Working/Professionalism & Hayaa

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,


I firmly believe we have forgotten to give dawah to our brothers and sisters. Our masjids have become lazy. We have to get better. We have two generations who are clueless about their faith. They have no connection to the Muslim community and are unaware of the rules of dress or communication. It does not make them bad people. They are clueless. They have no ties to Islam. Outside of a casual interpretation of hijab there is no identity.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Jazakullah Khairun Sisters, very informative contributions from all of you for those of us who don't hear the other side of the story.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Sister Islamerica,

You are correct. Many of the younger sisters do not know that unspoken boundary. They let the guard down and are shocked. In the past when I have written about this I get attacked by the sisters. They feel that I am being ruthless by blaming them.

Let's be honest. You wear form fitting jeans with a colorful hijab. What is that message? I see girls giggling all over the place.

The number of adult women who do not cover is what needed to be addressed. Big time. And I have noticed it is the sisters from the subcontinent who are the biggest violators.

And Brother Tic-tac-toe,

We need to hear from brothers what they see as the soft area; signals we may send unknowingly.

I have a look about me now, everyone feels obligated to smile and bow their heads...great now I am ancient.

 

[ShahnazZ]

The number of adult women who do not cover is what needed to be addressed. Big time. And I have noticed it is the sisters from the subcontinent who are the biggest violators.

This is absolutely correct. Not only does it seem like they're the biggest violators sometimes, but usually it's the same women that are the most stubborn in disagreeing with you when you try to give them guidance.

In my opinion (and I may get flamed for this too), it's because women from the Subcontinent feel like they have the most to prove. Coming from a patriarchal, male-dominated society, they're basically lashing out against the masculine hierarchy prevalent in that part of the world. However, ignorance comes in when these women tend to group religion with culture and think that it's one big patriarchal jumble.

Sometimes, I feel that Islam is what gives a woman her softness in nature because otherwise from what I've noticed in regards to the women we're discussing, it's all about competing with males for the same rights and this adds a harshness and roughness that usually stems from duking it out and fighting. I don't believe in it because I believe that Islam gives men and women all the rights that they need and that do justice by them. Thus, no need to compete. But when knowledge is lacking, along with a healthy dose of God-consciousness, these women make it their sole mission to have the battle against patriarchy underlie their every action and move. A woman who focuses on being a good Muslim first does not have that burning desire to compete and create a name for herself as opposed to women who have other motives.

Bottom line: The need to prove themselves to their male counterparts and the rest of the world (to the point where they stand out IMO) fuels from a lack of knowledge about Islam and a lack of God-consciousness that further fuels the flames of making it in the dunya (akhirah usually doesn't even make the list).

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

My issue with these sisters is the language barrier. Because I do not speak Urdu or the other languages they automatically assume I do not know my faith. I have had sisters interrupt my prayers out of their ignorance.

I am still trying to figure that one out. I still blame it on many years living embedded in the Hindu caste system. It rubbed off big time. They do not cover.

I do not wish to generalize but it seems as if they reach a certain level of knowledge and it stops. I am at a loss; I see the revert sisters are the ones who make the big strides. They want to learn everything and do it right from the get-go.

Back to topic. I learned this first hand. We are told as Muslims that we are strangers in this world. Part of keeping it safe for me is to constantly remember everything is short term. Keep a soft smile. You want to be demure. Not coy. Speak when spoken to or else lower your gaze. In the Western world one way to shorten a conversation with a man is to say thank-you very much. You have thus ended any prolonged conversations.

When groups want to go out for lunch..this is hard..say no. Often they will end up with drinks. You do not need to go out after work for get-togethers. If you are in sales that is hard. If there is a sister in sales feel free to PM and I will give you tips.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

:salam2:

:Allah: commands us in the Qur'aan to talk straight and to the point and this is the crux of the issue between brothers and sisters because like it or not when you see someone or even get to know them there is a chance that you want to marry them (depending on their availability) and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. So if a brother or sister is interested in someone then let them follow the Sunnah and be clear and precise in their communications.

Be it first wife or the 4th wife, the procedure is the same!

In general and without the possibility of marriage all communication should be straight forward and to the point.

Ambiguous words, flirting and innuendos at workplace leads to misunderstanding and confusion and I see this as a problematic issue in emails, messages, FB and even on forums.

Seclusion or proximity between sexes should also be avoided and there is no need for going to lunches with a Sister or taking her to Friday prayers etc and in my opinion I would avoid the Fitnah even if there is a group. I do work professionally with Muslim Sisters and our conversation is professional and I try my best not to engage in idle chit-chat; I do make mistakes off course but I do try.

Bottom line is wherever there are men and women there is potential for Fitnah.

 

[Aapa]

ASAK,

Correct. We do need to understand the complex nonverbal cues; sometimes that is difficult for youngsters.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

ASAK,

Correct. We do need to understand the complex nonverbal cues; sometimes that is difficult for youngsters.

:salam2:

I have never understood the cryptic symbols of Muslim women.

 

[uniqueskates]

Assalaam walaikum,

But hijab gives you that protection.

Walaikumassalaam,

I would like my sisters to let me know, how important the role of hijab plays? And explain me various things about the same. Sharing of experiences is also welcomed. Especially looking for different view points on benefits of hijab and how it gives freedom to women.

Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh

With men, you make it straight to the point, no beating around the bush, in details, clear in your words and strict. Yes, strict. Meaning that if it concerns about completing a certain task, you give a clear overview on when to submit: day, date, time [yes, as far as mentioning the time like submit before 12am]. If the men are loyal and hardworking, the type that submits in time and have great team-working, then you keep the pace. But if he's the type that will certainly submit tasks late/difficult to be cooperative/just simply being a lazy person by giving his tasks to others, that's when you be stricter in your tone. You give the same task to him but in a strict manner like if this task isn't submitted by this specific time, then you'll have to do extra work etc.

This is to let them know that you are professional in your work: I am a gentle woman but when it comes to work, work is work. Also to let them know that you are a considerate person [you'll be understanding if he has other burden to fulfill so that you'll reduce the amount of work] but in the same time telling him that you are not a person whom he can "mess up with"
.

Walaikumassalaam wa rehamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Very well said sister. Path of Moderation to be applied in this as well. A mixture of strictness & leniency does the job. Alhamdulilah.

Assalaam alaikum,

I am still trying to figure that one out. I still blame it on many years living embedded in the Hindu caste system. It rubbed off big time. They do not cover.

I do not wish to generalize but it seems as if they reach a certain level of knowledge and it stops. I am at a loss; I see the revert sisters are the ones who make the big strides. They want to learn everything and do it right from the get-go.

In India, personally. I don't find many women wearing hijab/abaya/burqa. Only thing they do is, cover their head with a dupatta, which also slips down most times & gets totally displaced when the wind blows & they are least bothered about it. They wear transparent and also tight clothes & I end up blabbering to myself hitting my head "Wonder why they even wear clothes, shameless!!"

I don't know what the reason could be. But it is very bad to see them that way. Many of them hardly care about it & Islam is not really their priority. Work, ambitions, dance, music & movies, gossip & chit-chat seem of more importance[Its just not with the women, but men too]. Pleasing friends has become more important than pleasing Allah(SWT).

At my work place, I find it very difficult because I have to talk to women. But I make sure I set my limits. Touching is big no no. By chance, without my knowledge if I do touch them, then the very next moment, I go about asking for forgiveness from Allah(SWT). And guess what, my boss is a women. So I guess I cant be without talking to women. When I walk down to food court for lunch. I find it soo difficult to look in the front. Either I have to look down or at the sky or at the buildings. But I make sure either am engrossed in talking with my friends (or) if am alone, I go ahead saying the Tasbeeh. Alhamdulilah. At least that way am in constant reminder to keep my eye sight down. Working hard for it. InshaAllah I will perfect it someday.

ASAK,

Correct. We do need to understand the complex nonverbal cues; sometimes that is difficult for youngsters.

:salam2:

I have never understood the cryptic symbols of Muslim women.

Its very difficult to understand women. They are a mystery. Its better to just respect them the way they are.
But non-verbal cues. Most common -> One full smile is enough.
My friend once told me[ofcourse in a comical way about women] -
" Jitna hasegi utna fasegi " means something like - " the more you smile the more you get caught/trapped "

Peace

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Non verbal cues come from the culture. It is the talking done with the eyes. Sometimes, you get the message across without saying anything. Just know the limits of acceptable non verbal modes of communication.

Women are simple. We like to be treated gently. We do not like loud noises. We know what we are doing. We do it well. We have mood swings. When we say there is nothing wrong with us; there is. But, you have to figure out what is wrong with us. That is what makes us so wonderful. We defy logic. We are logical. We are intelligent.

 

[uniqueskates]

Assalaam alaikum,
Women are simple. We like to be treated gently. We do not like loud noises. We know what we are doing. We do it well. We have mood swings. When we say there is nothing wrong with us; there is. But, you have to figure out what is wrong with us. That is what makes us so wonderful. We are intelligent.

Walaikumassalaam,

You said it all Mother. Couldn't deny any of it. But to add a few more from my side. Inspiration, Courageous, Best Managers, Adorable & Always Full of Love, Affection & Care.!!

We defy logic. We are logical.

No more comments from my side. You beat me hands down.!!

Peace.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

:salam2:

May :Allah: save me from falling into Fitnah and I am not saying women are Fitnah but I am afraid of Shaytaan and my Nafs because it desires women and together its a lethal cocktail. Most Muslim women I know are Masha'Allah pious, practicing, upright and moral and much better then me in Islamic knowledge and practice.

Just deal with the practicalities of life and follow the Sunnah and avoid doubtful matters when it comes to women at work, Masjid etc and avoid doubtful and dubious means because it leads to Fitnah.

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Also, I'd like to add. There are certain circumstances that it's better to avoid a smile. I know smile is charity and giving out a smile to another Muslim esp in the West would be a huge thing but giving it to the opposite gender can have various definitions. This doesn't include if the boss is giving a smile after you've done a great job at work hence why I said "certain circumstances".

I'm not saying a woman thinks that when a guy smiles to her, she thinks her as a pervert when he's just trying to be nice, but just to be on the safe side, leave it altogether.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Exactly, that is why we need to be savvy about those cultural non-verbal cues.

I see silly little girls giggling away. I see how they turn on silly young men. This leads to silly conversations etc. etc.

Professionally, I can not emphasize it enough. In a meeting with a man keep the door open. Stay on the other side of the desk. Keep the e-mails short and to the point.

And brother, women have desire as well as men. We, too, need to be on guard.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Exactly, that is why we need to be savvy about those cultural non-verbal cues.

I see silly little girls giggling away. I see how they turn on silly young men. This leads to silly conversations etc. etc.

Professionally, I can not emphasize it enough. In a meeting with a man keep the door open. Stay on the other side of the desk. Keep the e-mails short and to the point.

And brother, women have desire as well as men. We, too, need to be on guard.

Take 2 to tango...

 

[al-fajr]

But non-verbal cues. Most common -> One full smile is enough.
My friend once told me[ofcourse in a comical way about women] -
" Jitna hasegi utna fasegi " means something like - " the more you smile the more you get caught/trapped "

Indeed.

Also, I'd like to add. There are certain circumstances that it's better to avoid a smile. I know smile is charity and giving out a smile to another Muslim esp in the West would be a huge thing but giving it to the opposite gender can have various definitions. This doesn't include if the boos is giving a smile after you've done a great job at work hence why I said "certain circumstances".

I'm not saying a woman thinks that when a guy smiles to her, she thinks her as a pervert when he's just trying to be nice, but just to be on the safe side, leave it altogether.

Again, I agree.

Professionally, I can not emphasize it enough. In a meeting with a man keep the door open. Stay on the other side of the desk. Keep the e-mails short and to the point.

Seems so obvious, but these rules are too easily abandoned.

Shoes shouldn't make a sound when you walk, no need to announce your presence before people can see you, again perhaps this is very obvious but worth the mention nonetheless.

 

[hayat84]

but if you are not strong enough,it's difficult to spend 8 hours of work in front of aman without exchanging any words!it happens while people take the lift and need to talk of nothing just to say something,and it's just for few seconds!there something called "feromons".It's the chemical substance which everybody contains in its body and it gets activated while in contact with the opposite gender.in some circumstances,why not,a pretty hijabed woman can become the target of some bad-educated man,because he sees her as a wonderful creature but he can't reach her.So my advice is,do the best to stay far from theopposite gender,'cause Shaytan will be the 3rd one among you.!

 

[al-fajr]

but if you are not strong enough,it's difficult to spend 8 hours of work in front of aman without exchanging any words!it happens while people take the lift and need to talk of nothing just to say something,and it's just for few seconds!there something called "feromons".It's the chemical substance which everybody contains in its body and it gets activated while in contact with the opposite gender.in some circumstances,why not,a pretty hijabed woman can become the target of some bad-educated man,because he sees her as a wonderful creature but he can't reach her.So my advice is,do the best to stay far from theopposite gender,'cause Shaytan will be the 3rd one among you.!

No need to go into the science of this, this thread is about social behaviour.

If you read my very first post you will notice that it could have been in response to basically what you've said about interaction.