Masbahah (Prayer Beads)

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eminbey

信得過…是我的名字
Masbahah (Prayer Beads)


Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in Al-Silsilat al-Da’eefah (1/110), where he quotes the (weak) Hadith “What a good reminder is the subhah [masbahah]":

”In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons: Firstly, the subhah [masbahah (prayer beads)] is bid’ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (SAW). It happened after that, so how could he (SAW) have encouraged his Sahabah to do something that was unknown to them?

The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid’ wa’l-Nahy ‘anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: ‘Ibn Mas’ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, “You think you are better than the Sahabah, but you are following unjustified bid’ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (SAW)!”’ Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi’een.

* Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahmatullahi alay) said in al-Fataawa (22/187): “Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs (prayer beads) in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (SAW) nor his Companions (RU) used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: “Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak.” Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones.
 

samiha

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Staff member
:salam2:

JazaakAllah khayr for sharing. Honestly people sometimes put so much emphasis into the prayer beads they almost make it like worship. I remember being scolded for putting them on the floor, or wearing it around my neck! Astagfirullah we have to be careful in such issues, and what better thing to have our hands testify on our behalf when we count upon our hands? SubhanAllaah.

wasalam
 

eminbey

信得過…是我的名字
Subhanallah
Allah says:" On the Day when their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions." surah Al Nur THE LIGHT verse 24


""On that Day God will pay them back (all) their just dues, and they will realise that God is the (very) Truth, that makes all things manifest."surah Al Nur THE LIGHT verse 25
 

DanyalSAC

Junior Member
One afternoon after Jumuah prayer a couple brothers & I stopped off at the halal market near the masjid. I asked if I could see some of the masbahah hanging behind the counter. As soon as I said that, one of my brothers made a hissing intake of breath... I asked him what was wrong, and all he said was "bid'ah...!" so I never purchased the item. Later on I noticed just how many brothers do exactly what the quote above mentioned. These brothers wear LARGE beads, about the size of olives, draped around their necks. During the khutbah they rattle them, pass them from hand to hand, make a big show of clicking on them so all those around them can see how pious they are.
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
:salam2:

Nowadays I make bracelets with the old ones we had and some new ones people gave us as gifts without us realizing =D Many of them are very pretty and they look really nice lol

wasalam
 

daywalker

Junior Member
make a big show of clicking on them so all those around them can see how pious they are.
Have husn dhan(having a good opinion) inshallah :)
”In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons: Firstly, the subhah [masbahah (prayer beads)] is bid’ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (SAW).

From Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas that he entered with the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) upon a woman and between her hands was a Nawaa (seeds, pebbles) or Hasaa (stones or pebbles) that she was [counting] tasbeeh with…"
This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At-Tirmithi who said, "Hasan Ghareeb from the hadeeth of Sa'ad". It is also reported by Imaam Abu Daawood in his Sunan, Imaam An Nasaa'i, Ibn Hibbaan, and Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said. "Its isnaad is Saheeh, and [they i.e. Bukhaari and muslim] did not report it" and Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.
It happened after that, so how could he (SAW) have encouraged his Sahabah to do something that was unknown to them?
It isnt matter of encouraging, but matter of being permissble or not. And using masabeeh is mentioned by various sahaba(rd). If it would be bidah, then it would be haram.

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From Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas that he entered with the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) upon a woman and between her hands was a Nawaa (seeds, pebbles) or Hasaa (stones or pebbles) that she was [counting] tasbeeh with…"

This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At-Tirmithi who said, "Hasan Ghareeb from the hadeeth of Sa'ad". It is also reported by Imaam Abu Daawood in his Sunan, Imaam An Nasaa'i, Ibn Hibbaan, and Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said. "Its isnaad is Saheeh, and [they i.e. Bukhaari and muslim] did not report it" and Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.


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From Safiyyah who said, " The Messenger of Allah (saaws) entered upon me and between my hands were four thousand Nawaah (stones or seeds) [that I was making] tasbeeh with. The Nabi said, "You are making tasbeeh with this?! Shall I not teach you that which is greater than this tasbeeh?!" So I said, "Teach me!" So He said, "Say, Subhaan Allah 'Adada Khaliqih".

This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At Tirmithi who said after it, "Ghareeb, I only know the hadeeth of Safiyyah by this direction…"

It was also reported by Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said, "[This] Hadeeth is Saheeh and they did not report it." And Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was also authenticated by Imaam As-Suyooti.
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Imaam Ash-Shawkaani states in his Nayl Al Awtaar that these two ahadeeth are proof of the permissibility of counting the Tasbeeh with seeds, stones, or the likes and that is because of the approval of the Nabi (sallallahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam) of these two women using them.

Imaam Ahmad in his "Zuhd" says: "'Affaan informed us, Abdul Waahid ibn Ziyaad informed us from Yunus ibn 'Ubayd, from His mother who said, "I saw Abaa Safiyyah – [who] was a man from the Sahabah of the Messenger of Allah (saaws) and he was a treasurer – She said he would make Tasbeeh with stones."


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Ibn Sa'ad reports from Hukaym ibn Daylami that Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas would make Tasbeeh with stones. [At Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]


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Ibn Sa'ad said in At-Tabaqaat, Abdillah ibn Musaa informed us, Israa'eel informed us, from Jaabir from his female servant from Faatimah bint Al Husayn ibn Ali ibn Abi Taalib that she would make Tasbeeh with a string with knots in it. [Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]


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Imaam Abdillah ibn Imaam Ahmad reports through Abu Hurayrah in Zawaa'id Az Zuhd from Abu Hurayrah that he had a rope with a hundred knots in it, and he would not sleep until he had made Tasbeeh with it.


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Imaam Ahmad reports in Az-Zuhd from Al Qaasim ibn Abdur Rahmaan who said that Abi Dardaa' had seeds from pressed dates in a bag. When he had made morning Salah, he would remove one by one from it (the bag), making Tasbeeh with them, until they had finished. [Az-Zuhd page 205]


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Ibn Sa'ad reports that Abu Hurayrah would make Tasbeeh with a collection of seeds (or pebbles). [ Tabaqaat 106/3 or 346/6]


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Imaam Ad-Daylami reports in his Musnad Al Firdaws from the way of Zaynab bint Sulaymaan ibn 'Ali, from Umm Al Hasan bint Ja'far, from her father, from her grandfather, from Ali ibn Abi Taalib marfoo'an: "Yes! Al Muththakir [I reminder you to use] the Subhah!" [Musnad Al Firdaws bi Ma'thoor Al Khitaab]
 

hana*

Junior Member
im glad someone brought this up and made it clear to others that it is not a bida'ah (unless you live in saudi arabia, by which practically everything is bidaah there!) why would something that aids the rememberence of Allah be bidaah (rhetorical question)
 

eminbey

信得過…是我的名字
im glad someone brought this up and made it clear to others that it is not a bida'ah (unless you live in saudi arabia, by which practically everything is bidaah there!) why would something that aids the rememberence of Allah be bidaah (rhetorical question)

sister i totally understand you're emotions towards what could be a worship,
but emotions must be restricted by Quran and sunnah,
scholars of osool adden have a rule saying alasl fi alibada attawkif ,means when something is related with worship we should stop until we find that the prophet of allah pbuh did it
and nobody could deny doesn't matter what his religion is that du'a' (prayer)
is a sort of worshiping Allah
why didn't the prophet of allah tells us about it?
answer N° One the prophet pbuh didn't accomplished his mission....and this is far from being true and Kufur at the same time.
Answer N° two This is not from Our deen( religion) why should we do it?

and later inshallah I'll bring you some autentic evidences trying to inform you more about the masbaha
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
im glad someone brought this up and made it clear to others that it is not a bida'ah (unless you live in saudi arabia, by which practically everything is bidaah there!) why would something that aids the rememberence of Allah be bidaah (rhetorical question)

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh sister,

Unfortunately your rhetorical question warrants an answer because its eliminating a big part of our Deen and contradicting what the Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu alayhi wa salam) came with. I am sure you did not mean to do so, but Bid'ah is something the Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu alayhi wa salam) warned Muslims not to do, and this is mentioned in many hadith. - We as Muslims must stick to the Sunnah, the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu alayhi wa salam) and not deviate from that.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Aa'isha(Radhiyallahu anha) reported Muhammad(Salallahu alayhi wa salam) said: "Whoever innovates into this affair of ours something that we have not commanded it is to be rejected" (Bukhari and Muslim)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]The Sahaba’s Opinion Concerning Bid’ah
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Amr ibn Yahya narrated his father told him, "We used to sit at Abdullah Ibn Masood’s house before Fajr prayer. If he exited we would follow him to the musjid. Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari then came to us and asked us, ‘Did Abu Abur-Rahman (Abdullah Ibn Masood) come out yet?’ We said, ‘No’, so he sat with us till he emerged. We all stood up when he exited.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] He (Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari) said, ‘O Abu Adur-Rahman, I just saw something which I did not recognize, and I did not see, all thanks to Allah, but good.’ He (Ibn Masood) said, ‘What is it?’ He (Abu Musa) said, ‘If you live you will see it. I saw in the musjid people sitting in circles waiting for the prayer. In each circle there is a leader, and they have stones in their hands. He (the leader) would say, ‘Say Takbir (Allahu Akbar) 100 times’, so they say Takbir 100 times. He (the leader) would then say, ‘Say Tahil (La Ilaha Illa Allah) 100 times’, so they say Tahil 100 times. He (the leader) would then say, ‘Say Tasbih (Subhana Allah) 100 times’, so they say Tasbih 100 times.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Ibn Masood said, ‘Did you not order them to count their evil deeds, and guarantee them that none of their good deeds will be lost?’ Then he and us left till we reached one of the circles. Then he (Ibn Masood) stood next to the circle and said, ‘What are you doing?’ They said, ‘O Abu Abdur-Rahamn, (these are) stones that we count our Takbir, Tahil, tasbih, and Tah’mid (Alhumdu’lillah).’
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

Ibn Masood said, ‘Count your evil deeds, for I guarantee that none of your good deeds will be lost. What is the matter with you, O nation of Muhammad? How soon you come to your destruction! The companions (of Muhammad) are still many, these are his clothes still not worn out and his cookware did not break yet. By whom my soul is in His Hands, you are either following a religion better than Muhammad’s or followers of a way of evil.’
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

They said, ‘By Allah, O Abu Abdur-Rahman, we sought only what is good.’ Ibn Masood said, ‘Many people seek good, but they do not reach it. The Messenger told us some people who read the Qur’an will not have the Qur’an leave their throats (to their hearts). By Allah I do not know if most of you are from them.’ Then he left them. Amr Ibn Salamah said, ‘We saw most of those people fighting against us, in the battle of Nahrawan with the Khawarij.’" (Tirmidhi)
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

Once a man sneezed in the presence of Ibn Umar and said, "Praise be to Allah and peace be upon the Messenger.’ Ibn Umar chastised the man and said, "The Prophet has only taught us to say Alhumdu’lillah." (Tirmidhi)
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Read More here:
Introduction to what is (Bidah) Innovation


As for the Masbahah, then there is a difference of opinion between the Scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah as to whether it is an innovation.

However, what is clear is that it is better to use our fingers, that this is how the Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salam) used to remember Allah subhana wa ta'ala, with tasbeeh(to say subhanAllah) tahmeed (to say Alhamdulillah), Tahleel (to say la ilaha ilallah).


The Following is from IslamQA, it has the Fatawa of the best of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah of recent times and should suffice for any intelligent Muslim:

Praise be to Allaah.


Some scholars say that it is permissible to use the masbahah, but they say that it is preferable to do tasbeeh on one’s fingers; others say that it is bid’ah (reprehensible innovation).


Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): “Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: “Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak.” Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers.” Then he (may Allaah have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islam, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed.


Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (al-Liqa’ al-Maftooh, 3/30) was asked whether using the masbahah for tasbeeh is bid’ah, and his reply was: “It is better not to do tasbeeh with the masbahah, but it is not bid’ah, because there is a basis for it, which is the fact that some of the Sahaabah did tasbeeh with pebbles. But the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught that tasbeeh with the fingers is better, as he said, ‘Count with the fingertips, for they will be made to speak.’ Doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is not haraam or bid’ah, but it is better not to do it, because the one who does tasbeeh with the masbahah has shunned something better. Using the masbahah may also be contaminated with some element of showing off, because we see some people carrying masbahahs that contain a thousand beads, as if they are telling people, ‘Look at me, I do a thousand tasbeehs!’ Secondly, those who use the masbahah for tasbeeh are usually absent-minded and not focused, so you see them doing tasbeeh with the beads, but their gaze is wandering all over the place, which indicates that they are not really concentrating. It is better to do tasbeeh with one’s fingers, preferably using the right hand rather than the left, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to count his tasbeeh on his right hand. If a person counts his tasbeeh using both hands, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better to use the right hand only.”


Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in Al-Silsilat al-Da’eefah (1/110), where he quotes the (weak) hadeeth “What a good reminder is the subhah [masbahah],”


“In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons:


Firstly, the subhah [masbahah] is bid’ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). It happened after that, so how could he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) have encouraged his Sahaabah to do something that was unknown to them? The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid’ wa’l-Nahy ‘anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: ‘Ibn Mas’ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, “You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid’ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)!”’ Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi’een.
Secondly, it goes against the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said, ‘I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) counting the tasbeeh on his right hand.’”


He also said (1/117): “If there is only one bad thing about the masbahah, which it is that it takes the place of the Sunnah of counting on the fingers, even though all are agreed that counting on the fingers is preferable, then that is bad enough. How rarely I see people counting their tasbeeh on their fingers!


Moreover, people have invented so many sophisticated ways of following this bid’ah, so you see the followers of one of the [Sufi] tareeqahs wearing the masbahah around their necks! Or some of them counting with the beads whilst talking or listening to you! Or another one – the like of whom I have not seen for some time – riding his bicycle through a street crowded with people, with the masbahah in one of his hands! They are showing the people that they are not distracted from the remembrance of Allaah for even an instant, but in many cases this bid’ah is a cause of their neglecting what is obligatory (waajib). It has happened many times – to others as well as myself – that when I greet one of these people with salaam, they answer only by waving and not by saying the words of the greeting. The bad results of this bid’ah are innumerable, and no one can say it better than the poet:


‘All goodness is in following that which went before (the salaf)
All badness is in the innovations of those who came later.’”

And Allaah knows best.

assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
 
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