question about the poor 'children'

[WithAllahsPowers]

salam,

i hope everyone is well inshallah.

i have a question i'd like to seek answers for regarding the poor.

my mum and i was watching a documentary on poor people around the world different countries, there were people donating money to the poor and it was showing us how bad of living life it is for them and some only eat once a day and its a light meal.

it showed a mother with 8 kids, another mother with 4 young kids each was born after another so not far apart. then it showed this young girl who has 6 siblings (i think 6) and her mother died from AIDS when the girl was young and the girl was left to takecare and raise her siblings on her own. she went out and hunted for food, got water, worked, taught the kids how to hunt and work, and said its really hard but they cant live if they dont do this.
the other mothers that had 8 and 4 kids, these kids were so thin, you can see their bones, they were so sad, the mother would cry in fear of her childrens health, some mothers are sick and training their kids so when they pass away their kids can survive.

out of care and love for these kids, it built some anger in me. my mum and i were crying from what we saw. but the anger was from a question that i felt bad asking and thinking 'WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HAVE SO MANY KIDS, KNOWING YOUR SICK OR WONT BE ABLE TO FEED THEM, WHY BRING THEM UP IN THIS WORLD AND COMPLAIN YOUR POOR AND CANT FEED THEM OR FEAR THEIR HEALTH WHEN YOU WERE RAISED THIS WAY AND FOUND IT HARD SO WHY PUT OTHER KIDS INTO IT'

i was so upset, why are these poor people, living in countries or places where food and all is so hard to get, why give birth to so many kids and make them go through what you've went through why? kids are so precious, okay, have one or two, but 8, i really cried so much and still do when remembering these kids, thats just 3 or 4 stories im telling you about, but the amount of poor in the world is unbelievable. i wish i could feed and raise allllllll the poor kids.

i wish to understand why.

guys, please please dont think im being slack, i just want to understand and learn and have my question answered so i dont get so upset and angry.

im okay now, i saw this documentary a few days ago. im not angry anymore, i just wish to understand. i care so much for young kids, i love all kids, i wish i could help all the needed kids in the world, thats why i ask this question.

please help me understand and please do not be angry with me for thinking like this, if i didnt ask you, i would still think so i'd rather ask.

 

[Friend2100]

Walikum salam wa rahmatullah,

Dear Sister,

First of all Jazak Allah Khair for asking question. It is always better to clear up questions what one has in mind then just keep it and allow shaitan to influence you.

let's ponder at this verse,

“Who has created death and life, that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;”
Surah AL-MULK:67:2


I would just say it is test for them as well as for us.
Test For them , because they are undergoing such a hard condition, Allah(s.w.t.) tests whether there is any change(decrease or increase) in Faith.
Test for us, by watching these people, shaitan might persuade us to think this situation cant be planned by ALLAH. Therefore decreasing our faith.
Moreover this poverty is even due to our(Human) selfishness too, imagine each and every person in the world gives 2.5% of their income towards charity, the poverty would be banished from this world.
if you read stories of the prophets, you would find even people who were closest to ALLAH(s.w.t.) led such an sad life.
Example job(a.s.)
http://www.jannah.org/morearticles/50.html

and last but not least,
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "O God, grant me life as a poor man, cause me to die as a poor man and resurrect me in the company of the poor.." His wife asked him why he said that, and he replied: "Because (the poor) will enter Paradise (before) the rich. Do not turn away a poor man...even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you..God will bring you near Him on the Day of Ressurrection."
--------- Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376.
you may refer below link too:

http://www.ilovemuhammed.com/the-pr...he-prophet-muhammed-pbuh-and-helping-the-poor

This answer is for time being, may be someone else can answer better than me.
Jazak Allah Khair for reading.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalam Alaikum:

Let's see the problem beyond religion. Those poor mothers and most probably illiterates where they are going to know and adopt methods of temporary contraception. The permanent solution to stop conception is "Tubectomy" and is a surgical procedure,definitely out of their reach.

The lady servant at my home is bringing up five children,all born year after year,with their individual perception that more the children are born more are they source of future man power (earning).

Regards.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Here is a different perspective:

We can not regulate birth control. We can not magically decide who and who can not have children. That is similar to eugenics. And that is a no-no.

We can assist others. We can give from that which Allah has given us to make sure there is food and shelter.

Every child born is the Will of Allah.

When people are poor they have less opportunities for relaxation. Sex is the easiest. And often it is sex that gives couples a sense of being.

I have read and seen craziness. In India they round off, rope off, young men and give them vasectomies. All birth control contraceptives are usually given to women in the so called third world countries before they are approved for women in the US to use.

There will always be poor and uneducated peoples on the Earth.

The question becomes how much are we willing to share our wealth with others.

We have to take emotion out of the equation and think with our hearts, Islamically.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalam Alaikum:

Matter here is not who and who cannot have children,the matter is how many they should have with evaluation of their present and speculation of their future monitory possible status.

When I witness poor children of my lady servant,I am compelled to think,is this trend of poverty going to perpetuate generation after generation?. The only initial option considerable to break this chain of inherent poverty seems to be delimiting the large families to a optimum strength.

Who pays off to the correct scaled Jakat annually?. Jakat is taken at the head as a load equivalent to income tax ( in Non-Islamic countries).

Regards.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother, we can not limit the number of children a person chooses to have; we need to learn from China.

Income is not the deciding factor for having children. It can not be. We are entering into an area of ethics. And, I can not do that.

If you study the history of Planned Parenthood it will scare the wits out of you.

The world is expansive and we have resources to feed the poor and hungry. We choose not to do so. It is that simple.

My fear is the ethical issues.

Incidentally, there are natural methods of birth control that are very effective, up to 90%, that have been used for centuries. Thus, it is still a choice. A rich man has millions in his safe..a poor man has ten pairs of little feet running around.

Please understand I am not debating but presenting a different perspective.

 

[ShyHijabi]

:salam2:

From an Islamic POV, permanent forms of birth control, such as vasectomies and tubal ligation, are not permissible. Besides, most of these women do not have the funds or access to the medical care. Birth control such as the "pill" is also costly for these women and out of reach locally.

Then there is abstinence, should these women deny their husband his rights to sex? According to Islam they are not permitted to do that either. So what exactly do you propose from an Islamic POV? This problem is much more complex than you can imagine. Both from a pragmatic POV as well as a religious one.

 

[alf2]

Sure tubal ligation and such are out of their means.
What about condoms? People who want to educate Africans in poverty about HIV/AIDS also pass out condoms thankfully. But those who are religious throw them out becuase their Imams, Priests etc say not to use them! How dare they!

And its said she cannot deny her husband sexual intercourse, if he cant provide for his children is it really fair that he can have so many? Abstainance is not the end of the world. I would choose abstainance over bringing a child into the world only to die before its even 3 years old...From hunger or HIV, whichever one takes it first.

Honestly, I was raised to be taught only have sex if you have the financial means to support a child. Married or not. And I stick by that even now.

 

[auroran]

:salam2:

They have a lot of kids because chances are most of them wouldn't survive.

They are getting poorer because of Ribaa, as the rich get richer, may Allah keep us away from Ribaa.

:salam2:

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sex and money are not linear. We are told Allah will provide.

There are many other methods that work. Why would you deprive yourself of that which is halal.

Fertility is a blessing from Allah.

We need to educate women on the methods that are centuries old and work. Trust me this subject is not new.

Sister, AIDS is not limited to Africa. And you have introduced a new subject into the conversation. Multiple partners with unprotected sex is not the same as sex with multiple wives. Someone actually posted this discussion once upon a time on TTI.

In summary, let us be understanding of the right of others to bear children. Let us be humble and share with others the provisions Allah has given us. Let us gain knowledge and share knowledge.

And here I go again..please read the agenda of Planned Parenthood. The agenda is very political. The agenda is part of the Zionist agenda. I have posted on another thread the insipid and evil wishes of the New American Century Plan.

 

[abdul-aziz]

salam,

i hope everyone is well inshallah.

i have a question i'd like to seek answers for regarding the poor.

my mum and i was watching a documentary on poor people around the world different countries, there were people donating money to the poor and it was showing us how bad of living life it is for them and some only eat once a day and its a light meal.

it showed a mother with 8 kids, another mother with 4 young kids each was born after another so not far apart. then it showed this young girl who has 6 siblings (i think 6) and her mother died from AIDS when the girl was young and the girl was left to takecare and raise her siblings on her own. she went out and hunted for food, got water, worked, taught the kids how to hunt and work, and said its really hard but they cant live if they dont do this.
the other mothers that had 8 and 4 kids, these kids were so thin, you can see their bones, they were so sad, the mother would cry in fear of her childrens health, some mothers are sick and training their kids so when they pass away their kids can survive.

out of care and love for these kids, it built some anger in me. my mum and i were crying from what we saw. but the anger was from a question that i felt bad asking and thinking 'WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HAVE SO MANY KIDS, KNOWING YOUR SICK OR WONT BE ABLE TO FEED THEM, WHY BRING THEM UP IN THIS WORLD AND COMPLAIN YOUR POOR AND CANT FEED THEM OR FEAR THEIR HEALTH WHEN YOU WERE RAISED THIS WAY AND FOUND IT HARD SO WHY PUT OTHER KIDS INTO IT'

i was so upset, why are these poor people, living in countries or places where food and all is so hard to get, why give birth to so many kids and make them go through what you've went through why? kids are so precious, okay, have one or two, but 8, i really cried so much and still do when remembering these kids, thats just 3 or 4 stories im telling you about, but the amount of poor in the world is unbelievable. i wish i could feed and raise allllllll the poor kids.

i wish to understand why.

guys, please please dont think im being slack, i just want to understand and learn and have my question answered so i dont get so upset and angry.

im okay now, i saw this documentary a few days ago. im not angry anymore, i just wish to understand. i care so much for young kids, i love all kids, i wish i could help all the needed kids in the world, thats why i ask this question.

please help me understand and please do not be angry with me for thinking like this, if i didnt ask you, i would still think so i'd rather ask.

:salam2:

I know you feel bad after watching the documentary, and I understand what you mean. But do know that these documentaries can sometimes be deceiving, as they filter out joyful moments and/or bad moments to match their desired climactic settings. Like they would film these places and spend many ours recording, then choose the seen that reflects what they are trying to present.

Nevertheless, it exists all over the world. So many poor people. What saddens me, the wealth of the world is being horded and placed where they feel they will get more wealth. We must contribute what we can to help.

with respects to having children:

Allah states in the Quran:

[Hilali-Khan] Say (O Muhammad ): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawahish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islamic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand. [6:151]

in this verse the tone is towards the father and mother; and they should not kill their children out of poverty: Allah states the he will provide the parents and the children.

[Hilali-Khan] And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin.[17:31]

in this verse the order is switched because the objective of killing the children is fear the children will make them poorer. Therefore Allah says He will provide for them and the parents.

Having mentioned this, it is probably a good thing they are having children, because if they didn't they wouldn't have anyone to care for them, and Allah knows best.

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

Allah is The Giver and He is giving from Him how much He wishes. More children parents have, Allah subhan wa teala will more increase thier wealth Inshallah, Allahu Akbar.

May Allah guide us all to the right path.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

Salam,

First of all thank you all for your post, advice and opinion.

I am still a little confused because my main question is really like this:

When considering to have a kid, being a loving and caring person, you want to be prepared for that living creation of Allah to enter the world, you want to make sure you can support them, you want to make sure you have time for them, not working and tell the babysitter to raise it, you want to make sure you can feed it, you are healthy enough to raise it etc: all this comes down to being able to do this by PUTTING TRUST IN ALLAH

We and I do trust Allah, but you cant just jump and go do things without thinking or without preparation and say oh Allah will support it and everything will be alright, if im sick I trust Allah and he wont let my child be sick. You cant, there are things involved when trusting Allah, that is pray istikhara, make dua, fear Allah just as you trust him because he will give us trials and tests to go through. Pray, read quran etc.

Being poor, having these little feet / children running around, doesn’t that cause more stress and sadness to the family / parents. So what do they do, you mean they go relax and enjoy themselves with their wives and hope they don’t have kids. I seriously don’t get it.

--i removed this sentence-------


There are a lot of poor people I saw in the documentary they have only 2 children some only 1. There were lots of these small families just like there is in large families. So how do the small families work it out?

If you have AIDS / a transmitted disease and no method of sex protection, honestly, honestly, honestly, would you fall pregnant??????? Would you have 8 kids or would you have one or two / a small family because you care and love them and want to keep them together??? This is what I don’t get. All they seem to care about just because they are poor is sex, what about those innocent kids. You have a right to have kids, everyone has a right, no min or max amount. But you know you are not capable of raising them, or you see yourself too ill and your health will cause them to likely catch it, does this still give them the right to have max amount of kids?

They are not animals their giving birth too, they are precious beautiful creation of Allah. It’s a life, it’s a living human, and I don’t feel they treat it with respect. Watch how hard a 3 year old poor kid works, I cried, how could they do this and cry for help?

What bought my question up is the fact that they cry for help. You know that this is going to happen don’t play dumb, so why make it happen and cry for help.

 

[WithAllahsPowers]

i removed this link because it was wrong for me to post it in the first place. please all forgive me.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, please.

I was a social worker in the most poverty ridden area in the South. Whoever wrote this is a middle class bigot. The article you posted is ridden with uppity ignorance.

There is dignity.

First, how dare people call the poor lazy. You need to study the cycle of poverty and depression.

Sister, please open your heart. Do not judge that which you have no knowledge of. Your statements let me know you need to extend your knowledge of the nature of poverty.

We have no right to judge. Do not fall into middle class attitudes. These values remind me of the overseers of the plantations. You do the dirty work for the rich.

I will just write this. Many times the Prophet of Allah did not have food. And he did have children.

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

I think this thread should be moved in " Sisters only section", because of some posts or questions in this thread.

May Allah guide us all to the right path. Ameen

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, the questions posed are not sensitive to gender. These questions are real concerns about economic realities and the social/anthropological and cultural consequences of civilizations that have forgotten our responsibilities to ourselves.
The Quran and the Hadeets explain delicate physical conditions. There is no shame in discussing our responsibilities in an educated manner. This is a learning process.

This is a discussion about poverty. Poverty is not gender specific.

I am very grateful to the sister for this thread. Insha'Allah, we can gain benefit and understanding.

 

[mezeren]

:salam2:

sister,no one has the right to tell others how many children they should have.Firstly, it is up to Allah and when Allah wishes a child to come to this world, nothing can stop it. Allah is the provider.if you are rich enough today ,do you have a written statement from Allah that says you will not be poor tomorrow?None of us has it ,so,with the fear of being poor we should not have any children?

Actually, we do not need so much to survive, we are made to believe so. if there is poverty somewhere in the world it is because of our greed.Believe me, 10 children can be brought up with the money we spend for our one child.

Today, there are more and more people who can not have children without a treatment. There is a hidden agenda against people of the world by those who want to reduce the world population drastically with means of birth control,food(GM food,junk food...),man made diseases,medicine,vaccines,wars,etc.

The solution is islam as always.The rich have to pay zakat,and the poor must be taken care of.The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) has said "The man is not from me who sleeps contentedly while his neighbors sleep hungry."

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalam Alaikum:

Are not human beings blessed with some autonomy?. Autonomy to choose what is good for them and what is bad for them. Children are blessings from Allah but we can still exercise the autonomy to breed how many children depending upon our capabilities to nourish them and let them grow in optimum conditions.

Many matters and issue are rather to conclude by common sense (gift of Allah to Human beings) without intermingling them with religion.

Regards.

 

[mezeren]

Our perceptions are manipulated by modern life lies.People who have every means to support a large family think that one child is ok,two is more than enough which is literally the end of society.