Frank_H_Smith
New Revert 2010
As Salamu 'Alaykum,
I read where even among individuals with the same native language, the mis-communication rate is well over 50%. But, I may have misunderstood what I read. Because the rate of mis-communication is so high in person, among individuals who have the same native language, I strongly dislike talking on the phone. Perhaps it's the lack of visual clues like proximics, kinetics, an micro-expressions. That being said, I hope this is not misunderstood.
In the Christian denomination in which I was ordained, the doctrines covered relationships between men and woman.
1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
The spouse had more authority or rights than the parents.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
However, and here is where I may get in trouble with the sisters:
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
In all candor, much of what I have learned, I have learned from women. I always valued my wife's opinion and considered her input when making a decision. However, I always made the final decision. I am blessed in that my wife could be the woman being discussed in Proverbs 31:
Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
But, I believed it was my responsibility to provide for her and my children and her responsibility to manage the household. I would usually turn my check over to her and she would make sure all the expenses were paid. She knew what was need at the house better than I. I provided and protected her and actually saved her life once and defended her honor on a few occasions against men who didn't understand boundaries.
Unfortunately, even in the western civilizations it is becoming more difficult for a single income family to survive.
Al Qur'an is full of Ayat that state clearly that women are equal with men. That a believer is a believer regardless of gender. That men are to respect women.
So, my questions is, am I wrong in believing that a man should have authority over his wife as Allah has authority over us all? Isn't a man to protect, provide, and care for his wife or in some cultures wives with love and strength? Modesty is becoming a thing of the past in all cultures and religions. My previous religion taught that a woman was to have long hair.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1Co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
I realize that this is Christian Dogma and not necessarily the original teaching delivered by Adam through Abraham, Moses, Yeshua, and Muhammad (PBUT).
But, I did read where Khadija hid Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) under her cloak from the being who was causing Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) to grow pale and tremble. When she asked him if the being was still there. He (PBUH) replied that he(PBUH) no longer felt or seen him. She then told him (PBUH) that it was not a lewd jinn, nor a demon for he respected women's chastity. It can only be an angel of Allah.
My point is that masculinity is becoming a dirty word in the politically correct society and homosexuality and androgynous appearance is being propagated by the news, politicians, and entertainment media.
I think men should be masculine and women feminine and each has a different role.
I hope this isn't offensive to the Sisters and I must concede that in the time of Deborah Paul would have had a hard time since we can read in Judges
Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Jdg 4:5 And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Jdg 4:6 And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
Jdg 4:7 And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
Jdg 4:8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
Jdg 4:9 And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
And, if it had not been for Esther the Jews would have suffered the fate of Haman.
Est 9:24 Because Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had devised against the Jews to destroy them, and had cast Pur, that is, the lot, to consume them, and to destroy them;
Est 9:25 But when Esther came before the king, he commanded by letters that his wicked device, which he devised against the Jews, should return upon his own head, and that he and his sons should be hanged on the gallows.
So, please keep in mind that I am not a male Chauvinist nor a misogynist and if it sounds like it in any of my posts, it is just that I believe that Allah did not intend for women and men to look or act the same. Each compliments the other. I don't know Islam's position on women as teachers of men and would appreciate it if any of the brothers or sisters could give me Surah and Ayah (Chapter and Verse) or Hadith or Sunnah.
Subhan'Allah!
I read where even among individuals with the same native language, the mis-communication rate is well over 50%. But, I may have misunderstood what I read. Because the rate of mis-communication is so high in person, among individuals who have the same native language, I strongly dislike talking on the phone. Perhaps it's the lack of visual clues like proximics, kinetics, an micro-expressions. That being said, I hope this is not misunderstood.
In the Christian denomination in which I was ordained, the doctrines covered relationships between men and woman.
1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
The spouse had more authority or rights than the parents.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
However, and here is where I may get in trouble with the sisters:
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
In all candor, much of what I have learned, I have learned from women. I always valued my wife's opinion and considered her input when making a decision. However, I always made the final decision. I am blessed in that my wife could be the woman being discussed in Proverbs 31:
Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
But, I believed it was my responsibility to provide for her and my children and her responsibility to manage the household. I would usually turn my check over to her and she would make sure all the expenses were paid. She knew what was need at the house better than I. I provided and protected her and actually saved her life once and defended her honor on a few occasions against men who didn't understand boundaries.
Unfortunately, even in the western civilizations it is becoming more difficult for a single income family to survive.
Al Qur'an is full of Ayat that state clearly that women are equal with men. That a believer is a believer regardless of gender. That men are to respect women.
So, my questions is, am I wrong in believing that a man should have authority over his wife as Allah has authority over us all? Isn't a man to protect, provide, and care for his wife or in some cultures wives with love and strength? Modesty is becoming a thing of the past in all cultures and religions. My previous religion taught that a woman was to have long hair.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1Co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
I realize that this is Christian Dogma and not necessarily the original teaching delivered by Adam through Abraham, Moses, Yeshua, and Muhammad (PBUT).
But, I did read where Khadija hid Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) under her cloak from the being who was causing Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) to grow pale and tremble. When she asked him if the being was still there. He (PBUH) replied that he(PBUH) no longer felt or seen him. She then told him (PBUH) that it was not a lewd jinn, nor a demon for he respected women's chastity. It can only be an angel of Allah.
My point is that masculinity is becoming a dirty word in the politically correct society and homosexuality and androgynous appearance is being propagated by the news, politicians, and entertainment media.
I think men should be masculine and women feminine and each has a different role.
I hope this isn't offensive to the Sisters and I must concede that in the time of Deborah Paul would have had a hard time since we can read in Judges
Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Jdg 4:5 And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Jdg 4:6 And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
Jdg 4:7 And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
Jdg 4:8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
Jdg 4:9 And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
And, if it had not been for Esther the Jews would have suffered the fate of Haman.
Est 9:24 Because Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had devised against the Jews to destroy them, and had cast Pur, that is, the lot, to consume them, and to destroy them;
Est 9:25 But when Esther came before the king, he commanded by letters that his wicked device, which he devised against the Jews, should return upon his own head, and that he and his sons should be hanged on the gallows.
So, please keep in mind that I am not a male Chauvinist nor a misogynist and if it sounds like it in any of my posts, it is just that I believe that Allah did not intend for women and men to look or act the same. Each compliments the other. I don't know Islam's position on women as teachers of men and would appreciate it if any of the brothers or sisters could give me Surah and Ayah (Chapter and Verse) or Hadith or Sunnah.
Subhan'Allah!
Seriously, I am proud of both of them. They grew into men guided by their principles. Unfortunately, the younger one is a clone of me at from 4 to eighteen. Which would be alright except he is 34 (I always make him older unintentionally). He's on the willful side. My father till the day he died would say that I couldn't be made to do anything since the age of 4. The older son is settled and married. Still no grand babies to spoil and after 15 years, it isn't looking like there is going to be any from that branch of the tree.