Renouncing Islam in Malaysia

visionusman

being content
Read the following story and tell me what you think.

"A Malaysian Chinese couple are considering taking legal action against a hospital for sending them home with the wrong baby nearly 30 years ago.

The couple, who had always suspected a mix-up, were reunited with their biological son after a chance meeting in a shopping centre.

But the family may now face a battle with Malaysia's religious authorities.

As well as taking a Chinese name, the son wants to renounce Islam - something which is very difficult in Malaysia."

My point of view on the matter is that renouncing Islam is an act of treason in Islam. The people who object to the punishment Islam has set forth for this crime in an Islamic country, should remind themselves that even the states who claim to champion the cause of Human Rights, have the capital punishment for acts of treason; for instance if an American is caught fighting the coalition in Afghanistan.
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
As Salaamu Alaykum
The man should be given a mental examination (to see if he's not insane). Afterwards, he should get 3 chances to renounce his ways and join Islam again. If not, then let him go. I haven't seen any references in the Qur'an or Hadith about killing a man for it, and neither have some scholars it seems like.
 

shaz_1999

Junior Member
I c where ur cumin 4rm but at da end of da day wen or if he sees sense he will wnt 2becme a muslim again, we should pray dat he will be shown da rite path.

Also hw do we knw dis iz true we hav no evidence of it I have only just herd bat it and am finkin hav ppl made it up or nt. Im not so sure.

Anyway if it is true den he still hasnt turnd away 4rm Islam yet so Inshallah he will be shwn da rite path.
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
I haven't seen any references in the Qur'an or Hadith about killing a man for it, and neither have some scholars it seems like.

The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

It is well-known in Sharee’ah that the punishments (hudood) are not carried out on minors, because they have not yet reached the age of responsibility; but in the case of those who have reached the age of responsibility, the punishment (hadd) applies, without a doubt.

The person who knows the truth and believes in it, then turns his back on it, does not deserve to live. The punishment for apostasy is prescribed for the protection of the religion and as a deterrent to anyone who is thinking of leaving Islaam. There is no doubt that such a serious crime must be met with an equally weighty punishment. If the kuffaar do not give people the freedom to cross a red light, how can we give freedom to people to leave Islaam and disbelieve in Allaah when they want to?


May Allaah make you and us bearers of His Message and defenders of His Sharee’ah.




Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
As Salaamu Alaykum
"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

I've read about someone disproving that one saying that Muhammad :)saw:) wouldn't have said that and not have killed all the Sahabah (who changed their religion to Islam).
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?

Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?​
Question:
As a non Muslim, I find myself Intrigued and attracted to your faith. However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking( Salman Rushdie). I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

We thank you for your confidence in us and for sending this question to us, and we appreciate your being intrigued by our beliefs and your eagerness to find out the answer. We welcome you as a visitor and reader and learner.

What stood out from your letter is that you are impressed with the religion of Islam. This is a good sign for us and for you. We are happy for our religion to reach people like you who are seeking for the truth. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that this religion would reach all places on this earth. It was narrated that Tameem al-Daari said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘This matter (i.e., Islam) will certainly reach everywhere that night and day reach, and Allaah will not leave any house or tent [i.e., all dwellings, in towns and in the desert], but Allaah will cause this religion to enter it, and some people will be honoured because of it [by converting] and others will be humiliated because of it [for refusing to embrace it], and they will be ruled by the Muslims, an honour which Allaah will bestow on Islam and a humiliation which He will inflict on kufr (disbelief).”

(Narrated by Ahmad, 16344; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 3).

In your case, your admiration for Islam will motivate you to find out what this pure monotheistic religion teaches, and how it is in accordance with sound human nature and common sense. We advise you to avoid completely and preconceptions that may influence you and take your time in reading about the teachings of the Islamic religion. Perhaps you could read material on this site about Islam, such as questions no. 219, 21613, 20756, 10590.

With regard to your question, “However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking. I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can” – what you say is correct, because no-one has the right to condemn another person to death without evidence from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

The ruling of execution because of a word that somebody utters is what the Muslim scholars call al-riddah (apostasy). What is apostasy and what constitutes apostasy? What is the ruling on the apostate (al-murtadd)?

1 – Riddah (apostasy) refers to when a Muslim becomes a disbeliever by saying a clear statement to that effect, or by uttering words which imply that (i.e., which imply kufr or disbelief), or he does something that implies that (i.e., an action which implies kufr or disbelief).

2 – What constitutes apostasy

The matters which constitute apostasy are divided into four categories:

(a) Apostasy in beliefs, such as associating others with Allaah, denying Him, or denying an attribute which is proven to be one of His attributes, or by affirming that Allaah has a son. Whoever believes that is an apostate and a disbeliever.

(b) Apostasy in words, such as insulting Allaah or the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

(c) Apostasy in actions, such as throwing the Qur’an into a filthy place, because doing that shows disrespect towards the words of Allaah, so it is a sign that one does not believe. Other such actions include prostrating to an idol or to the sun or moon.

(d) Apostasy by omission, such as not doing any of the rituals of Islam, or turning away from following it altogether.

3 – What is the ruling on the apostate?

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.

The evidence that the apostate is to be executed is the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)

See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, 22/180.

Thus it will be clear to you that execution of the apostate is something that is commanded by Allaah, when he commanded us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority”

[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”

It may need some time for you to be convinced about this matter, and for you to think about it. Perhaps you think that if a person follows the truth and enters into it and embraces the one true religion which Allaah has enjoined, then we allow him to leave it quite easily whenever he wants and to utter the words of kufr (disbelief) that put him outside of Islam, so he can reject Allaah, His Messenger, His Books and His religion, and there is no punishment as deterrent, how will that affect him and others who enter the religion?

Do you not see that this would make the one true religion, that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth.

Moreover, this is not someone who has never known the truth and practiced it and worshipped in accordance with it; rather this is a person who has known the truth, and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is no greater than he deserves. Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applied to such a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and followed the religion, then he left it and forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person?

In conclusion, the answer is that Allaah is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allaah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.

May Allaah help us and you to do that which He loves and which pleases Him. We thank you once again.

Peace be upon those who follow true guidance.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
 

Dawoodi

Junior Member
salam walaikum w

This is so simple.


what’s the punishment for the sheitan? the one who after he had believe and new the truth decided to cover it up and treason or beloved Allah Subhanah wata'allah?

Is it dead? And hell? weo ... dose this only apply to the jinn? or to the humans sheitans too?.

the answer is logical that after a person who has believe in Islam and neglect this truth he must be punish for it.

this disbelieve has so many implications because after a person commits apostasy he would not rest until other Muslims leave Islam or will try to confuse other Muslims too.

the one who neglects Islam simple becomes a sheitan and evil person.

as some one say if any secular country punish with death any person that betray his mother land and we are talking here of secular politics and government, what would it be the punishment for the one who treason his brothers and sisters and moreover Allah ta'allah and his prophet?.

Allah subhanah wata'allah knows best.

:SMILY209:
 

Child of GOD

Junior Member
That is just soooooo totally unjust to KILL cuz of someone renouncing the islam faith,,that is where OUR GOD draws the line...whatever or whoever one worships in life is their decision however wrong or bad it may be, and yes even as a christian it is my duty to show them the right way however to MURDER someone cuz of this just shows the difference of compassion between christians and muslims,,,God is the FINAL JUDGE ,,, not any of us,,It IS NOT up to us to judge..........we only can pray and try to show any person the truth and the light, WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MURDER FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE A CHOICE AT THAT PERSONS EXPENSE, THATS JUST ludicrous,,give me a break and everyone says the christians are wrong,,thank you for showing me your true selves in its ok by ALLAH to murder one who freely chooses what religion to follow,,you have know idea how that makes muslims look...and you wonder why people don't trust muslims geezzzz
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
As Salaamu Alaykum
Well, get over it. People are killed every day by governments because they help another government. People are in fact killed because they convert away from Christianity (though it is wrong) in some places.

Islam isn't just a religion, it's a way of life and it's a government. Therefore, the Apostate is seen as a traitor, and traitors get killed. Should you not agree with the fact that traitors should be killed, then you will renounce every single government in history and also you will renounce the Union during the Civil War.

HOWEVER, know that it isn't as simple as: "You converted to Christianity! You die now!". In the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) tells us that Moses (PBUH) was with a man who killed a youth. Later, the man told Moses that the boy was an unbeliever and that he constantly messed up the unity of the pious.

Musaylama, the man who claimed to be prophet after Muhammad :)saw:), started fighting the Muslims first. Therefore, Physical Jihad came into play (defending yourself against attacks).

So, if a man is as peaceful as heck and he converts away from Islam, then he doesn't die immediatly, if at all. Usually, people are put to death because they are constantly trying to disturb the Muslims' Unity.

Even then, only Apostates are to be killed if they do this. Missionaries and Preachers are not to be killed.
 

Child of GOD

Junior Member
There has NEVER been one report in THE UNITED STATES of anyone stooping so low as to MURDER a christian cuz he/she converted to some other religion,,get your facts straight
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
As Salaamu Alaykum
Know that the Hadith are sometimes everlasting, and are sometimes not. The Prophet :)saw:) said things in tune with the revelations revealed to him. Remember that Allah Alone can abrogate Himself (as in change His commands). So, the command may have changed.

If we look at Islam back then, we see that it was a large political and military movement back then. Now, it has no reason to be (as we aren't in an extremely large Physical Jihad, Allah be praised). Should a man convert away from Islam during the time of Muhammad :)saw:), then he should be killed because he would have gone back to the Pagans and helped the Pagans against the Muslims.

HOWEVER, nowadays, it can be different. It is different. A man who converts from Islam and is peaceful about it shouldn't be killed, but a man who converts from Islam and tries to hurt the Muslims physically, then he should be killed (for it is true Physical Jihad to defend yourself).

The Hadith's commands may or may not be everlasting, but the Qur'an's commands are. The Qur'an doesn't say to kill the Apostates, mind you.
 

Child of GOD

Junior Member
There has NEVER been one report of a person being MURDERED in the UNITED STATES for switching to a different religion..that is JUST SICK!,,,WHY not start MURDERING people cuz they eat apples or cuz they drive a truck and not a car,,be realistic,,that is so BARBARIC.
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
There has NEVER been one report in THE UNITED STATES of anyone stooping so low as to MURDER a christian cuz he/she converted to some other religion,,get your facts straight

As Salaamu Alaykum
99.9% of the Christians today aren't "Christians", especially since the women don't wear Hijabs (ordered by Paul to do so), aren't silent until the male orders them to speak (ordered by Paul to do so), pray 24/7 except when eating or sleeping (ordered by Paul), and they eat pork (forbidden in the Old Testament).

Look at this, though:
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
 

visionusman

being content
That is just soooooo totally unjust to KILL cuz of someone renouncing the islam faith,,that is where OUR GOD draws the line...whatever or whoever one worships in life is their decision however wrong or bad it may be, and yes even as a christian it is my duty to show them the right way however to MURDER someone cuz of this just shows the difference of compassion between christians and muslims,,,God is the FINAL JUDGE ,,, not any of us,,It IS NOT up to us to judge..........we only can pray and try to show any person the truth and the light, WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MURDER FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE A CHOICE AT THAT PERSONS EXPENSE, THATS JUST ludicrous,,give me a break and everyone says the christians are wrong,,thank you for showing me your true selves in its ok by ALLAH to murder one who freely chooses what religion to follow,,you have know idea how that makes muslims look...and you wonder why people don't trust muslims geezzzz
Your Lord and mine are not different. We both believe in the one Allmighty. As for the capital punishment; remember it is a punishment that is pronounced after a due legal process. In an Islamic state (which by the way unfortunately does not exist), the Islamic law allows for the death sentence for acts of treason.

This was made incumbent for those people who after accepting Islam and spending time with the Prophet SAW in the muslim state of Medina, at the time of wars or trials switched their allegience and sided with the Quraish of Mecca. This was treason and the muslim state suffered immensely because the people who did this also acted as spies narrating secrets of war (such as how many people had prepared for war, how many horses and what kinds of weaponry they had at their disposal). So you see this was a a punishment for treason. Still is. That is why I ask you what will happen to an American who converts to Islam and decides to fight the coalition in Iraq and actually kills a few american soldiers in the process? Will there not be calls for the capital punishment for this man? Why did Bush say that the world was better off after the execution of Saddam. I am opposed to Saddam myself, and by the way did not think it wrong that he faced the death sentence, however Bush claims to be a devout catholic. Yet he did not condemn the death sentence. Instead rejoiced in it. I support the death sentence and therefore do not feel the need to be two faced. yet you expect the rest of the world to trust America? Cool!
 

Child of GOD

Junior Member
As Salaamu Alaykum
99.9% of the Christians today aren't "Christians", especially since the women don't wear Hijabs (ordered by Paul), are silent until the male orders them to speak (ordered by Paul), pray 24/7 except when eating or sleeping (ordered by Paul), and they eat pork (forbidden in the OT).QUOTEEEEEEE



AGAIN BACK to the an old thread where someone said women are not oppressed,,now you by that quote are proving me right, women are oppressed,,NO WHERE in the Bible does it say women have to WEAR hijabs or have to be silent....The book of RUth , strong woman in faith,, Esther in the Bible was a wise strong woman.....and the pork thing back then was simply cuz of disease, modern technology has taken that factor out,,,,God told us that so we wouldn't get sick,,now modern day age has taken the factor of sickness out which was really the main reason to not eat pork!....Christian women WERE NEVER ordered to wear hijabs...and YES I AM A CHRISTIAN!!
At least I would never MURDER someone for changing faiths or having a different faith than mine,,,like I said 3 or 4 times nows,,"GOD AND GOD ALONE IS OUR JUDGE AND JURY,,GOD WILL DECIDE OUR PUNISHMENT NOT A simple man! We can only pray and try to show the light and the truth to those that stray. Bottom line, every person has FREE WILL,,,ITS up to them to make the right decisions or risk being left out of Gods kingdom eternally.
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
AGAIN BACK to the an old thread where someone said women are not oppressed,,now you by that quote are proving me right, women are oppressed,,NO WHERE in the Bible does it say women have to WEAR hijabs or have to be silent....The book of RUth , strong woman in faith,, Esther in the Bible was a wise strong woman.....and the pork thing back then was simply cuz of disease, modern technology has taken that factor out,,,,God told us that so we wouldn't get sick,,now modern day age has taken the factor of sickness out which was really the main reason to not eat pork!....Christian women WERE NEVER ordered to wear hijabs...and YES I AM A CHRISTIAN!!
At least I would never MURDER someone for changing faiths or having a different faith than mine,,,like I said 3 or 4 times nows,,"GOD AND GOD ALONE IS OUR JUDGE AND JURY,,GOD WILL DECIDE OUR PUNISHMENT NOT A simple man! We can only pray and try to show the light and the truth to those that stray. Bottom line, every person has FREE WILL,,,ITS up to them to make the right decisions or risk being left out of Gods kingdom eternally.

As Salaamu Alaykum
I understand your position. Allah Willing, I'll show you the verses where Paul orderes those things.

Also, remember what I have written in my second post on this page. There was a reason for killing Apostates, but now that reason is void so killing Apostates shouldn't be necessary unless the Apostate is going to try to hurt the Muslims physically. The words in the Hadith apply to a certain situation sometimes, while the words of the Qur'an apply everywhere, everytime (unless there is an exception mentioned in the Qur'an).
 

visionusman

being content
As Salaamu Alaykum
99.9% of the Christians today aren't "Christians", especially since the women don't wear Hijabs (ordered by Paul to do so), aren't silent until the male orders them to speak (ordered by Paul to do so), pray 24/7 except when eating or sleeping (ordered by Paul), and they eat pork (forbidden in the Old Testament).

Look at this, though:
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
Please stop this. We do not want to be in an argument with christains that they are wrong. Only justify our stance. Arguments are usually counter productive. To Child of God I would suggest that she reads my last message on this thread.

I welcome an intelligent exchange of views. Not arguments.
 
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