tasbi
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OsMaN_93
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Misbaha
A misbaha (Arabic: مسبحة), subha (Arabic:سبحة), or tespih (Turkish) is a string of prayer beads, probably of Persian origin, which is traditionally used by Muslims to keep track of counting in tasbih.
Use
A misbaha is a tool used to perform dhikr, including the 99 Names of Allah, and the glorification of God after regular prayer. A popular recitation might include Subhan Allah (glory be to God), Al-hamdulillah (praise to God) and Allahu Akbar (God is great), each repeated 33 times.
It is often made of wooden beads, but also of olive seeds, ivory, amber, pearls or plastic. A misbaha usually consists of 99 beads, or sometimes 33 beads (in which case one cycles through them 3 times to equal 99)
Alternative Names
The Misbaha is also known as Tasbih (تسبيح) -not to be confused with Tasbih a type of dhikr-in non-Arab Muslim regions or Sibha in some Arabic dialects e.g. Libyan Arabic. In Turkey, the beads are known as Tespih.
Tasbih (تسبيح) is a form of dhikr that involves the repetitive utterances of short sentences glorifying God. The term can also be used loosely to refer to any kind of dhikr.[citation needed] To keep track of counting either the phalanges of the right hand or a misbaha is used.
A misbaha (Arabic: مسبحة), subha (Arabic:سبحة), or tespih (Turkish) is a string of prayer beads, probably of Persian origin, which is traditionally used by Muslims to keep track of counting in tasbih.
Use
A misbaha is a tool used to perform dhikr, including the 99 Names of Allah, and the glorification of God after regular prayer. A popular recitation might include Subhan Allah (glory be to God), Al-hamdulillah (praise to God) and Allahu Akbar (God is great), each repeated 33 times.
It is often made of wooden beads, but also of olive seeds, ivory, amber, pearls or plastic. A misbaha usually consists of 99 beads, or sometimes 33 beads (in which case one cycles through them 3 times to equal 99)
Alternative Names
The Misbaha is also known as Tasbih (تسبيح) -not to be confused with Tasbih a type of dhikr-in non-Arab Muslim regions or Sibha in some Arabic dialects e.g. Libyan Arabic. In Turkey, the beads are known as Tespih.
Tasbih (تسبيح) is a form of dhikr that involves the repetitive utterances of short sentences glorifying God. The term can also be used loosely to refer to any kind of dhikr.[citation needed] To keep track of counting either the phalanges of the right hand or a misbaha is used.
As-salaamu `alaykum warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh.
Firstly, I have removed much from the above most, due to unfound claims, lack of evidence and plain simple errors which contradict the beloved Sunnah of our Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. I know that it was taken from the infamous Encyclopaedia whose authors are any one off the street, but I seriously caution people to study from that site, seeing as ANYONE can write whatever crap they want on there.
The Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam said,
This is the wording of the hadeeth in Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree. Muslim reports that the Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam said word to the effect of,
As the above wiki-definitions point our, the Tasbeeh refers to the usage of some stringed beads for dhikr. However, more correctly Tasbeeh simply means Glorifying Allaah, i.e. saying Subhaan Allaah. It is just as Tasmee means saying the Basmallaah. Just as Takbeer means to declare Allaah's greatness by saying Allaahu Akbar. Just as Tahleel means saying Laa ilaha ila Allaah, and just as Tasleem means saying As-salaamu `alaykum and so-on and so-forth. However, many people primarily use the term Tasbeeh to refer to the object of beads, date stones and pebbles for dhikr, which is therefore what needs to be discussed. Imaam Ad-Daarimee recorded the hadeeth of Aboo Moosaa Al-Ash`aree, may Allaah be pleased with him, that he said to `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, when he was the governor of Basrah,
The narrator of this hadeeth, `Amr Ibn Salamah mentioned that these same people fought along with the khawaarij against the companions in the battle of Nahrawaan. The hadeeth has been declared Saheeh by Shaykh Al-Albaanee. It is also worth mentioning that Ibn Taymiyyah said that the Muslim scholars consider the sects that follow their vain desires and by this, defy the Prophetic Law and the consensus of Muslims, as being amongst the khawaarij.
The above was taken from an excellent but lengthly discourse by our brother, Jalal Abualrub, may Allaah reward him for his efforts, entitled "Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab His Lifestory and Mission".
There is also another Saheeh hadeeth, according to Shaykh Al-Albaanee wherein `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood saw many people using different types of objects for tasbeeh, and he adamantly opposed and prevented all of them (from such acts). The hadeeth has been mentioned by Al-Qurtubee, which I'll cite later inshaa' Allaah. Why was this noble companion so harsh against this practice? Because innovation in the religion is a means of destruction, and at the same time, the authentic Sunnah of the Prophet, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam tells us that we should use our hands for dhikr of Allaah,
For further reading, please read this article or clarification, Did Imaam As-Suyootee Support Using Dhikr Beads.
Firstly, I have removed much from the above most, due to unfound claims, lack of evidence and plain simple errors which contradict the beloved Sunnah of our Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. I know that it was taken from the infamous Encyclopaedia whose authors are any one off the street, but I seriously caution people to study from that site, seeing as ANYONE can write whatever crap they want on there.
The Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam said,
"Whoever introduces into this matter of ours (religion) that which is not from it, will have it rejected."
This is the wording of the hadeeth in Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree. Muslim reports that the Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam said word to the effect of,
"Whoever does a deed that is not in accordance with this matter of ours, will have it rejected".
As the above wiki-definitions point our, the Tasbeeh refers to the usage of some stringed beads for dhikr. However, more correctly Tasbeeh simply means Glorifying Allaah, i.e. saying Subhaan Allaah. It is just as Tasmee means saying the Basmallaah. Just as Takbeer means to declare Allaah's greatness by saying Allaahu Akbar. Just as Tahleel means saying Laa ilaha ila Allaah, and just as Tasleem means saying As-salaamu `alaykum and so-on and so-forth. However, many people primarily use the term Tasbeeh to refer to the object of beads, date stones and pebbles for dhikr, which is therefore what needs to be discussed. Imaam Ad-Daarimee recorded the hadeeth of Aboo Moosaa Al-Ash`aree, may Allaah be pleased with him, that he said to `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, when he was the governor of Basrah,
"O Aboo `Abdur-Rahmaan! I saw something in the Masjid which I did not recognise. However, I think that what I saw is good, all thanks to Allaah." `Adullaah Ibn Mas`ood inquired as to what the matter was and Aboo Moosaa Al-Ash`aree answered by saying, "In the Masjid, I saw some men, with their heads shaven (a characteristic that the Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam affiliated with the Khawaarij, see Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree 7007), sitting in groups, awaiting the prayer to start. Each group of men held stones in their hands and a man, the leader of the group would say to them, 'Say takbeer a hundred times', and they would recite takbeer a hundred times... The man would then order them to say Tahleel a hundred times, and they would recite it a hundred times. He would then order them to say Tasbeeh a hundred times, and they would recite it a hundred times." `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood asked if Aboo Moosaa if he said anything to those men, and Aboo Moosaa answered in the negative saying, "I waited for your opinion and your command."
Ibn Mas`ood said, "Why did you not order them to count their sins, and assured them that none of their good deeds will ever be lost."
`Abdullaah, Aboo Moosaa and others, went to the Masjid then to one of the groups and `Abdullaah asked them, "What is that which I see you doing?"
They said, "O Aboo `Abdur-Rahmaan! These are stones with which we count Takbeer, Tahleel and Tasbeeh."
`Abdullaah said, "Then count your evil deeds, and I assure you, none of your good deeds will ever be lost. Woe to you, Ummah of Muhammad, how fast you march towards your destruction (since innovations in the religion are a means of destruction)! These are the companions of your Prophet, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam, still plenty around (meaning that the people should take knowledge from them, refer to them, for they were the students of the Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam). These are his clothes, they have not been worn off yet, and his pots and plates have not broken yet. By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You either follow a better guidance than that of Muhammad, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. Or else, you are opening a door to Dalaalah (misguidance; the Messenger, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam said that every bid`ah or innovation is a dalaalah. See Saheeh Muslim)."
They said, "O, Aboo `Abdur-Rahmaan, by Allaah! We only wanted to do that which is good."
He said, "How many a person who seeks to do righteously good, but does not achieve that (since they innovate into the deen, acts that will gain them no reward). The Messenger of Allaah, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam, told us that some people will come, who would recite the Qur'aan, but it will not reach beyond their throats (another characteristic of the Khawaarij that has been agreed upon. This means that they would not understand/act upon the Qur'aan)." `Abdullaah then parted with them.
Ibn Mas`ood said, "Why did you not order them to count their sins, and assured them that none of their good deeds will ever be lost."
`Abdullaah, Aboo Moosaa and others, went to the Masjid then to one of the groups and `Abdullaah asked them, "What is that which I see you doing?"
They said, "O Aboo `Abdur-Rahmaan! These are stones with which we count Takbeer, Tahleel and Tasbeeh."
`Abdullaah said, "Then count your evil deeds, and I assure you, none of your good deeds will ever be lost. Woe to you, Ummah of Muhammad, how fast you march towards your destruction (since innovations in the religion are a means of destruction)! These are the companions of your Prophet, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam, still plenty around (meaning that the people should take knowledge from them, refer to them, for they were the students of the Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam). These are his clothes, they have not been worn off yet, and his pots and plates have not broken yet. By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You either follow a better guidance than that of Muhammad, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. Or else, you are opening a door to Dalaalah (misguidance; the Messenger, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam said that every bid`ah or innovation is a dalaalah. See Saheeh Muslim)."
They said, "O, Aboo `Abdur-Rahmaan, by Allaah! We only wanted to do that which is good."
He said, "How many a person who seeks to do righteously good, but does not achieve that (since they innovate into the deen, acts that will gain them no reward). The Messenger of Allaah, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam, told us that some people will come, who would recite the Qur'aan, but it will not reach beyond their throats (another characteristic of the Khawaarij that has been agreed upon. This means that they would not understand/act upon the Qur'aan)." `Abdullaah then parted with them.
The narrator of this hadeeth, `Amr Ibn Salamah mentioned that these same people fought along with the khawaarij against the companions in the battle of Nahrawaan. The hadeeth has been declared Saheeh by Shaykh Al-Albaanee. It is also worth mentioning that Ibn Taymiyyah said that the Muslim scholars consider the sects that follow their vain desires and by this, defy the Prophetic Law and the consensus of Muslims, as being amongst the khawaarij.
The above was taken from an excellent but lengthly discourse by our brother, Jalal Abualrub, may Allaah reward him for his efforts, entitled "Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab His Lifestory and Mission".
There is also another Saheeh hadeeth, according to Shaykh Al-Albaanee wherein `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood saw many people using different types of objects for tasbeeh, and he adamantly opposed and prevented all of them (from such acts). The hadeeth has been mentioned by Al-Qurtubee, which I'll cite later inshaa' Allaah. Why was this noble companion so harsh against this practice? Because innovation in the religion is a means of destruction, and at the same time, the authentic Sunnah of the Prophet, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam tells us that we should use our hands for dhikr of Allaah,
"...and count using the joints of your fingers, because they will be asked and they will testify"
[Saheeh Sunan At-Tirmidhee (2835)]
[Saheeh Sunan At-Tirmidhee (2835)]
For further reading, please read this article or clarification, Did Imaam As-Suyootee Support Using Dhikr Beads.
junaid hasan
Banned
Which practise means you akhi?Using beads?
For doing zikr is using the finger sunnah. But if anyone is doing with tasbih then its not haram and also not bidaa. It was proved by some action of sahaba(rd). I personally keep one in my pocket, because whenever i see it , i remember that i must do zikr. And i start to do zikr by using finger. Its a normal issue, there is nothing to say someone as a bidati or other things.
I am just quoting some evidence of the practise of sahaba(rd).
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From Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas that he entered with the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) upon a woman and between her hands was a Nawaa (seeds, pebbles) or Hasaa (stones or pebbles) that she was [counting] tasbeeh with…"
This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At-Tirmithi who said, "Hasan Ghareeb from the hadeeth of Sa'ad". It is also reported by Imaam Abu Daawood in his Sunan, Imaam An Nasaa'i, Ibn Hibbaan, and Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said. "Its isnaad is Saheeh, and [they i.e. Bukhaari and muslim] did not report it" and Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.
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From Safiyyah who said, " The Messenger of Allah (saaws) entered upon me and between my hands were four thousand Nawaah (stones or seeds) [that I was making] tasbeeh with. The Nabi said, "You are making tasbeeh with this?! Shall I not teach you that which is greater than this tasbeeh?!" So I said, "Teach me!" So He said, "Say, Subhaan Allah 'Adada Khaliqih".
This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At Tirmithi who said after it, "Ghareeb, I only know the hadeeth of Safiyyah by this direction…"
It was also reported by Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said, "[This] Hadeeth is Saheeh and they did not report it." And Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was also authenticated by Imaam As-Suyooti.
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Imaam Ash-Shawkaani states in his Nayl Al Awtaar that these two ahadeeth are proof of the permissibility of counting the Tasbeeh with seeds, stones, or the likes and that is because of the approval of the Nabi (sallallahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam) of these two women using them.
Imaam Ahmad in his "Zuhd" says: "'Affaan informed us, Abdul Waahid ibn Ziyaad informed us from Yunus ibn 'Ubayd, from His mother who said, "I saw Abaa Safiyyah – [who] was a man from the Sahabah of the Messenger of Allah (saaws) and he was a treasurer – She said he would make Tasbeeh with stones."
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Ibn Sa'ad reports from Hukaym ibn Daylami that Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas would make Tasbeeh with stones. [At Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]
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Ibn Sa'ad said in At-Tabaqaat, Abdillah ibn Musaa informed us, Israa'eel informed us, from Jaabir from his female servant from Faatimah bint Al Husayn ibn Ali ibn Abi Taalib that she would make Tasbeeh with a string with knots in it. [Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]
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Imaam Abdillah ibn Imaam Ahmad reports through Abu Hurayrah in Zawaa'id Az Zuhd from Abu Hurayrah that he had a rope with a hundred knots in it, and he would not sleep until he had made Tasbeeh with it.
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Imaam Ahmad reports in Az-Zuhd from Al Qaasim ibn Abdur Rahmaan who said that Abi Dardaa' had seeds from pressed dates in a bag. When he had made morning Salah, he would remove one by one from it (the bag), making Tasbeeh with them, until they had finished. [Az-Zuhd page 205]
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Ibn Sa'ad reports that Abu Hurayrah would make Tasbeeh with a collection of seeds (or pebbles). [ Tabaqaat 106/3 or 346/6]
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Imaam Ad-Daylami reports in his Musnad Al Firdaws from the way of Zaynab bint Sulaymaan ibn 'Ali, from Umm Al Hasan bint Ja'far, from her father, from her grandfather, from Ali ibn Abi Taalib marfoo'an: "Yes! Al Muththakir [I reminder you to use] the Subhah!" [Musnad Al Firdaws bi Ma'thoor Al Khitaab]
junaid hasan
Banned
Akhi i thing you mean this one.
قال ابن وضاح القرطبي في البدع والنهي عنها (ص12) : أنا أسد عن جرير بن حازم عن الصلت بن بهرام قال : مر ابن مسعود بامرأة معها تسبيح تسبح به فقطعه وألقاه ، ثم مر برجل يسبح بحصى فضربه برجله ، ثم قال : لقد سبقتم ، ركبتم بدعة ظلماً ، أو لقد غلبتم أصحاب محمد (ص) علماً .
Narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid' wa'l-Nahy 'anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: 'Ibn Mas'ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, "You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid'ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)!"'
This hadeeth is weak due to Inqitaa' (disconnection) between As-Salt ibn Bahraam and Ibn Mas'ood. As-Salt is from the taabi't taabi'oon (second generation after the sahabah) and not from the taabi'oon, and this is mentioned in At-Tahtheeb At-Tahtheeb of Ibn Hajr. (Cant remember the page nuber(sorry)
Even if this hadeeth were Saheeh, then there is no proof in the action of a Sahabi if it contradicts the Sunnah of Rasoolullah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). AS i have allready quote practise of other sahabas(rd)
Baarak Allaah feekum.
But remember akhi, that in matters of dispute, especially amongst the companions, then it is better to take and stick to the guidance of the Messenger, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam. And from his guidance is that he used his fingers. Also, many of those ahaadeeth which state and indicate the usage of such beads are known for not being authentic. In additon, one cannot deny that such beads came by way of another religion/culture. When studying the matter, I read that they had been brought from the East by Nestorian Chirstians. So I ask you what is better, to follow something that came from revelation, or to refer to ahaadeeth in which the authenticity is disputed? What I'm saying is that the tasbeeh (meaning the dhikr beads) is a matter of dispute, so why don't we stick to what is clearly authentic? As for the Imaams of past and present then it's known that they differed on the subject. Putting this aside, one can avoid such differing by using the fingers. In the above cited hadeeth, we are informed that the fingers that do dhikr will testify... Will this be as such for the one who uses other than his fingers?
Please take the time to read the short discourse I linked to above about Imaam As-Suyootee. Also, it is worth seeing what exactly the muhadditheen have said, i mean you quoted Imaam Al-Haakim's book, Al-Mustadarak. Yet it is an established fact that in that latter part of his life, he became forgetful. I believe Shaykh Muqbil Ibn Hadee Al-Waadi`ee spoke about the ahaadeeth in this book. Likewise, it's worth seeing the speech of Shaykh Al-Albaanee about the ahaadeeth.
Repeating what I said, The Imaam's have differed greatly on this subject, hence the practice of the Messenger, sal-Allahu `alayhi wasallam is far better.
Allaah knows best.
But remember akhi, that in matters of dispute, especially amongst the companions, then it is better to take and stick to the guidance of the Messenger, sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam. And from his guidance is that he used his fingers. Also, many of those ahaadeeth which state and indicate the usage of such beads are known for not being authentic. In additon, one cannot deny that such beads came by way of another religion/culture. When studying the matter, I read that they had been brought from the East by Nestorian Chirstians. So I ask you what is better, to follow something that came from revelation, or to refer to ahaadeeth in which the authenticity is disputed? What I'm saying is that the tasbeeh (meaning the dhikr beads) is a matter of dispute, so why don't we stick to what is clearly authentic? As for the Imaams of past and present then it's known that they differed on the subject. Putting this aside, one can avoid such differing by using the fingers. In the above cited hadeeth, we are informed that the fingers that do dhikr will testify... Will this be as such for the one who uses other than his fingers?
There is another narration whose meaning he has combined into this statement about Abu Hurayrah, that is reported via Ikrimah from Abu Hurayrah that he said, "Astaghfrullaah" twelve thousand times, but this report is disconnected after Ikrimah, for he is not known by the Hadeeth Scholars to have actually heard from Abu Hurayrah. (See Al Inaabah by Ibn Hajar). Nevertheless, it does not mention Dhikr beads at all. So it has nothing to do with this discussion either way. As for the narration about the string with Abu Hurayrah, it is weak because its chain contains Nu'aym Ibn Muharrar, whose condition among hadeeth narrators is that of an unknown...
...As for the Hadeeth reported on the Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) on the authority of Alee (Radiya ‘Llahu 'anhu) mentioning the Subhah (mentioned here in case one finds it being used as "evidence") it is a famous weak report. There is a very useful and helpful discussion of its unknown and fabricating narrators which may be viewed in Silsilah-Al-Ahaadeeth Ad Da'eefah no. 83 by Al Albaanee.
...As for the Hadeeth reported on the Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) on the authority of Alee (Radiya ‘Llahu 'anhu) mentioning the Subhah (mentioned here in case one finds it being used as "evidence") it is a famous weak report. There is a very useful and helpful discussion of its unknown and fabricating narrators which may be viewed in Silsilah-Al-Ahaadeeth Ad Da'eefah no. 83 by Al Albaanee.
Please take the time to read the short discourse I linked to above about Imaam As-Suyootee. Also, it is worth seeing what exactly the muhadditheen have said, i mean you quoted Imaam Al-Haakim's book, Al-Mustadarak. Yet it is an established fact that in that latter part of his life, he became forgetful. I believe Shaykh Muqbil Ibn Hadee Al-Waadi`ee spoke about the ahaadeeth in this book. Likewise, it's worth seeing the speech of Shaykh Al-Albaanee about the ahaadeeth.
Repeating what I said, The Imaam's have differed greatly on this subject, hence the practice of the Messenger, sal-Allahu `alayhi wasallam is far better.
Allaah knows best.
wa`alaykum salaam...
Allaah knows best, many of the scholars have said in the case of forgetfulness, to use the beads. Now they have tally-counters and all sorts! May Allaah make it easy for you, ameen. No this ain't a debate, we just presenting the proofs and different statements... alhamdulillaah me and my brother Junaid talk to eachother sensibley, having love for eachother and the truth, may Allaah direct us to it!
Allaah knows best, many of the scholars have said in the case of forgetfulness, to use the beads. Now they have tally-counters and all sorts! May Allaah make it easy for you, ameen. No this ain't a debate, we just presenting the proofs and different statements... alhamdulillaah me and my brother Junaid talk to eachother sensibley, having love for eachother and the truth, may Allaah direct us to it!
bintul islam
biz musulmanikh
wb brother,May Allah sw reward you for enlightening us! I agree with you. I have also read a hadith that said the Prophet asw used to make tasbih using his right hand so this supports the hadith you quoted.
I kept on losing my tasbih, now I probably wont bother finding it, but who would have thought a string of beads used for keeping count can be an innovation? And Allah sw knows best as to the true ruling concerning tasbihs.
My personal opinion as to why using the fingers is the sunnah rather than some beads is that when one uses his/her fingers, they are more cautious of keeping count (hence actually concentrate on what they are saying) but when they use the tasbih, they dont worry and are careless as they know they have done a complete round when they hit the end of the tasbihs.
q8penpals
Junior Member
Salam
I think they are ok if you are legitimately using them to keep count.
BUT I hate the way in kuwait the men (I have never seen women using them, inside the house or out) sit and flip them, and jiggle them, and play with them CONSTANTLY!!! I am sorry, I have a hard time believing that they are actually praying during parent-teacher conferences when they are talking to me and all I hear is a constant :clickclickclickclickclickclick as they keep flipping the beads back and forth and back and forth. **AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*** it drives me crazy!!!! :angryred:
Lana
I think they are ok if you are legitimately using them to keep count.
BUT I hate the way in kuwait the men (I have never seen women using them, inside the house or out) sit and flip them, and jiggle them, and play with them CONSTANTLY!!! I am sorry, I have a hard time believing that they are actually praying during parent-teacher conferences when they are talking to me and all I hear is a constant :clickclickclickclickclickclick as they keep flipping the beads back and forth and back and forth. **AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*** it drives me crazy!!!! :angryred:
Lana
junaid hasan
Banned
Absolute akhi, 100% agree. My intention was not to calling this as bidah. As practise of sahaba present. There is also somethign which called mubah.
Baarak Allaahu feekum.
I'm glad there's people like you on these forums who can discuss and agree, instead of uselessly battling points of ikhtilaaf. As for calling it a bid`ah, then all I was doing was summarising the footnotes of the source into brackets within the hadeeth of `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood, may Allaah be pleased with him. The footnotes seemed relevent as they clearly linked the sayings of Ibn Mas`ood to authentic narrations of the Prophet sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam. However, the post was already long so I tried to summarise...
Sister Lana, that is what is so disturbing about the practice. If the people used their fingers, I'm sure they would have been more sincere instead of talking on the phone and "clicking away". Some people walk around doing dhikr, and start talking away yet they are still counting; I don't get it? For others, it is their lazy way of showing that they do `ibaadah, yet these same people don't pray the obligatory salaah?! Obviously not everyone who makes use of them is like this, but the majority of those who I've seen certainly are. The minority, those who are sincerely doing dhikr, you will find that a number of them prefer the sunnah, which is to use the fingers...
I'm glad there's people like you on these forums who can discuss and agree, instead of uselessly battling points of ikhtilaaf. As for calling it a bid`ah, then all I was doing was summarising the footnotes of the source into brackets within the hadeeth of `Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood, may Allaah be pleased with him. The footnotes seemed relevent as they clearly linked the sayings of Ibn Mas`ood to authentic narrations of the Prophet sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam. However, the post was already long so I tried to summarise...
Sister Lana, that is what is so disturbing about the practice. If the people used their fingers, I'm sure they would have been more sincere instead of talking on the phone and "clicking away". Some people walk around doing dhikr, and start talking away yet they are still counting; I don't get it? For others, it is their lazy way of showing that they do `ibaadah, yet these same people don't pray the obligatory salaah?! Obviously not everyone who makes use of them is like this, but the majority of those who I've seen certainly are. The minority, those who are sincerely doing dhikr, you will find that a number of them prefer the sunnah, which is to use the fingers...
