women priests

:salam2: what do you think of this?????
Islam's pioneering women priests
By Richard Hamilton
BBC News, Rabat, Morocco

A radical new innovation in the Islamic world has arisen in Morocco - women priests. The Mourchidat, as they are known, are the first women ever in any Muslim country that can perform the functions of a male Imam in a mosque, except lead the prayers.

Fifty Mourchidat have graduated and have now begun their ministries.

However, not everyone agrees with the new appointments.

The Mourchidat will be allowed to lead religious discussions and give advice in their communities - particularly to women.

The only thing they will not be able to do is to lead prayers. That role will still be reserved for male Imams.

In the courtyard of Rabat's biggest mosque - the Sunna mosque - I spoke to Khadija al-Aktami. She is one of the newly qualified Mourchidat.

I asked her why she thought women would be well suited to this new role: "Women make good priests because God has made them more sensitive, merciful and more patient than men!

Khadija al-Aktami: God has made women more patient than men
A radical new innovation in the Islamic world has arisen in Morocco - women priests. The Mourchidat, as they are known, are the first women ever in any Muslim country that can perform the functions of a male Imam in a mosque, except lead the prayers.

Fifty Mourchidat have graduated and have now begun their ministries.

However, not everyone agrees with the new appointments.

The Mourchidat will be allowed to lead religious discussions and give advice in their communities - particularly to women.

The only thing they will not be able to do is to lead prayers. That role will still be reserved for male Imams.

In the courtyard of Rabat's biggest mosque - the Sunna mosque - I spoke to Khadija al-Aktami. She is one of the newly qualified Mourchidat.

I asked her why she thought women would be well suited to this new role: "Women make good priests because God has made them more sensitive, merciful and more patient than men!

A woman is a mother, a wife, a daughter and a friend, so she will perform well in this role. Besides, no one can understand a woman as well as another woman."

Terrorism is the extreme example of a serious illness in society... There is an obligation to do this as a means of prevention

Ahmed Toufiq, Minister of Islamic Affairs

May 16 2003, like September 11, is a date etched in people's minds and synonymous with terror in Morocco.

Forty-one people died in a series of suicide bombings by Islamic fundamentalists in Casablanca. It was partly in response to the Casablanca attacks that the Moroccan government introduced women priests - to promote a more liberal brand of Islam and to counter radicalism.

The Minister of Islamic Affairs, Ahmed Toufiq says the Mourchidat programme was necessary to maintain a healthy society as a preventative measure against terrorism.

"Society is like a human body and the body needs to be looked after: it needs to be fed and its health has to be preserved," he said.

"Terrorism is the extreme example of a serious illness in society. You cannot leave a body until it gets into a crisis. You have to feed the body to avoid it falling into a state of crisis and disease. There are all sorts of measures you can take to prevent a crisis and this is one of them. There is an obligation to do this as a means of prevention."

Control strategy?

Abdelwahed Motawakil, is the Secretary-General of the outlawed Islamist movement, Justice and Charity. His office is constantly being watched by the secret police.

'Justice and Charity' is highly critical of the establishment and is calling for the Moroccan monarchy to be abolished. It also believes that the new women priests are just instruments of government propaganda.


Moroccan women are taking an increasingly active role in public life


"If you take the idea in the abstract, I must say that it's an excellent idea, because it gives an opportunity for women to participate in an area that has been monopolised by men," he said.

"But if you look a little deeper and analyse the motives, you will find out that it is part of a strategy adopted by the regime to control the religious field and not to leave that field open for their opponents - the Islamists. So they want to control that area and convey their official view of Islam."

Khadija al-Aktami is just starting on her new career as a Mourchidat but some of her colleagues will not be joining her.

They have been discovered to be supporters of Justice and Charity - something that will be viewed as a major embarrassment for the Moroccan government as it tries to combat Islamic extremism.
 

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
AssalaamuAlaikum,

These are the fruits of the massive hypocritic campaigns of the western media and the distance of Muslims from Quran and sunnah.

These Muslims dont even know a single bit about Islam but they become 'selfmade Muftis' and 'selfmade prophets'.

There will be more fitnahs to come as the Judgement day is coming near. May Allay save us from hell.


Wasssalaam,
Ve
 

loveislam1

Junior Member
Asalam Alikoum
I read about this last year. They will basically be teaching Islam to women in the community, if you know about Morocco many of the older community about 70%-80% are illeterate. The have learned islam by word of mouth and passing it down generation to generation.... and this is a great way to remove all the cultural islam in the country due to illetarcy inshallah

They will not give khoutbah nor lead the prayer.....
I think the word "priest" is misleading, I am not sure what thier exact name in english should be....but from the sound of the description for what they will be doing there is nothing wrong with it in fact it is benificial. Allahu alym because I havent witnessed them myself yet. IS there something wrong with a woman who gives religious advice according to Quran and Sunnah to other women?
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Radical new innovation???

Asslamo Allaikum,

I read about this but wasn't sure? We have never had "Murshidaat" in Islam...Sufees have Murshids (Shaykh's, Mentors, Peers) who take on students and advice them on Spirituality & stuff but we have NEVER had a female version in Sufi'ism!...

Whether the above (male version) is good or bad is a controversial issue, discussed many times on TTI!

Funny thing that the article actually says, "...radical new innovation..."

I am NOT sure when innovation became a good thing in Islam!

Hadith - Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 49, Number 861. Narrated Aisha, r.a.

Allah's Apostle SAAWS said, "If somebody innovates something which is not in harmony with the principles of our religion, that thing is rejected."


I think they could have easily had "Women Councillors" looking at the work that these women would be doing instead of using words like Murshidaat & Imam & so on...

Why NOT avoid the controversial?
Why stir things up?

:salam2: what do you think of this?????
Islam's pioneering women priests
By Richard Hamilton
BBC News, Rabat, Morocco

A radical new innovation in the Islamic world has arisen in Morocco - women priests. The Mourchidat, as they are known, are the first women ever in any Muslim country that can perform the functions of a male Imam in a mosque, except lead the prayers.

Fifty Mourchidat have graduated and have now begun their ministries.

However, not everyone agrees with the new appointments.

The Mourchidat will be allowed to lead religious discussions and give advice in their communities - particularly to women.

The only thing they will not be able to do is to lead prayers. That role will still be reserved for male Imams.

In the courtyard of Rabat's biggest mosque - the Sunna mosque - I spoke to Khadija al-Aktami. She is one of the newly qualified Mourchidat.

I asked her why she thought women would be well suited to this new role: "Women make good priests because God has made them more sensitive, merciful and more patient than men!

Khadija al-Aktami: God has made women more patient than men
A radical new innovation in the Islamic world has arisen in Morocco - women priests. The Mourchidat, as they are known, are the first women ever in any Muslim country that can perform the functions of a male Imam in a mosque, except lead the prayers.

Fifty Mourchidat have graduated and have now begun their ministries.

However, not everyone agrees with the new appointments.

The Mourchidat will be allowed to lead religious discussions and give advice in their communities - particularly to women.

The only thing they will not be able to do is to lead prayers. That role will still be reserved for male Imams.

In the courtyard of Rabat's biggest mosque - the Sunna mosque - I spoke to Khadija al-Aktami. She is one of the newly qualified Mourchidat.

I asked her why she thought women would be well suited to this new role: "Women make good priests because God has made them more sensitive, merciful and more patient than men!

A woman is a mother, a wife, a daughter and a friend, so she will perform well in this role. Besides, no one can understand a woman as well as another woman."

Terrorism is the extreme example of a serious illness in society... There is an obligation to do this as a means of prevention

Ahmed Toufiq, Minister of Islamic Affairs

May 16 2003, like September 11, is a date etched in people's minds and synonymous with terror in Morocco.

Forty-one people died in a series of suicide bombings by Islamic fundamentalists in Casablanca. It was partly in response to the Casablanca attacks that the Moroccan government introduced women priests - to promote a more liberal brand of Islam and to counter radicalism.

The Minister of Islamic Affairs, Ahmed Toufiq says the Mourchidat programme was necessary to maintain a healthy society as a preventative measure against terrorism.

"Society is like a human body and the body needs to be looked after: it needs to be fed and its health has to be preserved," he said.

"Terrorism is the extreme example of a serious illness in society. You cannot leave a body until it gets into a crisis. You have to feed the body to avoid it falling into a state of crisis and disease. There are all sorts of measures you can take to prevent a crisis and this is one of them. There is an obligation to do this as a means of prevention."

Control strategy?

Abdelwahed Motawakil, is the Secretary-General of the outlawed Islamist movement, Justice and Charity. His office is constantly being watched by the secret police.

'Justice and Charity' is highly critical of the establishment and is calling for the Moroccan monarchy to be abolished. It also believes that the new women priests are just instruments of government propaganda.


Moroccan women are taking an increasingly active role in public life


"If you take the idea in the abstract, I must say that it's an excellent idea, because it gives an opportunity for women to participate in an area that has been monopolised by men," he said.

"But if you look a little deeper and analyse the motives, you will find out that it is part of a strategy adopted by the regime to control the religious field and not to leave that field open for their opponents - the Islamists. So they want to control that area and convey their official view of Islam."

Khadija al-Aktami is just starting on her new career as a Mourchidat but some of her colleagues will not be joining her.

They have been discovered to be supporters of Justice and Charity - something that will be viewed as a major embarrassment for the Moroccan government as it tries to combat Islamic extremism.
 

Ali_Ibrahim

New Member
im not putting females on a pedastle, but for the sake of allah and preserving this deen, if it takes females to talk to the community then so be it. Im sure allah will love them for preaching the word of islam. I agree to the rule of these females not leading salah, but i think they are allowed to lead other females aren't they?? im not really sure...but anyways, as far as this whole idea, im ok with it
 

Doris

Junior Member
Bismilah,

Brothers and Sisters be very careful when you talk about this Deen. The wifes of the Prophet sallahu alayhee ua salam were up there with knowledge and piety and they never became any type of "Imaam" or any other abnormality and Bid'ah. These women and their likes are from within feminists who spent their days reading the books of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji. ua na yaadhu bilah. Again, don't become like those who just see, but don't listen. Read the Qur'an and the Sunnah and understand them according to the scholars of this Ummah the likes of Ibn Taymiyah, Imam Ahmad ibn Hambel, Imam Shafi'i etc. Imagine if they were to hear these abnormal stories what would they had done to stop it!!!
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Men and Women Equal???How???

Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

With the utmost respect, men & women are NOT equal....Please note that I am not saying that women are inferior or stupid; I am saying that we (men & women) are "different"...

I am not a bigoted person; but its a scientific fact. We are different physically, emotionally, psychologically & socially.

The feminist movement of the 1960's failed and caused more problems for women then it solved because it tried to instill that men & women are equal which is wrong.

No religious scripture or scienctific study has ever called Men & Women equal. Qur'aan talks about equal rights, equal responsibilities and equal reward (orpunishment) but not that men and women are equal.

I hope that you will understand what I am trying to so & my views will not be misunderstood into thinking otherwise.

P.S: I whole-heartedly agree with the idea of Women councillers; I just don't think that they should be labelled as Murshidaat, Imams etc; as this was NOT done in Islam.

There is no problems in women teaching men as it happens to this day in many parts of the Islamic world. Ayesha (RA) was far more knowledgable then many men Sahaba (RA) of her time.

P.P.S: I hope that I have not upset you in anyway and it is not my intention.

:tti_sister:

We are =
so I dont see a problem.
 

loveislam1

Junior Member
Asalam Alikoum wa rahamtallah brothers and sisters

I agree, Islam is not about equlaity it is about Justice

These women and their likes are from within feminists who spent their days reading the books of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji.

I am shocked to see the comparison between this vial lady and these women in Morocco who are ladies who studied religion and give religious advice to women, trying to better the community WITH Quran and Sunnah. How are these women of "the likes" of that vial woman? DO you have evidence of thier leading men in prayer or talking about lesbianis being ok like that vial woman? Be careful brother and sisters without having any evidence that we lump everyone together.

Mourchidat does not mean "imama" they are relgiious advisors, have studied religion and give religious advice based on Quran and Sunnah giving advice to women about issues pertaining to women.

I guess the only real debatable issue is whether or not these ladies are able to give lectures to mixed audience. If anyone knows anything about Morocco it is very unlikley that men would attend a lecture or listen to advice given by a woman, it is culturally unheard of.

Are women able to be religious advisors ? I think Aisha and Khadijah radi allah anhouma did just that.

Anything I have said good is from ALLAh subhana wa ta'ala anything bad is from me and my own nafs.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Ahmm!

Asslamo Allaikum,

Ahmm! Ahmm!

Asalam Alikoum wa rahamtallah brothers and sisters

I agree, Islam is not about equlaity it is about Justice

These women and their likes are from within feminists who spent their days reading the books of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji.

I am shocked to see the comparison between this vial lady and these women in Morocco who are ladies who studied religion and give religious advice to women, trying to better the community WITH Quran and Sunnah. How are these women of "the likes" of that vial woman? DO you have evidence of thier leading men in prayer or talking about lesbianis being ok like that vial woman? Be careful brother and sisters without having any evidence that we lump everyone together.

Mourchidat does not mean "imama" they are relgiious advisors, have studied religion and give religious advice based on Quran and Sunnah giving advice to women about issues pertaining to women.

I guess the only real debatable issue is whether or not these ladies are able to give lectures to mixed audience. If anyone knows anything about Morocco it is very unlikley that men would attend a lecture or listen to advice given by a woman, it is culturally unheard of.

Are women able to be religious advisors ? I think Aisha and Khadijah radi allah anhouma did just that.

Anything I have said good is from ALLAh subhana wa ta'ala anything bad is from me and my own nafs.
 

Doris

Junior Member
Bismilah, Alaikomu salam ua rahmatullah

Dear loveislam1! My words : "These women and their likes are from within feminists who spent their days reading the books of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji."


Meaning who?... of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji."

I do not mean the Muslim ladies, I am saying regarding the kufar feminists that are..."Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji." that our sisters have been taking example from.

But, the fact a lot from the Muslim women are influnced deeply from feminism it is reality that leads into destruction if the above have no niyah to change.
 

Love my islam

Junior Member
:salam2:
Dear brother Glabal peace no one should be offended or upset by your statement.
men & women are NOT equal
We are NOT equal, we have different rights and duties. If we follow them we will not feel inferior. Women in west started this struggle for equality not realising how much bigger trouble they are creating for themselves. Now some women in muslim countries are joining this. If only they follow islamic teachings they will be happy. I look at some homes which follow this system they are happy families. Men provide and care. Mothers are home providing islamic enviorment. Those women rule their families and they are happy.
As for these women they are doing nothing wrong. The title is wrong. They are more like councillers and when a muslim woman needs a advise she will feel comfortable with having a waman advisor.
There is no problems in women teaching men as it happens to this day in many parts of the Islamic world. Ayesha (RA) was far more knowledgable then many men Sahaba (RA) of her time.
There you go its not a new concept why is everyone shocked.
 

Izzu

Junior Member
:salam2: There is no problem in having women islamic scholars around. Actually it is highly desirable that there are sisters who have deep knowledge and understanding of deen. We need these sisters as they play a critical role in shaping the society. As mentioned by bro Global peace Ayesha (ra) was one of the finest and high level islamic scholar. Rabia basri was another scholar long after prophet (pbuh).
However, even though we are equal in the eyes of Allah (sw) we have different roles and responsibilities that make us unique.
I just hope that these sisters stay within the circles of Islam. Longtime ago I remember looking at a book from Amina Wadud about understanding Quran from a womens perspective. In fact I gave it as a gift to a non-muslim friend. Unfortunately last year I read that she led a prayer in a US mosque. (Allah knows the truth). As we all agree a women cannot lead a congregation. Thus even though we need women scholars, they have to abide by the divine code and sunnah of our beloved prophet (pbuh).
Wassalam.
 

Najmoen

Junior Member
Reverence the wombs that bore you!

:salam2:

Brother and sisters lets not loose sight of the fact that these sister's intentions were to better themselves and work, fee sabeel lillah (In the path of Allah). If these women are guided by Qur'an and the Sunna, then it is obligatory for us as men to give them our every support.The "Mushidaat" "female priests" "religious advisors" call them by any other name, they are our sisters and our mothers. Qur'an says reverence the wombs that bore you. The concept of Musheedat is a good thing, especially in a society of moral decline where women's sexuality are constantly being objectified.

Women are supposed to be Islamicaly educated when raising children, an Islamicaly educated mother gives rise to an Islamicaly educated family and if more mothers are Islamicaly educated it will give rise to an Islamicaly educated society / nation (ummah). Our first teachers were our mothers, who recited Qur'an to us in our cradles, who taught us to make namaaz as children, who taught us to recite Qur'an and to make du'ah. They taught us Allah consciousness. They were our first encounter with Islam.

Look at how many authentic ahadith has been narrated by the Prophet's daughter Fatima (RA) and the how Aisha and Khadijah (RA) taught and lectured to other women. Even the saghaaba learnt from them, and we men have much to learn from the ahadith narrated by the prophet's wifes and daughters. I need to add, that men have been given a status above that of women in Qur'an, but it is to be used to protect women not press them down, to help and assist them and guide them in knowledge. As Islamicaly educated women knowledgeable about Qur'an and obedient to its tenets they would not overstep its commands. Perhaps if this was instituted internationally the calibre of Muslims may certainly improve, Insha-Alllah.
 

hafz

Junior Member
The Prophets wives and daughters were unique and the best of women.Ofcourse they had to teach because this was the special jobs Allah s.w.t had for them.They were in a unique position to relay to the ummah the rather delicate matters concerning women etc because of there proximity to our beloved Prophet s.a.w. There have been many great women scholars but they were not like you and I.
I don't know what the intention is of the people behind this concept but I can surely believe it will let loose a lot of fitnah's. In this day of fitnah, women are being used to head the way to create fitnah.
Remember shaitaan misleads you step by step. Women are increasingly being given positions of power as they are easily misled.If the concern is for deen they could have done this another way by using imams, setting up madrassahs and setting up islamic classes for women who could learn from real scholars.
What will these women teach and what type of islam will be taught?
Who is choosing the curriculum?
Who is behind this scheme?
They are calling themselves imams so in the near future be prepared to hear that they are also leading the prayer!
 

One_Umma

New Member
Bismilah, Alaikomu salam ua rahmatullah

Dear loveislam1! My words : "These women and their likes are from within feminists who spent their days reading the books of other misleading-feminists Kufar-Atheists cursed lesbians the likes of Irshad Manji."


may Allah give Hadiyah to Irshad Manji and her Co. Why not they talk about sufferings of western women.Its easy to get fame if u say bad things about islam and questions it teach. I request you to teach urs kids about this finta.
 

azhar1973

New Member
becarefull

assalamualaikum
brothers and sisters there is no harm in women being religious councillors etc.
but we should not ignore the facts , which is, the people behind their appointments.. munafikoons(hypocrites) are using the fear of extremist to destroy our deen as kamal ataturk of turkey did. i agree some elements of our society are giving a very bad name and an excuse to enemies of islam by their
activities no matter how good their intention might be. but we should not be unaware of the conspirators. believe me they(munafiks) are more dangerous than bush n blair etc.

assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.
 

Destiny_Jannah

Junior Member
Muslim women are allow to lead prayers only females....

why would they want to lead prayers when males are there?

are these so called Muslims trying to change Islam?
 
assalamualaikum
munafikoons(hypocrites) are using the fear of extremist to destroy our deen as kamal ataturk of turkey did. i agree some elements of our society are giving a very bad name and an excuse to enemies of islam by their
activities no matter how good their intention might be. but we should not be unaware of the conspirators. believe me they(munafiks) are more dangerous than bush n blair etc.
assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.


:salam2:

This is why Allah SWT says :

'Verily, the hyprocrites will be in the lowest depth (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them..'

:subhanallah: this Aya n°145 is in Sourate The Women N°4 (an-Nisa').


Explanation from Tafsir ibn Katir :

(Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire) on the Day of Resurrection due to their tremendous Kufr. al-Walibi `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas said :
(in the lowest depths (grade) of the Fire) means, in the bottom of the Fire. Other scholars said that the Fire has ever lower depths just as Paradise had ever higher grades. Ibn Jarir recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that,
"Inside coffins of Fire that surround them, for they are closed and sealed in them.'' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that when Ibn Mas`ud was asked about the hypocrites, he said, "They will be placed in coffins made of fire and they will be closed in them in the lowest depth of the Fire.''
(no helper will you find for them. ) to save them from their misery and painful torment.

However ;
Allah then states that whoever among the hypocrites repents in this life, Allah will accept his repentance and sorrow, if his repentance were sincere and he then follows it by performing righteous deeds, all the while depending on his Lord.
Allah says:
'Except those who repent, do righteous good deeds, depend on Allah, and purify their religion for Allah, then they will be with the believers. And Allah will grant the believers a great reward.'
Aya n°146 in Sourate The Women N°4 (an-Nisa').

:wasalam:
 

apocalypse77

Junior Member
:astag: al i can say is i do pray Allah will give guidancee to Irshad Manji.

and btw, isit true woman are ONLY allowed to lead prayers amongst women only?
 
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