Why do some ppl follow Qur'an and Sunnah and reject Hadith?

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Brother, you can blame me for whatever. Those are the comments I get to see from "sincere" quranists on youtube and heard from other muslims.

Yes. Quranists believe that one must read the quran themselves as commanded by Allah and not blindly follow anyone, including scholars:

The Quranists don't understand that hadith and sunnah are not always the same. The tafsir of Qur'an is also a sunnah. Yes, we blindly follow the tafsir handed down by Prophet Muhammad (Sall-allahu allayhi wasallam) to his companions and so and so forth. THAT IS THE AUTHENTIC TAFSIR. NOT YOUR VERSION.

If everyone can interpret their tafsir according to their intelligence, I am sorry, that is not something advisable.

How do Quranists understand Qur'an using Qur'an? It always amazes me.

Sister, If your are having fun knowing the beliefs of Quranists. let me tell you more:

The Quranists think masturbation is not haram, because there is no verse prohibiting that.

The Quranists think sending peace and blessings upon the Prophet Muhammad (Sall-allahu Alayhi wasallam) and Prophet Ibraheem (Allayhi-salam) in Prayer is a Shirk.

The Qur'anists don't even have a tawheed.

One more question: How do the Qur'anists perform hajj?

If the Qur'anists really believe the tafsir according to the companions of the Messenger, then you should be following the sunnah and hadith as well. Unfortunately, they don't do that. I had one Qur'anist saying "Ibn Mas'ud (Radiallahu Anhu) was wrong, just like you". How can you even talk to these people? Whoever differs with their opinion or their version of tafsir - they consider them wrong.

Allah, the Almighty said "And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it and whatsover he forbids you, abstain (from it)". (al-Hashr 59:7)

The Qur'an has commanded us to follow the Messenger, Sa'llallahu Alayi wasallam.

"If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to convey the message in a clear way." (al-Noor 24:54)

The Exalted says : "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah." (An-Nisa 4:80).

The above verses should be enough to follow the sunnah for a person who believes in the tafsir of the Salaf.

 

[Tomtom]

As'alaamu Alaikkum

A simple question for brother qwel.

Do you think that the Muslims have been mislead by scholars from the beginning?

If the answer is yes, then I assume that the four Madhabs are nonsensical to a quranist?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

It has been a long long road for me to be where I am. I was blessed. I was the one who always had faith. I was teased as a child, young adult, and now very adult.

Some are born with fortune, some are born with wisdom, some are born with beauty...I was the one with faith...it makes many many upset with me...I find a way to look at the positive in anything..when others give up I start..sometimes I wonder if I am lacking a couple of those cells that do not regenerate.

When I encounter arguments over Quran and Sunnah I am simply befuddled. ( good old word).

I know that youth must be speaking. I know that there are times in your life when you are tested that a Believer goes to other Believers; or sometimes the pain is so great that you have to work it out yourself..( I think I have a PH.D on that one).

Islam is easy. I am not going to argue. All the arguments in the world are not going to give me the security of pleasing Allah.

As I have written before, for simpletons like me, the Sunnah gives me the practical application of divine instructions. This builds the scaffolding for My Love. As I approach Love..I am ready.

So, I will read what the young Quranist tells me; however, I suggest that the young Quranist not worry about surveys. I do not know of any survey that will get me to heaven. And, I ask that he think about times when we are tested...I do not know about him..but when I am tested as I wrote...I use everything I have to help me out.

We are all Quranists. We love the Quran. But this ist...stuff..what does that have to do with serving Allah.

 

[Ershad]

Walaikkum Asalam wa rahamatullahi wa barakatu,

Peace, my brother. I don't claim I am on the straight path. I can only keep striving for it. I am just saying follow the companions of the Prophet Muhammad Sal-allahu-Allayhi wasallam. The righteous predecessors. That is the straight Path without doubt. Since you have judged me as not worthy of discussion, peace my brother. However, If you wish, You can answer the questions that I asked in previous posts and condemn the beliefs that I have found in some Qur'anists that I have seen (I hope that sounds acceptable).

May Allah guide us all.

 

[Parvaiz]

:salam2:
Watch this video sister will clear some of your doubts

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[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikkum,

Wow. I don't know what brother qwel has to say about brother abu mussab. He says the Ulema say Qur'anists are kuffar. Beautiful Video

 

[strive-may-i]

Quran 4:113

Assalamu Alaikum:

I had a question springing often in my mind. How were Hadiths revealed to Muhammad (SAW)?. Is each and every Hadith (established authentic) from Prophet (SAW) divinely inspired?.

I recall a verse from Quran where Allah (SWT) says (meaning) that Our servant doesn't says anything of His own,does this apply to Hadiths also?.

Regards.

Almighty Allah says in Surat An-nisa' -

"Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad SAW), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Quran), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad SAW) [Quran 4:113]"

Muhsin Khan Translation

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

Please help me understand your perspective. I have difficulty with the word canonization. It implies shirk. I do not believe that is the appropriate word you would use.

Now..since you have brought up the subject..the evidence of proof lies in your court. Teach me..give me your perspective but not from a historians perspective. Historians are payed by those in power.

How can you present the status quo and say it is difficult to say. That makes the argument null and void.

Please give me references for your thought process.

I am a serious student of my faith and I am asking you to give me proof.

I thank you.

 

[Tomtom]

Muhsin Khan

And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?
54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40

 

[Ershad]

Brother qwel,

Here is my argument.

Now, this verse :

Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger, but if you turn away, Allah loves not the disbelievers. (Surat Al Imraan 3:32)

First part, Obey Allah - This refers to the Qur'an and if you follow Qur'an, you have done that.

Second part, Obey the Messenger - Where is this in your case? Have you followed this?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

I am no scholar. I am a simple and humble Believer. I try, I try.

Given that,

Help me out..this is simple. Trust me..when one is trying to practice faith, we look for help. In the hadith we are given insturctions for simple things.

Prayer..how do you pray?

Two, lets say a woman has to clean her husbands garment for prayer and the garment may have spillage from sexual intercourse. In the hadith we are given explict details of what is considered clean and pure to perform salat. We are told how to clean the garment. I know this is basic and some will probably want this to be deleted, but what do you say to this?

No, brother, the challenge is yours. You are the one who brought forth your view.

What do you do when you enter the masjid? What do you do when you have to do a prostration of forgetfulness in salat? Remember, this is not a scholar you address. You have to convince a simple Believer.

Are you telling me that I can not try to imitate the behavior of the companion in the cave?

Please know I am not taking this lightly.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

When hadeeth is scientifically proven to be Sahih, Quranists they still ignore it, because they wish to reject Sunna categorically alltogether to makeup their own beliefs. Thats why they dont even discuss the definition of Sahih Hadeeth, and have no efforts whatsoever in defining it. They dont want to define it and have to avoid it, because they take another route, which is believing in something that would allow them to makeup beliefs, then trying to find arguements to justify that belief.

So when the definition of Sahih Hadeeth is brought up, they find themselves in a logical trap. They must logically either have criteria for hadeeth that is different from the criteria of Ahl Al Sunna (which they cant because then it goes against their beliefs), or they ignore it alltogether, which is also a logical flaw, leading to rejecting the most mutawatir of hadeeths altogether without even looking into the tawator etc.

This, is nothing, but blind following. On top of this, their leader Rashad Khalifa claimed prophethood, and madeup a theory about the Qur'aan revolving around numbers, but to make his theory work, he rejected two verses from the Qur'aan saying they were not "canonical"

So they arent really qualified to talk about "blind following", because 1- Its not the way of the People of Sunnah to begin with, as they rely only on evidence. 2- They practice it themselves.

Rejecting Sunnah categorically, is a very convenient way to makeup your own beliefs, and interpret the Qur'aan based on nothing but desires of each independant individual, ending up with numerous "Islams" that arent related the least bit to the Islam the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him believed in along with his companions may Allah be pleased with them.

So this is why scholars of Ahl Al Sunnah unanimously agree that anyone who rejects Sunnah as a whole, is kafir, let alone rejecting Quranic verses, and claiming prophethood.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

Assalaam walaikum,
No, brother, the challenge is yours. You are the one who brought forth your view.

.

Exactly. I once debated one and all he did was post hadeeths that he says contradict eachother. I said and if I answer the contradiction? He said it doesnt matter i'll just give another one, and refused to take the discussion to the very definition of Sahih Hadeeth, because then it becomes impossible for them to reject Sunnah categorically. So they avoid scholarly approaches that deal with the issue from its roots.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

Because it is irrelevant. The "science" of hadith makes no difference to the authority of hadith because authority of hadith MUST come from the quran. One must prove its authority first before the issue of authenticity. Since quranists see no authority for any secondary source in the quran, what purpose does engaging in hadith science serve?



Please explain why ignoring the so-called science of hadith is a logical flaw.

How can you ask someone to prove authenticity of hadeeth, then when discussing the criteria and scientific basis of authenticity, you say its irrelevent? That does not make sense at all.

If you say "Well, im discussing the authority, not authenticity" then why bring up the issues of chains of transmissions and so on? implying its about authenticity not authority? One has to be consistent, if the issue is with the authority, then we ask "Do you not believe in obeying the prophet peace be upon him?" If so, then we'll have certain, clear arguements against that.

If you say the issue is with authenticity, then, my arguement remains.

So, since you're talking about authority now, do you disbelieve and reject the authority of the prophet in Islam!?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

And I have yet another question...

You mention that there is no need for uniformity.

I think I am silenced. WHAT???

Is that not the call of Allah upon us. Let me put it in my simple simple words...

Look around..everything calls for one standard..Islam. Jumma is important..more blessings..we are one.

And you did not answer my question..what do you do when you enter the masjid..what do you say on the way to the masjid..where is the protocol of prayer.

Ok...here I go again..You reject the behavior of the companion of the cave. You reject the behavior of the man who was the closest to the Prophet, may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him. I am not arriving at divine judgements. I am trying to improve the daily active manners of being a Believer. I follow divine judgements.

The Prophet gave instructions on how to be clean and pure for prayer. He instructed the Mothers of the Believers on how to clean so he would not enter the masjid smelling of sex. That set an example for us. Are you speaking for Allah subhana wa taala? You said He does not care..show me the proof? Please, where in the Quran does it state that the Master of the Day of Judgement does not care if we are impure?

What makes you an authority on prayer? I need to know. How do you pray? Who taught you? What are the exact rubrics of your prayer?

Brother, you presented your opinion. Now, back it up. Please. Do not use rhetoric. You are talking to someone who is simple. Your answers are insufficient. I am simple back and white.

You assessment of my faith is wrong. You have not walked in my shoes to arrive where I am.

Son, it takes a lot of hard living to come to Believe. It takes a lot of guts to simplify faith. So, the burden is yours to prove to me that your understanding and knowledge of faith is absolute.

That is what we are taking about. Certainty. I love that word.

Submission. Please tell me your definition.

And once again thank you.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

When have I asked anyone to prove authenticity of hadith?



I made no such implication and so cannot be held responsible for your lack of understanding. I was addressing the conflating of hadith and quran, where some suggest rejection of one logically requires the rejection of the other. The modes of transmission of the two texts are not the same. This has nothing to do with authenticity, but exposing the logical fallacy of the argument used.



No. I accept the authority of the messenger. Please present your argument that the hadith literature has any authority according to the quran.

You are now saying you accept the authority of the messenger, but imply that hadeeth has no authority, without being explicit about it. This takes us back to authenticity, which you didnt want to discuss when you said that its about authority, not authenticity.

So when you say you accept the authority of the messenger, yet deny authority of hadeeth, if this is not about authenticity of hadeeth, then what is it?

 

[Tomtom]

Sorry to butt in guys. Another question for bro qwel.

Muslims put a great emphasis on the actions of the Prophet (pbuh) and try to imitate him to the best of their ability. So are his actions just exclusive for him and should we imitate him or it doesn't matter?

 

[Muhammed303]

When you examine Islam carefully, you find about 90% of what is considered obligatory upon the Muslim, whether beliefs or actions, do not originate from the quran. Why is so much missing from the book that claims to be an explanation of all things? Why is so much missing from the book that forbids its reader from finding judgments in any statement besides it and forbids believing in any hadith?[/QUOTE]

"I have left among you two things; you will never go astray as long as you hold fast to them: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." (Al-Hakim)

Where do you find the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Salam's Sunnah in the Qu'ran? Details of Salah? Details of Fasting? Details of the branches of Iman? Of Resolving affairs etc? The Qu'ran is the word of Allah and the hadith explain the Qu'ran in more depth and how the Prophet S.A.W correctly practised them. If using the Qu'ran only as a source for Islam, then wouldn't this be just an invitation for Bid'ah and disagreement resulting in the forming of different ways of doing things?

For example if using the Qu'ran as an individual source of information then you might as well pray like the Christians do because there is no furthur explanation into how many Rakahs or how many times to prostrate etc. Many times in the Qu'ran in multiple places Allah subhana wa ta'ala says clearly to "obey Allah and the Messenger"


•Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
•O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).
•Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(24: 54).
•And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)
•And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)
•And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh. (4:64)

Rejecting the sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa salam is an act of clear cut kufr.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

No, I'm being perfectly explicit about it. I accept the authority of the messenger but reject the authority of hadith.



No, it doesn't take us back to authenticity. Let's stick to authority. Please provide evidence from the quran that hadith literature has authority.


It is about authority. I can see this is something of a conundrum for you, but some humility on your part may see you realize the coherence of a different view.

Maybe im slow, so please bare with me.

You accept the authority of the messenger, but reject the prophets hadeeths (sayings), and say its not about authenticity? How can this make sense?

 

[IslamIsSimple]

For this to make sense, you'd have to go back to the quran to understand the messenger's authority. Have you done so? Please provide your understanding of the scope of the messenger's authority in light of the quran.

My beliefs are not the issue of discussion and they are those of Ahl Al Sunnah which are very well known. It is your view that we are discussing.

So please explain how you say you accept the messengers authority, yet think this authority does not apply to any saying of his that has been proven to be perfectly authentic?