The Christian practice of worshiping Mary

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum,


About a week ago, there was this Christian member named "Zardoz" who tried to attack the Qur'an by claiming there was a mistake [I seek refuge with Allah from such a saying] in how the trinity was mentioned in the Qur'an.


I posted a reply, but then all of his posts [and all threads he started] were completely deleted by the administration of this website. May Allah reward all the moderators for their efforts.


I have posted my reply on another forum, and I have also posted another subject which is closely related to my reply on that same forum. I believe that -God willing- it will be beneficial for all my brothers and sisters in Islam to read these two posts to be prepared to respond if anyone raises the same argument as Zardoz did.


Please click on the following two links. The two posts are long, but I hope you'll see -God willing- that they're worth reading:

http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16242&postcount=32
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16344&postcount=1


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
 

BGfromGB

Junior Member
Worshipping Mary.

Assalamu Alaikum,


About a week ago, there was this Christian member named "Zardoz" who tried to attack the Qur'an by claiming there was a mistake [I seek refuge with Allah from such a saying] in how the trinity was mentioned in the Qur'an.


I posted a reply, but then all of his posts [and all threads he started] were completely deleted by the administration of this website. May Allah reward all the moderators for their efforts.


I have posted my reply on another forum, and I have also posted another subject which is closely related to my reply on that same forum. I believe that -God willing- it will be beneficial for all my brothers and sisters in Islam to read these two posts to be prepared to respond if anyone raises the same argument as Zardoz did.


Please click on the following two links. The two posts are long, but I hope you'll see -God willing- that they're worth reading:

http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16242&postcount=32
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16344&postcount=1


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
Hi there blue. Haven't heard you for quite some time.

about the "christian" concept of worshipping Mary. From what I know, it's it's only the Catholics that "worship" Mary. I've personally never worshipped mary nor have any of the congregations/churches that I have attended in the past haven't remotely worshipped Mary. I think that's a misnomer and all muslims should be aware of that. All converts to Islam except ex catholics, should be truthful and let their new brothers and sisters be aware of that fact.

Having said that I cannot understand how "ZARDOZ" has been summarily and arbitrarily banned. Surely Islam and the Qur'an is above his comments? If the Qur'an is ultimately THE TRUTH then he has a lot to lose. By banning him arbitrarily gives him the "ammunition" he is looking for. Sure there are things he says that one disagrees with. But the truth WILL prevail and that is what matters.

And please don't think I'm defending his case. By banning him, it is this site that has given him that mechanism of defence especially to all those non muslims and disillusioned christians who have come here and are looking for a new religious home.
 

rougan

Junior Member
Hi there blue. Haven't heard you for quite some time.

about the "christian" concept of worshipping Mary. From what I know, it's it's only the Catholics that "worship" Mary. I've personally never worshipped mary nor have any of the congregations/churches that I have attended in the past haven't remotely worshipped Mary. I think that's a misnomer and all muslims should be aware of that. All converts to Islam except ex catholics, should be truthful and let their new brothers and sisters be aware of that fact.

Having said that I cannot understand how "ZARDOZ" has been summarily and arbitrarily banned. Surely Islam and the Qur'an is above his comments? If the Qur'an is ultimately THE TRUTH then he has a lot to lose. By banning him arbitrarily gives him the "ammunition" he is looking for. Sure there are things he says that one disagrees with. But the truth WILL prevail and that is what matters.

And please don't think I'm defending his case. By banning him, it is this site that has given him that mechanism of defence especially to all those non muslims and disillusioned christians who have come here and are looking for a new religious home.

If you happen to live in a place where Christianity, specifically Catholicism is really pre-dominant you will understand how Mary is actually being revered as a very powerful figure. I am a Catholic myself but I don’t belong to the statistics. In my own opinion, she is a very important figure but it is wrong to worship her. There is only One God and obviously this is not exactly what is being preached. But lemme clarify that not all Christians or Catholics for that matter, worship Mary just like God.
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Hello BGfromGB,


It's nice to hear from you again. Yes, it has been quite a while since we last had a conversation on this forum.


You wrote the following:

about the "christian" concept of worshipping Mary. From what I know, it's it's only the Catholics that "worship" Mary. I've personally never worshipped mary nor have any of the congregations/churches that I have attended in the past haven't remotely worshipped Mary. I think that's a misnomer and all muslims should be aware of that. All converts to Islam except ex catholics, should be truthful and let their new brothers and sisters be aware of that fact.


Come to think of it, I guess you're right. The title of this thread [i.e. The Christian practice of worshiping Mary] could be misleading since one might very well understand that all Christians worship Mary, and that's certainly not the case. I apologize for this ill choice of a title.


Protestants actually attack the way Catholics view the Virgin Mary and how they ask for her intercession [along with other dead people Catholics term "Saints"].


In Islam, the act of supplicating to a dead person -so that he or she in turn relates that supplication to God Almighty or so that he [i.e. the dead person] fulfills the needs of the caller- is an act of worship. And therefore, Catholics -as viewed by Muslims- do worship the Virgin Mary because it's a very common practice among them to supplicate to the Virgin Mary so that she intercedes with God Almighty. Even though Catholics don't call this act "worshiping", it fits the Islamic concept of worship.


Extreme -not moderate- Sufis [what might be translated as "Islamic Mystics"] also have this very dangerous practice of supplicating to dead people. That fulfills one of the conditions of putting them out of the fold of Islam. Even if the dead person is our beloved Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him], no supplication should be directed towards him. All supplication should be directed towards God Almighty alone and to no one else.


Having said that, what I posted in the imanway forum actually relates to a cult withing the Catholic Church which actually believes that the Virgin Mary is divine because -according to their belief- she was hypostatically united to the what Christians [and not Muslims] believe to be the divine Holy Spirit. Which means they now view the Virgin Mary as part of what Christians term the 'Trinity'.


And so, my two posts will -God willing- show that the attacks on the Qur'an -about the alleged mistake in understanding the trinity- is baseless because there are people in this world who call themselves Christians while at the same time believe that the 'Trinity' is made up of what they term 'Father', 'Son' and the Virgin Mary.


And this belief is being tolerated by the Catholic Church, as evidenced in my posts in the imanway forum.


Needless to say, I believe you already know that Muslims categorically deny this 'Trinity' concept and believe that God Almighty is absolutely One.


You also wrote the following:

Having said that I cannot understand how "ZARDOZ" has been summarily and arbitrarily banned. Surely Islam and the Qur'an is above his comments? If the Qur'an is ultimately THE TRUTH then he has a lot to lose. By banning him arbitrarily gives him the "ammunition" he is looking for. Sure there are things he says that one disagrees with. But the truth WILL prevail and that is what matters.


Well, I'm no moderator, so the decision is up to the moderators. Another member in the imanway forum actually posted the same attack on that forum [the one I responded to in my two posts] and he's still there with his posts intact.


I believe it may have something to do with the cost of maintaining this website. The more threads and posts there are, the more difficult it becomes for the administration of TurnToIslam to come up with the necessary funds to maintain it. That may be a reason for the moderators putting an end to Zardoz's posts and his account. And he seemed pretty determined to go on and on. In fact, his first post on this forum was something like "Hello, I've come here to either confirm what I already know about Islam or to find out something positive." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find out that he had a pretty bad idea about Islam.


Thank you, BG, for taking the time to comment on my post.


I wish you all the best.


Regards,

Bluegazer
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Hello rougan,


Welcome to this forum.


You wrote the following:

If you happen to live in a place where Christianity, specifically Catholicism is really pre-dominant you will understand how Mary is actually being revered as a very powerful figure. I am a Catholic myself but I don’t belong to the statistics. In my own opinion, she is a very important figure but it is wrong to worship her. There is only One God and obviously this is not exactly what is being preached. But lemme clarify that not all Christians or Catholics for that matter, worship Mary just like God.


I'm glad you believe it's wrong to worship the Virgin Mary. And I'm also coming to realize that what you're saying that "that not all Christians or Catholics for that matter, worship Mary just like God" is true.


Actually, I always thought -up to a recent time- that Catholics are very strict about their theology, meaning that there's little room for difference among them in matters of the Creed [i.e. basic articles of faith]. It's because all Catholics belong to one Church which has this hierarchy that demands absolute conformity.


However, I came to realize that this isn't necessarily the case. I was very surprised by what some Roman Catholic priests had to say. I now understand that among all Christians, Catholics -who make up half of all Christians in the world- have the most well defined set up beliefs , although I must add that -as a Muslim- I strongly disagree with many of these beliefs.


Please click on the following links, which will take you to two posts in a thread titled "What the Catholic Church says about Islam":

http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13419&postcount=1
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13427&postcount=2


I wish you all the best, and I hope you find TurnToIslam a good source for information about Islam.


Best regards,

Bluegazer
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
BGfromGB is right - that's one of the things Protestants find VERY wrong with the Catholic church, and you wouldn't catch a Protestant doing anything of the sort. Though, most Catholics will argue semantics and claim that they don't worship her, they just "venerate" her. Same thing.
 

rougan

Junior Member
Hello rougan,


Welcome to this forum.


You wrote the following:




I'm glad you believe it's wrong to worship the Virgin Mary. And I'm also coming to realize that what you're saying that "that not all Christians or Catholics for that matter, worship Mary just like God" is true.


Actually, I always thought -up to a recent time- that Catholics are very strict about their theology, meaning that there's little room for difference among them in matters of the Creed [i.e. basic articles of faith]. It's because all Catholics belong to one Church which has this hierarchy that demands absolute conformity.


However, I came to realize that this isn't necessarily the case. I was very surprised by what some Roman Catholic priests had to say. I now understand that among all Christians, Catholics -who make up half of all Christians in the world- have the most well defined set up beliefs , although I must add that -as a Muslim- I strongly disagree with many of these beliefs.


Please click on the following links, which will take you to two posts in a thread titled "What the Catholic Church says about Islam":

http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13419&postcount=1
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13427&postcount=2


I wish you all the best, and I hope you find TurnToIslam a good source for information about Islam.


Best regards,

Bluegazer


Hey! Feels good to be here. Well, Christianity has become a very complicated religion. Every sect/denomination has it’s own interpretation of the message of God. There are always disagreements between these groups. This is true for Catholicism too. The younger generations of Catholics are not really blind believers in all the aspect of Catholicism as their predecessors. Most of us now are quite “selective” on what to accept and what to reject. Education really played an important part on this change. An individual who looks into the message of God through Christ in the Bible without taking into consideration the things that the church tried to implement would understand that Christ’s message is clear. There is only One God and salvation is only through Him. There is no trinity and Mary was never put as one of the central themes in the history of salvation. This is only an opinion however because I am not in the position to say anything on behalf of the entire Christian/Catholic population. This is more like a personal observation.
 

aeeshafarhana

New Member
Assalamua laykum
I read the 1st thread,waahhh i got a headache of the christain catholic believe... I pity of those ppl who follow what others said and never research for the truth... Alhamdullillah Im a muslim now (slave of Allah swt).. Im proud to be a muslim!!!
 

aeeshafarhana

New Member
Assalamu Alaikum,


About a week ago, there was this Christian member named "Zardoz" who tried to attack the Qur'an by claiming there was a mistake [I seek refuge with Allah from such a saying] in how the trinity was mentioned in the Qur'an.


I posted a reply, but then all of his posts [and all threads he started] were completely deleted by the administration of this website. May Allah reward all the moderators for their efforts.


I have posted my reply on another forum, and I have also posted another subject which is closely related to my reply on that same forum. I believe that -God willing- it will be beneficial for all my brothers and sisters in Islam to read these two posts to be prepared to respond if anyone raises the same argument as Zardoz did.


Please click on the following two links. The two posts are long, but I hope you'll see -God willing- that they're worth reading:

http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16242&postcount=32
http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=16344&postcount=1


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

Assalamua laykum
I read the 1st thread,waahhh i got a headache of the christain catholic believe... I pity of those ppl who follow what others said and never research for the truth... Alhamdullillah Im a muslim now (slave of Allah swt).. Im proud to be a muslim!!!
 

rougan

Junior Member
BGfromGB is right - that's one of the things Protestants find VERY wrong with the Catholic church, and you wouldn't catch a Protestant doing anything of the sort. Though, most Catholics will argue semantics and claim that they don't worship her, they just "venerate" her. Same thing.

That's true. They just "venerate" her quite "heavily". That's only an excuse but if you are a Catholic, you will know that this is not the case. Catholics pray to her since the “church” instill in our minds that she has a power to influence God’s decisions. Intercede for them. I respect this belief but I disagree to it.
 

rougan

Junior Member
Assalamua laykum
I read the 1st thread,waahhh i got a headache of the christain catholic believe... I pity of those ppl who follow what others said and never research for the truth... Alhamdullillah Im a muslim now (slave of Allah swt).. Im proud to be a muslim!!!

To search for the truth is a personal thing. You might be surrounded by a lot of facts but to figure out the "truth" always comes from within oneself.
 

omayrat

New Member
To search for the truth is a personal thing. You might be surrounded by a lot of facts but to figure out the "truth" always comes from within oneself.

And to add to this...

2:213 "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. [B]For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight[/B]


ameen.
 

BGfromGB

Junior Member
Proud

Assalamua laykum
I read the 1st thread,waahhh i got a headache of the christain catholic believe... I pity of those ppl who follow what others said and never research for the truth... Alhamdullillah Im a muslim now (slave of Allah swt).. Im proud to be a muslim!!!
And i am proud to be a non religious person but a deep follower of God's 10 commandments and what he teaches in the scriptures. That means observing the sabbath. Something which Islam and christianity totally reject and have since replaced with Friday and a Sunday. None of which are taught in the Quran or The Bible.
 

abdulboji

New Member
"115-116":
And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

the translation is wrong , there is no mention "besides" in arabic it is "من دون الله "
it means "with out Allah", so the true translation of the verse is :

And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods WITH OU Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

so the verse doesn't talk about trinity it is a question from Allah to Jesus are you said to people to worship you and your mother with out worship Allah who deserve to be worshiped alone , this is the true meaning in arabic ... sorry for my english but i read the verse in arabic it is absolutely and totally not talk about trinity it is a question from god to jesus .
 

BrotherZak

Junior Member
And i am proud to be a non religious person but a deep follower of God's 10 commandments and what he teaches in the scriptures. That means observing the sabbath. Something which Islam and christianity totally reject and have since replaced with Friday and a Sunday. None of which are taught in the Quran or The Bible.


O you who believe (Muslims)! When the call is proclaimed for the Salât (prayer) on the day of Friday (Jumu'ah prayer), come to the remembrance of Allâh [Jumu'ah religious talk (Khutbah) and Salât (prayer)] and leave off business (and every other thing), that is better for you if you did but know! --Quran 62. Al-Jumu'ah

The entire chapter is named after it so instead of being so quick to throw out accusations i would suggest you either ask a learned person or read the quran. Even then the quran will not exactly say explicitly how it is performed this is where the Hikmah of prophet MOhammed(pbuh) where he taught the companions how to pray and in what manner. For instance the word Hekmah or wisdom is alongside the mention of the book in the quran. Scholars of the majority agree that the wisdom of how to exactly perform the rites and rituals is taught by Mohammed who is inspired.

"Allâh has surely blessed the believers with His favor when He raised in their midst a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, while they were, earlier in open error. (3:164)"
 

Karima

Junior Member
Asalamualikum,

"Allâh has surely blessed the believers with His favor when He raised in their midst a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, while they were, earlier in open error. (3:164)"

What more needs to be said........

Thank you for posting this...Brother Zak....

Sallam
 
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