Sayf Udeen
New Member
Is being trapped in a burning skyscraper and knowing you are going to die a painful death torture? Water boarding is not torture.
Torture is pouring gasoline down the throat of your innocent victim as Quday Hussein did. Torture is kidnapping then beheading your hostage on video as happened to Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
Torture is the forced "dowry bride"system that deprives any woman of her basic human rights at the onset of puberty as I see every day while working in the Middle East.
Torture is the systemic elimination of religious viewpoints opposing yours through physical abuse and slow murder by starvation and imprisonment as is happening to opposing viewpoints in Iran.
We have an obligation to assure the human rights of those who cherish freedom and equality around the world. As a conservative, I point directly at Amnesty International's reports on Human rights abuse and you'll find a myriad of tortures from governments our liberals would not dare protest. When's the last time you saw a Liberal protesting the anniversary of the Murders at Tianaman (sic) Square? Or the forced military inductions of North Korea?
How about the ongoing millions of dollars being made in Afghanistan by the opium market and the rampant use of heroin in the States? Where are the protests against the torture of families slowly destroyed through illegal drug use? Or the protests against the Coyotes who enslave families in Mexico just to transit a family member to the States?
Get real!!!!! We must defend the principles of freedom and we must use methods that, while nauseating to the average person, intimidate those who are bent on imposing their will against our democracy. When you are ready to capitulate your love of freedom so you don't offend the oppressor you mark the end of democracy.
Comment by: J Larsen
Source: http://blogs.denverpost.com/westwatch/2009...arding-torture/
Okay.
So here I am hoping that J. Larsen who made this post finds this response, but I'm not entirely sure he will. It's almost as if he's willing to pick and choose what torture is based on who it's happening to.
Is being trapped in a burning skyscraper and knowing you are going to die a painful death torture? Water boarding is not torture.
Of course the former is torture, and I assume he is talking about September 11, as many seem to think justifies the actions being carried out against inmates in Gitmo (so many of whom have gone extended periods without a trail, and others have been subject to retrospective law making, let's ponder on why?)
The actions carried out on September 11, were certainly an act of torture, for everyone in NYC that day. For everyone who was concerned about friends or family, for everyone concerned about a traveller, for everyone who witnessed the attack, and for everyone who was injured/killed of course.
But that does not nullify that waterboarding is torture, especially when it was labelled torture and illegal when American troops were subject to it (as a conservatron this is something that surely should not be forgotten, especially given that it in a way was against the USA's national interest, and could certainly happen again)?
Terrorism, and Waterboarding, are definitely both forms of torture in their own rights.
Torture is pouring gasoline down the throat of your innocent victim as Quday Hussein did. Torture is kidnapping then beheading your hostage on video as happened to Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
Again, totally inexcusable. But, torture, detruction, abominations and desecration are all two way streets. And torture can not be a term subject to change based on who the victim/perpertrator is.
Was it not torture when US troops raped an Iraqi woman (undeniable now that PHOTOS of the attack have since been released, I got so sick of reading this "it's not proven beyond reasonable doubt BS)?
Is it not torture on part by the US by financially supporting the state of Israel through thick and thin for the past 61 years?
Is it not torture for all of the Iraqi and Afghan citizens that have been killed by US troops in the last eight years? In early 2008 the death toll for Iraqi citizens I believe reached 1,000,000 with an estimated 3,000,000 more living intenationally as refugees.
What about all of the families that have been broken up by these forces?
What about the abuses and humilations to prisoners of war that the US have been holding?
What about all of the people of Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan who everyday wake up not knowing if they'll still be around to see the evening?
When torture is brought up, it seems to me that things like this are all conviently swept under the mat and everyone is told that these are all 'necessary measures' to protect the freedoms we enjoy in the West and our rights. Last time I checked freedom has limits, and the main limit we see is that we can't sacrifice someone else's freedom to extend ours, not that any of these people have even in the least threatened our freedom.
All in all the comment continues with liberal bashing and pointing out clear cut human rights violations worldwide as though they some how make similar actions performed by the USA justified.
…Until we get to this:
Get real!!!!! We must defend the principles of freedom and we must use methods that, while nauseating to the average person, intimidate those who are bent on imposing their will against our democracy. When you are ready to capitulate your love of freedom so you don't offend the oppressor you mark the end of democracy.
Still without a single reference as to how democracy is under fire, or how acts by the USA are somehow morally superior than if another country does them? For clarity: I don't believe ANYTHING mentioned in the blog isn't torture.
This includes: Imprisoning people without trail in Gitmo for years on end, retrospective law making, breaching of war crimes in time of war, WATERBOARDING, and more.
Peace,
Sayf Udeen.
Source, my blog: http://alhamdulillah45.wordpress.com/
Torture is pouring gasoline down the throat of your innocent victim as Quday Hussein did. Torture is kidnapping then beheading your hostage on video as happened to Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
Torture is the forced "dowry bride"system that deprives any woman of her basic human rights at the onset of puberty as I see every day while working in the Middle East.
Torture is the systemic elimination of religious viewpoints opposing yours through physical abuse and slow murder by starvation and imprisonment as is happening to opposing viewpoints in Iran.
We have an obligation to assure the human rights of those who cherish freedom and equality around the world. As a conservative, I point directly at Amnesty International's reports on Human rights abuse and you'll find a myriad of tortures from governments our liberals would not dare protest. When's the last time you saw a Liberal protesting the anniversary of the Murders at Tianaman (sic) Square? Or the forced military inductions of North Korea?
How about the ongoing millions of dollars being made in Afghanistan by the opium market and the rampant use of heroin in the States? Where are the protests against the torture of families slowly destroyed through illegal drug use? Or the protests against the Coyotes who enslave families in Mexico just to transit a family member to the States?
Get real!!!!! We must defend the principles of freedom and we must use methods that, while nauseating to the average person, intimidate those who are bent on imposing their will against our democracy. When you are ready to capitulate your love of freedom so you don't offend the oppressor you mark the end of democracy.
Comment by: J Larsen
Source: http://blogs.denverpost.com/westwatch/2009...arding-torture/
Okay.
So here I am hoping that J. Larsen who made this post finds this response, but I'm not entirely sure he will. It's almost as if he's willing to pick and choose what torture is based on who it's happening to.
Is being trapped in a burning skyscraper and knowing you are going to die a painful death torture? Water boarding is not torture.
Of course the former is torture, and I assume he is talking about September 11, as many seem to think justifies the actions being carried out against inmates in Gitmo (so many of whom have gone extended periods without a trail, and others have been subject to retrospective law making, let's ponder on why?)
The actions carried out on September 11, were certainly an act of torture, for everyone in NYC that day. For everyone who was concerned about friends or family, for everyone concerned about a traveller, for everyone who witnessed the attack, and for everyone who was injured/killed of course.
But that does not nullify that waterboarding is torture, especially when it was labelled torture and illegal when American troops were subject to it (as a conservatron this is something that surely should not be forgotten, especially given that it in a way was against the USA's national interest, and could certainly happen again)?
Terrorism, and Waterboarding, are definitely both forms of torture in their own rights.
Torture is pouring gasoline down the throat of your innocent victim as Quday Hussein did. Torture is kidnapping then beheading your hostage on video as happened to Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
Again, totally inexcusable. But, torture, detruction, abominations and desecration are all two way streets. And torture can not be a term subject to change based on who the victim/perpertrator is.
Was it not torture when US troops raped an Iraqi woman (undeniable now that PHOTOS of the attack have since been released, I got so sick of reading this "it's not proven beyond reasonable doubt BS)?
Is it not torture on part by the US by financially supporting the state of Israel through thick and thin for the past 61 years?
Is it not torture for all of the Iraqi and Afghan citizens that have been killed by US troops in the last eight years? In early 2008 the death toll for Iraqi citizens I believe reached 1,000,000 with an estimated 3,000,000 more living intenationally as refugees.
What about all of the families that have been broken up by these forces?
What about the abuses and humilations to prisoners of war that the US have been holding?
What about all of the people of Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan who everyday wake up not knowing if they'll still be around to see the evening?
When torture is brought up, it seems to me that things like this are all conviently swept under the mat and everyone is told that these are all 'necessary measures' to protect the freedoms we enjoy in the West and our rights. Last time I checked freedom has limits, and the main limit we see is that we can't sacrifice someone else's freedom to extend ours, not that any of these people have even in the least threatened our freedom.
All in all the comment continues with liberal bashing and pointing out clear cut human rights violations worldwide as though they some how make similar actions performed by the USA justified.
…Until we get to this:
Get real!!!!! We must defend the principles of freedom and we must use methods that, while nauseating to the average person, intimidate those who are bent on imposing their will against our democracy. When you are ready to capitulate your love of freedom so you don't offend the oppressor you mark the end of democracy.
Still without a single reference as to how democracy is under fire, or how acts by the USA are somehow morally superior than if another country does them? For clarity: I don't believe ANYTHING mentioned in the blog isn't torture.
This includes: Imprisoning people without trail in Gitmo for years on end, retrospective law making, breaching of war crimes in time of war, WATERBOARDING, and more.
Peace,
Sayf Udeen.
Source, my blog: http://alhamdulillah45.wordpress.com/