THE HOLY SPIRIT

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum

Coming from a Pentecostal Heritage, I have always sought to understand the concept of The Holy Spirit. I would greatly appreciate clarification and correction to this post in this thread.
My research indicates that prior to the turn of the twentieth century (I do apologize for not knowing what that would be by the lunar calendar which is probably a more correct method of observing the flow of time.) the study of The Holy Spirit was practically none existent in Modern Theology. However, with the commencement of The Pentecostal Movement and it's Charismatic element, Pneumatology became a primary sub-division of Theology.

This post will hopefully present the subject in a way that will make it possible for my Islamic brothers and sisters to know my understanding of The Holy Spirit and if I have any misunderstandings to help me see them.

I hope to present what the current English Version of The Bible (Old and New Testaments) has to say about this area of Theology and also present some of the extraneous Historical Data available.

I am not able to state with much verifiable certainty what the early Christian Church has to say about The Holy Spirit. I do contend that the early followers of Yeshua the Messiah did not consider The Holy Spirit to be a second or third person of the trinity. In fact, it is a known historical fact that the concept of a trinity was a much later conceptualization of God. The original followers of all the prophets held firmly to the literal meaning of Deuteronomy 6:4 which states Deu 6:4 שׁמע ישׂראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃*! and is translated ‬Deu 6:4 HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

All the Prophets of Allah (PBUT) from Adam (PBUH) to Moses (PBUH) and Yeshua The Messiah (PBUH) to Muhammad (Salla Allahu "alayh Wa Sallem) taught Monotheism in the strictest sense and meaning of the word in any language.

Al-Baqara
And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. (89)

(MY APOLOGIES FOR USING A TRANSLATION HERE; UNFORTUNATELY, THE WORD PROCESSOR THAT I AM CURRENTLY USING SHUTS OFF WHEN EVER I ATTEMPT TO PASTE ARABIC.)

"La ilaha il Allah"

Al-Baqara
And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him. (116)

Al-Baqara
Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. (255)

Al-E-Imran
He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. (3)

Al-E-Imran
Lo! This verily is the true narrative. There is no God save Allah, and lo! Allah he verily, is the Mighty, the Wise. (62) And if they turn away, then lo! Allah is Aware of (who are) the corrupters. (63) Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). (64)

Al-Maeda
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I had ever said it, then Thou wouldst have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (116)

An-Nahl
Allah hath said: Choose not two Gods. There is only One God. So of Me, Me only, be in awe. (51)

Al-Mumenoon
Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with Him; else would each God have assuredly championed that which he created, and some of them would assuredly have overcome others. Glorified be Allah above all that they allege. (91)

Al-Maeda
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. (73)

So, we know that any concept that makes Allah a partner, a biological father, or a third of God is false because the Hebrew Scriptures, "Greek Scriptures" (As far as they have been preserved correctly) and Al Qur'an all state "La ilaha il Allah"

(I am posting this much because it is frustrating to have your writing disappear because your computer shuts off before finishing. I, Insha Allah, will get to the point of this thread in the immediate future. Alhamdulliah.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,
I have thoroughly studied the Theology of The United Pentecostal Church which in my opinion is Modalism and Jehovah Witnesses which, again, in my opinion is Arianism. The first states that there is no difference between Father, son, and holy ghost, and the second states that "The Father" is God and the son is man and that the holy ghost is the "power" or "force" you by God and His Messiah to interact with humans. Which isn't strict Arainism as they believed that the holy ghost was created by Yeshua. In my opinion, neither of these two derivations are completely correct in understanding Allah except in their rejection of the Trinitarian Conception of God. That is the problem with Actual Conceptions is that they are based in the mind of Mankind and not Reality.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

As a previously certified minister of Apostolic Church of God 7th Day, Langley B.C. Canada by The Internation overseer and "President" of the church. I think I can also speak as to what there CONCEPTION of God, "Jesus", and The Holy Spirit is with some authority. (Obviously, as a self-professed Muslim, I no longer am a minister of that church or a representative of it. Although, I do still carry the ministerial certification card in the advent that my claim to previously being a minister is disputed and it does bear the signature of Elder Saunders.)

Apostolic Church of God 7th Day, when I pastored a church and did evangelism at other denominations' churches upon request, taught that "Jesus" ((I mean no disrespect by the quotations marks or omission of the normally recited PBUH phrase. I simply am not comfortable using the Greek translation of the Aramaic name Yeshua (and, I know that even Yeshua is a disputed name.)) had a pre-eathly-existence and they base this assertion on
John 1:1-3, John 1:14, I John 1:1-3 John 8:58, Ex. 3:14, Dan. 3:23, Acts 7: 37, 38 and Phil 2:6-8. I didn't bother posting them since I believe that this can be explained by translational error and other Apologetic Arguments to the contrary and it is not relevant to this thread other than to introduce you to how far I have come in learning the Truth found in Al Quran.

My previous "church" (a Christian Organization and not a building or group of believers in a particular set of Doctrines) future taught that it was actually "Christ" who created the universe and they use the following currently accepted Bible verse as "proof" of this: Heb 1:1-3; Col 1:16; Eph 3:9; ICor. 8:6; John 1:3; and they further assert that "Jesus" of the New Testment was "Jehovah" of the Old Testament and they use the following scriptures (This is also an assertion of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints" also known as "The Mormon Church" by non-Mormons which we know can not be a "true church" because it had and continues to have "Prophets" and
it relies heavily on The Book of Mormon which not only contradicts the modern translation of the Bible but actually contradicts itself.)
Psalms 102:22-28----------Hebrews 1:8-12
Hab 2:2,3.........................Hebrews 10:37
Hag 2:6--------------------Hebrews 12:26
Psalms 45:6,7....................Hebrews 1:8,9

(It is generally believed that Hebrews was written by Paul also known as Saul; however, I don't accept this assertion and believe that it is best to simply state that as far as I know no living person on earth knows the authorship of The Biblical Book called Hebrews.

Apostolic Chuch of God 7th Day also teaches that "Jesus" was an "Incarnation of "The Word" which existed with God and was a partner with "God" (For my views on this read Al Quran:

Al-Maeda
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I had ever said it, then Thou wouldst have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (116) I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. (117)

An-Nahl
And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! - (43) With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect. (44) Are they who plan ill-deeds then secure that Allah will not cause the earth to swallow them, or that the doom will not come on them whence they know not? (45) Or that He will not seize them in their going to and fro so that there be no escape for them? (46) Or that He will not seize them with a gradual wasting? Lo! thy Lord is indeed Full of Pity, Merciful. (47) Have they not observed all things that Allah hath created, how their shadows incline to the right and to the left, making prostration unto Allah, and they are lowly? (48) And unto Allah maketh prostration whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth of living creatures, and the angels (also) and they are not proud. (49) They fear their Lord above them, and do what they are bidden. (50) Allah hath said: Choose not two Gods. There is only One God. So of Me, Me only, be in awe. (51)

Al-Mumenoon
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Successful indeed are the believers (1) Who are humble in their prayers, (2) And who shun vain conversation, (3) And who are payers of the poor-due; (4) And who guard their modesty - (5) Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, (6) But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors - (7) And who are keepers of their pledge and their covenant, (8) And who pay heed to their prayers. (9) These are the heirs (10) Who will inherit paradise. There they will abide. (11) Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; (12) Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; (13) Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators! (14)

(I need again to apologize for not knowing or being able to paste Al Qur'an as I am sure that the English Translation of Al Qur'an is not as clear and is prone to semantic manipulation where the actual Al Arabia Al Qur'an is clear and not open to the same twisting and wrestling to which any translation is subject.)

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

And, as an example of how The Bible could be completely misunderstood when read in its' present accepted form:

In 2 Corinthians 5:19 where it says in The King James Version "God was in Christ..." could mean literally as "A Spirit" or figuratively as in the fact that everything that happens happens by and in accordance with Allah's Will and therefore whatever anyone does under the direction of Allah could be interpreted in the same way as when a King sends a messenger and then later says "I told you" when in fact the messenger told the person or people and the King never actually "told" he/she/ them anything in person.

This also shows my dilemma in searching for Islam (The Original Teachings of The Only True God, Allah) in the translations of "The Scriptures" of the Hebrews, Greeks, and all of the other books of several religions of man (as whatever disagrees with Al Qur' an and The Prophet of Allah, Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) is of man and not The Revealed Truth of Allah).

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

I have to make a further digression here to say that I was taught when someone does a kindness for you as a service or aid to you in his or her attempt to be submissive and obedient to Allah that you should not publicly announce who did the kindness or service. This is in keeping with the accept Bible verse which states:

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

And, I believe that Al Qur'an confirms this to be correct if I understand correctly:



Al-Baqara

(261) Those who spend their wealth for the cause of Allah and afterward make not reproach and injury to follow that which they have spent; their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them, neither shall they grieve. (262) A kind word with forgiveness is better than almsgiving followed by injury. Allah is Absolute, Clement. (263) O ye who believe! Render not vain your almsgiving by reproach and injury, like him who spendeth his wealth only to be seen of men and believeth not in Allah and the Last Day. His likeness is as the likeness of a rock whereon is dust of earth; a rainstorm smiteth it, leaving it smooth and bare. They have no control of aught of that which they have gained. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk. (264) And the likeness of those who spend their wealth in search of Allah's pleasure, and for the strengthening of their souls, is as the likeness of a garden on a height. The rainstorm smiteth it and it bringeth forth its fruit twofold. And if the rainstorm smite it not, then the shower. Allah is Seer of what ye do."

But, I would like to thank the person who has helped me on the Islamic Path with books and a translation of AL QURAN for already your gift is strengthening my understanding and belief in Allah and Islam.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Ayman1, Shukran, and as always I respect and appreciate your help in understanding Islam.

I hope it is clear that I am only seeking to conform my understanding of Islam and Allah with Truth and am not implying that any of the above stated "beliefs" that I may have held in the past concerning Yeshua the Messiah or The Holy Spirit are in fact clear. I am hoping to show what is taught in the various denominations of Christianity only for the purpose of showing what is True in that it Harmonizes with Al Qur'an and what is misinterpreted or "worse" spurious origin (forged).

You are an asset to us all and I again thank you for your help in understanding truth.

I do have a question for you directly. In quoting The Bible, as is in existence today in translations, it is accepted practice to put into parenthesis-es those words which are not found in the original language in order to clarify the meaning, but to also emphasize that they are not part of the original text. Is this also the case with quoting Al Qur'an's translations and should one read the translations of Al Qur'an both with and without the parenthetical words so as to better understand the meaning. ((Of course those who read Arabic "Fluently"(One definition of fluency is the ability to read aloud expressively and with understanding) have no need of additional words to clarify the meaning.))

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

The first Bible "Book" that I ever read was "The Book of Acts" asserted to have been written by Luke and I read it for the first time in Vietnam. I read the Bible whenever I had free time and wasn't in "The Bush" (Jungle or Field). Many new Christians are told to read "The Gospel according to John" which is the fourth book of The New Testament as is found in the Protestant Translation of The Bible which has a different number of books than The Roman Catholic Bible and The Coptic Bible. I was told by the Christians whom I knew to start reading The Bible with The Book of Acts.

The "Holy Ghost" as "it" is referred to in The King James Bible is mentioned frequently in Acts and the first set of verses of (The King James Version of) The Bible which I memorized were:

"Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

(Scripture at that time meant The Old Testament "Tanakh" and especially The Torah).

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

(And, I do apologize that in the online Bible which I am using to copy and paste the words which should be in () parenthesis-es are in a different "TYPE" and it isn't showing up as such in when copied and pasted; so to get a more accurate rendition please read a translation which has the parenthetical words.)

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Now, (and please forgive my tone of authority for it is not intended to indicate superiority, but rather how I have memorized this) it is important to understand that in Christianity not everyone who prophesizes (gives what is referred to as a minor prophesy) is a Prophet in the True sense of the word. And, this fact is further complicated by text attributed to Paul in the epistles, (letters) of Paul to the Corinthians as we have in the English Translation). So, you can see how difficult it is for anyone who only has the English Translation of The Bible as a guide to understand The True Way which is Islam as revealed toThe Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allahu "alyhi Wa Sallem) in Al Qur'an.

Also, at this point in the thread, with your permission, I would like to share in some detail how, prior to reverting to Islam, I accept what is commonly called Christianity, but in fact I was only taking my first steps toward Islam.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

If sharing this with you appears to be a lack of humility, I apologize and hope to explain that I am doing so just to show how even a wretch like me can be called to Islam.

As a boy, I was non-aggressive and kind, however, the more that I was exposed to other children outside my immediate neighborhood, the more I realized that it was necessary for me to learn to guard and protect myself. Also, the truth is, with no disrespect meant to my father, at times it was necessary to protect myself from my father's anger which was probably the result of my willfulness and selfishness. So, at the age of thirteen, I used money I had earned to begin taking Karate lessons from John Korab who it turned out was one of the most respected Karate Instructors in the United States.

I practiced everyday and developed relative good skill and knowledge, but still did not have the desire to inflict injury on anyone other than to stop them from harming me. Consequently, I still often stopped my techniques short and received injury because my attackers did not have the same regard for my well being that I had for others.

At the age of seventeen, I had developed friendships with a few discharged Marines and my cousin had returned from Vietnam with a chestful of metals and a missing leg. My friends were all decorated heroes and I wanted to be a warrior like them.

Finally, my father had had enough of my willful and independent behavior, and agreed to sign the permission slip for me to join the Marines.

However, I was sidetracked into joining the Army. (I am trying not to digress worse than I already am.)

I was a different person after my Basic Training. The Drill Sergeants had succeed in turning me into a person capable and willing to injure and kill anyone perceived to be an enemy. The problem was I perceived anyone not a friend as a potential enemy.

I excelled at my Advanced Training as a medic (which again I am omitting details to avoid a long digression). Suffice it to say that I became a medic because my recruiter convinced me it was the fastest way to get to Vietnam based on a need. (Even though I am a member of the genius organization MENSA, I often failed to use my intelligence in life decisions. )

At that time, the military required that a soldier be eighteen. Consequently, even though I volunteered for Vietnam in the hopes of be able to distinguish myself as my cousin and older friends had done, I was sent to Fort Knox, Ky where I served on the first helicopter Life Flight program in The Contiguous United States.

Sometime shortly after my eighteenth year, I received my orders for Vietnam. I finally arrived at Camp Eagle, outside of Phu Bai and Hue, Vietnam. I made few friends and was not well liked by many because of my pugnacious attitude.

I was quickly promoted to the rank of Buck Sergeant (which is the first Non Commissioned Officer's rank).

I will skip to the fact that after more than a few life course changing events, I agreed to attend a Chapel (military church) gathering of a few Christian Musicians. One asked me, if I would say an "opening prayer." I told him that although I was raised in a Christian home and attended a Christian Church regularly prior to my enlistment, I hadn't prayed since I was extremely young "with the exception of a few recent silent searching prayers" and hadn't believed in The Existence of God since about the age of thirteen. He told me to just talk to God as I would anyone else. (Of Course, Allah isn't like anyone else and it was disrespect to even say such a thing.) So, I managed to say "God," and I was overcome with guilt and it seemed like I was forced unto my knees even though no one was touching me. I began crying (something else I hadn't done in many many years) and begging "God" for forgiveness. Suddenly, I was "speaking in tongues". I had never heard, read, or seen this phenomena as my only exposure to Christianity was my Roman Catholic Dad and my Mainstream Protestant Mom. One of the two Christians (one of who was a Conscientious Objector who didn't carry a gun and the other who was a Hard Stripped Buck Sergeant demolition expert.) told me to continue to pray in tongues and that he would show me the Bible explanation later.)

Immediately, men and Vietnamese women began to notice and commend on the fact that I seemed like a totally different person and what an improvement Christianity was making in my life.

So, you can see why I am so interested in learning the Truth about The Holy Spirit. I personally think that what is called Speaking in Tongues today is the result of a neural-chemical experience in (redundantly) the brain and is not the same experience reported in The Book of Acts chapter two. I think that the religious experience that I had was so intense that it caused the release of brain chemicals that resulted in my unintelligible speech.

However, this does not mean that I reject the possibility that it is somehow related to for lack of a better word and "anointing" of a religious nature.

I do accept Al Qur'an as Truth and The Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) as Allah's Prophet (Salla Allahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem) "lâ ilâha illallâh, Muḥammadun rasûlullâh ". However, I can't help but try to make sense of previous religious experiences since it is also my belief that
"2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."


Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
Isa 28:23 Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
Isa 28:24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
Isa 28:25 When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?
Isa 28:26 For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.
Isa 28:27 For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.
Isa 28:28 Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.
Isa 28:29 This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.

and finally, and I do thank each of you for your indulgence and tolerance in my postings
Whenever I read this Psalm it is as if it is coming from my "very sould"

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.
Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
Psa 119:17 GIMEL. Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word.
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
Psa 119:20 My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto thy judgments at all times.
Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.
Psa 119:22 Remove from me reproach and contempt; for I have kept thy testimonies.
Psa 119:23 Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.
Psa 119:24 Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.
Psa 119:25 DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
Psa 119:26 I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.
Psa 119:28 My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word.
Psa 119:29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
Psa 119:30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.
Psa 119:31 I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O LORD, put me not to shame.
Psa 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.
Psa 119:33 HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
Psa 119:36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
Psa 119:38 Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.
Psa 119:39 Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good.
Psa 119:40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.
Psa 119:41 VAU. Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word.
Psa 119:42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.
Psa 119:43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.
Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psa 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psa 119:46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
Psa 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.
Psa 119:49 ZAIN. Remember the word unto thy servant, upon which thou hast caused me to hope.
Psa 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
Psa 119:51 The proud have had me greatly in derision: yet have I not declined from thy law.
Psa 119:52 I remembered thy judgments of old, O LORD; and have comforted myself.
Psa 119:53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
Psa 119:54 Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage.
Psa 119:55 I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law.
Psa 119:56 This I had, because I kept thy precepts.
Psa 119:57 CHETH. Thou art my portion, O LORD: I have said that I would keep thy words.
Psa 119:58 I intreated thy favour with my whole heart: be merciful unto me according to thy word.
Psa 119:59 I thought on my ways, and turned my feet unto thy testimonies.
Psa 119:60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments.
Psa 119:61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have not forgotten thy law.
Psa 119:62 At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:63 I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:64 The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:65 TETH. Thou hast dealt well with thy servant, O LORD, according unto thy word.
Psa 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.
Psa 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.
Psa 119:68 Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart.
Psa 119:70 Their heart is as fat as grease; but I delight in thy law.
Psa 119:71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.
Psa 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.
Psa 119:73 JOD. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.
Psa 119:74 They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word.
Psa 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.
Psa 119:76 Let, I pray thee, thy merciful kindness be for my comfort, according to thy word unto thy servant.
Psa 119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
Psa 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.
Psa 119:79 Let those that fear thee turn unto me, and those that have known thy testimonies.
Psa 119:80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.
Psa 119:81 CAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word.
Psa 119:82 Mine eyes fail for thy word, saying, When wilt thou comfort me?
Psa 119:83 For I am become like a bottle in the smoke; yet do I not forget thy statutes.
Psa 119:84 How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa 119:85 The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.
Psa 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.
Psa 119:87 They had almost consumed me upon earth; but I forsook not thy precepts.
Psa 119:88 Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.
Psa 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
Psa 119:91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.
Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
Psa 119:94 I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts.
Psa 119:95 The wicked have waited for me to destroy me: but I will consider thy testimonies.
Psa 119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psa 119:106 I have sworn, and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.
Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Psa 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.
Psa 119:110 The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.
Psa 119:111 Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart.
Psa 119:112 I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end.
Psa 119:113 SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.
Psa 119:114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.
Psa 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
Psa 119:116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Psa 119:117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually.
Psa 119:118 Thou hast trodden down all them that err from thy statutes: for their deceit is falsehood.
Psa 119:119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.
Psa 119:120 My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments.
Psa 119:121 AIN. I have done judgment and justice: leave me not to mine oppressors.
Psa 119:122 Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me.
Psa 119:123 Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, and for the word of thy righteousness.
Psa 119:124 Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:125 I am thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know thy testimonies.
Psa 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
Psa 119:127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Psa 119:129 PE. Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them.
Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Psa 119:131 I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments.
Psa 119:132 Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.
Psa 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.
Psa 119:134 Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:135 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:136 Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Psa 119:137 TZADDI. Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments.
Psa 119:138 Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.
Psa 119:139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.
Psa 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
Psa 119:141 I am small and despised: yet do not I forget thy precepts.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 119:143 Trouble and anguish have taken hold on me: yet thy commandments are my delights.
Psa 119:144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.
Psa 119:145 KOPH. I cried with my whole heart; hear me, O LORD: I will keep thy statutes.
Psa 119:146 I cried unto thee; save me, and I shall keep thy testimonies.
Psa 119:147 I prevented the dawning of the morning, and cried: I hoped in thy word.
Psa 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
Psa 119:149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment.
Psa 119:150 They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Psa 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Psa 119:153 RESH. Consider mine affliction, and deliver me: for I do not forget thy law.
Psa 119:154 Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word.
Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
Psa 119:156 Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me according to thy judgments.
Psa 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies.
Psa 119:158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.
Psa 119:159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness.
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Psa 119:161 SCHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word.
Psa 119:162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.
Psa 119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.
Psa 119:164 Seven times a day do I praise thee because of thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Psa 119:166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments.
Psa 119:167 My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly.
Psa 119:168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.
Psa 119:169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.
Psa 119:170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word.
Psa 119:171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Psa 119:173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Psa 119:175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
Psa 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

I guess in closing, what I want to know and am seeking to understand is (and I know that this translation is not a verbatim conversation because first it doesn't say anyone was with Yeshua and secondly why would the woman clarify what was meant by Messiah unless it was because of a dialect difference and she certainly wouldn't have used the Greek word Christ.) Is the following text in bold print correct?:

Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.