pig, wild boar and horse

mshemyalnisar

New Member
asalam o alaikum everyone

a christian/agnostic friend of mine posed a question on me that is wild boar haram? if so, why?? when i replied yes and that it was because it was the same as a pig he tried to related it to theory of evolution and said that this is why theory of evolution is right.

i felt it really bad that i could not explain it to him. because although i felt that it was right for a wild boar t be haram but he would always try and trap me in the theory of evolution.

besides is the horse meat halal??
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Salaam,

The wild boar (sus scrofa) and the pig (sus domistica) are the same species, in other words, basically the same animal. So your friend displayed his ignorance in basic biology while trying to argue evolution. The basic premise of evolution is a specie will change and evolve to adapt to their enviroment or die off completely. So the existance of apes creates a paradox. If human came from apes due to a need to adapt or die....why are there still apes? Wouldn't they have died off do to maladaption? Food for thought. :)

As for horses....

What is the ruling on eating horse meat?.


Praise be to Allaah.

The majority of scholars are of the view that it is permissible to eat horses, because of the sound ahaadeeth that have been narrated concerning that.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: On the day of Khaybar, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade eating the flesh of domestic donkeys, but he granted a concession with regard to horses. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3982; Muslim, 1941.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70320

Wasalaam
 

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
asalam o alaikum everyone

a christian/agnostic friend of mine posed a question on me that is wild boar haram? if so, why?? when i replied yes and that it was because it was the same as a pig he tried to related it to theory of evolution and said that this is why theory of evolution is right.

i felt it really bad that i could not explain it to him. because although i felt that it was right for a wild boar t be haram but he would always try and trap me in the theory of evolution.

besides is the horse meat halal??

:salam2:

as the sister put it, the wild boar is the same species as a pig. your friend is pretty unconvincing with his argument. lol
:wasalam:
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Salaam,

The wild boar (sus scrofa) and the pig (sus domistica) are the same species, in other words, basically the same animal. So your friend displayed his ignorance in basic biology while trying to argue evolution. The basic premise of evolution is a specie will change and evolve to adapt to their enviroment or die off completely. So the existance of apes creates a paradox. If human came from apes due to a need to adapt or die....why are there still apes? Wouldn't they have died off do to maladaption? Food for thought. :)

As for horses....



http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70320

Wasalaam

:salam2:
Im not sure how he was using theory of evolution please explain otherwise exactly wat sister said, Wild boar and pig are totally related ... people just domesticated wild boar by selecting breeding and captivity over generations and now its called pig ... they still are the same animal :)
bro/sis dont get nervous on questions like these :) non-believers will always throw stuff like that at you remember Islam has answer to everything I just tell them im sorry im not very knowledgable in that subject let me study islam on this subject and i will get back to u ;)
take it easy
aslam o alaikum
 

Amina 1

Junior Member
Assalam Alaikum
If they are arguing with you it means they are trying to confirm what they believe is right. But deep down inside they know that they are not, Inshallah the truth will set them on the straight path. The truth is on your side so don't be bothered to much with ridiculous arguments.:hijabi:
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
Salaam,

The wild boar (sus scrofa) and the pig (sus domistica) are the same species, in other words, basically the same animal. So your friend displayed his ignorance in basic biology while trying to argue evolution. The basic premise of evolution is a specie will change and evolve to adapt to their enviroment or die off completely. So the existance of apes creates a paradox. If human came from apes due to a need to adapt or die....why are there still apes? Wouldn't they have died off do to maladaption? Food for thought. :)

As for horses....



http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70320

Wasalaam


Don't you just LOOOVE having a doctor around here?!!! :D

Better quote this and take it to your friend..that should put him back in place...or maybe at least head to the nearest *Barnes & Noble* to grab some books biology!

(he *really* got owned *and* shot down with sister Sarah's explanation though..lol)

:wasalam:
 

mshemyalnisar

New Member
Actually the way the argument proceeded was:

(Prior to this he asked me whether you believe in evolution or creationism and I said Creationism. Although I was able to defend my argument but i think not that properly or to say not in a very good way.)

Him: Is Wild Boar haram?
Me: Yes, it is.
Him: Why when it is different from the Pig itself?
Me: Because it is the same animal.
Him: What you mean to say is that somewhere back in time wild boar evolved differently and back a wild boar than a pig.
Me: Probably yes.
Him: but you said that you do not believe in the theory of evolution, is it not hypocritical? you believe it when you like and not believe it when you don't
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
assalamu alaykum,

Well, I used to drive one my lecturers nuts. She was not a nice lady as she held a lot of prejudiced views.

She was teaching evolution,

She said, We all evolved from Apes.

I said, maybe you did, but I certainly havent!

She got mad, and asked what I said, so I repeated

-- She sent me out the class. :) Something, I got used to in school and college, as I would always correct the lecturers if they said anything incorrect about our Islam or other things.

In the UK we are supposed to live in a "Free society", but it seems a lot of our education institutions want a one way process. Where people are fed incorrect ideas, that are deemed the "truth".

Anyway, this happened a few years ago! But, I am a polite person!
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Actually the way the argument proceeded was:

(Prior to this he asked me whether you believe in evolution or creationism and I said Creationism. Although I was able to defend my argument but i think not that properly or to say not in a very good way.)

Him: Is Wild Boar haram?
Me: Yes, it is.
Him: Why when it is different from the Pig itself?
Me: Because it is the same animal.
Him: What you mean to say is that somewhere back in time wild boar evolved differently and back a wild boar than a pig.
Me: Probably yes.
Him: but you said that you do not believe in the theory of evolution, is it not hypocritical? you believe it when you like and not believe it when you don't


Salaam,

There is a fundamental difference between adaptation and evolution. Evolution means to evolve from one species to another. Adaptation means physical changes to adjust to the enviroment through selective breeding but that the species remains intact.

Look at dogs, through selective breeding they can look very, very different from each other. But they are still the same species and can be interbred. A chihuahua is the same species as a German Shepard...just because one is large with a thick coat does not mean they are a seperate species from the tiny one with the thin coat. This is adaptation.

Allah swt made us able to adapt so that we can live pretty much anywhere on this planet. We use our brains mostly to create clothing, shelter, etc., But some folks adapt by physically changing...such as folks who live at very high altitudes. Their hemoglobin is much better at transporting oxygen than the those of us who live at normal altitudes. According to the theory of evolution they should become a seperate species and we can no longer interbreed with with them. But we see that is patently untrue.

Anyway...I've babbled. So the boar and the pig are the same species but there are physical differences due to adaptation...not evolution.

Wasalaam
 

Rashadi

Junior Member
Actually the way the argument proceeded was:

(Prior to this he asked me whether you believe in evolution or creationism and I said Creationism. Although I was able to defend my argument but i think not that properly or to say not in a very good way.)

Him: Is Wild Boar haram?
Me: Yes, it is.
Him: Why when it is different from the Pig itself?
Me: Because it is the same animal.
Him: What you mean to say is that somewhere back in time wild boar evolved differently and back a wild boar than a pig.
Me: Probably yes.
Him: but you said that you do not believe in the theory of evolution, is it not hypocritical? you believe it when you like and not believe it when you don't


It is not a different animal but the same. Just like we have different types of humans, some are white, black, brown, yellow, difference in hair, difference in language but in the end we are still part of the same human race. There are differences like that in animals as well and the boar is part of the pig family. That Christian friend of yours is confused and only shooting himself in the foot further. Maybe he wants to justify eating pig meat and at the same time he is trying to trap you. Sounds like an Atheist to me but then again, to me some Christians are no different from Atheists.
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
asalam o alaikum everyone

a christian/agnostic friend of mine posed a question on me that is wild boar haram? if so, why?? when i replied yes and that it was because it was the same as a pig he tried to related it to theory of evolution and said that this is why theory of evolution is right.

i felt it really bad that i could not explain it to him. because although i felt that it was right for a wild boar t be haram but he would always try and trap me in the theory of evolution.

besides is the horse meat halal??

Salamu Alikum wahmtu ALlah wabrkatu

May Allah guid your friend to the right path and all of us ameen

Ask your friend has he tried to eat a Mouse before?

Then tell him the pig is from the same family of the Mouse ( scientific information )



Here is a fatwa

What is the reason for the prohibition on pork?
I am an Arab living in Malta and I want to know the reason why pork is forbidden, because my friends at work are asking me about that.


Praise be to Allaah.

The basic principle for the Muslim is that he obeys whatever Allaah enjoins upon him, and refrains from whatever He forbids him, whether the reason behind that is clear or not.

It is not permissible for a Muslim to reject any ruling of sharee’ah or to hesitate to follow it if the reason behind it is not clear. Rather he must accept the rulings on halaal and haraam when they are proven in the text, whether he understands the reason behind that or not. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error”
[al-Ahzaab 33:36]

“The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allaah (His Words, the Qur’aan) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: ‘We hear and we obey.’ And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise)”

[al-Noor 24:51]

Pork is forbidden in Islam according to the text of the Qur’aan, where Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He has forbidden you only the Maytah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine…”
[al-Baqarah 2:173]

It is not permissible for a Muslim to consume it under any circumstances except in cases of necessity where a person’s life depends on eating it, such as in the case of starvation where a person fears that he is going to die, and he cannot find any other kind of food, based on the shar’i principle: “In cases of necessity, haraam things are permitted.”

There is no mention in the shar’i texts of a specific reason for the prohibition on pork, apart from the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “for that surely, is impure” [al-An’aam 6:145]. The word rijs (translated here as ‘impure’) is used to refer to anything that is regarded as abhorrent in Islam and according to the sound human nature (fitrah). This reason alone is sufficient. And there is a general reason which is given with regard to the prohibition on haraam food and drink and the like, which points to the reason behind the prohibition on pork. This general reason is to be found in the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“he [i.e., the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] allows them as lawful At‑Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al‑Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)”
[al-A’raaf 7:157]

The general meaning of this verse includes the reason for the prohibition on pork and it may be understood that in the Islamic viewpoint, it is included among the list of things that are evil and unlawful (al-khabaa’ith).

What is meant by al-khabaa’ith here is all things that will harm a person’s health, wealth or morals. Everything that leads to negative consequences in one of these important aspects of a person’s life comes under the general heading of khabaa’ith.

Scientific and medical research has also proven that the pig, among all other animals, is regarded as a carrier of germs that are harmful to the human body. Explaining all these harmful diseases in detail would take too long, but in brief we may list them as: parasitical diseases, bacterial diseases, viruses and so on.

These and other harmful effects indicate that the Wise Lawgiver has only forbidden pork for a reason, which is to preserve life and health, which are among the five basic necessities which are protected by sharee’ah.

See also the answer to question no. 751.

In the answer to question no. 26792 you will find important details on the rulings on worship and rulings for which the reasons are clear.

And Allaah knows best.


Beside in the Bible the PIG IS forbidden



Ruling on eating horse meat
What is the ruling on eating horse meat?.


Praise be to Allaah.

The majority of scholars are of the view that it is permissible to eat horses, because of the sound ahaadeeth that have been narrated concerning that.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: On the day of Khaybar, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade eating the flesh of domestic donkeys, but he granted a concession with regard to horses. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3982; Muslim, 1941.

It was narrated that Asma’ bint Abi Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: At the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) we slaughtered a horse and ate it. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5191; Muslim, 1942.

It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: We traveled with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and we used to eat the flesh of horses and drink their milk. Narrated by al-Daaraqutni and al-Bayhaqi. Al-Nawawi said: with a saheeh isnaad.

Other scholars – including Abu Haneefah and his two companions – are of the view that it is makrooh to eat horse meat. They quoted a Qur’aanic verse and a hadeeth as evidence for that.

The verse is as follows (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys, for you to ride and as an adornment”

[al-Nahl 16:8]

They said: He did not mention eating them, but He mentioned eating an’aam animals (camels, cattle etc) in a previous verse (verse 5).

The scholars responded to that by noting that mention of riding and adornment does not mean that their benefits are limited to that, rather these two are singled out for mention because they are the uses to which horses are put in the majority of cases. This is like the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al‑Maitah (the dead animals — cattle — beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine” [al-Maa’idah 5:3]. Here flesh is mentioned because that is what is usually eaten in most cases. The Muslims are unanimously agreed that the fat, blood and all other parts of the pig are also forbidden, and they said: hence Allaah does not mention carrying load on horses, although He says with regard to an’aam animals (camels etc), “And they carry your loads” [al-Nahl 16:7]. This does not imply that it is haraam to carry loads on horses. End quote from al-Majmoo’.

The hadeeth that they quote is that which was narrated from Khaalid ibn al-Waalid, that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the flesh of horses, mules and donkeys, and every wild animal that has fangs.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Nasaa’i and Ibn Maajah.

This hadeeth is da’eef (weak), and was classed as such by al-Albaani in Da’eef Abi Dawood.

Al-Haafiz Moosa ibn Haroon said: This is a weak hadeeth. Al-Bukhaari said: This hadeeth is subject to further investigation.

Al-Bayhaqi said: This is a mudtarab (faulty) isnaad, and in addition to that it contradicts the ahaadeeth of trustworthy narrators, which say that the meat of horses is permitted. Al-Khattaabi said: There is something wrong with its isnaad. Abu Dawood said: This hadeeth is mansookh (abrogated). Al-Nasaa’i said: The hadeeth which says that it is permissible is more sound. It is more likely, if this is saheeh, that it has been abrogated, because of what it says in the saheeh hadeeth, “Permission was given to eat the flesh of horses,” indicates that.

End quote from al-Majmoo’, 9/7-5

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
Falseness of the theory of evolution

There are people who say that long ago man was a monkey and he evolved. Is this true? Is there any evidence?.

Praise be to Allaah.

This view is not correct, and the evidence for that is that Allaah has described in the Qur’aan the stages of the creation of Adam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]

This dust was moistened until it became sticky mud or clay that stuck to the hands. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth)”

[al-Mu’minoon 23:12]

“Verily, We created them of a sticky clay”

[al-Saaffaat 37:12]

Then it became dried (sounding) clay of altered mud. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud”
[al-Hijr 15:26]

Then when it dried it became sounding clay like the clay of pottery. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery”

[al-Rahmaan 55:14]

Then Allaah moulded it into the form that He wanted and breathed into him (his) soul created by Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘Truly, I am going to create man from clay’.

So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him”

[Saad 38:71-72]

These are the stages through which the creation of Adam passed according to the Qur’aan. As for the stages of creation which the progeny of Adam pass through, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth).

Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman).

Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allaah, the Best of creators”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:12-14]

With regard to the wife of Adam – Hawwa’ (Eve) – Allaah tells us that He created her from him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women”

[al-Nisa’ 4:1]



From Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/31.
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
Are the monkeys and pigs that exist nowadays humans who have been transformed?
Could you please tell me about monkeys. Are they humans who were turned into monkeys for disobeying Allahs commandments? if so which people were they and what did they do?


Praise be to Allaah.

Maskh (transformation) refers to the changing of a person’s exterior appearance. Allaah has told us in more than one place in the Qur’aan that He transformed some of the Children of Israel into monkeys as a punishment for their disobedience towards Allaah. Allaah says, addressing the Children of Israel (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.’

So We made this punishment an example to their own and to succeeding generations and a lesson to those who are Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)”

[al-Baqarah 2:65-66]

And Allaah tells us their story in more detail in Soorat al-A’raaf, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And ask them (O Muhammad) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah)

And when a community among them said: ‘Why do you preach to a people whom Allaah is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment?’ (The preachers) said: ‘In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allaah), and perhaps they may fear Allaah.’

So when they forgot the reminders that had been given to them, We rescued those who forbade evil, but with a severe torment We seized those who did wrong because they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah).

So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected’”

[al-A’raaf 7:163-166]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say: ‘O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allaah, and in (the Revelation) which has been sent down to us and in that which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are Faasiqoon [rebellious and disobedient (to Allaah)]?’

Say (O Muhammad to the people of the Scripture): ‘Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allaah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allaah and His Wrath, and those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, and those who worshipped Taaghoot (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hell-fire), and far more astray from the Right Path (in the life of this world)’”
[al-Maa’idah 5:59-60]

This transformation was a punishment from Allaah to them for their doing that which Allaah had forbidden to them. This punishment was not exclusively for the Children of Israel, rather the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that the Hour will not begin until such transformation happens among this ummah too. He issued this warning to those who disbelieve in the divine decree (al-qadr), and those who drink alcohol and listen to singing – we seek refuge with Allaah from that.

Ibn Maajah (4059) narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shortly before the Hour begins, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.” (Saheeh Ibn Maajah, 3280).

Being swallowed up in the earth means that the earth will split open and swallow up a person, house or city, just as Allaah caused the earth to swallow Qaaroon and his household. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning);

“So We caused the earth to swallow him”

[al-Qasas 28:81]

Pelting with stones is the same as Allaah did to the people of Loot. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and rained down on them stones of baked clay”

[al-Hijr 15:74]

Al-Tirmidhi (2152) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘Among this ummah those who disbelieve in the divine decree (al-qadr) will be wallowed up by the earth, transformed into monkeys and pigs or pelted with stones.” (Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1748).

And al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.” A man among the Muslims said, “O Messenger of Allaah, when will that be?” He said, “When singing-girls and musical instruments become widespread and wine is drunk.” (Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1802).

These ahaadeeth indicate that such transformations will happen in this ummah as a punishment for some sins. So let the Muslim beware of doing anything that Allaah has forbidden. Woe be to the one who provokes the anger, wrath and vengeance of Allaah. May Allaah keep us all safe from the things that incur His punishment.

But these monkeys and pigs that exist nowadays are not the people from the earlier nations who were transformed, because Allaah does not enable those who have been transformed to have offspring, rather He causes them to die after being transformed, so they have no offspring.

Muslim (2663) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: “A man said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, are the monkeys and pigs those who have been transformed?’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Allaah does not enable those who have been transformed to have offspring or children. The monkeys and pigs existed before that.’” al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The Prophet’s words ‘The monkeys and pigs existed before that’ means that they existed before the Children of Israel were transformed, which indicates that they are not from among those who were transformed.”

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and grant him peace.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid



I hope this fatwaS WERE helpful
subhan Allah I wOnder they belive in the Evolution theory false and that we evolved on Earth from monkeys This idea makes no since when you look at the whole picture. If all of us did evolve on this rock from a form of monkey, the races would be much more similar than they are to date Subhan Allah i wonder where is the Minds ,they believe
on that AND they Unable to Beliveve on Quran?
Wondering

whynt they go and check the words of Allah in the quran and Know the
Absolute truth from the Begininng and the Monkies origin story?
 
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