- Status
Ahmed_2000
Servant of Allah
Fabs
did you read what i have posted , and ya we believe in bible and torah . but when you compare Quran and Bible many things will be same When Juesus speaks. but it only contradicts when Paul and others speak. like for example paul say its ok if you dont follow Ten Comandments. . and the ten comandments are the same as what we believe in go and look into it.
did you read what i have posted , and ya we believe in bible and torah . but when you compare Quran and Bible many things will be same When Juesus speaks. but it only contradicts when Paul and others speak. like for example paul say its ok if you dont follow Ten Comandments. . and the ten comandments are the same as what we believe in go and look into it.
virtualeye
Tamed Brother
We do NOT believe in bible but Injeel. Bible might have some part of word of God but has been currupted. Proof of curruption is not needed here, fabs must know them.
Ahmed_2000
Servant of Allah
thats what i mean in ingiil it doenst contadict , but in bible it contadicts itself
Hello fabs,
There are two points in this post:
1-You posted the following on post #23 on this thread:
How do you explain that two groups of people -each having a very different view about God Almighty- will be saved?
Seriously, just think about it more deeply.
The Jews reject the notion that Jesus [peace be upon him] is divine in any way [which is the Muslim position as well], and they further reject that he's a Prophet [contrary to what Muslims believe]. They call him an illegitimate son, and they call his mother the Honourable Virgin Mary names. [I seek refuge with Allah from such words].
The Christians -on the other hand- believe in the divinity of Jesus [peace be upon him], that he should be worshiped along with the Holy Spirit [which Muslims believe to be a title of the Angel Gabriel] and God Almighty [who Christians term as "The Father" when they speak of Him as part of the trinity]. They try to maintain that they still believe in one God, but as a trinity. This makes no sense, and they call the trinity "a mystery" because however hard they try to rationalize it, it just doesn't work. So, the vast majority of Christians are in fact worshiping others besides God Almighty [i.e., they worship Jesus -peace be upon him- and the Holy Spirit].
And you're telling me that Jews and Christians -while having these very different beliefs in God Almighty- are both to achieve salvation?!
In that same post [#23], you said:
How can the Jews [who rejected God's Messenger Jesus -peace be upon him-] still be called "His people"?
How can the Christians [who worshiped others along with God Almighty] still be called "His people"?
2- You posted the following in your last post:
Why do you associate "the joy of living" with sexually explicit words? There are subtle references in the Qur'an about the relationship between a man and a woman without going into such details. For example, read the following verse:
"It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them."
[Interpretation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:187]
The following is an incident that happened to the Prophet [peace be upon him] which shows the Islamic attitude towards "the joy of living". I shall first post it in Arabic, then I'll post its translation into English, so that Arabic speaking brothers in Islam may correct the translation if I was mistaken:
جاء ثلاث رهط إلى بيوت أزواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، يسألون عن عبادة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فلما أخبروا كأنهم تقالوها ، فقالوا : أين نحن من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ؟ قد غفر الله له ما تقدم من ذنبه وما تأخر ، قال أحدهم : أما أنا فإني أصلي الليل أبدا ، وقال آخر : أنا أصوم الدهر ولا أفطر ، وقال آخر : أنا أعتزل النساء فلا أتزوج أبدا ، فجاء رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : ( أنتم الذين قلتم كذا وكذا ؟ أما والله أتي لأخشاكم لله وأتقاكم له ، لكني أصوم وأفطر ، وأصلي وأرقد ، وأتزوج النساء ، فمن رغب عن سنتي فليس مني )
A group of three men came to houses of the wives of the Prophet [peace be upon him] asking how the Prophet worshiped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, it's as if they thought it was little and said, "Where are we from the Prophet [peace be upon him] as his past and future sins have been forgiven."
Then one of them said, "I offer Salat (prayer) throughout the night forever."
The other said, "I observe Saum (fast) throughout the year and will not break my Saum."
The third said, "I keep away from the women and will not marry forever."
Allah's Messenger [peace be upon him] came and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more afraid of Allah than you and [..........]; yet I observe Saum and also do not observe Saum, I do offer Salat and do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my Sunnah (legal ways) [in religion] is not from me (not one of my followers)."
[Collected by Al-Bukhari and Muslim and translated by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan -with modifications by myself-, Al-Lu'lu'wal-Marjan..Arabic English, A Collection of Agreed upon Ahadith from Al-Bukhari and Muslim, Volume One, Hadith no. 885, pages 442-443, published by Dar-us-Salam Publications, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, First Edition 1995 AD - 1416 AH]
The dotted lines between two brackets [........] is to show my inability to translate the phrase وأتقاكم له, since it also generally means the Prophet's fear of God Almighty, but there must be a subtle difference that I cannot translate.
And the following is part of a hadith where the Prophet [peace be upon him] said:
وفي بضع أحدكم صدقة " . قالوا : يا رسول الله ! أياتي أحدنا شهوته ويكون له فيها أجر ؟ قال : " أرأيتم لو وضعها في حرام أكان عليه فيها وزر ؟ فكذلك إذا وضعها في الحلال كان له أجرا " .
"..........and lawful sexual intercourse is a charity." They -i.e. The Prophet's Companions- said, "O Messenger of God! Will one of us satisfy his sexual desire and be rewarded for it? He said, "Do you see that if he were to put it [i.e. sexual desire] in a forbidden [relationship], won't he earn a sin by that? Then also when he puts it in a lawful [relationship] he will earn a good deed."
[Collected by Muslim, Hadith no. 1006. My translation]
You also have to remember, fabs, that the Holy Book of the religion of God Almighty is to be the focus of the believers' lives, whether they are children or adults.
Would you be comfortable letting your children read sexually explicit material? Do you really believe that God Almighty would allow such material in His Scriptures?
If an ordinary man were to write such material, then honest and fair minded people would rebuke him, and his book will be classified under the "adult" section of bookstores in liberal Western countries.
3- You posted the following question:
The document you're referring to [The Qur'an] is itself a miracle. It's in an Arabic language so pure and moving that some bitter enemies of Islam reverted to Islam by the power of its meanings and its style.
And even though a translation of the Qur'an's meanings cannot convey the miraculous nature to non Arabs, they can still move people to revert to Islam. It's unlike any other book.
There are Christian priests who read the Qur'an in order to prepare themselves to argue with Muslim scholars and ended up becoming Muslims themselves.
For more information about the miraculous nature of the Qur'an, click on the following links:
http://www.islam-guide.com/
Please take note of Chapter 1.
I'll leave you with verses of the Qur'an which best describe our Lord, God Almighty:
"He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him. He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
[Interpretation of the meanings of the Qur'an 59:22-24]
I hope you all the best fabs,
Best regards,
Bluegazer
There are two points in this post:
1-You posted the following on post #23 on this thread:
How do you explain that two groups of people -each having a very different view about God Almighty- will be saved?
Seriously, just think about it more deeply.
The Jews reject the notion that Jesus [peace be upon him] is divine in any way [which is the Muslim position as well], and they further reject that he's a Prophet [contrary to what Muslims believe]. They call him an illegitimate son, and they call his mother the Honourable Virgin Mary names. [I seek refuge with Allah from such words].
The Christians -on the other hand- believe in the divinity of Jesus [peace be upon him], that he should be worshiped along with the Holy Spirit [which Muslims believe to be a title of the Angel Gabriel] and God Almighty [who Christians term as "The Father" when they speak of Him as part of the trinity]. They try to maintain that they still believe in one God, but as a trinity. This makes no sense, and they call the trinity "a mystery" because however hard they try to rationalize it, it just doesn't work. So, the vast majority of Christians are in fact worshiping others besides God Almighty [i.e., they worship Jesus -peace be upon him- and the Holy Spirit].
And you're telling me that Jews and Christians -while having these very different beliefs in God Almighty- are both to achieve salvation?!
In that same post [#23], you said:
How can the Jews [who rejected God's Messenger Jesus -peace be upon him-] still be called "His people"?
How can the Christians [who worshiped others along with God Almighty] still be called "His people"?
2- You posted the following in your last post:
Why do you associate "the joy of living" with sexually explicit words? There are subtle references in the Qur'an about the relationship between a man and a woman without going into such details. For example, read the following verse:
"It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them."
[Interpretation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:187]
The following is an incident that happened to the Prophet [peace be upon him] which shows the Islamic attitude towards "the joy of living". I shall first post it in Arabic, then I'll post its translation into English, so that Arabic speaking brothers in Islam may correct the translation if I was mistaken:
جاء ثلاث رهط إلى بيوت أزواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، يسألون عن عبادة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فلما أخبروا كأنهم تقالوها ، فقالوا : أين نحن من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ؟ قد غفر الله له ما تقدم من ذنبه وما تأخر ، قال أحدهم : أما أنا فإني أصلي الليل أبدا ، وقال آخر : أنا أصوم الدهر ولا أفطر ، وقال آخر : أنا أعتزل النساء فلا أتزوج أبدا ، فجاء رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : ( أنتم الذين قلتم كذا وكذا ؟ أما والله أتي لأخشاكم لله وأتقاكم له ، لكني أصوم وأفطر ، وأصلي وأرقد ، وأتزوج النساء ، فمن رغب عن سنتي فليس مني )
A group of three men came to houses of the wives of the Prophet [peace be upon him] asking how the Prophet worshiped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, it's as if they thought it was little and said, "Where are we from the Prophet [peace be upon him] as his past and future sins have been forgiven."
Then one of them said, "I offer Salat (prayer) throughout the night forever."
The other said, "I observe Saum (fast) throughout the year and will not break my Saum."
The third said, "I keep away from the women and will not marry forever."
Allah's Messenger [peace be upon him] came and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more afraid of Allah than you and [..........]; yet I observe Saum and also do not observe Saum, I do offer Salat and do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my Sunnah (legal ways) [in religion] is not from me (not one of my followers)."
[Collected by Al-Bukhari and Muslim and translated by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan -with modifications by myself-, Al-Lu'lu'wal-Marjan..Arabic English, A Collection of Agreed upon Ahadith from Al-Bukhari and Muslim, Volume One, Hadith no. 885, pages 442-443, published by Dar-us-Salam Publications, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, First Edition 1995 AD - 1416 AH]
The dotted lines between two brackets [........] is to show my inability to translate the phrase وأتقاكم له, since it also generally means the Prophet's fear of God Almighty, but there must be a subtle difference that I cannot translate.
And the following is part of a hadith where the Prophet [peace be upon him] said:
وفي بضع أحدكم صدقة " . قالوا : يا رسول الله ! أياتي أحدنا شهوته ويكون له فيها أجر ؟ قال : " أرأيتم لو وضعها في حرام أكان عليه فيها وزر ؟ فكذلك إذا وضعها في الحلال كان له أجرا " .
"..........and lawful sexual intercourse is a charity." They -i.e. The Prophet's Companions- said, "O Messenger of God! Will one of us satisfy his sexual desire and be rewarded for it? He said, "Do you see that if he were to put it [i.e. sexual desire] in a forbidden [relationship], won't he earn a sin by that? Then also when he puts it in a lawful [relationship] he will earn a good deed."
[Collected by Muslim, Hadith no. 1006. My translation]
You also have to remember, fabs, that the Holy Book of the religion of God Almighty is to be the focus of the believers' lives, whether they are children or adults.
Would you be comfortable letting your children read sexually explicit material? Do you really believe that God Almighty would allow such material in His Scriptures?
If an ordinary man were to write such material, then honest and fair minded people would rebuke him, and his book will be classified under the "adult" section of bookstores in liberal Western countries.
3- You posted the following question:
The document you're referring to [The Qur'an] is itself a miracle. It's in an Arabic language so pure and moving that some bitter enemies of Islam reverted to Islam by the power of its meanings and its style.
And even though a translation of the Qur'an's meanings cannot convey the miraculous nature to non Arabs, they can still move people to revert to Islam. It's unlike any other book.
There are Christian priests who read the Qur'an in order to prepare themselves to argue with Muslim scholars and ended up becoming Muslims themselves.
For more information about the miraculous nature of the Qur'an, click on the following links:
http://www.islam-guide.com/
Please take note of Chapter 1.
I'll leave you with verses of the Qur'an which best describe our Lord, God Almighty:
"He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him. He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
[Interpretation of the meanings of the Qur'an 59:22-24]
I hope you all the best fabs,
Best regards,
Bluegazer
American Muslim
Just Another Slave
fabs, yeah, that's the hard cold truth of it. I would like to say that no one person knows even their own fate, much less some one else's. But yes, the Qu'aran tells us that kuffar will go to the hellfire. If your beliefs are strong, rely on them, call on your god on the Day. But just do yourself the service of reading a copy of the meaning of the Qu'aran. In English, I prefer the Yusuf Ali, The Meaning of the Glorious Qu'aran. Remember, we are not attacking you here. I aplogize for all of us if you are getting that feeling. You asked a hard question and only got the honest, hard answer.
visionusman
being content
Assalamualaikum all. I would like to remind every one of a simple fact. It is not our job or for that matter any one else's to convert any person, or to even convince them about Islam's truth. The Prophet SAW once said that he could not even convert one person to Islam except for Allah's will. I personally believe we should all limit our selves to replying to the querries raised. That should be the end of the matter. As an example please look at my earlier responses on this and other threads started by fabs.
Of course I may be completely wrong. That is why this is only my humble opinion. May Allah SWT guide us all.
Of course I may be completely wrong. That is why this is only my humble opinion. May Allah SWT guide us all.
Ahmed_2000
Servant of Allah
Salaam Allaikum
visionusman , You are right But Fabs dont Listen and read anything . i think the matter he is here is to Defend his Religion. and not really seeking the Truth. or Even Considering to see. Many people have replied to his many queries but he is just not reading anything. i provided him links to quite a few things , but he never reads it completly as if he just came to Defend his faith. and reject any Evidence whatsoever. look at his thread and you will see his replys. and we wont be guiding him as we are not ALLAH (GOD), but if we provide him some information then he is suppposed to read it atleast , or else whats the point of his comming to this site.
Because Once the Question is raied then he is suposed to read answer to that question , or else why is he raising questions when he has no intention to read the answer. I am not trying to force anything on him but if he doesnt like Islam then he can continue beliving in whatever he likes , why is here then. this site is for people who want more knowledge in Islam and not for debates, for debates there are many other sites.
Salaam Allaikum
visionusman , You are right But Fabs dont Listen and read anything . i think the matter he is here is to Defend his Religion. and not really seeking the Truth. or Even Considering to see. Many people have replied to his many queries but he is just not reading anything. i provided him links to quite a few things , but he never reads it completly as if he just came to Defend his faith. and reject any Evidence whatsoever. look at his thread and you will see his replys. and we wont be guiding him as we are not ALLAH (GOD), but if we provide him some information then he is suppposed to read it atleast , or else whats the point of his comming to this site.
Because Once the Question is raied then he is suposed to read answer to that question , or else why is he raising questions when he has no intention to read the answer. I am not trying to force anything on him but if he doesnt like Islam then he can continue beliving in whatever he likes , why is here then. this site is for people who want more knowledge in Islam and not for debates, for debates there are many other sites.
Salaam Allaikum
junaid hasan
Banned
i know that brother fabs will tell now that he reads every thing,
but do you know how he read it?
during he reads all those documents his eyes was closed!
can you believe that?
brother fab you are here to learn and ask.
so learn and ask but we dont want to hear , do you believe it or abhor it.
keep it in your mind for your self and for the day of judgement.
but do you know how he read it?
during he reads all those documents his eyes was closed!
can you believe that?
brother fab you are here to learn and ask.
so learn and ask but we dont want to hear , do you believe it or abhor it.
keep it in your mind for your self and for the day of judgement.
F
fabs
Guest
I have been reading everything, every response...
What do you expect me to say about a Koranic citation? I can read it, I can check it but I still have no idea.
Either way, this thread should be closed, I got my answer and there's nothing more to say about it.
What do you expect me to say about a Koranic citation? I can read it, I can check it but I still have no idea.
Either way, this thread should be closed, I got my answer and there's nothing more to say about it.
junaid hasan
Banned
na endlich
well finally it was the first time that brother fabs got his answer.
i will spend 5 euro inshallah in allahs way.
well finally it was the first time that brother fabs got his answer.
i will spend 5 euro inshallah in allahs way.
:salam2:
Ok. Now here’s how it goes. I think we have had plenty of discussion on this topic. All what has been posted is correct. However, this is what I have heard and thus I place it in good trust because the person who told it would not have done so without evidence.
Those who disbelieve in Allah will go to Hell. That statement is simple and true, but all disbeliveers cannot be classed alike. There are some disbelievers who deny Islam after it has been given to them, while others were never exposed to Islam. Islam is perfect, it is the truth for all who care to witness, so the people who reject Islam after having contact and knowledge of it shall not have anything accepted of them. The people who have never heard of Islam, never had contact with it before, they are said to be in a different category however. These people (as I have heard it, May Allah forgive me if I am wrong) will have a test after they die and depending on whether they pass or fail is their salvation. Allah knows Best about these people, we do not.
This stresses two points: The Importance of an Individual to Seek Knowledge, and the Importance of A Muslim to Give Dawah (call to Islam).
Without knowledge a person is ignorant and through this ignorance may make mistakes which a person may regret later on. Just because a person is Muslim doesn’t mean they stop seeking knowledge. Islam is so beautiful; it covers all aspects of life. A person could spend their entire lives learning about it and never stop. However Islam is also moderation. Learn about Dunya to live in Dunya and learn about Islam for your Akirah (hereafter).
Islam is not only an individual thing, it is a gift some have been given and should strive to spread. Every individual must do his very best to call others to Islam, to bring them to Islam, so that they are not held accountable for not doing so on the Day of Judgment. Hidaya (guidance) is from Allah (swt) our duty is to spread the word, we cannot change anyone’s feelings of our accord. As a Da’ee we must be patient and we must not throw accusations or suspect anyone of anything which we do not know about.
And if I might also add, Fabs, I congratulate the fact that you search for the Truth and I wish you all the best in it, but please respect the members here as well. We do not post things just on what we want them to be, but how Islam tells us it is. As this is a Muslim forum, I would just like to make it clear that we do not accept any other forms of opinions that contradict our beliefs. What has been told to us, we accept, I hope you understand that.
Thanks.
Topic Locked.
Ok. Now here’s how it goes. I think we have had plenty of discussion on this topic. All what has been posted is correct. However, this is what I have heard and thus I place it in good trust because the person who told it would not have done so without evidence.
Those who disbelieve in Allah will go to Hell. That statement is simple and true, but all disbeliveers cannot be classed alike. There are some disbelievers who deny Islam after it has been given to them, while others were never exposed to Islam. Islam is perfect, it is the truth for all who care to witness, so the people who reject Islam after having contact and knowledge of it shall not have anything accepted of them. The people who have never heard of Islam, never had contact with it before, they are said to be in a different category however. These people (as I have heard it, May Allah forgive me if I am wrong) will have a test after they die and depending on whether they pass or fail is their salvation. Allah knows Best about these people, we do not.
This stresses two points: The Importance of an Individual to Seek Knowledge, and the Importance of A Muslim to Give Dawah (call to Islam).
Without knowledge a person is ignorant and through this ignorance may make mistakes which a person may regret later on. Just because a person is Muslim doesn’t mean they stop seeking knowledge. Islam is so beautiful; it covers all aspects of life. A person could spend their entire lives learning about it and never stop. However Islam is also moderation. Learn about Dunya to live in Dunya and learn about Islam for your Akirah (hereafter).
Islam is not only an individual thing, it is a gift some have been given and should strive to spread. Every individual must do his very best to call others to Islam, to bring them to Islam, so that they are not held accountable for not doing so on the Day of Judgment. Hidaya (guidance) is from Allah (swt) our duty is to spread the word, we cannot change anyone’s feelings of our accord. As a Da’ee we must be patient and we must not throw accusations or suspect anyone of anything which we do not know about.
And if I might also add, Fabs, I congratulate the fact that you search for the Truth and I wish you all the best in it, but please respect the members here as well. We do not post things just on what we want them to be, but how Islam tells us it is. As this is a Muslim forum, I would just like to make it clear that we do not accept any other forms of opinions that contradict our beliefs. What has been told to us, we accept, I hope you understand that.
Thanks.
Topic Locked.
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