Assalamu Alaikum,
To my brothers and sister in Islam, I'd like to begin this post with a section I posted some time ago on a thread titled "US Congress passes Ramadan Bill" [It was post #14]. Please read it again very carefully so that you fully understand my stance:
Source: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122845&postcount=14
Having stated the above, I believe the following article will surprise many, and has the potential -God willing- of furthering the propagation of Islam in the West. It's from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation [ABC] website. Note the phrases I coloured red a emphasized in bold type [like this]:
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/16/2006421.htm
There are several points worth mentioning here:
1- I don't agree with Bishop Tiny Muskens' statement "What does God care what we call him? It is our problem.".
We know, as Muslims, that Allah has revealed to us 99 of His Names. Therefore, it's important that Muslims use these names.
Having said that, many Muslims [including scholars] -when speaking to non Muslims- also use the term "God". To read more about this, please click on the following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125546&postcount=11
2- To any Muslims who live in the West and face ignorant remarks such as "Allah means moon", the above statement [of the Catholic Church using the word "Allah" when celebrating Mass in its churches in Indonesia] is a very powerful response [if the person being addressed is a Christian -especially a Catholic-].
This statement has made headlines. Fox news has hosted a debate between a Muslim Imam [Shamsi Ali of the Jamaica Muslim Center] and a Roman Catholic priest [Jonathan Morris]. Please watch it:
[yt]pgJ0s1wNEZc[/yt]
There are two points I'd like to make:
1- Mr. Jonathan Morris said:
Several points could be made:
a) Mr. Morris said, "I have no reason whatsoever to think that Ali here doesn't worship the same God. I don't know if he does or not."
That shows that he didn't know -or forgot about- the official Catholic Church documents such as the Lumen Gentium, Nostra Aetate and The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly admit that Muslims do worship God. It even says so very explicitly in Nostra Aetate that "they [** meaning Muslims**] value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."
To view these official Catholic documents and my position concerning them, please click on the following links:
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13419&postcount=1
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13427&postcount=2
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13476&postcount=4
b) Mr. Morris said, "There's people all over the world right now -and I know Mr. Ali wouldn't [**or would**??] want to agree with this- who are using the word "Allah" in order to refer to a Supreme Being who supposedly invites them or commands them to kill the innocent in his name. If we're looking for a universal word that we can all agree upon, I would suggest we do not use "Allah" so as not to confuse with what's going on. Maybe we could use for example Deus [**am I right in the spelling?**] which is Latin, or really any other thing, of people who are willing to talk to the one God, but the God of peace."
And my response is to quote to him some Biblical verses, taken from the Roman Catholic New American Bible, which are mentioned in my post #9 of the thread "I need clarification." Please click on following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79502&postcount=9
2- Mr. Jonathan Morris said at the end [after agreeing with Mr. Shamsi Ali who quoted the first verse of the Arabic Bible which contains the word "Allah"]:
So, Mr. Morris actually said that if he spoke Arabic, he [the Roman Catholic priest] would use the word "Allah", since he stated "If we're going to speak in Arabic, use the word "Allah" "
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
To my brothers and sister in Islam, I'd like to begin this post with a section I posted some time ago on a thread titled "US Congress passes Ramadan Bill" [It was post #14]. Please read it again very carefully so that you fully understand my stance:
4- We Muslims do not need the recognition of any other religion or country to justify our faith or to make us feel good about ourselves. We have the book of Allah, the authentic sayings of His Messenger [peace be upon him] and the example of the Companions in how they applied and understood these two sources, and this is perfectly adequate to us.
Having said that, that does not mean we cannot use positive statements about Islam coming from non Muslims when there's a necessity and with certain caution [such as stating that our belief is not based on these positive statements].
There are Muslim brothers and sisters who are living in the West [the U.S.A and other western countries], and they are facing huge problems. When facing ignorant remarks such as "you are pagans" and "you worship the moon" and other such foolish garbage, a Muslim should quote the verses of the Qur'an which show our belief in God Almighty and His prophets [including Jesus -peace be upon him-].
But, if that does not work, then we Muslims can use statements such as the above resolution of the U.S.House of Representatives to 'shock' some sense into the minds of the people who utter vulgar and ignorant remarks at Muslims.
A few months ago, I was searching the internet for some information when I came upon a forum which discusses a game. One of the threads was started with a poll asking people if Muslims worshiped the same God as Christians and Jews.
Now, we all know that the Muslims' belief in Allah the Almighty is that He's absolutely One and therefore not a 'Trinity' as Christians claim. We also reject some blasphemous verses in the Old Testament and New Testament that ascribe negative attributes to God Almighty.
Having said that, we Muslims do believe in God Almighty who sent the prophets Noah, Abraham, Moses....etc [among others, peace be upon them all].
There was only one Muslim on that forum, and may Allah reward him for all his effort, but he just couldn't convince one Christian lady who was all out against Islam and refused to acknowledge the Muslims worshiped God Almighty [although she admitted that Jews do].
Then, in came a Roman Catholic and he quoted some official documents of the Catholic Church which shows that Catholics -after centuries of calling us Muslims "pagans"- have admitted that we worship God Almighty.
That Christian lady was left in a very bad position. She continued to attack Islam, but her assertions seemed less credible to many of the non Muslim forum members who accused her of intolerance.
Source: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122845&postcount=14
Having stated the above, I believe the following article will surprise many, and has the potential -God willing- of furthering the propagation of Islam in the West. It's from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation [ABC] website. Note the phrases I coloured red a emphasized in bold type [like this]:
Let's all call God Allah: Dutch bishop
Posted Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:39am AEST
A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.
Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Bishop Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.
"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah?" he said.
"What does God care what we call him? It is our problem."
A survey in the Netherlands' biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop's view, which also drew ridicule.
"Sure. Let's call God Allah. Let's then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper.
Gerrit de Fijter, chairman of the Protestant church in the Netherlands, told the paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue", but added: "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it."
A spokesman from the union of Moroccan mosques in Amsterdam said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture.
Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS.
Some Dutch Muslims welcomed his comments as a valuable gesture of support coming just days after the Koran was branded a "fascist book" which legitimises violence in the vein of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.
Issues of immigration and integration had faded from the Dutch political agenda over the last year, after a period of unprecedented social tension sparked by the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, a filmmaker critical of Islam, by a Muslim militant.
- Reuters
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/16/2006421.htm
There are several points worth mentioning here:
1- I don't agree with Bishop Tiny Muskens' statement "What does God care what we call him? It is our problem.".
We know, as Muslims, that Allah has revealed to us 99 of His Names. Therefore, it's important that Muslims use these names.
Having said that, many Muslims [including scholars] -when speaking to non Muslims- also use the term "God". To read more about this, please click on the following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125546&postcount=11
2- To any Muslims who live in the West and face ignorant remarks such as "Allah means moon", the above statement [of the Catholic Church using the word "Allah" when celebrating Mass in its churches in Indonesia] is a very powerful response [if the person being addressed is a Christian -especially a Catholic-].
This statement has made headlines. Fox news has hosted a debate between a Muslim Imam [Shamsi Ali of the Jamaica Muslim Center] and a Roman Catholic priest [Jonathan Morris]. Please watch it:
[yt]pgJ0s1wNEZc[/yt]
There are two points I'd like to make:
1- Mr. Jonathan Morris said:
I have no reason whatsoever to think that Ali here doesn't worship the same God. I don't know if he does or not. But let's be very clear here. There's people all over the world right now -and I know Mr. Ali wouldn't [**or would**??] want to agree with this- who are using the word "Allah" in order to refer to a Supreme Being who supposedly invites them or commands them to kill the innocent in his name. If we're looking for a universal word that we can all agree upon, I would suggest we do not use "Allah" so as not to confuse with what's going on. Maybe we could use for example Deus [**am I right in the spelling?**] which is Latin, or really any other thing, of people who are willing to talk to the one God, but the God of peace.
Several points could be made:
a) Mr. Morris said, "I have no reason whatsoever to think that Ali here doesn't worship the same God. I don't know if he does or not."
That shows that he didn't know -or forgot about- the official Catholic Church documents such as the Lumen Gentium, Nostra Aetate and The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly admit that Muslims do worship God. It even says so very explicitly in Nostra Aetate that "they [** meaning Muslims**] value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."
To view these official Catholic documents and my position concerning them, please click on the following links:
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13419&postcount=1
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13427&postcount=2
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13476&postcount=4
b) Mr. Morris said, "There's people all over the world right now -and I know Mr. Ali wouldn't [**or would**??] want to agree with this- who are using the word "Allah" in order to refer to a Supreme Being who supposedly invites them or commands them to kill the innocent in his name. If we're looking for a universal word that we can all agree upon, I would suggest we do not use "Allah" so as not to confuse with what's going on. Maybe we could use for example Deus [**am I right in the spelling?**] which is Latin, or really any other thing, of people who are willing to talk to the one God, but the God of peace."
And my response is to quote to him some Biblical verses, taken from the Roman Catholic New American Bible, which are mentioned in my post #9 of the thread "I need clarification." Please click on following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79502&postcount=9
2- Mr. Jonathan Morris said at the end [after agreeing with Mr. Shamsi Ali who quoted the first verse of the Arabic Bible which contains the word "Allah"]:
If we're going to speak in Arabic, use the word "Allah". If I'm gonna speak English -and I'm Christian- I'm going to use the word "God", and I think it's very simple.
So, Mr. Morris actually said that if he spoke Arabic, he [the Roman Catholic priest] would use the word "Allah", since he stated "If we're going to speak in Arabic, use the word "Allah" "
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum