Discussion in 'Muslim History Video' started by Mabsoot, Jun 17, 2006.
my ancestors got kicked out of that place
its sad all lost
jazakallah khair for posting this up... it's always interesting to look back at islamic history...
Simply suberb video.
Jazak Allahu Alf Alf Khairan for sharing this magnificent video.
U have been to Andalucia? Wow You r so lucky to have witnessed such splendid places.
Islamic places like in Andalucia &Turkey always facinates me.
Hope i go there too one day.(Inshallah)
Very interesting video! Watching this video actually provoked me to read other books and watch other documentaries on it. Now I plan to study there in the future InshaAllah. Jazaak Allahu khayran for posting this and sharing this beautiful Muslim history with us!
Allahu Akbar! truth will reveal it self insha Allah. i never knew muslims lived or ruled in spain. Allahu Akbar! we are so close. jazak ALlahu khayra for sharing this nice video.
The Jizya was and can still be sophistcated system - the spanish at the time had a bad social and economic infrastructure - thats similar to the Jerusalem under the Byzantines - the muslim came and liberated some of the places - they let the non muslims keep there land, religion and follow there own laws, they even gave them high positions, Dhimmis are not second class citizens but pay the Jizya becaus its a tax - they dont have to pay Zakat, sadqa, be in the army and there land, rights, honor and property is protected under the muslims rule as long as they pay tax just like any country.
this "idea" that dhimmis have no rights is a joke.
wow, i am from the uk and i haven't heard much about this history before. it's strange to think what the world could have been like if christians hadn't expelled muslims from spain. It's kind of sad in a way. Islam in most cases is shown to be full of fanatics and people who are from the east with very little worthy knowledge...this video with it's short piece of history shows that without Islam, western europe could've been so very different.
Thank you so much for this post, it shows me how ignorant i have been about the history of christianity and Islam.
Thanks for posting.
The only purpose of Jizya is to encourage non-Muslims to join Islam. The taxes can be so high that those who choose not to convert are subject to elevated levels of poverty, discrimination, and so forth. No? Look at Iran. Why doesn't the West invoke a form of Jizya on its Muslim subjects? Oh, because... that would be racist
:salam2: ( peace be upon you)
im guessing you didn't read Islamic history i took a class in my univ in North America by a American teacher not a muslim and she clarified that Jizya was really small amount of taxes it wasn't too much, its like any goverment that puts small amount plus most of the non-muslim settlers were pretty rich,
also even now in canada the Natives dont have to pay any tax but everyone does that does mean everyone is going to convert to native religions so we could be considered like that
Please ur being illogical no one gives us their beliefs just for some money.
For some money, no. To get out of economic hardship, perhaps.
The origin of the Bosniaks arises partially from this. The Ottomans taxed them harshly.
actually ottomans taxed everyone according to history cuz they needed all the money they can for their empire,
and then again if someone changes their religion just for money then they r the worse person out there ... people actually understood islam and then converted otherwise conversion is a big thing
Well, that is a reason why the Serbs have such an issue with Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) in the former Yugoslavia. They (the Serbs) felt that the Bosniaks abandoned Christianity to get an easy ticket out of the Jizya. The Serbs had it easier: They lived in the mountains, where the Ottomans either didn't bother with or didn't care to bother dealing with the Serbs, thus allowing them to retain their Christianity. When Yugoslavia fell apart, the Serbs let the Bosniaks know just how they felt. It isn't condoning what happened there by any stretch, mind. Merely taking what your point ("then they r the worse person out there") and applying it from a Serbian standpoint.
Sorry but that is not true because Muslims must pay Zakat and it wouldn't make sense to convert to avoid jizya and now have to pay zakat, and jizya is not for everyone but only males of certain ages and only those who could afford. Jizya is means of protection, it guarantees safety and the services offered to all citizens. Actually, Christians, Jews and many others loved living under living under Muslims rather than under their own leaders because they had rights which were denied by their owm. this is not my opinion but a fact which is admitted and proven by christian/western scholars themselves. If it were not for Muslims, the church of my parents (Nestorians) of Iraq would not have survived because they were declared heretics by other Christians and were persecuted and killed for centuries.
Muslims never forced people to convert nor did they kill those who refused because Islam is complete and clear to the honest, sincere and truth seekers. If one is not willing to revert to Islam, they paid jizya which exempted them from military and this was a small fee for all the services provided. I can bring you books and quotes from bishops, priests, and historians praising the Muslims and how they were welcomed by the many native people of the various lands. I suggest you get your information from reliable sources unless you are too prejudice to do so. Also, with all due respect, but I have noticed by reading your posts on here that you are verey misinformed about Islam but you have made sure to observe the actions of ignorant Muslims or of those who do not practice it. When I was a Christian, I was full have hatred and bigotry toward Islam and all my information was twisted and false. Had I not investigated on my own with honesty, I would probably be in jail right now for killing innocent Muslims but here I am today and i am thankful to God.
If you are here to learn about Islam, you have found the right place but if you have other agendas such as making false statements or debating about your opinions, i would say save your breath because you would only be wasting time on useless stuff. If you have questions or need something clarified, please ask and we'll answer your questions InshaAllah.
Not true and no real historian has ever suggested such evidence ever. In fact, there is evidence to prove the contrary. Muslims ruled eastern Europe for centuries and if that were the case they would have done so to the greeks, Romanians, etc but they didn't. If that were indeed true for the sake of argument, Jews and Christians would not have been fleeing by night to come live under the Ottomans and other Muslims. The only religion to spread by force, deception, fraught and by all sorts of dirty tactics was Christianity and that too is admitted by Christian scholars. Ever heard of Will Durant? I doubt you would read that because it doesn't comply with your prejudices.
The jizya was only to protect and guarantee the rights of non-Muslims and it is unfortunate that Christians were not tolerant toward even their own. No one has killed more Christians than Christians have and no one has murdered more people than Christians have. It was Christianity which practiced forced conversions, killing people for refusing to convert and practiced total intolerance. These are not my opinions but the statements and proven facts of historians and scholars. When I say scholars and historians, I mean real ones not them clowns that the Islam haters love to quote as "experts" when they are laughed at. Your prejudices are evident but you know what? As a Muslim, I am obligated to be honest and just whether against my foe or friend and no matter how much I may dislike someone or something, i must be honest and fair. i will not slander my enemy nor bring him to his knees like a coward. I don't have lie or slander Christianity because the truth about its history and spread is available and admitted by honest Christian historians.
Unlike Islam haters, I don't have to slander anyone and I wouldn't be able to even if I wanted to do so. However, when it comes to Islam, those wishing to attack it can't come up with anything real so they turn to bigots whose works are rejected and laughed at even by Christian historians. Those who attack Islam and make slanders against it are in reality guilty of the things they accuse Islam of. Out of embarrassment they have to accuse Islam of what they are guilty of. You may assume I hate Christianity but it is the contrary. all my family except my two brothers are Christians, I have friends who are Christian and I too used to be one. Now you will not catch me elsewhere or on Christian sites attacking, insulting and slandering them and you sure as heck will not find me on here bashing or lying about them.
I don't have to lie about it nor am i slandering when I say that Christians have killed more people than anyone else, and in the last 200 years alone they have killed more than Muslims have in 1,400 years. I am also not slandering when I say it was Christians who forced people to convert at the pain of death and killed people just for religion. What you say about Islam is slander, it is false and has no basis in history. If Muslims would have borrowed christian tactics, it would not only be the fastest growing religion, as it is right now and second largest over all, but it would have been bigger than many religions combined, however, Muslims never adopted that and they weren't allowed even if they wanted to because the Quran and Sunnah prohibit forced conversions or using deception. My duty is not to "save" you because only God saves people but my duty is only to let others know about Islam with honesty and the rest is up to the individual and God.
The nations with some of the largest Muslim populations are those which never saw a Muslim army or conquest and even those lands which were for centuries under Islamic rule still have non-Muslims and their places of worship are still standing. The funniest of all the lie that Bosniaks were over taxed and that is why they embraced Islam when that is not true. The jizya was never more than a person could handle and it was even better than zakat because in Islam both men and women are obliged to pay Zakat while jhizya is only for the men of certain ages. I shouldn't even have to write thins long but I thought I point out the falsehood in your statement and there are books after books which are written by Christian historians and some where even anti-Muslim yet they too admit the Muslim tolerance. I know your types and I deal with them all the time elsewhere and I know where they get their sources from. If I remember correctly, you stated that you know one Quranic verse by heart and that's the one about hitting women, hmmm I wonder why only that one, but then again, I am not shocked at all.
The truth of Islam is available to all who are interested and those who are arrogant, prejudice and reject the truth after it is clear, it is up to God to deal with them just as He will deal with all of us accurately, wisely and Justly. May Allah guide you and all of us to the straight path, Amin.
Much of northern India was converted by force. Don't take it from me, seek it out on your own. My word is no good.
Top class references. Good luck for searching the truth *thumbs up*
dont get schock if u read tomorrow in wiki that i am the next US president.
the west charges tax - some people can run away from it such as rich people - Lakshmi Mittel and Philip Green who pay less tax just beacsue they are rich enough to move to monoco (safe hevens) whilst the rest of the people cant run away form it beacsue they are not rich enough to go to safe havens - there is always discrimniation in tax -
no your wrong the only purpose of Jizya is not to make them muslim - it is there to pay for there policing - Jizya is only 5% - somebody has to pay for it - they dont have to pay Zakat, sadaqa or state tax - they are also allowed to live by there own laws - look at how Omar ibn Kattab (ra)treated them.
Iran is not an Islamic state there is no caliph there.
and yes Wikipedia is not realy the best source to back your claims.......
By the way Islam is not a race so it wouldnt be racism.
What a joke and what a freaking clown. How in the world did I know the sources where you get your crap from? Wkipedia is a real source? are joking with me? Please don't waste my time and don't embarrass yourself. I just got done humiliating a so called "expert" in this field and all his claims were opinions and he has not been able to bring one piece of evidence from real sources where, A, Muslims killed people just for religion and, B, Muslims forced people to convert by torture. Of course your word is no good neither is mine if it is only my own opinion and on top of that it is false. Northern India was not forced into Islam and let me guess you got that from Wikipedia too huh? My goodness people of your types are so desperate yet have nothing in reality but opinion and bigotry. However, let us see what historians have to say about India, and this too by a Christian missionary and historian who spent a long time in India and write many books on Islam. You see, people that make such slanders do not know what it takes to be a real historian and that is why the Islam haters have to turn to lies, opinions and wikipedia because there is no real evidence to prove their claims but there is a whole lot to prove the contrary. Again these are not my opinions nor did I get this from my grandma but from real historians, and they are not Muslims on top of that.
"…Muslims point to the long centuries during which in India, Spain, and the Near East, Christians, Jews, and Hindus lived quietly and in freedom under Muslim rule. Even under the worst caliphs, Christians and Jews held positions of influence and in general retained their religious freedom. The Christians, not Muslims, we are reminded, expelled the Jews in the fifteenth century from Spain where they had lived in freedom while the Muslims were in power. To press this example: Spain and Anatolia changed hands at about the same time — Christians expelled the Moors from Spain while Muslims conquered what is now Turkey. Every Muslim was driven from Spain, or put to the sword, or forced to convert, whereas the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church remains in Istanbul to this day. Indeed, if comparisons are the issue, Muslims consider Christianity’s record to be the darker of the two. Who was it, they ask, who preached the Crusades in the name of the Prince of Peace? Who instituted the inquisition, invented the rack and the stake as instruments of religion, and plunged Europe into its devastating wars of religion? "
Thomas W. Arnold
"We have never heard about any attempt to compel non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organized persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years. "
Thomas W Arnold about Hindus:
"That the conversion were in the main voluntary, may be judged from the toleration that the Arabs, after the first violence of their onslaught, showed towards their idolatrous subjects. The people of Brahmanabad, for example, whose city had been taken by storm, were allowed to repair their temple, which was a means of livelihood to the Brahmans, and nobody was to be forbidden or prevented from following his own religion, and generally, where submission was made, quarter was readily given, and the people were permitted the exercise of their own creeds and laws. (p. 272)"
" The history of proselytising movements and the social influences that brought about their attention, and most of the commonly accessible histories of the Muhammadans in Indian, whether written by Europeans or by native authors, are mere chronicles of wars, campaigns and the achievements of princes, in which little mention of the religious life of the time finds a place, unless it has taken the form of fanaticism or intolerance. (p. 255) "
Again, there are many more to refute the lie and thanks for giving me your references because it only shows that I was right about my assumtion of where people of your types get their sources from.
Separate names with a comma.