Originar sin? Which is the truth?

[IslamicPearl]

Salam brothers and sister.

There is one subject to which i cudnt find an answer on this site.
The Bible says that Eva eat from the apple and Adam was attracted by Eva to eat from it. I dont know what islam say about this. Was this true...was it an apple or is it just a way of expressing the intercourse..as in she attracted him to do that wihtout being married.

And if this is true it doesnt make sense to say that every new borned female carries wiht her the originar sin..as christianity says, because every perons is different and responsable for his/her sins.

Can anyone light me up please? Thankyou.

 

[Imad]

Walaikoem esalaam warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear sister/brother,

Dear brother/sister when we are searching for answer we have to look into the Quraan and the sunna of our prophet Sallalahu 3alaihi wassalem. I will give you some verses from the Quraan and ahadieth from the sunna. Afterwards i want from you an answer on your Question.

----------------------------------
The Quraan:

Allah says: " And We said: 'O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight, of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the wrong-doers.'" [al-Baqarah 2:35]

"O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you will be distressed." [Ta-Ha 20:117]

"Then Shaytaan (Satan) whispered to him, saying : 'O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away?' Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts became manifest to them, and they began to cover themselves with the leaves of the Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray." [Ta-Ha 20:120-121]

Adam said "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." [al-A'raaf 7:23]

Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful." [al-Baqarah 2:37]

Allah says also: "And He it is Who accepts repentance from His slaves, and forgives sins, and He knows what you do." [al-Shoora 42:25]

Allah says "… and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another…" [Quran 6:164].


The sunna:

Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah alone), but his parents make him a Jewish, a Christian or Magian." [Reported by Imams Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The Prophet says: "The pen is raised for three (meaning: there is no obligation upon three): one who is sleeping until he wakens, the child until he becomes an adult, and one who is insane until he becomes sane."
------------------

Dear sister/ brother now i want from you an answer on your Questions. Your Questions are 1) " Does the sin have to do with intercourse before marriage?"
2) "is there any original sin in islam?"
3) "does a baby bears the sin of Adam and Hawaa" ( Eva)?

I think you can answer now this three Questions. Please i will wait on your answers. I will go insha Allah more in detail if you cann't answer the questions.

Take Care

wassalmoelaikoem warahmatollahi wabaratuh

 

[Noor to shine]

:salam2: sister
Allah swt (our creator ) is absolutly just that is why he stated in Quran:

6:164 Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul draws the meed of its acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards Allah. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."

17:15 Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning).

35:18 Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens if one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.

39:7 If ye reject ((Allah)), Truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not ingratitude from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your Return, when He will tell you the truth of all that ye did (in this life). for He knoweth well all that is in (men's) hearts.

Quran

 

[Praise2Allah]

Salam Alaikom. The original sin is rejected at many times in the OT, one example is:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son (the progeny of Adam) shall not bear the iniquity of the father (Adam), neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die." Ezekiel 18:20-21

(emphasis is mine of course)

 

[Ayep]

Walaykom salam everyone,

If there are no objections I would like to add some points. Since our Muslim bros and sisters have presented the Quran's explaination, I will present my research from the bible about the original sin.

The Doctrine of Atonement and Original sin was not Esa (alaihisalam) or Jesus teachings but was concocted by Paul(whom had never met Jesus, being a Jew, he persecuted early Christians, disagreed with the disciples of Jesus and abolished what was taught by Jesus and the Mosaic law and came up with his own version of doctrines.) Even Paul's name is not Paul but originally is Saul. There no Jews called Paul at that time(that is what happens when people try to write history 300 hundred years after actual events had happened, they don't know what is the head what is the tail- all is based on hearsay and no reliable source.)

Paul's version became Doctrine was later accepted by the Church four centuries after Esa (alaihisalam) left this earth and became official. In fact what the Bible teaches contradicts Paul teachings,

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for own sin." (Deutronomy 24:16)

"But everyone shall die for his own iniquity..."(Jeremiah 31:30)

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."(Ezekiel 18:20)
So Adam and Eve were responsible for their own sin, which had also been forgiven by Allah according to Islam.

The Doctrine below contradicts the Bible itself and I urge Christians to ponder and think seriously how about this.

This was what Paul taught to abolish the Mosaic laws:
"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."(Acts 13:30)

The easiest way is to refute what I stated but if anyone is interested to discover more about teachings of Jesus read the Council of Nicea, Gospel of Barnabas or the Dead Sea scrolls. Better still the Holy Quran had made things clear as crystal. I invite everyone to seek truth and not just listen.


"Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope. He gets reward for that
(good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned."- Quran (2:286)

Allah knows best

 

[IslamicPearl]

1) " Does the sin have to do with intercourse before marriage?"
2) "is there any original sin in islam?"
3) "does a baby bears the sin of Adam and Hawaa" ( Eva)?

Salam

Imad, here are my answers:
1) Adam and Eve were 'married' so if they did it it was no sin. Adam was attracted to eat, he has been forgiven and then they both eat which made them both go astray and leave The Gardens.
2) There is originar sin in the meaning that it was true what they did.
3) But not in the way christianity understands it - that women carry this sin until they get married when it is washed away. So babies are pure.
If my answers are incomplete please tell me anything i missed.

Now here are some new questions i have in mind:
1)Can we know what cud it been like if they didnt eat from the apple?
2)Was it meant to be this way?
3)God told us to procreate...i didnt read the Quran yet but i suppose a similar affirmation is there too...was this said before they went astray so does it mean that the plan was to keep humanity in the Gardens - which leads back to my second question?
4)If those were the gardens of Eden than does it mean that that tree is stil there in the Heaven?

I will read the Quran soon inshallah and i will find anaswer for all my questions..but untill than .

Take care brothers and sisters.

 

[Imad]

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear sister,

There are some points which you didn't understand well.

answer on the old questions:

1) You are thinking they eat twice ( tell me if i'am wrong), because you said: " Adam was attracted to eat, he has been forgiven and then they both eat which made them both go astray and leave The Garden"

No no, Please they eat one time, when they eat they become naked. Sometimes Allah mentions only Adam, but it means Adam and his Wive. This verse which i have mentioned earlier makes it easy to understand.

"O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you will be distressed." [Ta-Ha 20:117]

Allah subhanahu wata3ala is directing his words to Adam, but He included his wive too.

Also

".... Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray." [Ta-Ha 20:120-121]

This means Adam en Eve disobeyed Allah, so they went astray.

In the following verse they asked for forgivenes.

"Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." [al-A'raaf 7:23]

I'am sorry if i was not clear in the letter i have posted before or if i made a mistake.

Allah has forgiven them , but they had to go out from jana ( paradise)

"Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful." [al-Baqarah 2:37]

This does not mean only adam has been forgiven, but also his wive because they eat both from the tree. Allah mentiones only Adam but Eve is also included.

2) yes it was true what they did, but they have been forgiven. So there is no original sin anymore. Because if someone is forgiven the sin is errased. There is no sin anymore.



answers on the new Questions:

1) No, we don't have knowledge of the unseen. It was the plan of Allah for us to be generation after generation on earth.

2) Yes it meant to be this way. It was a test and Allah knew they couldn't pass the test. That's why He said to the angels before He created Adam: " And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: 'Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth'." [al-Baqarah 2:30]

3) i don't understand this question

4) I don't know.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask them.

Wassalmoealaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh

 

[IslamicPearl]

Salam

Yes now i read it again and my 3rd question is pretty confusing. What i meant is that did God tell them to procreate, when He created them, before or after they ate from the apple? But thing is that God already knew they will not pass that test so it doesnt really matter when is was said.

What made me ask these questions is my last discussion i had wiht my mother, on which i am working on o make her aware of islam, about the originar sin. She told me that there is comething confusing wiht 2 things:
1. the originar sin which continues wiht every borned woman so having intimate relations is a sin by itself
2. God sais to procreate
So it wud mean that everyone is sinning but they have to.

Anyway..now things are clear to me, though im sure i will come up wiht more questions to be asnwered, and i will try to enlighten mom too.

Thanx a lot and pray for me.

 

[ibn azem]

Salam

Yes now i read it again and my 3rd question is pretty confusing. What i meant is that did God tell them to procreate, when He created them, before or after they ate from the apple? But thing is that God already knew they will not pass that test so it doesnt really matter when is was said.

What made me ask these questions is my last discussion i had wiht my mother, on which i am working on o make her aware of islam, about the originar sin. She told me that there is comething confusing wiht 2 things:
1. the originar sin which continues wiht every borned woman so having intimate relations is a sin by itself
2. God sais to procreate
So it wud mean that everyone is sinning but they have to.

Anyway..now things are clear to me, though im sure i will come up wiht more questions to be asnwered, and i will try to enlighten mom too.

Thanx a lot and pray for me.

:salam2:

Alhamdulillaah that you are learning day by day sister, and may Allah (swt) increase you in knowledge and eeman, and help you with your mother insha'Allah.

It is clear that this original sin is something irrational anyway, so I suggest you to read the Qur'an as soon as possible to get a lot answers for yourself first, and then you can have an idea how to explain things better to your mother.

And ofcourse you can always ask for assistance and we'll try our best insha'Allah.

wasalaam.

 

[Dawoodi]

salam w

Salam brothers and sister.

There is one subject to which i cudnt find an answer on this site.
The Bible says that Eva eat from the apple and Adam was attracted by Eva to eat from it. I dont know what islam say about this. Was this true...was it an apple or is it just a way of expressing the intercourse..as in she attracted him to do that wihtout being married.

And if this is true it doesnt make sense to say that every new borned female carries wiht her the originar sin..as christianity says, because every perons is different and responsable for his/her sins.

Can anyone light me up please? Thankyou.

salam walaikum w

brother insha'allah i recomed u to read u Qur'an insha'allah!

salam w.

 

[ibn azem]

salam walaikum w

brother insha'allah i recomed u to read u Qur'an insha'allah!

salam w.

:salam2:

IslamicPearl is a sister,

wasalaam.

 

[IslamicPearl]

yes i am. Proud to be muslim sister.

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu alaykum,

why nobody link to this:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2458

[vg]3415554979334230636[/vg]

wasalam

 

[boupj]

When I went to catholic school I was taught that original sin refers to our capacity to sin. We are all born sinless but capable of sinning. This seems very contradictory because I also remember the priest saying that you're baby needs to be baptized or it might go to hell. How can a baby go to hell??? The whole original sin thing is very confusing. Even if it only refers to the fact that we are capable of sinning (like we'll all sin at one point in our life, or we have the free will to sin) how did we get it from Adam aand Eve? I mean if there was no original sin before Adam and Eve than how did they have the capacity to sin??? It doesn't make sense, but I am a Muslim now and this doesn't matter. In Islam it is my understanding that Allah has given us the ability to make choices ("free wil") and Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, but they were sorry and repented to God and they were forgiven. I know in the BIble childbirth was one of the punishments that was prescribed to Eve I'm not sure what it says in the Quran about that.

 

[ibn azem]

:salam2:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Muslim's every act is an ibadah (servitude to Allah). What else could be more rewarding than helping create and welcoming a new servant of Allah on earth? Nine months may not be that much, but for a baby in the womb it brings the end of an extraordinary stage of his journey. It is a journey through which an impure 'spurting fluid' (al-Qur'an 86:6) is fashioned in the safe lodging of mother's womb (al-Qur'an 23:12-14) and grows bigger and bigger to become a 'human being'. As the human being is not meant to be confined in a tiny space, he needs a wider physical world in order to go through the process of 'test and tribulation' for which he is destined. [/FONT]

A Question to think about : [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According to the Quran, how important is the stage of the child being in the mother's womb and what bearing does it have on the human being's life? [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Birth[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The birth of a baby is a mixture of anxiety, excitement and expectation. For mothers it is a fulfilling experience. Allah has given in them unusual resilience strength and courage to bear the burden and discomfort. A new life in their lap is a dream coming true for both the parents. It is the ultimate experience for a couple of 'togetherness", both working in unison to bring a new creature into the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although parenthood is a matter of preparedness from the time one plans to marry, birth initiates the 'real world' experience of parenting. Labour is a traumatic and painful physical, as well as psychological, experience for a woman. For many husbands it may be hard to watch their beloved one in pain, but their presence has soothing effect on their partners. It reduces anxiety and provides a feeling of security to wives when most needed. The shared experience creates deeper bond between the couple in their common goal to serve Allah. [/FONT]

A Question to think about :[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The shared experience creates deeper bond between the couple." In your view, what are the ways in which a husband can support his wife during birth? Show how each way can strengthen the bond between them. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islamic Customs on Birth of a Child[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The comfort and safety of the baby suddenly shatters in the new unknown world. The new born (al-mawlood, pl-mawalid) cries out. The Sunnah of the Prophet teaches that when a baby is born he needs to be cleansed and dressed. A male adult, father or some one close in the family, should recite adhan (ritual call for collective prayer) in the right ear and iqamah (ritual announcement for starting the prayer) in the left ear. In the world of spirit man declared his instinctive readiness to accept Allah as his Lord (al-Qur'an 7:172). The first sound to reach a baby's ear should thus be the declaration of Allah's greatness, so that the sound always reverberates in his memory and settled in his soul. It is mentioned in a hadith that devil runs away by the sound of the adhan. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mother of the faithful Ayesha (RA) mentioned, "I saw the prophet give adhan in the ear of al-Hussein ibn Ali when his mother, Fatima, gave birth to him". (Ahmad, Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When a child was born in a family, Ayesha (RA) would not ask whether it was a
boy or girl, rather she would ask "is it complete and sound?" so, if she was
told that it was, she would say, "all praise and thanks for Allah, Lord of
all creation". (Bukhari)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is an excellent practice to give a bit of small chewed date to the baby,
so that he starts his life with sweetness. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ayesha (RA) said "new born children used to be brought to Allah's messenger
and he would supplicate for blessing for them and rub a chewed date upon his
palate" (Muslim, Abu Dawud). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muslims parents have instinctive dua (supplication) for their new-born. The
supplication by Mariam's (AS) in this regard is unique mother (al-Qur'an
3:36). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Arrival of a child in a family is a glad tiding that needs to be conveyed and
shared (al-Qur'an 3:39, 37:101). [/FONT]

A Question to think about : Give a pointwise list of things to do (as reflected by the sunnah) after the child is born. Show the order of precedence and comment on the significance of each action.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islamic Customs in the first Week of a Child[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Every child is held in pledge for his aqiqa which is sacrificed for him on
his seventh day and he is named on it and his head is shaved" (Ahmad and Abu
Dawud). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Names should be linked with his father (al-Qur'an 33:5). Names have to be
meaningful. Praiseworthy names are those which mean slaves of Allah or His
attributes, the Prophets and the pious people. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The most beloved of your names in the eye of Allah, the Mighty and
Magnificent, are Abdullah and Abdur Rahman" (Muslim). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Names should not be such which are disapproved or forbidden by the Prophet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Whoever has a child born to him and wishes to offer a sacrifice then let him
sacrifice two sheep for a boy and a single sheep for a girl. (Abu Dawud and
Nasa'i)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With the child there is aqiqa, so spill blood for him and remove the harm
from him (Bukhari, Ahmad, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When al-Hasan was born, he (messenger) said to her (Fatima) : shave his head
and give the weight of his hair in silver to the poor. So, she shaved off his
hair, weighed it and its weight was a dirham or a part of dirham. (Ahmad and
al-Baihaqi)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The fitrah (the natural way) is five : circumcision, shaving the private
parts, trimming the moustache, clipping the nails and plucking hair from the
armpits (Bukhari, Muslim) Circumcision is better on the 7th day. [/FONT]

A Question to think about : [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is indeed great wisdom in the Islamic customs in the first week of a child. Can you find points that justify this statement. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sons and Daughters to be Treated Equally [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The gender of a child should not bother parents. After all, it is divine
will. Sons and daughters must be treated equally. In pre-Islamic Arab and
some other societies daughters were the symbol of embarrassment and were
treated in shameful manner to the extent that some Arab fathers buried them
alive. It is an irony that many societies even today do not welcome the birth
of daughters in the same way they do with sons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Whoever takes care of two girls until they reach adulthood he and I will stay
on the Day of Resurrection - and he interlaced his fingers (Muslim).
Prophet's behaviour with his daughter Fatima was exemplary.[/FONT]

A Question to think about : [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can you think of reasons why, even today, many societies do not welcome the birth of daughters? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Demand from the Newborn Babies[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The demand from the newborn babies is continuous and tremendous. Mothers
should be in the forefront in making sure that the baby is clean, well-fed,
loved and protected. Breast-milk is the perfect food for human babies. The
physical touch of the baby with the mother during breastfeeding creates
exhilarated relationship between the two. This is the root of life-long love
between a mother and a child. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Newborn babies are fully dependent on adults. The only way they can
communicate is crying when they are hungry or uncomfortable and smiling when
they are happy. Their hands and feet participate in their action. Babies like
to be rocked and talked to. The excellent practice for parents is to recite
the Qur'an for them.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
To read the references of the full verses from the Qur'an:

[/FONT]The Noble Qur'an

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] wasalaam.
[/FONT]