless eternal state couldn't errupt into time and a changing universe, but it would be impossible to demonstrate that a mind wouldn't also be trapped by eternity and changelessness aswell (also this eternal mind before the big bang faces infinite regression, for those who consider that an absurdity)

:salam2:

The error of the philosophers is to try to understand God by their standards and within the bounds of their human and physics limitations.

God is Creator and everything else is Creation and since He is the Creator he is not bound by the rules which govern creation and this includes space time continuum. The statement which we make in Islamic Aqeedah (doctrine) is that Allah transcends Creation and in the Qur'aan it is explicitly mentioned as

(42:11) [He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

In simpler words, Allah created physics and its laws of time and space but they don't apply to Allah otherwise the laws of physics will become superior to Allah.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

Sis Hajjerr, your post was an eye-opener. I never before thought about Allah's lasting forever, and the comparision of the people of Jannah lasting forever *through Allah*. The whole concept never occured to me. JazakAllahu Khayran.

 

[a_stranger]

We believe that Allah subhanahu wa taaala is the creator of anything else including minds, time...........all the being . Allah subhanahu wa taaala is most merciful , most wise , most just that is why we are not left to our weakness, and ignorance .

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ قَدْ جَاءكُم بُرْهَانٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ نُورًا مُّبِينًا


4:174 O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.

Study Quran with humble seeking hearts the noor(light) will shine within your heart.

 

[Hajjerr]

:salam2:

Sis Hajjerr, your post was an eye-opener. I never before thought about Allah's lasting forever, and the comparision of the people of Jannah lasting forever *through Allah*. The whole concept never occured to me. JazakAllahu Khayran.

Wa aleykum salam
Alhamdullilah if the reading was useful to you sister.

 

[uniqueskates]

AssalaamuAlaikum.

Sister Hajjerr. I am really really sorry. I send the wrong rep to you.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Your question is impossible to answer as it is stated because you have put terms with no definitions. There is no exact moment of when time started. The big bang has not exact time. Thus, it is pure speculation.

Time is construct developed by humans. We use time to help us with agriculture. We employ time as a tool. Our minds can not think beyond time. In a profound sense time is very physical.

So that which is beyond time can not step in/out of time. Even with the string theory it has limitations of time and space. Even discussing space travel we are trying to get from point A to point B. It is physical.

As a Muslim be careful when you are duped into writing : a mind like God....think about the ayat about the oceans and ink.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalamu Alaikum:

I just had a minute of understanding of your question. You have to accept either eternity of material (inanimate) or eternity of a Creator. Common sense in my case rules out eternity of material. And I undoubtedly accept eternity of our Lord unbounded by any measurable parameter.

Regards.

 

[strive-may-i]

Typical, nothing new in that statement. 'To accept there are limits to human faculty, that there is a creator', are the conclusions a sincere soul arrives at, after pondering over creation, the signs of creator. Seems like another attempt at equating creator to creation, because the individual cannot accept the alternative and correct statement from creator Allah himself -- "There is nothing like unto Him,"?

William Byers of Canada's Concordia University and author of The Blind Spot talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the nature of knowledge, science and mathematics. Byers argues that there is an inherent uncertainty about science and our knowledge that is frequently ignored. Byers contrasts a science of wonder with a science of certainty. He suggests that our knowledge of the physical world will always be incomplete because of the imperfection of models and human modes of thought relative to the complexity of the physical world. The conversation also looks at the implications of these ideas for teaching science and social science.

The Blind Spot: Science and the Crisis of Uncertainty, by William Byers

We always stumble and discover the limits to our understanding of the observed world, to try and figure the creator, is absurdness.