ketchup Halal/haram?

[Globalpeace]

Storm in a Teacup: Vinegar & NOT Alcohol!

Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

I beleive that we have gone off a tangent here!

Let me remind that we were talking about "Vinegar" & not "Alcohol"...

Chemically vinegar is a COMPLETELY different compound then alcohol; hence the deduction of my teacher & other Hanbali scholars as Vinegar being always Halal.


Please see the following description of vinegar and how it is different to Alcohol and how its preparation is different!

The word 'vinegar' comes from the French vin aigre, which merely means 'acidic wine'. The process that turns good wine into vinegar is called aerobic fermentation because, unlike alcoholic fermentation, it occurs in the presence of oxygen. You see, although alcohol prohibits the function of most microbes, a few resilient ones - in particular, those of the genus Acetobacter and Gluconobacter - actually draw energy from it. These consume the alcohol and oxygen, and give out water and acetic acid, which is also known as vinegar.” (Or CH3CH2OH + O2 -> CH3COOH + H2O,

The result of this fermentation is that the vinegar with which you dress your salad or drench your chips is, to all practical purposes, alcohol-free.

Scientifically, In my humble opinion the minute amounts of Alcohol left in normal Vinegar and trace amounts in Spirit Vinegar will have a different boiling tempertaure to vinegar...

Logically, yes you are right that all Vinegar will have minute amounts of Alcohol in it and yet we know from evidence that Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) used it, liked it and recommended it; so what are you guys getting at?


P.S: I think to take the example of vinegar & jump to conclusions about Brandy is preposterous and against the established principles of Science, Qur'aan and Sunnah i.e.:

1) Science: Vinegar is a different chemical to Alcohol
2) Science: You have to drink barrels of Vinegar to even feel like you are drinking Alcohol and before getting the feeling of being drunk; you will most likely die due to consuming so much of an acidic compound and your digestion system will shut down with so much acid intake!
3) Qur’aan & Sunnah: Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) used vinegar but not alcohol
4) Qur’aan & Sunnah: Alcohol is HARAM, vinegar is HALAL
5) Qur’aan & Sunnah: Alcohol intoxicates, vinegar doesn’t and if your vinegar is intoxicating you; you need to switch the brand!



If you wish to disagree with the above, please do so on scientific grounds and/or evidence from the Qur'aan and Sunnah, preferably the later!


No disrespect intended.

 

[amyaishazouaoui]

Alcohol etc

:salam2:
Back with the wolrd after 2 week and I am able to write some good stuff inshallah!!

Ok on this whole alcohol thing......I feel I need to help out a bit with my chemical expertise.

The alcohol which has been made Haraam for us is Ethanol...thats the stuff we get in alcoholic beverages such as vodka etc.
There are many different types of alcohol, methanol, propanol, steric alcohol, butanol,....anything ending in "ol" really. If you look on the back of your shampoo or baby wipes or mot things really, you will almost definitely find something ending in ol or have a name infront of the particular type of alcohol.

Again Ethanol is they only one that is Haraam.

I have found many people saying you cant use this or that or the other product becasue they contain alcohol. Yes they do contain alcohol but not the sort which is haraam which makes us drunk!!!!! Sadly it is jus their ignorance to the fact that there are different types of alcohol.

As for this whole vinegar thing........

Vinegar is chemically known as Ethanoic acid. The Ethan bit refers to the length of the carbon chain , or how big the molecule is. The ic acid bit refers to the bit on the end. it lactic acid, citric acid.

Ethanoic acid (vinegar) therefore belongs to a family of chemicals that do not act like alcohols, and is not an alcohol. You can therfore eat ketchup people so go and be happy.

And this proves that we must work hard to have knowlageable people in all areas of life within our Ummah!!!

If you would like any more details on the chemistry of carboxylic acids and alcohols please PM me, I will charge for consultation!!!!!!



a



Oh and just one last thing, If we examined the trace compunds in juice, friut, tap and botled water, there i probably just as much ethanol in those as there is in vinegar. Ever had hat ripe banana? melon, orange????? What do you think you taste when they start to turn??????? Its ethanol, formed by the fermentation of the suar in the fruit. Is there before yo can aste it!!!!

 

[Globalpeace]

Finally A chemist!

Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

I tried to deputise for you as a "C" grade Organic Chemistry Level 101, Microbiologist but no-one takes me seriously; so I will go back to doing what I do best which is to annoy the Moderators & Administrators...Something which I have become skilled and very good at lately!

:salam2:
Back with the wolrd after 2 week and I am able to write some good stuff inshallah!!

Ok on this whole alcohol thing......I feel I need to help out a bit with my chemical expertise.

The alcohol which has been made Haraam for us is Ethanol...thats the stuff we get in alcoholic beverages such as vodka etc.
There are many different types of alcohol, methanol, propanol, steric alcohol, butanol,....anything ending in "ol" really. If you look on the back of your shampoo or baby wipes or mot things really, you will almost definitely find something ending in ol or have a name infront of the particular type of alcohol.

Again Ethanol is they only one that is Haraam.

I have found many people saying you cant use this or that or the other product becasue they contain alcohol. Yes they do contain alcohol but not the sort which is haraam which makes us drunk!!!!! Sadly it is jus their ignorance to the fact that there are different types of alcohol.

As for this whole vinegar thing........

Vinegar is chemically known as Ethanoic acid. The Ethan bit refers to the length of the carbon chain , or how big the molecule is. The ic acid bit refers to the bit on the end. it lactic acid, citric acid.

Ethanoic acid (vinegar) therefore belongs to a family of chemicals that do not act like alcohols, and is not an alcohol. You can therfore eat ketchup people so go and be happy.

And this proves that we must work hard to have knowlageable people in all areas of life within our Ummah!!!

If you would like any more details on the chemistry of carboxylic acids and alcohols please PM me, I will charge for consultation!!!!!!



a

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2:
Back with the wolrd after 2 week and I am able to write some good stuff inshallah!!!!!!

:salam2:

Welcome back! Jazakee Allahu khayran for the valuable chemistry lesson. Very informative!!!

And this proves that we must work hard to have knowlageable people in all areas of life within our Ummah!!!!!!!

I couldn`t agree with you more.

Another example, and excuse me for going off topic, is when a lady aborts her fetus (my field of expertise). An Islamic scholar can give the general ruling regarding her bleeding (i.e. nifas blood vs. istihada blood), which her worshipping will depend on (i.e. is she allowed to pray and fast, or not).

The lady might think she was 15 weeks pregnant when she aborted. Based on that, the shaikh will tell her that she had a formed fetus and therefore the blood she is passing is nifas blood. Then she is told not to pray or fast until the bleeding stops. But according to the doctors, she was only 5 weeks pregnant (gestational age) and the embryo never grew more than that. In other words, the gestational age at which a lady aborts does not necessarily coincide with the gestational age the embryo/fetus stopped to grow or died. At 5 weeks, the embryo is not fully formed, and therefore the bleeding is considered istihada. So the lady should pray and fast.

A knowledgeable Muslim doctor aware of these rulings will be able to counsel the patient appropriately.

This is in no way undermining the stature of Muslim scholars :astag: :astag: , but illustrating the importance of a joint decision regarding these worldly events or issues.

If you would like any more details on the chemistry of carboxylic acids and alcohols please PM me, I will charge for consultation!!!!!!!!!!

You can charge our dear administrator!!

 

[TheHumbleWun]

:salam2:
Back with the wolrd after 2 week and I am able to write some good stuff inshallah!!

Ok on this whole alcohol thing......I feel I need to help out a bit with my chemical expertise.

The alcohol which has been made Haraam for us is Ethanol...thats the stuff we get in alcoholic beverages such as vodka etc.
There are many different types of alcohol, methanol, propanol, steric alcohol, butanol,....anything ending in "ol" really. If you look on the back of your shampoo or baby wipes or mot things really, you will almost definitely find something ending in ol or have a name infront of the particular type of alcohol.

Again Ethanol is they only one that is Haraam.

I have found many people saying you cant use this or that or the other product becasue they contain alcohol. Yes they do contain alcohol but not the sort which is haraam which makes us drunk!!!!! Sadly it is jus their ignorance to the fact that there are different types of alcohol.

As for this whole vinegar thing........

Vinegar is chemically known as Ethanoic acid. The Ethan bit refers to the length of the carbon chain , or how big the molecule is. The ic acid bit refers to the bit on the end. it lactic acid, citric acid.

Ethanoic acid (vinegar) therefore belongs to a family of chemicals that do not act like alcohols, and is not an alcohol. You can therfore eat ketchup people so go and be happy.

And this proves that we must work hard to have knowlageable people in all areas of life within our Ummah!!!

If you would like any more details on the chemistry of carboxylic acids and alcohols please PM me, I will charge for consultation!!!!!!



a



Oh and just one last thing, If we examined the trace compunds in juice, friut, tap and botled water, there i probably just as much ethanol in those as there is in vinegar. Ever had hat ripe banana? melon, orange????? What do you think you taste when they start to turn??????? Its ethanol, formed by the fermentation of the suar in the fruit. Is there before yo can aste it!!!!

I am impressed with your scientific knowledge. Your consultation services would bring "astronomical" profits if we merged as a new partnership with my accounting and tax services.

walaakum salaam

 

[suumaya]

Is there anything that doesn't have alcohol or pork in this county!!!!!!!! i think we eat all kinds of haram things without not knowing...

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Is there anything that doesn't have alcohol or pork in this county!!!!!!!! i think we eat all kinds of haram things without not knowing...

My dear sister,

There is no need to get mad or frustrated. You should do the best you can in everything. I know humans are not perfect, but we should strive hard towards Allah. You do this by obtaining knowledge and being educated. As stated sister "amyaishazouaoui" ketchup is permissable. It was interesting and valuable input. I am sure many of us learned alot on this topic. Islam does not constrain or squeeze you in a box, it's a way of life. Sure some of us might be doing or eating haram food. Only way we learn from our mistakes is through knowledge. Strive to the best of your ability, that is all that counts. May Allah guide us all towards the right path.

look at this wisdom.....
A man came to Iyas Ibn Mu'awiyah, a Muslim judge famous for his wisdom and the following conversation took place between them:

Man: What is the Islamic ruling regarding wine?

Judge: It is Haram (Forbidden).

Man: How about water?

Judge: It is Halal (Permissible).

Man: How about dates and grapes?

Judge: They are Halal.

Man: Why is it that all these ingredients are halal, and yet when you combine them, they become haram?



The judge looked at the man and said: If I hit you with this handful of dirt, do you think it would hurt you?

Man: It would not.

Judge: How about if I hit you with this handful of straw?

Man: It would not hurt me.

Judge: How about a handful of water?

Man: It surely would not hurt me.

Judge: How about if I MIX them, and let them DRY to become a BRICK, and then hit you with it, would it hurt you?

Man: It would hurt me and might even kill me!

Judge: The same reasoning applies to what you asked me!!


walaakum salaam

 

[virtualeye]

Is there anything that doesn't have alcohol or pork in this county!!!!!!!! i think we eat all kinds of haram things without not knowing...

And that is why Muslims are told not to live among nonbelievers except they want to invite and inspire them about Islam. This is told in Quran and Hadith.

So, in current senario, It is infact very difficult to avoid all Haraam things while living under the majority of nonbelievers rule. That is actually the tough test. And that is why the pious people near before the judgment day will get much more reward than the pious people in the old times, because it is much more tougher to stay modest and pious.

Example:
In the old times, It was very hard thing to listen to songs because for that purpose you had to go at some place, possibily pay to hire a singer and then listen the song for just one time without any re-play.

And now? You can listen songs for free, or at very cheap 'one-time' payment for an MP3 player and you can re-play them infinetely.

To see the nakedness, one had to go to whorehouse in the old times. Now? porrnography is at one click from you.

In old times, it was difficult to find someone to do adultry with. Now there are millions of profiles of the people on the internet who are just looking for datings.


Please try to comprehend that the situation will get worse with the passage of time so our tough test will go tougher too. And I pray, May Allah Bless us with his guidance and save us from evil.

Allah knows the best and I know very little.


Wassalaam,
VE

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

Assalamu alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

Before sister Amy gave us the valuable chemistry lesson , I sent an e-mail to Heinz asking them frankly if their ketchup contains any alcohol, even a slight percentage. I would like to share with you their answer that I just received:

Dear Consumer,

Thank you for visiting the Heinz website.

As per your inquiry, Heinz ketchup does not contain any alcohol.


Once again thank you for choosing Heinz.


Sincerely,

********** (name removed)
Consumer Service Representative
H.J Heinz Company of Canada Ltd.
Réprésentante du Service au Consommateur
Heinz Companie du Canada

 

[Karima]

Alhamdulillah!

Now, it's ok to have french fries and ketchup!!!! (Unless someone disects the grease oil into another 3-day discussion.....)

Ok, we are all here to learn and know what is the right thing to do....is there is anything to be aware of in grease of french fries....???

Salam

 

[mohannad92]

why have you lost your mind... what if it does have alcohol in it?? purify and perfect your daily actions for Allah swt before its too late to do so man.