'The Retreat'

[Globalpeace]

Why Sufi'ism?

Asslamo Allaikum All,

Imagine someone going out on a Friday Night and having the greatest time of their life & then waking up with a thumping headache the next day!

Next week they remember the headache but do it all over again for the "Rush"

And again

And again

Till the rush is enough anymore so they have to spice up their Friday Night.

Haal & Sufism is just like that! You WANT the feeling over & over again!...

Chanting in Budhism and Hindusim is like that! You WANT the feeling over & over again!...

Meditation is like that! You want to get into the 'theta state'

I have spoken to many Sufees & they always take about 'experiences'...Islam is NOT about 'experiences'; it's about listen and obey Allah & His Messenger!

But I can see why these guys (Muslims & Non-Muslim) don't let go; just like people won't let go their Friday Nights.

 

[shaz_1999]

I rely cud not bring myself 2watch dis my family did watch it while I was on da phone 2my mate and when I came back it was like nearly over I was saying I cannot belive ur watching dis dey were like why den I explaind and dey agreed.

Its up 2 if u want2 watch it but I rely couldnt

 

[Amirah84]

:salam2:

It was absolutely awful. I mean when the leader of that place said that " I don't give a damn" to the sister's question. I was on my feet saying "did u hear what he said????"

I also didn't feel comfortable watching the lady in a "euphoria" very odd state. Just watching it, even if you don't know much about Islam or as a non-muslim, i think something just makes you feel very uncomfortable. It's just not right. As muslims we know this is far deviated from the teachings of Islam.

Another thing was the way the "imaam" justified his actions. He said something along the lines of " I chant Allah's name so and so many hours a day, worshipping Him. Now am I doing something bad?"

Whatever Allah subhana wa ta'ala did not prescribe for us and whatever the prophet did not teach us in form of worship is not from Islam. Allah perfected our religion for us and completed His favour upon us. By adding something to Islam and justifing it as such it;s as if one is saying that they know something better.

May Allah protect us from this, ameen.

I'm not watching it again,
take care

 

[revert_north]

:salam2:

It was absolutely awful. I mean when the leader of that place said that " I don't give a damn" to the sister's question. I was on my feet saying "did u hear what he said????"

I also didn't feel comfortable watching the lady in a "euphoria" very odd state. Just watching it, even if you don't know much about Islam or as a non-muslim, i think something just makes you feel very uncomfortable. It's just not right. As muslims we know this is far deviated from the teachings of Islam.

Another thing was the way the "imaam" justified his actions. He said something along the lines of " I chant Allah's name so and so many hours a day, worshipping Him. Now am I doing something bad?"

Whatever Allah subhana wa ta'ala did not prescribe for us and whatever the prophet did not teach us in form of worship is not from Islam. Allah perfected our religion for us and completed His favour upon us. By adding something to Islam and justifing it as such it;s as if one is saying that they know something better.

May Allah protect us from this, ameen.

I'm not watching it again,
take care

:salam2:

I was quite alarmed that the Non-Muslim woman had taken the Sufi practices at face value, and actually thought that these were common occurrences in all mosques, and in all Islam...but how was she to blame? Most people without the benefit of a deeper understanding of the deen would have probably assumed the same! And that's dangerous. Without the Sunni Muslim sisters on hand to tell her the REAL deal, how would she have known??

The retreat is Sufi, fair enough, but the non-Muslims should have been informed that many of the practices there are neither agreed upon nor imitated by the vast majority of (sunni) Muslims. Otherwise, it's terrible, confusing misinformation to non-Muslims, as well as to Muslims who aren't very knowledgeable about the deen.

 

[dido70]

brothers and sisters
that was a stupid programm because it's enought to watch woman and men setting in The Mosque and doing what is the so-called "zekr" and that woman who was howling like a wolf "Howa hoo howa ho howa ho" and the representer of the programm said it means "He is he" and when one of them argued with Abduallah that prophet Muhammed didn't do that he said"i don't care"
they are all Soofy sect and in islam nothing called retreat because islam incourage work and helping people in need rather than staying all the time in the Mosque .
prophet Muhamme "sala allah 3aleyhe wa salam" said : it is better for a muslim to go with a brother to help him rather than staying in my Mosque praying for one month

 

[Peace2u]

Salam,

This isn’t Morocco but in Spain Andalusia. I've heard about this where people tend to chant and go into some weird state as if after heavy chanting they're hypnotized or something like that, I guess this is part of Sufism.

I spoke to someone who I know attends these gatherings and asked them questions about the chanting. They claim there is good innovation and bad innovation; obviously they see what they're doing as a good innovation because they are glorifying Allah and this brings them closer to God.

For example you have some Muslims who claim it is haram to use prayer beads and because the Prophet (PBUH) used his fingers they see it as going against the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore fingers alone should be used.

Another example is the manner in which some Muslims pray their salah, some with their hands above their navel and others might place them on the chest and others may just leave their hands to their sides etc. The bottom line is the Prophet (PBUH) would sometimes pray differently and when people used to watch and observe him, you would find others praying slightly different from each other hence why we see people pray differently when ever we go to the Mosque. At the end of the day all their prayers Inshallah will still be accepted regardless of where they’re placing their hands when they pray.

Anyway going back to the programme on the BBC, personally I think they should have been more selective on the type of people they choose to attend. Most Muslims including myself would not have felt comfortable with some of the things that took place there. The main thin I have a problem with is when they go into a state of fixation. I do not see this as a normal thing at all and I’m sure the Prophet would have disapproved of it.

I remember reading a hadith about how a group of people were praising and glorifying Allah out loudly and a group of Angels were sent down to protect them shrouding them with their wings. Some people say it is good to do silent Dikr (remembrance of Allah) rather than saying his name out loudly as Allah is closer to us then we think. But then again I’m sure it’s not a sin praising Allah’s name out loudly but with limits of course.

I want to know from anyone, is there anywhere in the Quran or Hadith that says we cannot do gatherings and praise Allah’s name out loudly?

I think Islam is simple and for me personally I would prefer to do silent Dikr as most of the Prophets used to go up in the caves of the mountains to meditate and be closer to Allah.

Also I don’t think we have the right to say other people are not Muslim despite what they are doing on this programme as Allah will judge us on an individual level.

Just thought I would share my opinions, I hope others will to Inshallah.

Salam alai kum

 

[Muslim-]

Pom on the show converted to Islam and said shahadah on the retreat show :ma:

 

[Jawad]

I believe that this is an attempt to cause farther abruption in the muslim community in the UK or just deliberate act to show false Islam. What they are showing is Sufism, maybe in an attempt to make Islam look like a joke?. All the people who revert to Islam find piece in submiting to the will of Allah, where as in this show they are practicing false traditions which have no place in Islam as far as my knowledge is goes. Please do correct me if im wrong.

 

[Jawad]

Peace* Sorry for them miss spelling.

 

[Mabsoot]

Salam,

I spoke to someone who I know attends these gatherings and asked them questions about the chanting. They claim there is good innovation and bad innovation; obviously they see what they're doing as a good innovation because they are glorifying Allah and this brings them closer to God.

For example you have some Muslims who claim it is haram to use prayer beads and because the Prophet (PBUH) used his fingers they see it as going against the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore fingers alone should be used.

Wa alaykum salam,

obviously the Shayateen make various excuses for their evil actions. And lets not water things down, anyone who does Bidah (innovation) is doing evil.

The people in charge of the Retreat, i.e. that ignorant man who was teaching false beliefs to both the Muslims and the viewers, said that those who oppose Sufism are conformists who wish to follow a "rigid" form of Islam. He claimed that Sufis are the true followers of Islam. However, all that crazy dancing and wallowing saying Hoo, is not from Islam. Rather, when Sister Khadija (on the show) said that they were not doing what the Prophet taught or did, he (the man in charge of the retreat) said: "I dont care".

The Prophet said:

“Those of you who survive after me will see great difference of opinion. So hold fast to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly-guided Khalîfahs after me. Cling to it tightly and beware of newly-invented matters for every newly-invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray.” Sahîh: Related by Ahmad (4/126), Abû Dâwûd (no.4607) and Ibn Mâjah (no.43), from al-’Irbâd ibn Sâriyah radiallâhu ’anhu. It was authenticated by al-Hâfidh lbn Hajar in Takhrîj Ahâdîth Mukhtasar Ibnul-Hâjib (1/137).

He also said:

“The stars are the custodians for the sky, so when the stars pass away, that which has been decreed for the sky will come upon it. I am the custodian for my Companions, so when I pass away, there will come upon my Companions that which is decreed for them. And my Companions are the custodians for my Ummah, so when my Companions pass away, that which has been decreed upon my Ummah will come upon it.” Related by Muslim (16/82) and Ahmad (4/398), from Abû Mûsâ al-Ash’arî radiallâhu ’anhu.

The blessed companion of the Prophet , ’Abdullâh ibn ’Umar - radiallâhu ’anhu - said:

“Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people think it is good.” Related by al-Lâlikâ‘î (no.l26), Ibn Battah (no.205), al-Bayhaqî in al-Madkhal ilas-Sunan (no.191) and Ibn Nur in as-Sunnah (no.70). This narration refutes the concept of bid’ah hasanah (good innovation) with regards to beliefs and worship.

Ibn Mas’ûd - radiallâhu ’anhu - said:
The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam drew a line for us and said: “This is Allâh’s Straight Path.” Then he drew lines to its right and its left and said: “These are other paths. Upon everyone of them there is a devil calling towards it.” Then he recited: “Indeed this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths, they will separate you from His Path.” [ Sahîh: Related by Ahmad (l/435), an-Nasâ’î (7/49) and ad-Dârimî (1/67-68). Shaykh al-Albânî authenticated it in his checking to Kitâbus-Sunnah of Ibn Abî ’Âsim (nos.16-17).]


About Allâh’s saying: “And do not follow other paths.” ad-Dârimî relates in his Sunan (l/68) and al-Bayhaqî relates in al-Madkbal ilas-Sunan (no.200) that Mujâhid (d.104H) said, explaining this âyah: “Innovations and doubts.”


Abûl-’Âliyah (d.90H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“Learn Islâm. Then when you have learnt Islâm, do not turn away from it to the right nor the left. But be upon the Straight Path and be upon the Sunnah of your Prophet and that which his Companions were upon ... And beware of these innovations because they cause enmity and hatred amongst you, but stick to the original state of affairs which was there before they divided.”

- They are not just dancing and singing... They say things like Allah is part of them, that he is in their heart, that they and Allah are one.. or other nonsense on varying levels. - This is their idea of wahdatul wujood that people like Ibn ARabi came up with. Infact, Ibn Arabi stated he was God himself.. due to these beliefs.

Those Sufi mystic people in the Retreat taught their students NOTHING. Yes, absolutely nothing about Islam. They had some strange ideas about what Tawheed was. THey did not explain anything about Shirk or bidah, rather they went against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah and encouraged people to do both Shirk and Bidah.

Islam is worshipping Allah alone without associating partners with Allah. - What did these people do? but leave Spain and go visit the graves and shrines in Morocco.

Sit outside in the Sun!! waiting for a jinn to possess them.

Rather those people should have been studying the following:

The Most important thing for a Muslim is to have correct belief in Allah. To know Allah. That Allah is the Sole Lord, Creator and Sustainer of the Universe, that Allah is the only One true God deserving of our Worship without any partners, and to believe and know Allah's names and attributes as they are described in the Quran and Hadith.

Spirituality is a part of Islam and it comes through practising and knowing Islam properly. Not by doing Shirk (associating partners with Allah), Kufr (saying things about Allah or Islam that are gravely incorrect and can lead someone outside of Islam i.e. that Allah and man are one OR like the Imam of the Retreat said, that he does not care about what the Prophet (SAW) did) and Bidah (innovating in Islam)

Fundamental Beliefs in Islam Tawheed and Aqeedah -

Introductory Articles About Islam

The Prophet said "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray.” [44] And he sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam also said: “Whosoever innovates, or accommodates an innovator, then upon him is the curse of Allâh, His Angel and the whole of mankind.” [ Related by al-Bukhârî (12/41) and Muslim (9/140) and the hadîth is general, as has been duly explained by al-Hâfidh Ibn Hajar in Fathul-Bârî (13/281]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Amr ibn Yahya narrated his father told him, "We used to sit at Abdullah Ibn Masood’s house before Fajr prayer. If he exited we would follow him to the musjid. Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari then came to us and asked us, ‘Did Abu Abur-Rahman (Abdullah Ibn Masood) come out yet?’ We said, ‘No’, so he sat with us till he emerged. We all stood up when he exited. He (Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari) said, ‘O Abu Adur-Rahman, I just saw something which I did not recognize, and I did not see, all thanks to Allah, but good.’ He (Ibn Masood) said, ‘What is it?’ He (Abu Musa) said, ‘If you live you will see it. I saw in the musjid people sitting in circles waiting for the prayer. In each circle there is a leader, and they have stones in their hands. He (the leader) would say, ‘Say Takbir (Allahu Akbar) 100 times’, so they say Takbir 100 times. He (the leader) would then say, ‘Say Tahil (La Ilaha Illa Allah) 100 times’, so they say Tahil 100 times. He (the leader) would then say, ‘Say Tasbih (Subhana Allah) 100 times’, so they say Tasbih 100 times. Ibn Masood said, ‘Did you not order them to count their evil deeds, and guarantee them that none of their good deeds will be lost?’ Then he and us left till we reached one of the circles. Then he (Ibn Masood) stood next to the circle and said, ‘What are you doing?’ They said, ‘O Abu Abdur-Rahamn, (these are) stones that we count our Takbir, Tahil, tasbih, and Tah’mid (Alhumdu’lillah).’ Ibn Masood said, ‘Count your evil deeds, for I guarantee that none of your good deeds will be lost. What is the matter with you, O nation of Muhammad? How soon you come to your destruction! The companions (of Muhammad) are still many, these are his clothes still not worn out and his cookware did not break yet. By whom my soul is in His Hands, you are either following a religion better than Muhammad’s or followers of a way of evil.’ They said, ‘By Allah, O Abu Abdur-Rahman, we sought only what is good.’ Ibn Masood said, ‘Many people seek good, but they do not reach it. The Messenger told us some people who read the Qur’an will not have the Qur’an leave their throats (to their hearts). By Allah I do not know if most of you are from them.’ Then he left them. Amr Ibn Salamah said, ‘We saw most of those people fighting against us, in the battle of Nahrawan with the Khawarij.’" (Tirmidhi)[/FONT]

Imâm al-Barbahârî (d.329H) - rahimahullâh - said:
"Beware of small innovations, because they grow until they become large. This was the case with every innovation introduced into this Ummah. It began as something small, bearing resemblance to the truth, which is why those who entered into it were mislead and then were unable to leave it. So it grew and became the religion which they followed, and thus deviated from the Straight Path and left Islâm. And may Allâh have mercy upon you! Examine carefully the speech of everyone you hear from in you time particularly. So do not act in haste and do not enter into anything from it until you ask and see: Did any of the Companions of the Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam speak about it, or any of the Scholars? So if you find a narration from them about it, cling to it, do not go beyond it for anything and do not give precedence to anything over it and thus fall into the Fire.”
[Kitâb Sharhus-Sunnah (nos.7-8) of al-Barbahârî.]

Indeed Sufyân ath-Thawrî - rahimahullâh - said:
“Innovations are more beloved to Iblîs than sin. Since a sin may be repented from, but innovation is not repented from.”

Imâm ash-Shâfi’î (d.204H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“That a person meets Allâh with every sin except Shirk is better than meeting Him upon any one of the innovated beliefs.”

Al-‘Awwaam bin Hawshab said about his son ‘Eesaa: “By Allaah, if I saw ‘Eesaa gathering with the people of musical instruments, alcohol and falsehood, that would be more beloved to me than if I were to see him sitting with the people of argumentation – the innovators.”

It was once said to Maalik bin Mughawal: “We saw your son playing with the birds.” So he responded: “How wonderful that it preoccupies him from accompanying an innovator.”

Al-Hasan (d.110H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“Do not sit with the people of innovation and desires, nor argue with them, nor listen to them.”

Abû Qilâbah (d.140H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“Do not sit with the people of innovation, because I do not feel secure that they will not drown you in their misguidance and make part of what you used to know, unclear to you.”

Ibn Awn (d.150H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“Whosoever sits with an innovator is worse than them.”

Sufyân ath-Thawrî (d.164H) - rahimahullâh - said:
“Whosoever listens to an Innovator has left the protection of Allâh and is entrusted to the innovation.”