Mumin01
Junior Member
As Salamo Alekum, i just wanted to say something about a dhikr gathering ( i dont know the proper name) that i attended and i just wanted to point out somethings and more or less give my opinion insha Allah
When someone asks what is "dhikr"? your natural response should be " The rememberance of Allah, Al Hakim"
which is correct but in what ways is dhikr limited to? Does dhikr have to be gathering and chanting and shouting religious phrases?
When you read Quran doesnt that give you dhikr?
When you see various signs of Allah, Al Aziz doesnt that give you dhikr?
When you contemplate on all the blessings one has that are given to him by his Lord doesnt that give him dhikr?
So why are people joining Sufi brotherhoods in order to do "dhikr"?
As i stated earlier dhikr does have to include chanting, Allah Subhanahu wa Talaa can also be remembered in even the most insignificant tasks.
I ask you, our dearly beloved Prophet Muhammad Sal Allahu alyhi was Salam was a the greatest Muslim and worshipper of Allah azzawajal did he need to result to organized meetings of chanting in order to remember his Lord
Another thing which brought my concern was the people chanting looked foolish, this one man beside me looked as if he was spasing out, another man was shaking his head back in forth as well, everyone in my opinion looked ridiculous. I see more dignity in a man performing salaat then in someone shaking spontaneously remembering Allah subhanahu wa talaa
Something that also made me nervous was how much the students revered their imam, im all for loving, respecting, and obeying our religious teachers but this was really wierd to me, before speaking to the imam one on one you had to basically kiss his hand, which i learned from the people i went with there that it was a sign of respect, fair enough, but when i saw women doing the same thing it really got me wondering
It was narrated that Maqil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: " For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him."Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh
I know that in this religion, no shiekh, imam, or religious leader can claim that they are "above" what the Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alyhi wa salam told us to do
Concerning the imam student relationship, i see that students bascially more or less listne to their imam and no one less, its to say that, my imam is always right and ur imam is always wrong, i wont listen to your shiekh unless he has the same views as my shiekh
my favorite shiekh is Shiekh Muhammad al Yacoubi but that does not mean that i dont listen to any other shiekh besides him. i like listening to a lot of other people as well like Shiekh Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir, Abdal-Hakim Murad. So it really diturbs me how they have abosulte devotion to their imams and you have to basically pledge your alligiance to them
The imam said that wahabi leaders are ignorant for calling these meetings bidda because of in these dhikr circles they break free from the dunya and remember Allah azaawajal, But dont we do the same thing for salaat? Dont we stop what were doing and "disconnect" from the dunya in order to worhsip and therefore remember Allah Subhanahu wa talaa?
im not here to argue if this is bidda ect. I am not saying are brothers doing this are ignorant or heedless. Im all for dhikr jammaah ( without the spazing) but i ask you is it really necessary to join a sufi order in order to attain "sprituality"? sufis argue that they remember Allah subhanahu wa talaa 24/7 365, thats good for you, but you do have yo call your self a "sufi" because of that? I dont know maybe im unlearned and dont have a complete understanding of this concept. I hope what i typed causes no fitna or animosity in any way because its not my intention to do so, just giving my 2 cents
Salaam
When someone asks what is "dhikr"? your natural response should be " The rememberance of Allah, Al Hakim"
which is correct but in what ways is dhikr limited to? Does dhikr have to be gathering and chanting and shouting religious phrases?
When you read Quran doesnt that give you dhikr?
When you see various signs of Allah, Al Aziz doesnt that give you dhikr?
When you contemplate on all the blessings one has that are given to him by his Lord doesnt that give him dhikr?
So why are people joining Sufi brotherhoods in order to do "dhikr"?
As i stated earlier dhikr does have to include chanting, Allah Subhanahu wa Talaa can also be remembered in even the most insignificant tasks.
I ask you, our dearly beloved Prophet Muhammad Sal Allahu alyhi was Salam was a the greatest Muslim and worshipper of Allah azzawajal did he need to result to organized meetings of chanting in order to remember his Lord
Another thing which brought my concern was the people chanting looked foolish, this one man beside me looked as if he was spasing out, another man was shaking his head back in forth as well, everyone in my opinion looked ridiculous. I see more dignity in a man performing salaat then in someone shaking spontaneously remembering Allah subhanahu wa talaa
Something that also made me nervous was how much the students revered their imam, im all for loving, respecting, and obeying our religious teachers but this was really wierd to me, before speaking to the imam one on one you had to basically kiss his hand, which i learned from the people i went with there that it was a sign of respect, fair enough, but when i saw women doing the same thing it really got me wondering
It was narrated that Maqil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: " For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him."Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh
I know that in this religion, no shiekh, imam, or religious leader can claim that they are "above" what the Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alyhi wa salam told us to do
Concerning the imam student relationship, i see that students bascially more or less listne to their imam and no one less, its to say that, my imam is always right and ur imam is always wrong, i wont listen to your shiekh unless he has the same views as my shiekh
my favorite shiekh is Shiekh Muhammad al Yacoubi but that does not mean that i dont listen to any other shiekh besides him. i like listening to a lot of other people as well like Shiekh Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir, Abdal-Hakim Murad. So it really diturbs me how they have abosulte devotion to their imams and you have to basically pledge your alligiance to them
The imam said that wahabi leaders are ignorant for calling these meetings bidda because of in these dhikr circles they break free from the dunya and remember Allah azaawajal, But dont we do the same thing for salaat? Dont we stop what were doing and "disconnect" from the dunya in order to worhsip and therefore remember Allah Subhanahu wa talaa?
im not here to argue if this is bidda ect. I am not saying are brothers doing this are ignorant or heedless. Im all for dhikr jammaah ( without the spazing) but i ask you is it really necessary to join a sufi order in order to attain "sprituality"? sufis argue that they remember Allah subhanahu wa talaa 24/7 365, thats good for you, but you do have yo call your self a "sufi" because of that? I dont know maybe im unlearned and dont have a complete understanding of this concept. I hope what i typed causes no fitna or animosity in any way because its not my intention to do so, just giving my 2 cents
Salaam
