Serious They follow nothing but conjecture:

a_stranger

Junior Member
15) 115 - The word of thy lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: none can change his words: for he is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

(116) 116 - Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of God. they follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie.

Translation of the meaning of Quran Surat Al Anaam.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
In Quran we find the truth perfect , clear and fresh guiding hearts to their Lord directly sincerely ,no miscosuption no confusion clearifing the mess of centuries .
 

Cariad

Junior Member
We have no confusion. The message is the same as it ever was because as it says very correct.. None can change Gods word., Yeshua is Gods word.

in the absence of proof that Yeshuas words were changed then it stands today as then. So we are where we are.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Peace dear friend
The confusion that was settled by Islam is about the nature of Yeshua : Jesus :Issa may peace and blessing be upon him : he is the word of God , a servant of God , no more than a creature ( but with very high status near to God by perfect faith and good deeds ) just like all the other prophets may peace and blessing be upon him .

With regards
 

Cariad

Junior Member
But my dear friend, that is not what Yeshua said. Yes, He was Word.. But THE word not A word. And yes He was servant.. But not just servant of God but from God. As role of Messiah is twofold firstly the suffering servant sent to make mankind right with God. And secondly to return to issue in Gods Kingdom on Earth. At that time there will be no longer disbelief and everyone including muslims will know Yeshua. Yeshua will know His sheep, but I believe at this time there will be chance for those in denial to be welcomed into the fold. That's is also why I can see no need of a prophet required after Yeshua. In case of your prophet I believe it to be for people of Arabia, the pagans. To bring them to God as they did not seem to understand the previous message, so possibly one of their own could give message to their understanding. But for me sorry, but the message is confusing I know muslims say it is clear, but I don't find it so. Apart from worship God as one God, that bit is clear and the same as the Bible. But how this God is portrayed in Qur'an is so very different to YHWH and I struggle to know how to have relationship with this God. I can't find the love I know is there where God is. Like I have and feel that love now. I know you in your way knows and feels this love as a muslim and I am happy for that. Just I don't see it. And sin, that's very different concept. I find islam concept of sin and effects and solutions dangerously simple. In a way it is kind of diminished, and becomes something God can just ignore, or forgive at a whim all sins but then some sins like shirk never. It can only be one or another ya?


John 10 22:39

I and the Father Are One

22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Dear friend to worship God in Islam means to love God the most love with most humility and to follow his way as told in Quran .
Who is God :Allah ?

59_22.png

Sahih International
He is Allah:God , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.59:23
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59_23.png

Sahih International
He is Allah :God , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.59:24
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59_24.png

Sahih International
He is Allah:God , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Translation of the meaning of Quran
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Dear friend to worship God in Islam means to love God the most love with most humility and to follow his way as told in Quran .
Who is God :Allah ?

59_22.png

Sahih International
He is Allah:God , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.59:23
to top
59_23.png

Sahih International
He is Allah :God , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.59:24
to top
59_24.png

Sahih International
He is Allah:God , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Translation of the meaning of Quran
How does God show His love for you?
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Dear friend God:Allah created me out of nothing , he nourished me when I was a fetus in the womb of my mother, he gave me eyes, ears, hands legs,.........etc mind ( uncountable gifts ) , he cause me to grow , learn , walk , feel .....he put unlimited love and mercy in hearts of my mother and father for me ......God put the earth for me to walk on , the sky as roof , water to drink , air to breath ............I can't count what Allah gave me in this life and promised me for better in a coming life if have sincere faith in him and good deeds, if I call him with sincerity , turn to him with a heart.

God told us about his love which we feel and enjoy in Quran :

And He is the Forgiving, the Affectionate(The loving ). 85:14

If some one gives you a valuable gift every month does' not that mean that he loves you?? What about the one who is giving us all that make us live every moment??Most of the verses of Quran is a reminder of what God gave humans , Quran builds a firm connection between the creator and creatures through feeling what The creator created and gave and the creatures are enjoying , it fulls hearts with love and gratitude towards the creator and make hearts and bodies bow in love and humility .
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Interesting answer, of course I agree that God loves all creation, which leads me to ask a question, I asked before but maybe you did not see.. As a muslim do you believe I as a christian will not go to paradise, because I am not a muslim?

If God as you believe shows His love for you because He created you from nothing then the Bible is correct to say God loves sinners as well as the righteous and His love knows no bounds. As God created us all so regardless of any religion we are beloved of Him.

I think it goes deeper than this, because God is actually love, He is the perfect love and it's from this love we are created. We are created not for the sole purpose of worshipping God but because we reflect Gods love. It does not matter to God weather we worship Him or not, because His love is unconditional. Yeshua said God sends rain upon the righteous and the unrighteous meaning each of us is valued the same in His eyes. Worship, as you correctly say is borne from love and gratitude for all we have and the blessings we have upon us.

I guess also this is why seeing God has a plurality makes logical sense over a Unitary being. Love cannot exist in isolation, otherwise it becomes inward and narcissistic. Also apparently three is the perfect number needed for love to grow. :)

So for this life we have yes, we love God for all we are. But for the eternal life which for christian is more important, maybe also for you too as muslim. :) God demonstrated His love for us through Yeshua as lamb of God. Which was the greatest act of agape love shown to mankind. Of course I know you don't accept that. :) just I hope you see how also for a christians as for a muslim Gods love is a very real thing... Because we know and feel this love our worship comes from the heart and like yours is sincere. One thing I know for truth if there was more love in the world without seeing barriers of race or religion it would be a better place. People do not want to hurt or kill a person they feel love for.

Peace and love to you.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Dear Friend you ask about going to paradise , I am in trouble finding a place there trying with a lazy body and a hard heart.......it is for the pure sincere , humble servants who am I to tell who is going there ? may Allah have mercy on our souls , forgive our sins , gather us in Janna ( close to prophet Issa and Mohammd peace and blessing be upon them:

I shall tell you about Allah most Glorified more dear Cariad : his love , his unlimited mercy his perfect wisdom:

Narrated by Al-Bukhari in a Hadith Qudsi that the Prophet, may Allah have peace and blessings upon him, mentioned that Allah says in a Hadith


((Myself, Mankind and Jinn are in a great serious state. I create them, then they worship other gods that they make for themselves; I bless them with my bounties, then they thank someone else for what I sent them; My Mercy descends to them while their evil deeds ascend to Me; I endear them with my gifts even though I have no need for any of them while they alienate themselves from Me with their sins even though they are desperate for my help. Whoever returns to Me, I accept him no matter how far he is; and whoever turns away from Me, I approach him and call on him. Whoever leaves a sin for my sake, I reward him with many gifts and whoever seeks to please Me, I seek to please him. Whoever acknowledges My Will and Power in whatever he does, I make the iron bend for his sake. My dear people are those who are with Me.))
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Hadiths not the same as Qur'an ya? I mean not Gods words. But what you say that your prophet said is same as Bible says.. That God loves all and never despairs of a sinner. So where does that leave religion? Who allows those to say to non Muslims .. That there is no paradise for you only if you are Muslim. I believe that Yeshua was truth when he said He is the way, but that way is for all.. It's Gods way. He was sent for all peoples of the world. Even those who reject Him in life I believe they have a chance to accept him when they know truth after this world is gone for them, yet religion may say otherwise. But I have to think about if God is as God proclaims to be, loving merciful etc then that God I don't believe would discriminate among those who worship Him, in truth, love and sincerity.. And God knows who they are.. So we as people have no need to judge others in this regard. It is simple God owns us who come to Him. We reflect Gods love back to Him.. It's source.. We demonstrate that through worship.
We just see God differently.. But God is the same unchanged and eternal and how we choose to see God has no effect on God.

One thing I never understand is rewards.. For believing in God we have rewards. It's not so in this life if it were so many good people would not have such painful lives and many bad people would not be so blessed. In the afterlife I don't see what use rewards will be, and pale into insignificance if we are in paradise and be in the presence of Gods glory.. Which is all believers hope for. If all earthly pleasures pass away the idea of rewards does not work.

How do you see the rewards work..? Is it this life or the next?

As always peace and love to you
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Peace dear Cariad ,

l shall start discussing rewards:


(((One thing I never understand is rewards.. For believing in God we have rewards. It's not so in this life if it were so many good people would not have such painful lives and many bad people would not be so blessed. In the afterlife I don't see what use rewards will be, and pale into insignificance if we are in paradise and be in the presence of Gods glory.. Which is all believers hope for. If all earthly pleasures pass away the idea of rewards does not work.

How do you see the rewards work..? Is it this life or the next? )))

According to my beliefs the rewards for the believer who believes in God , his prophets ( all of them ) , his books, the other day , his angels ...and did good in this life... are both in this life and after life..Allah told us :

(97) 97 - Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to him will we give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and we will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.

Surat Al Nahel.

(19) 19 - And to all are (assigned) degrees according to the deeds which they (have done), and in order that (God) may recompense their deeds, and no injustice be done to them.


Surat Al Ahkaf

With peace and love
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
On the day of judgment there will be a scale for each human his good deeds, bad ones ......the best deed is sincere faith which drive humans to to do good.
If the good deeds exceed the bad ones then we go to paradise by the mercy of Allah . The more good we do the more sincere are our hearts the higher is our rank in Janna.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Peace dear Cariad ,

l shall start discussing rewards:


(((One thing I never understand is rewards.. For believing in God we have rewards. It's not so in this life if it were so many good people would not have such painful lives and many bad people would not be so blessed. In the afterlife I don't see what use rewards will be, and pale into insignificance if we are in paradise and be in the presence of Gods glory.. Which is all believers hope for. If all earthly pleasures pass away the idea of rewards does not work.

How do you see the rewards work..? Is it this life or the next? )))

According to my beliefs the rewards for the believer who believes in God , his prophets ( all of them ) , his books, the other day , his angels ...and did good in this life... are both in this life and after life..Allah told us :

(97) 97 - Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to him will we give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and we will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.

Surat Al Nahel.

(19) 19 - And to all are (assigned) degrees according to the deeds which they (have done), and in order that (God) may recompense their deeds, and no injustice be done to them.


Surat Al Ahkaf

With peace and love
Thank you. Why conditions like believing in prophets (Bible tells us not to believe all who come and say they are prophet. Many false prophets will come to lead people away from God, so we are told to test prophets and given a criteria by which to test.) book /scripture. (But you don't believe in all His scripture I think) Angels? Why Angels.. Last day, well believing in that or not does not prevent it coming. Even non believers will have the last day.

So do I understand that the reward of which you speak is life everlasting, not rewards like we expect in this world. Or is the reward different to new life?

We just must put all our faith in God and heed His word. Our reward is eternity knowing God in fullness and all His glory.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
On the day of judgment there will be a scale for each human his good deeds, bad ones ......the best deed is sincere faith which drive humans to to do good.
If the good deeds exceed the bad ones then we go to paradise by the mercy of Allah . The more good we do the more sincere are our hearts the higher is our rank in Janna.

It's a bit different for christian belief. Our good deeds do not count for anything in terms of expectations. Our good deeds come from our love for God and desire to please Him. Bad deeds sins? We cannot be in presence of God if we have sins, they first must be washed away. God does that for us with blood of the lamb (Yeshua) then we can be repentant before Holy God. I don't know about ranks high or lower is the same or anything in the Bible about that, as we are all made equal in Gods eyes. It also says that we are not all judged the same time, and it is different for those who have the Christ and those who do not.
What we can know for sure.. Whatever our individual beliefs is that the final judgement will be fair and just. :)
 
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