Lets talk about the hadeeths

[Boomerang]

Salam,

Are the Hadiths the direct word from God? I dont think they are, so why are they followed so religiously, with such conviction?
Alot of the things that is said in the hadiths are not in the Qur'an. Is the Qur'an not a perfect enough source of information?

Any comments?

 

[abu'muhammad]

Hadith are oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (SAW). Hadith collections are regarded as important tools for determining the Sunnah, or Muslim way of life, by all traditional schools of jurisprudence.


Aboo Qataadah Al-Ansaaree (radiyallaahu `anhu) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) saying upon this pulpit:

“O people! Beware of relating a lot of Hadeeth about me! Whoever says anything about me must not say except the truth, for whoever ascribes to me what I have not said, let him occupy his seat in the Hell-fire!”

An authentic hadeeth.

allah knows best.

 

[Steve940]

:salam2:

Surah 3 Verse 31-32:

Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.". Say (O Muhammad ) "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.


Here, Allah informs us that we have to obey both him and rasool Allah . Therefore we should do our best to follow the saheeh, authentic hadiths


I hope I did not make any mistakes, truly all benefit is from Allah and the mistakes are from me

:salam2:

 

[justoneofmillion]

Salam,

Are the Hadiths the direct word from God? I dont think they are, so why are they followed so religiously, with such conviction?
Alot of the things that is said in the hadiths are not in the Qur'an. Is the Qur'an not a perfect enough source of information?

Any comments?

:salam2:http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21888
:salam2:
respectfully
jameel

 

[Boomerang]

:salam2:

Surah 3 Verse 31-32:

Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.". Say (O Muhammad ) "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.


Here, Allah informs us that we have to obey both him and rasool Allah . Therefore we should do our best to follow the saheeh, authentic hadiths


I hope I did not make any mistakes, truly all benefit is from Allah and the mistakes are from me

:salam2:

Salam,

I am new to Islam, so please correct me if I am wrong.
Did the Prophet, peace be upon him, speak the words of the sunnah and hadiths, word for word, and record it?
It is the middle men that I dont trust, and I still cant see anywhere in the Qur'an, the word of God, Allahu akbar, that suggests that I should be listening to the words of or books written by mere men.
This is very hard for me to absorb without question.

:shymuslima1:

Thankyou for your reply

 

[Boomerang]

Hadith are oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (SAW). Hadith collections are regarded as important tools for determining the Sunnah, or Muslim way of life, by all traditional schools of jurisprudence.


Aboo Qataadah Al-Ansaaree (radiyallaahu `anhu) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) saying upon this pulpit:

“O people! Beware of relating a lot of Hadeeth about me! Whoever says anything about me must not say except the truth, for whoever ascribes to me what I have not said, let him occupy his seat in the Hell-fire!”

An authentic hadeeth.

allah knows best.

Salam,

Thankyou.
How does one distinguish an authentic hadeeth?

 

[Boomerang]

:salam2:http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21888
:salam2:
respectfully
jameel

I have responded to on the other thread, where you gave me this link. Thankyou

 

[Amir_of_spain]

salam wailkium brother. Hadiths are necessary because they explain the finer details of the religion and its a way of closely forming that bondship with the prophet and his companions. Hadiths definetly cannot be left out as they explain alot, and if all of this extra info was added to the quran, then no one would read it as the quran would then be too large! How do distinguish hadith?
well allah basically used men and women in early islamic history to be the generations who basically rooted the religion. Scholars spent their entire life making a system of analysing hadith, and to be honest, it is a marvel, this system of authentification. Its huge, who is the narrator where was he when he said it, what was the condition, is there any matching hadith, how about the written text, when and where was it recorded, how many narrators in the chain etc. The early imaams have done all the hard work in this field so there have been volumes of hadiths collected and ranked accordingly.

 

[Boomerang]

salam wailkium brother. Hadiths are necessary because they explain the finer details of the religion and its a way of closely forming that bondship with the prophet and his companions. Hadiths definetly cannot be left out as they explain alot, and if all of this extra info was added to the quran, then no one would read it as the quran would then be too large! How do distinguish hadith?
well allah basically used men and women in early islamic history to be the generations who basically rooted the religion. Scholars spent their entire life making a system of analysing hadith, and to be honest, it is a marvel, this system of authentification. Its huge, who is the narrator where was he when he said it, what was the condition, is there any matching hadith, how about the written text, when and where was it recorded, how many narrators in the chain etc. The early imaams have done all the hard work in this field so there have been volumes of hadiths collected and ranked accordingly.

Assalamu Alaikon brother,

(by the way, its a sister here :shymuslima1

Until I understand more about these hadiths, I am going to find it very hard to believe anything but the Quran. I dont know about these scholars. It doesnt feel right to me. I understand mere men to have desires that can sway there judgement, and that can make them wrong. I know from my own life, that I am anything but perfect. Is it wrong of me as a Muslim to only read the Quran?

 

[Abel213]

Becareful sister, think about Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal. Imam Malik and Imam ash-Shafi not to mention the great scholars such as Ibn Taymiyyah. Do you think you might be more knowledgable than them? I don't think thats your intention, but thats what you might be doing unintentionally.

Here are some questions to ponder:


How do you know how to pray using the Quran alone?

How do you know how much Zakaah to pay using the Quran alone?

Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?

Why would Allah preserve the Quran and not preserve the meaning?

How much is the Jizyah that the People of the Book have to pay?

Does the Quran say that cross dressing is haram?

Is it permissible for a man to look at a naked man?

Can I pray Salaah naked?

How do we know the order of the alcohol revelations? Maybe the first of the Quranic revelations said it was haram and then the later ones came saying that is was okay except during prayer times. How do you know the order of its revelations by using the Quran alone?

It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel? How short to cut the prayer?

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

Surah 2:173 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

How do we know that Muta(temporary marriage) is unpermissable?

 

[Boomerang]

Assalamu Alaikom,

Thankyou brother. I am not trying to assume that i know more than the scholars, because I am more than happy to admit that I know less. Im sorry if this is the way it came across. I hope no one sees it at disrespect, but can see that I am searching for the truth.
I will ponder and research your questions brother, and will come back with what I find . There are many questions that you have asked, that I too would like to know the answer to.

Jazaka Allahu Khairan

 

[Amir_of_spain]

Asalam wailkium sister. I can understand your view regarding the classic scholars, or any other scholar who we have never met in real life and so forth. However of you do research you will find that these early scholars or muslims, they were from the best of the best, the cream of the ummah, they have a legacy unrivalled. This is why the prophet said my generation is the best of poeple, and the one after that, and after that. Its not that they just were great in terms of knowledge ie having learnt from the sahaba and the kibaar (great/big) tabeen (successors to the sahaba), they also excelled in practical feats of worship. So they were masters at quran and hadith, and then were masters at practically implementing them. For example take Imaam Bukhari, the mongol scholar from bukarah, he spent his entire life in collecting and verifying hadiths, thats like on a level of a classical biologist spending his entire life in the classification of plant species. Not only do we follow the hadiths of the prophet but also those said by the kibaar sahabah, and all this bulk of info just adds great sweetness and virtue in our understand and practise so its a thing to be happy about and celebrated, the hard work of collection and verification has been done, allah has preserved the religion early on for us later generations to simply pick it up and to absorb it.

 

[mezeren]

Salam,

Are the Hadiths the direct word from God? I dont think they are, so why are they followed so religiously, with such conviction?
Alot of the things that is said in the hadiths are not in the Qur'an. Is the Qur'an not a perfect enough source of information?

Any comments?

:salam2:

F i r s t M a t t e r : The sources of the Noble Prophet’s Illustrious Practices are three: his words, his acts, and his conduct. And there are three categories of each of these three: obligatory, voluntary, and laudable.

It is imperative to follow those that are obligatory and compulsory, and there are penalties and punishment for giving them up. Everyone is charged with following them. As for the voluntary sort, as laudable, the believers are again charged with following them, but there is no penalty or punishment for giving them up. However, there is great merit in acting in accordance with them and following them. And to change them is innovation, misguidance, and a great error. To follow and imitate the Prophet’s customary actions is extremely laudable and in accordance with wisdom, and is beneficial for both personal life and social life and for human kind. For in all his habitual actions are numerous things beneficial for life, and furthermore, through following them, such conduct and actions become like worship.

Yes, since as both friend and foe agree, the person of Muhammad (PBUH) manifested the highest degrees of moral virtues; and since as all are agreed, he is the most famous and excellent individual in the human race; and since as indicated by his thousands of miracles, and testified to by the World of Islam that he founded and its achievements, and affirmed by the truths of the Qur’an of which he was the herald and interpreter, he was the most excellent Perfect Man and most excellent guide; and since as the fruit of following him, millions of the people of perfection have advanced through the degrees of attainment and reached the happiness of both worlds; for sure his Practices and actions are the finest examples to be followed, and the safest guides, and the soundest laws to be taken as principles. Happy is the one whose share of following the Practices of the Prophet (PBUH) is great. While those who are lazy and do not follow them suffer vast loss, and those who consider them to be unimportant commit a great crime, while if they criticize them, which infers denying them, it is serious misguidance.

 

[mezeren]

S e c o n d M a t t e r : Almighty God decrees in the All-Wise Qur’an,
And you [stand] on an exalted standard of character.9

According to sound narrations, when a distinguished Companion like Aisha the Veracious (May God be pleased with her) described the Prophet (Upon whom be blessings and peace), she would say: “His character is the Qur’an.”10 That is to say, “Muhammad (Upon whom be blessings and peace) is the exemplar of the fine moral qualities that the Qur’an expounds. He conforms to them more than anyone, and his nature was created in accordance with them.”

Thus, while the deeds, states, words, and actions of such a person are each worthy to be a model for mankind, how unfortunate are those heedless people of his Community who believe in him yet give no importance to his Practices or want to change them-as even lunatics may understand.
9. Qur’an, 68:4.
10. Muslim, Salatu’l-Musafirin 139; Abu Da’ud, Tatawwu’ 26; Nasa’i, Tatawwu’ 2; Musnad vi, 54, 91, 163, 188,

 

[mezeren]

T h i r d M a t t e r : Since the Noble Prophet (Upon whom be blessings and peace) was created with a most moderate character and in the most perfect form, his actions and rest all proceeded on moderation and equanimity. His biography shows clearly that in all his actions he proceeded with moderation and equanimity, avoiding excess and negligence.

Yes, the Noble Prophet (Upon whom be blessings and peace) conformed completely to the command:

Therefore stand firm [in the Straight Way] as you are commanded,11. Qur’an, 11:112.

and therefore moderation is apparent in all his acts, words, and conduct. For example, free of wiliness and stupidity, which are the excess and negligence, like the corruption and darkness, of the power of reason, his reasoning faculty always worked from the point of wisdom, the middle way and means of moderation. So too, far from rage and cowardice, which are the corruption of the power of anger and its excess and negligence, his power of anger always acted with sacred courage, which is the middle way and means of moderation of that power. And so too, purified of licentiousness and frigidity, which are the excess and negligence of the power of animal appetites and its corruption, his power of passion always took chasteness, the means of moderation of that power, as guide, at the degree of maximum virtuousness. And so on... In all his Practices, daily conduct, and injunctions of his Shari’a, he chose the way of moderation, and avoided excess and negligence, and wastefulness and prodigality, which are wrongdoing and darkness. He avoided wastefulness absolutely and took frugality as his guide in his speech even, and in eating and drinking. Thousands of books have been written describing the details of this truth. In accordance with “A hint is enough for the wise,” we make do with this drop from the ocean and cut the story short here.

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2: Sister,

When we look at the history of how the Sunnah was compiled and recorded, we can see the falsehood of the claim made by some Orientalists that the Sunnah was not recorded until a century or two after the death of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

The truth of the matter is that the recording of the Sunnah began during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him) by his own order. One example of this is the document that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent to his deputy in Yemen explaining matters relating to Zakâh. He also commanded Abû Shâmah to write down his statement during the conquest of Mecca.

Some of the Companions were well known for their recording of every statement that they heard from the Prophet (peace be upon him). Some of the more famous compilations were those of `Ali, Sa`d b. `Ubâdah, and `Abd Alah b. `Amr b. al-`Âs.

It is authentically established that the Prophet (peace be upon him) gave his Companions his express permission to write down everything that he said. `Abd Allah b. `Amr b. al-`Âs relates that he used to write down everything that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say. Members of the tribe of Quraysh told him that he should not do so, saying: “Do you write down everything that you hear from Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) while he is a man who speaks in happiness and anger?” `Abd Allah b. `Amr b. al-`Âs tells us that he stopped and then mentioned this to Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him), upon which Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) told him:

“Write. For I swear by him in whose hand is my soul, nothing emanates from this except the truth.” And he pointed to his mouth. [Related by al-Hâkim and others]

Allah says basically the same thing in the Qur’ân:

“He does not speak of his own desire. It is but revelation that is revealed to him.”

We are not claiming that the Sunnah in its entirety was set down in writing during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him). However, we are saying that the recording of the Sunnah was definitely going on at that time.

We must keep in mind that the written word is not the only way that information is preserved and disseminated. Many nations have preserved their experiences and knowledge by word of mouth alone. Oral preservation and transmission had reached its height of accuracy and advancement with respect to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It has been transmitted to us by the best of people of the best of generations under the most stringent conditions. Whoever acquaints himself with the conditions that the scholars employed for accepting the narrations of others will have no doubt that the Sunnah has been transmitted to us with the utmost accuracy in a way that is unprecedented in history.

The Muslim Ummah has unanimously accepted a good portion of what has been related from our Prophet (peace be upon him), including all the mutawâtir transmissions and all the hadîth recorded in Sahîh Muslim and Sahîh al-Bukhârî.

:salam2:

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2:

Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim are the two most authentic books after the Qur’ân. There are no fabricated hadîth in these two books. We know this for the following reasons:

1. Al-Bukhârî and Muslim made it a condition not to record in their books any hadîth that were not authentic. Al-Bukhârî said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out a number of authentic hadîth so the book would not be overly long.” He also said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out more authentic hadîth than I recorded.”

Muslim said: “I did not place anything in this book of mine without proof for doing so. I did not leave anything out without proof for doing so.” He also said: “I did not place therein every authentic hadîth that I know. I only placed therein that which is unanimously agreed upon.”

2. There is juristic consensus among the scholars (ijmâ`) that all the hadîth in these two works are to be accepted. Al-Nawawî says: “The scholars are in agreement that the Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim are the most authentic books after the Qur’ân. The Muslim Ummah has accepted them.”

Imâm al-Haramayn said: “If a man swears that his wife is divorced from him if the contents of Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim contain anything deemed unauthentic in its attribution to the Prophet (peace be upon him), he would not be divorced nor would he have to expiate for his oath, because there is consensus of the Muslims that they are both authentic.”

3. If we look at the methodology employed by those two scholars in compiling their books and the time that they took in verifying and editing them, and if we consider the number of hadîth from which they drew, we would be convinced of the reliability of their books. Al-Bukhârî drew from 600,000 hadîth and Muslim drew from 300,000 hadîth.

We must also recognize that these two scholars were the foremost authorities in the field of hadîth criticism. This is why their books are so important.

4. Al-Bukhârî took 16 years to complete his book. He did not record a single hadîth in it without first taking a full bath and praying two units of prayer seeking Allah’s guidance in the matter. When he completed his work, he subjected it to peer review, showing it to such eminent scholars if hadîth as Ahmad b. Hanbal, Yahyâ b. Ma`în, and `Alî b. al-Madînî. They all praised the work and verified its authenticity.

:salam2:

 

[mezeren]

Assalamu Alaikon brother,

(by the way, its a sister here :shymuslima1

Until I understand more about these hadiths, I am going to find it very hard to believe anything but the Quran. I dont know about these scholars. It doesnt feel right to me. I understand mere men to have desires that can sway there judgement, and that can make them wrong. I know from my own life, that I am anything but perfect. Is it wrong of me as a Muslim to only read the Quran?

dear sister,
what you say is against islam's teachings.you can not separate quran and sunnah.quran is our first referance and sunnah is the second.no hadeeth can contradict quran.and do not compare yourself or anybody to our beloved Prophet(s.a.w).he is the perfect example for us and not a mere man.

if anyone claim to follow only quran by excluding sunnah,then they must follow quran and read it carefully.here are some verses from Quran.

at Tagabun[12] So obey Allah, and obey His Messenger: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Messenger is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.

Muhammed(33] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and make not vain your deeds!

an-Nisaa [80] He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah; but if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).

an-Nisaa [14] But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: and they shall have a humiliating punishment.

al-i-İmran [132] And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy.


:salam2:

 

[sister2]

The Quran does instruct us to follow the example of the Beloved Prophet Muhammed SAW to do that which he teaches us and to avoid that which he teaches us to.

Basically the Quraan is the aboslute word of Allah and tell us what we need to do/know etc but the prophet SAW was sent to teach us HOW to go about doing/learning

The Hadiths are a written account of the teachings the Prophet SAW, either by what he said or by his example - it is therefore an account of his 'teachings'.

What is important is following hadiths that are authentic/verified and that is why the hadiths are 'graded' as authentic or not and as strong or not based on how it was related/who recorded it, how far removed it was etc etc (i am not too familiar with the exact details here but I know that this is not a matter taken lightly)

If i am not mistaken, the Prophet SAW himself warned against being careful about what is related about him ie unauthentic hadiths. NO doubt the great scholars and other learned, pious individuals are well aware of this and knowledgeable enough to distinguish between the authentic and strong hadiths and i certainly dont know nearly enough to be left to my own interpretation of the quraan and how would I know what the Prophet SAW said did etc if it wasnt through accounts of his example and teachings????

 

[Boomerang]

Assalamu alaikom,

I am really sorry everyone, but I still don't feel any of this in my heart. I still believe in God, and I believe his message was the Quran, and I also believe that Muhammad, peace be upon him, was his messenger. ( the messenger, who's job from God, was to bring to all of us, the Quran)
Perhaps it's because I am new to Islam, and because I have been lost in a wayward world for a long time, that I am having difficulty here. This seems to have upset a few of you. I have been saddened to hear on this thread, that I am going against Islam. I wish you didnt see it like that, but can see that I am new to this religion, and I have things that I am finding hard, so I am learning about them and asking questions.
I am also saddened that some of you think that I have a problem with believing the things that Muhammad, peace be upon him, has said. I don't have any doubt, that what Muhammad has said and done, is worthy of notice (and should be taken as guidance.) What I do have a problem with, is the fact that "other people" have been involved in this transfer of information. If I was reading an autobiography of Muhammad, I would no doubt be a believer, of anything that he instructed to do, as he is the messenger of God, so I believe he did live a very good life. But there is no autobiography.....there may be a few biographies, but they include somebody else's opinion and words, and those persons, were not chosen to be the messengers of GOD.(well not that I can see anyway)

I think this hadiths and sunnahs business is going to be the end of me posting at this forum. I am going to be told I don't know what i am saying and that I am going against Islam, etc etc, and this is not what I came here for.

Changing the subject slightly

I was asked to ponder some thoughts yesterday, by a brother on this thread. The first thought was directed on how we are to know how to pray, by the Quran alone.
It is possible.
The Quran talks about prayer. It tells you when to pray, what to say, and how to perform ablution. I cant find where it mentions the positions.....I wonder why that is not in there? (anyone that wants surahs and verse numbers, just pm me.)

The next thought that I was asked to consider is Zakah, and how are we to know how much to pay. Its true that it isnt in the Quran (that I can find anyway), something that can tell us exactly how much we are to pay. I am sure we know that in our hearts if we have given enough or not, from what we earn. If this is stuff that God wanted us to know, then why isnt it in the Quran?

Im sorry brothers and sisters, but I just dont get it. Can you understand that I find it hard to believe, that God, in all his glory strength and perfection, did not get the Quran right? Of course He got it right. He's God! He gave us how to pray in the Quran, he told us how to prepare for prayer (ablution), what to say, and how many times, and at what times of the day to say it. Why would he have left out bits that are important to the faith?
The same goes for the Zakah. If he wanted us to pay a certain amount of our wages, by a percentage, then why didnt he just say that, when he gave the message to Muhammad?

No doubt I will be evicted from this forum, for saying these things, but I do hope I will be able to stay, and that you all are able to see that it is my love for Allah, that makes me want to know as much as I can about this all.

Kylie

(I still have many more of the questions to ponder from the brother yesterday, and I havent forgotten)