Dear Brother Salamun AlaikumAbu.Amirah said:
"The month of Ramadân in which was revealed the Qur'ân, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadân i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allâh intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allâh [i.e. to say Takbîr (Allâhu-Akbar; Allâh is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadân and Shawwâl] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him."
Surah al-Baqqara (The cow) N°2 verse n°185
"He is the One who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light,established her phases that you may learn to compute the years and other such counts(days,weeks,months).Allah created them only to manifest the truth.He has spelled out His revelations for people who want to understand. Surah Yunus 10:5
Out of this second Aya we learn the miracle of the Quran.
In those times of the Prophet (s.a.w) there were no scientist and no one knew that the moon was taking its light from the sun but this is what Allah(s.w) told us before even scientist discovered about it.
Jazakallahu kheir!
Salamun AlaikumAbu.Amirah said:
"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.
Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moonsighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days. In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:
Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)
Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:
We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)
In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasising their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moonsighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.
This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.
Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.
The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.
The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.
In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moonsighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.
May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir
Further, I know that the meaning of Shahid in arabic is ‘to witness’. And here faman shahida is attributed towards the month of Ramazan not the moon. How can it be referred to the sighting of moon. It basically means that when you are in the month of Ramazan and you are not ill or not in journey, you have to fast.Abu.Amirah said:
"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.
Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moonsighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days. In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:
Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)
Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:
We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)
In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasising their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moonsighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.
This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.
Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.
The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.
The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.
In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moonsighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.
May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir
cyrusarif said:Salamun Alaikum
I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also heve read a lot of other narrations in this regards that heve beet attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable. .
The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.
Dear Mabsoot, Salamun Alaikum.Mabsoot said:Wa alaykum Salam, brother, not everything is mentioned in the Quran, and hence the Hadith are what we rely on as both an explanation of the Quran and also for further guidance.
The validity of hadith is for the Hadith Scholars to make verdict on, not for us. If a hadith is sound, it is obligatory to follow it. So, its not up for debate.. There should be no doubt in the words of the Prophet Muhammad . The way hadith are transmitted is a scientific and precise method, walhamdulilah.
What Abu Amirah said in his post is correct, alhamdulilah. That the sighting of the moon is what should be relied on, not some calculations.
The Lunar calendar doesnt make people confused. If something makes someone confused it is because they have little understanding over it.
Nor is there any doubt over the dates.
Someone might be confused with how to operate a computer or navigate a website.
All the Islamic books use lunar calendar and it is still used today in many Islamic countries such as in Saudi Arabia, and there is no problem using it alongside the other calendars.
The Christian calendar existed at the time of the Sahaabah, but they did not use it, rather they ignored it and used the Hijri calendar.
Allah chose the Lunar based Hijri Calendar for us. Its part of Islam, we are pleased with that for Allah knows better than us and any other human. Our knowledge isnt comparable, so we leave it at that.
Its important we stick to the explanation of the verses from Islamic Scholars and not try to explain verses using our limited knowledge on the subject..
My advice is to ask a scholar, inshaAllah for further direction.
Wasalam.
Friday, 11, August, 2006 (17, Rajab, 1427)
Salamun Alaikum;Abu.Amirah said:A/A,
I understand your point but Allah (s.w) Made both the sun and the moon so that it can help us in our daily lives.We use the sun to calculate the time for prayers and we use the moon to calculate the date for every month.
In surat yasin 36:39 "As for the moon, We have design phases for it till it again becomes like an old dry palm branch. (MALIK)
This shows that Allah (s.w) made it easy for us to determine the accuracy of calculating the date by just watching the moon phase.How is it possible for us to know which date it is today by watching the sun?
When its full moon we already know that today its 13th in that month and till on 15th then the phase change again.
So Quran cannot just be understood without the sunnah. Allah says "WAAKIMU SWALAT" so is there any aya in the Quran which shows us how to pray? But our Prophet sunnah supported this and then we came to understand how to pray.So brother the hadith of the Rasool which are sahih clearly says about how to start and calculate the dates and if you dont agree on them :astag: then its better you ask the scholars.
Jazakallahu kheir
cyrusarif said:I Invite people to participate in the discussion as to reach its logical conclussion. As a lead, I would like to mention here that we the muslims, irrespective of our caste and creed have mistakenly adopted the lunar system instead of the natural calendar system i.e. Solar System, which has without any doubt an authorotative supermacy not only upon the earth but whole the universe.
Mrmuslim said:salaam Alikom
So are you trying to say that what the prophet peace be upon him did was wrong by selecting the lunar system and arabic clander?
or that the prophet peace be up on him was wrong when he said
صوموا لرؤيته وأفطروا لرؤيته(Start fasting with wtiness of moon and end your fast (celebrate Eid) with witnessing the moon)
Only Lunar clander gose by moon sighting...so the Hadith should be enough answer ..
No, what I want to say is that that Prophet S.A.W.A.W. has never adopted the Lunar calendar and it is an serious allegation on Him that he has done something which is not supported by Quraan rather against the Quraanic verses. The correctness of the narration attributed to him is debateable. Further if it is correct in toto, how did you reveal that by ‘witnessing’ necessarily means witnessing of moon?
to clearfy more you answered your Question by your self ....
Soora Toba, Ayat "
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ {36}
" “Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth.” (Surah 9 Verse 36) "
Then the Verses continue of them four are sacred:
The Scared 4 month are only in arabic lunar clander (Muharram,Rajab, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah ) Not in the solar clander ....they were known to Arabs
..so inshallah hopfully this answer your question.
First of all be clear that I am not in general disputing the names of Islamic Months. What I am trying to communicate is that, that the system of calculation of months and years is in the Eyes of Allah as per Quranic verses is Solar and not Lunar. Further, Sacred months are not those as mentioned by you but these should be consecutive as evident from ayat :2 & 5 of Sura tawba which says: فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ {2}
9:2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ {5}
9:5] “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful”. So basically these are the Months which have been in other words referred as Hajj Season in history of Islam which starts from 1st of Shawwal.
Another reasong for using the lunar system
The Islamic calendar being lunar instead of solar has great significance concerning the month of Ramadan. If the calendar used was solar, Muslims living in one hemisphere would have the advantage of fasting in cooler, shorter days, while those living in the other hemisphere would have to fast in the hot and longer days throughout their lifetime. With the lunar calendar, however, the seasons rotate every 32 or 33 years so that the difficulty or ease of fasting is equally shared by all Muslims around the world. This calendar also leads to the rotation of Hajj among the different seasons.
This reasoning is imagined just to satisfy ourselves otherwise by itself it is a major defect of the system that at one place people are fasting for just 4 or 5 hours whereas the people of the other places at the same time fasting for 18 to 20 hours. How can you call it just? But in the solar calendar Ramzan should always come at the beginning of hot seasons in which day and night duration at every hemisphere remains almost equal ( the meaning of the word ‘Ramzan’ as per the dictionaries is hot or heat) (It will be interesting for you to check the meanings of the names of Islamic calendar months and you will be surprised to know that mostly indicate the seasons. E.g.,Rabi-ul-Awwal, Rabi-us-sani, Jamadi-ul-awwal, Jamadi-us-sani, Shawwal etc).
The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) announced the discontinuation of the practice of kabisa and the abandonment of the Qalammasi calendar. The lunar calendar was used as ordained by Allah and the time for Hajj was fixed on the same day of each lunar year.
The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:
“He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning.” (Surah10 Verse 5)
Can you just tell me how can you know the number of years leaving apart the sun? It is the Sun for which the transitional phenomena of changing the day into night and the night into day is attributed, which is a basic unit of weeks, months and the year. Further you can just compare the verse of Sura Al-Asra`a. 12 which says:
وَجَعَلْنَا اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ آيَتَيْنِ فَمَحَوْنَا آيَةَ اللَّيْلِ وَجَعَلْنَا آيَةَ النَّهَارِ مُبْصِرَةً لِتَبْتَغُواْ فَضْلاً مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلِتَعْلَمُواْ عَدَدَ السِّنِينَ وَالْحِسَابَ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ تَفْصِيلاً {12}
[17:12] “And We appoint the night and the day two portents. Then We make dark the portent of the night, and We make the portent of the day sight-giving, that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the computation of the years, and the reckoning; and everything have We expounded with a clear expounding”. Do you find any word that indicate to the moon for computation of years?
In this next verse Allah directs the Muslims to fix the time of Hajj:
“They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage.” (Surah 2 Verse 189)
The complete verse is reproduced here for your re-consideration:
The complete verse is reproduced here for your re-consideration:
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأهِلَّةِ قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ وَالْحَجِّ وَلَيْسَ الْبِرُّ بِأَنْ تَأْتُوْاْ الْبُيُوتَ مِن ظُهُورِهَا وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنِ اتَّقَى وَأْتُواْ الْبُيُوتَ مِنْ أَبْوَابِهَا وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {189}
[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon. Say: They are times appointed for (the benefit of) men, and (for) the pilgrimage; and it is not righteousness that you should enter the houses at their backs, but righteousness is this that one should guard (against evil); and go into the houses by their doors and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, that you may be successful.
[Pickthal 2:189] They ask thee, (O Muhammad), of new moons, say: They are fixed seasons for mankind and for the pilgrimage. It is not righteousness that ye go to houses by the backs thereof (as do the idolaters at certain seasons), but the righteous man is he who wardeth off (evil). So go to houses by the gates thereof, and observe your duty to Allah, that ye may be successful
This Ayat is the one among those which have totally misunderstood by all the Muslims indiscriminately. Following are my objections upon the translation of the ayat and then my understandings:
1. Peoples asked from the Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding some ‘Ahillah’ with relation to the Hajj. Allah s.w.t. tell them that these are(as per already understood meanings) the times for people for Hajj. My objection is that, that why this ayat is revealed in relation to the Hajj which is performed on 9th of Zil-Hajj which is not in any case be directly dependent upon sighting of ‘hilal’ (the Arabic word ‘hilal’ is used for the crescent which is either the first moon that is appeared on sunset of 1st lunar date or the last moon which appears on the 26th or 27th or sometime 28th of lunar month). The shape of moon on 9th of any lunar month can’t be termed as ‘hilal’ which after crossing the half moon comes near to full moon for which in Arabic word ‘badar’ is used. And I think you cannot say that Allah s.w.t. didn’t know this difference. So the word ‘Ahillah’ by all translators and narrators has been misunderstood which actually is not the plural of word ‘hilal’ but it is the plural of word ‘haleel’ which means to chant or to make noise.
2. The word ‘mawaqeet’ is also the word which is totally misunderstood by all the translators and narrators. I failed to understand why people could not understood the word ‘mawaqeet’ even the specific reference of hajj is there. Basically word mawaqeet is the plural of word ‘meqaat’ and I think everybody know what this word has the relation with Hajj.
In my understanding peoples asked from Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding the places from where they have to start chanting of ‘lab`baik Allah humma lab`baik’ and Allah s.w.t. told them that these the same mawaqeet. and those who perform Hajj know that meeqaat around the Macca are numerous and this is the place from where they use to wear special clothings which are called ‘ahraam’ and practically start chanting.
I Allah Guide you for the right path, Ameen.
regards
Cyrusarif