Women in Islam: Oppression or Liberation? Great article
- Thread starter Hajjerr
- Start date
a_stranger
Junior Member
Thank you sister
The highest state of liberation for any human is attained when he / she fulfill his perfect slavery to his creator. When he/she be a master of human desires , when he/ she directs his self and make it a follower of every nobility and full it with purity . The most pleasant feelings and a true happiness.
The highest state of liberation for any human is attained when he / she fulfill his perfect slavery to his creator. When he/she be a master of human desires , when he/ she directs his self and make it a follower of every nobility and full it with purity . The most pleasant feelings and a true happiness.
Hajjerr
He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Beautiful
Salam aleikum
Yes sister, you are right.
Here is a nice video: maybe matters so much how you dress ? but if all the world would be blind, who would you impress ?
a good inspiration.
[video=youtube;ejPZdadYab4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejPZdadYab4[/video]
Salam aleikum
Yes sister, you are right.
Here is a nice video: maybe matters so much how you dress ? but if all the world would be blind, who would you impress ?
a good inspiration.[video=youtube;ejPZdadYab4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejPZdadYab4[/video]
Precious Star
Junior Member
I often wonder why muslims feel the constant need to compare themselves to people in western countries. Islam is not a competition. We do not define ourselves in reference to other people. And, Islam is not a geographical entity. Islam is practiced in the east, west, north, south, etc.
But I think the answer to the debate about the liberation of women is the truism, "actions speak louder than words". We know what the Quran says and what the Holy Prophet SAW said. The issue has to be practical not theoretical.
I myself have often wondered what choices Islam has given me. And I am not talking about FAITH. My faith in Allah, the Quran, the day of Judgment, salaat, etc is intact. I am talking about the pratical realities of living. And, in my experience, Islam as it is practiced gives very little options to women. This is worldwide. Until Muslims change (note, i said "muslims", not Islam), this will always be the case.
As a muslim women, my options have been limited in terms of getting married and having children. I have stood by and watched countless muslim parents strive to ensure that their sons get married to pretty young slim things, and celebrate when their sons have girlfriends who then abracadabra "convert" to Islam and they happilly get married and have children.
As such, I am forced to work long hours. I worry constantly about my financial circumstances and fear that I may have to keep working until I am an older lady. I have to care for elderly parents, and be subject to their moods and demands in regards to food, whereas the sons do not have such obligations because they are busy with their own wives and children. And by "busy" I mean taking them on holidays, taking them to their extra-curricular activities, renovating their homes for their wives, etc.
I know that when my parents are deceased, most (2/3) of their money and home will go to my brothers, who will bby then be retired and will have nice pensions of their own. That leaves me in a very difficult predicametn.
You can't imagien what it is like to attend gas stations, autobody shops, etc where the majority of the people there are men. Yes, even in the west - the men take charge of these tasks, while the western women are able to stay home or do other things with their children.
As a muslim woman, I wonder who will take care of me when I get sick or get old, or even disabled. I find that in western countries, brothers and sisters, parents, all help each other, whereas in muslim families the lines are very very strictly drawn -- i am the daughter, unmarried, so I have to help my parents, whereas they do not have any obligation toward helping me unless it is from the goodness of their own heart. But when they are sick and cranky, they are not going to offer to go to the pharmacy to buy me some medicine! In fact, once I was driving around in the middle of the night looking for a 24-hr pharmacy because my parents needed a special medication to take with them on a trip, but my brothers were excused because they wanted to go home and rest and put their children to bed.
I feel that muslim women are often left in the dark. We cannot force anyone to help us. The emphasis always seems to be on the rights of the men.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe for a minute that Allah intended it this way. That is why I said that the phrase "actions speak larger than words" is very pertinent to this dialogue. Yes, I know I won't be sold into slavery, but the way islam has been interpreted and practiced means that women lead very very hard lives, we are forced to work in order to support ourselves and our parents and to ensure that we do not become destitute in the future. If someone harrasses us, or is unkind or mean to us, then there is no one to protect us unless we have a husband who is looking out for our itnerests - but generally I find that for those muslim parents who moved to the West and had daughters in the West, the opportunities for marraige are almost zero. So the parents and brothers continue to subscribe to the tenets of Islam as it pertains to their own circumstances, but when it comes to a girl's security it then goes out the window.
I see this happening in other parts of the world too. Again, actions speak larger than words. Where are all the muslims helping the war widows in Iraq, as was the case in the Prophet's time? That is just one example. Why is the maternal death rate so high in Afghanistan - the highest in the world -- when motherhood is a virtue in Islam? there are so many doctors in the muslim world who can offer their services to alleviate the situation?
If we are going to make strong pronouncements about how Islam liberates women, then we must show clearcut examples about how this working. Because it does not seem to be working. And, pointing the finger at western women is irrelevant. I live in the west and most of my non-muslim colleagues, neighbours, friends, and former classmates are married, live modestly, have children, are well-supported by their husbands, take care of their parents, etc. Very very few lead the lives that are referred to in the article. In fact, they have often reached out to me on such issues as marriage, being cared for, etc, whereas the muslims I interact with (including my own family) rarely do so. In fact, the interests of muslim women do not form the subject of the concerns of the Muslim community.
But I think the answer to the debate about the liberation of women is the truism, "actions speak louder than words". We know what the Quran says and what the Holy Prophet SAW said. The issue has to be practical not theoretical.
I myself have often wondered what choices Islam has given me. And I am not talking about FAITH. My faith in Allah, the Quran, the day of Judgment, salaat, etc is intact. I am talking about the pratical realities of living. And, in my experience, Islam as it is practiced gives very little options to women. This is worldwide. Until Muslims change (note, i said "muslims", not Islam), this will always be the case.
As a muslim women, my options have been limited in terms of getting married and having children. I have stood by and watched countless muslim parents strive to ensure that their sons get married to pretty young slim things, and celebrate when their sons have girlfriends who then abracadabra "convert" to Islam and they happilly get married and have children.
As such, I am forced to work long hours. I worry constantly about my financial circumstances and fear that I may have to keep working until I am an older lady. I have to care for elderly parents, and be subject to their moods and demands in regards to food, whereas the sons do not have such obligations because they are busy with their own wives and children. And by "busy" I mean taking them on holidays, taking them to their extra-curricular activities, renovating their homes for their wives, etc.
I know that when my parents are deceased, most (2/3) of their money and home will go to my brothers, who will bby then be retired and will have nice pensions of their own. That leaves me in a very difficult predicametn.
You can't imagien what it is like to attend gas stations, autobody shops, etc where the majority of the people there are men. Yes, even in the west - the men take charge of these tasks, while the western women are able to stay home or do other things with their children.
As a muslim woman, I wonder who will take care of me when I get sick or get old, or even disabled. I find that in western countries, brothers and sisters, parents, all help each other, whereas in muslim families the lines are very very strictly drawn -- i am the daughter, unmarried, so I have to help my parents, whereas they do not have any obligation toward helping me unless it is from the goodness of their own heart. But when they are sick and cranky, they are not going to offer to go to the pharmacy to buy me some medicine! In fact, once I was driving around in the middle of the night looking for a 24-hr pharmacy because my parents needed a special medication to take with them on a trip, but my brothers were excused because they wanted to go home and rest and put their children to bed.
I feel that muslim women are often left in the dark. We cannot force anyone to help us. The emphasis always seems to be on the rights of the men.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe for a minute that Allah intended it this way. That is why I said that the phrase "actions speak larger than words" is very pertinent to this dialogue. Yes, I know I won't be sold into slavery, but the way islam has been interpreted and practiced means that women lead very very hard lives, we are forced to work in order to support ourselves and our parents and to ensure that we do not become destitute in the future. If someone harrasses us, or is unkind or mean to us, then there is no one to protect us unless we have a husband who is looking out for our itnerests - but generally I find that for those muslim parents who moved to the West and had daughters in the West, the opportunities for marraige are almost zero. So the parents and brothers continue to subscribe to the tenets of Islam as it pertains to their own circumstances, but when it comes to a girl's security it then goes out the window.
I see this happening in other parts of the world too. Again, actions speak larger than words. Where are all the muslims helping the war widows in Iraq, as was the case in the Prophet's time? That is just one example. Why is the maternal death rate so high in Afghanistan - the highest in the world -- when motherhood is a virtue in Islam? there are so many doctors in the muslim world who can offer their services to alleviate the situation?
If we are going to make strong pronouncements about how Islam liberates women, then we must show clearcut examples about how this working. Because it does not seem to be working. And, pointing the finger at western women is irrelevant. I live in the west and most of my non-muslim colleagues, neighbours, friends, and former classmates are married, live modestly, have children, are well-supported by their husbands, take care of their parents, etc. Very very few lead the lives that are referred to in the article. In fact, they have often reached out to me on such issues as marriage, being cared for, etc, whereas the muslims I interact with (including my own family) rarely do so. In fact, the interests of muslim women do not form the subject of the concerns of the Muslim community.
Hajjerr
He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Salam aleikum sister
I know your situation and i understand it very well, but as far as i know, men in your family have the obligation to sustain and protect you, if they fail to do this, is their personal fault.
I know many women non muslims are nice and kind, but we speek here about Allah, if Allah is missing from their lifes, here ends my praise for them. You say they have housbands, kids, remember what Quran say:'' Know well that the worldly life is hut a play and an amusement, and a show of beauty, and exchange of boastful claims between you, and a competition of increase in riches and children. (All this is) like a rain, the vegetation of which attracts the farmers, then it withers, and you see it turning yellow, then it becomes straw.''
You are emotional, why you say i dont know how it is the need to attend places where mostly are men ? You dont know my situation, i worked for 6 years since i was 19 years old to sustain my self and i studied in paralel, we all have a burden in our life.
In western countrys familys help each other while in muslims ones dont ? Is a very big generalisation, there are good and less good people everywhere.
Yes, in working fields there are not so many options, for example in Germany if you weare hijab you can not teach, very wrong, but it is humans that invented this restrictions, not islam, ofcourse.
The article compares in this way because is they, the ''West'' as you say, who keep say muslim women are oppressed. I live in Europe, i am most aware of this.
I am sorry if this caused you any discomfort, was not my intention.
Ofcourse i would change the all world if i could, but how ? Let us first make difference between wrong and right, and not defend what Allah dislikes.
:salam2:
I know your situation and i understand it very well, but as far as i know, men in your family have the obligation to sustain and protect you, if they fail to do this, is their personal fault.
I know many women non muslims are nice and kind, but we speek here about Allah, if Allah is missing from their lifes, here ends my praise for them. You say they have housbands, kids, remember what Quran say:'' Know well that the worldly life is hut a play and an amusement, and a show of beauty, and exchange of boastful claims between you, and a competition of increase in riches and children. (All this is) like a rain, the vegetation of which attracts the farmers, then it withers, and you see it turning yellow, then it becomes straw.''
You are emotional, why you say i dont know how it is the need to attend places where mostly are men ? You dont know my situation, i worked for 6 years since i was 19 years old to sustain my self and i studied in paralel, we all have a burden in our life.
In western countrys familys help each other while in muslims ones dont ? Is a very big generalisation, there are good and less good people everywhere.
Yes, in working fields there are not so many options, for example in Germany if you weare hijab you can not teach, very wrong, but it is humans that invented this restrictions, not islam, ofcourse.
The article compares in this way because is they, the ''West'' as you say, who keep say muslim women are oppressed. I live in Europe, i am most aware of this.
I am sorry if this caused you any discomfort, was not my intention.
Ofcourse i would change the all world if i could, but how ? Let us first make difference between wrong and right, and not defend what Allah dislikes.
:salam2:
uniqueskates
Rabbe Zidni Illma
AssalaamuAlaikum sister,
Very true.. I completely agree with you that actions speak louder than words.. A little about me, i am officially not a Muslim but am fighting to be one.. Probs at home you see.. A lil to tell, i whole heartedly believe that Muslims need to follow Islam to actually show what Islam is, to show the beauty of it.. If in the world we where to judge a religion on the basis on ppl belonging to it.. I think i would have preferred being an atheist, because every other person wants to cut the next person's neck.. Not just the muslims, even hindus, christians, jews, everybody do violence.. But you know what attracted me the most, it was "Islam", if i had gone on seeing the ppl, i.e. the muslims - am damn sure i would ve been totally against it.!!
To the max what we can do is tell them that its not the way, its upto them to listen to you sister, and also pray to Allah(SWT) that he makes everybody close to the Quran, close to the deen. Ameen.! We cant force them to follow, because no matter how much you tell them, its Allah(SWT) who guides if HE wills.
Peace
Allah Hafiz
Precious Star
Junior Member
Hajerr,
I don't think you understood my comments at all. I made a distinction between what Allah has ordained, and how muslims behave. We can make all sorts of generalizations, including generalizations about Western women, generalizations about eastern women, generalizations about Christian women, etc. At the end of the day, each of us speaks about our own experiences and observations. And what I have written above is based on my own experience and observations -- not your's. Please respect that. There are many, many muslim women who feel the same way that I do and feel that they have been left to fend for themselves. The overwhelming experience of women who are not married in islam is that they are left to fend for themselves without any support. Again, this might not be your experience.
Furthermore, it is important to be vocal about where the deficiencies in the muslim communities lie. It is not enough to say loudly that music is haraam. Muslims are failing in many other critical areas that go to the heart of what it is to live a bountiful and supported life. Allah SWT has ensured that women have a protector; Allah's way is the loving way -- Allah SWT has never, in Quran or through his Holy Prophet, indicated to the ummah that muslim women should be isolated -- rather, they should be protected, supported, and treated with gentlenes and kindness.
My own viewpoint is that it is haraam to immigrate to a nonmuslim country and then raise children there. But, what is done is done.
Hajjerr
He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Salam aleikum sister
I said i understand you.
But you sound very bitter and you gaved me the impression that you see the grass looking greener at the non-muslims side. I spoked also about my point of view because i was there and is not greener, you just dont see it from close.
Yes, is more important to act then to speek, but this does not make the article i quoted any less true.
If you think we can do more, i am here to help in everything we can do, inshallah.
The more i know muslims, the more i see we fail in doing right, yet we have to stand up for Islam, not praise those that Allah dislikes, i repeat myself and i am sorry if i seemed i dont respect your views.
:salam2:
I said i understand you.
But you sound very bitter and you gaved me the impression that you see the grass looking greener at the non-muslims side. I spoked also about my point of view because i was there and is not greener, you just dont see it from close.
You too compared with West, just in the reverse of the article.
Yes, is more important to act then to speek, but this does not make the article i quoted any less true.
If you think we can do more, i am here to help in everything we can do, inshallah.
The more i know muslims, the more i see we fail in doing right, yet we have to stand up for Islam, not praise those that Allah dislikes, i repeat myself and i am sorry if i seemed i dont respect your views.
:salam2:
:salam2:
I personally feel that there is a rather big gap between what Allah (swt) has ordained in the treatment of women and the reality of what is really happening. Many countries have confused culture with Islam and thus do treat the women there like crap. They do not give them the rights they should and were given by Allah (swt), confuse honor killings which are murder as Islamic ect. In some ways as a Western woman AND a Muslim I feel I have it better then say a woman in Pakistan or Saudi. Then again I have no issue with women competing in the Olympics that has that started a fire storm in another thread. When people are taught what Islam really is and stops using culture as a barrier to women then women will truely have their rights that have been given to them by Allah. Sadly many born Muslims do not know the differance between culture and Islam and confuse them.
I personally feel that there is a rather big gap between what Allah (swt) has ordained in the treatment of women and the reality of what is really happening. Many countries have confused culture with Islam and thus do treat the women there like crap. They do not give them the rights they should and were given by Allah (swt), confuse honor killings which are murder as Islamic ect. In some ways as a Western woman AND a Muslim I feel I have it better then say a woman in Pakistan or Saudi. Then again I have no issue with women competing in the Olympics that has that started a fire storm in another thread. When people are taught what Islam really is and stops using culture as a barrier to women then women will truely have their rights that have been given to them by Allah. Sadly many born Muslims do not know the differance between culture and Islam and confuse them.
:salam2:
One insteance of culture trumping Islam is when I went to visit my husband when he was getting sober and I wanted to pray at the mosque in my hometown. I was not allowed to and was told they don't allow women in the mosque as it's "UnIslamic" to have unpure women at the masjid. I was blown away by that.
One insteance of culture trumping Islam is when I went to visit my husband when he was getting sober and I wanted to pray at the mosque in my hometown. I was not allowed to and was told they don't allow women in the mosque as it's "UnIslamic" to have unpure women at the masjid. I was blown away by that.
Precious Star
Junior Member
What?! How did "they" determine your impurity?
I was a woman I guess. I was so shocked at their attitude. They mosque is mostly made up of Yemeni immigrants so I am guessing its a cultural thing for them.
Precious Star
Junior Member
This is exactly how the message of Islam gets distorted. Islam does not have a nationality or a culture. Yet, Muslims insist on putting their own cultural spin on things.
I was just having a discussion with my mother about this thread. I had a bad episode at work where a male older colleague is taking advantage of me. I feel trapped, like I have no choice but to put up with it because I need a job. So I told her about my comments on this thread. She was saddened and truthfully could not answer me when I asked her what options does Islam give me. She is of the generation that does not engage in philosophical inquiries so I think what I said caused her to reflect yet elicited no answer. In fact she was almost apologetic. It is possible that Allah intends for muslim women to lead difficult lives....that may just be how He has structured humanity, to give ease to men yet challenges and obstacles for women. I have noticed this amongst somali women too. There are many Somali refugees in my city and the extent of hardships and suffering the women go through....
In the next life, there will be ease.
strive-may-i
Junior Member
Honestly, Not surprised. Not because what you say is true, but because this opinion is the current general trend (fad!) and is the result of 'assumed' opinion.
strive-may-i
Junior Member
Assalaamu Alaikum,
[Just being aloud, am not implying you said it.]
I feel, Its just that we have not had the chance to see or meet or spot a medium that lets as peep into the inquiries in past generations. So to assume, the lack of techonological tools of today, being the reason for this unavailability or lack of access to such inquirers in past is a big mistake again too. For example, this topic has been discussed in this TTI forum in past, its recorded, its documented, but still its lost. Even if it were available, it would still need more to assimilate from it and employ it. Many swear, they have learnt better from very old people. yes, we can call that lucky, but what if these lucky ones did not have parents and had to rely on their grand parents!
A statistical research in 'some of the so called most liberated societies' was conducted: Women seemed not satisfied with the so called liberated status for some reason. Am not being critical, but something fundamentally incorrect in the approach, was being hinted by the researchers. (I dont have the link now, two years old maybe). The answer is not sameness of gender, this was very evident. One more fact was evident, society is assuming about a non existent mode and are assuming it would liberate. Its the same kind of assumption in atheism too. There must have been societies in past, though not in materialistic plane as today, which have tried these modes of liberation and abandoned it, or perished trying to adopt it. The cause of the end , might be that they overdid it and lost in other aspects needed for sustaining!
"Even before your time, certain laws and norms were inforce, so travel and examine the historical traces left by past peoples, to see what was the fate of those who denied the truths of revelation and the promises of God." [ Qur'an 3:137]
(A Bit out of context, but definitely gives a hint of how/why societies see change)
"How many were those powerful ones whom We destroyed in their cities on account of their oppression and wrongdoing, and We made another people to be their heirs." [ Qur'an 21:11]
There is no point in blaming the creator, is it not?
This is a line of though I fear. During School, I could not appreciate when stone age was seen as inferior. Lack of material excess, makes them inferior? So are the poor inferior... What scale makes wealthy superior?
[Just being aloud, am not implying you said it.]
I feel, Its just that we have not had the chance to see or meet or spot a medium that lets as peep into the inquiries in past generations. So to assume, the lack of techonological tools of today, being the reason for this unavailability or lack of access to such inquirers in past is a big mistake again too. For example, this topic has been discussed in this TTI forum in past, its recorded, its documented, but still its lost. Even if it were available, it would still need more to assimilate from it and employ it. Many swear, they have learnt better from very old people. yes, we can call that lucky, but what if these lucky ones did not have parents and had to rely on their grand parents!
A statistical research in 'some of the so called most liberated societies' was conducted: Women seemed not satisfied with the so called liberated status for some reason. Am not being critical, but something fundamentally incorrect in the approach, was being hinted by the researchers. (I dont have the link now, two years old maybe). The answer is not sameness of gender, this was very evident. One more fact was evident, society is assuming about a non existent mode and are assuming it would liberate. Its the same kind of assumption in atheism too. There must have been societies in past, though not in materialistic plane as today, which have tried these modes of liberation and abandoned it, or perished trying to adopt it. The cause of the end , might be that they overdid it and lost in other aspects needed for sustaining!
"Even before your time, certain laws and norms were inforce, so travel and examine the historical traces left by past peoples, to see what was the fate of those who denied the truths of revelation and the promises of God." [ Qur'an 3:137]
(A Bit out of context, but definitely gives a hint of how/why societies see change)
"How many were those powerful ones whom We destroyed in their cities on account of their oppression and wrongdoing, and We made another people to be their heirs." [ Qur'an 21:11]
There is no point in blaming the creator, is it not?
a_stranger
Junior Member
Assalamu alaikim dear sister
I think what are you going through is the result of selfishness of your family. I know a muslem widow living with her parents , she is a doctor she works and take care of her parents but all her brothers and sisters are sharing responsibility with her , it is unfair that your brothers leave you alone you should call them when you are in need, I think it is time for you to look for a good husband and in the same time continue to take care of your parents...........it is not too late. good luck sister.
I think what are you going through is the result of selfishness of your family. I know a muslem widow living with her parents , she is a doctor she works and take care of her parents but all her brothers and sisters are sharing responsibility with her , it is unfair that your brothers leave you alone you should call them when you are in need, I think it is time for you to look for a good husband and in the same time continue to take care of your parents...........it is not too late. good luck sister.
a_stranger
Junior Member
The sufferings Of women starts when men are not doing their job in life as good muslems
Tabassum07
Smile for Allah
:salam2:
I agree with this. Allah did not intend hardship for women and ease for men - quite the contrary. Allah put men as "maintainers and protectors" of women. The women are just supposed to look after the house - whether married or unmarried, and their male mahrams are supposed to take care of the women. But in the cases where the females are getting the short end of the stick, its because their males have been irresponsible and shirk the duty which Allah gave them - and they *will* be called to account for their misdeeds. Sister Precious Star, I know your story, and we grieve for what you have to face day after day - but Allah will reward you for every oppression you have been put through, if you continue to be patient like you have been. I think sis, you need to start demanding from your brothers - tell them how you feel. Tell them what Islam has prescribed for you, because clearly they're in the wrong here. And Allah has said "Don't oppress and don't be oppressed." You need to fight for your own rights, and your brothers need to start looking after their parents and sister as well. How long will keeping quiet do good? And what good is it doing to anybody?
Technically, Allah intended so much ease for women. As long as a girl is unmarried, she doesn't need to work or look after herself and its her mahrams responsibility. And after she's married, she doesn't need to work or look after herself and its her husband's responsibiiity. Islam was made easy, but when the muslims aren't doing what they're suposed to be doing, someone is bound to suffer because of it. Enough of this sister - speak up - demand your rights from your brothers.
sister herb
Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum;
I came islam as I found it is liberation to women.
17 years ago.
:muslim_child:
I came islam as I found it is liberation to women.
17 years ago.
:muslim_child: