The "wipe Israel off the map " myth

Selamu aleikum,
Thruth must be told!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ

PRESIDENTS OR OWNERS Of Media Corporations:
CBS - Jewish - Paley
NBC - Jewish - Jeff -(rey) Zucker
ABC - Jewish - Stuart Bloomberg and George W. Bodenheimer
ABC news - Jewish - David Westin
CNN - Jewish - Gerald Levin
FOX - Jewish - Gail Berman
MBS - Jewish - Ronnessen
 
Salaam,

Jazakallah khair

I have never had trust in American media. They don't show the tortures the Zionists are committing on the Palestinians, or the American soldiers raping, murdering Iraqis, Afghans and blowing up masjids.

Allah swt Knows Best

P.S. Admins please stop trying to close the threads too early
 

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

alhamdulilah
:salam2:

This is why I always caution people not to take at face-value what they hear and see in the media: Power has been consolidated into only a few hands, and all too often now the various medias exist simply to keep you surpressed: intellectually, spirtually, emotionally, and even physically numb to the realities of this life. To them, we are merely cattle, and they are the great chosen ones who alone are able to guide us.

And yes, closing threads early just because a couple individuals don't see eye to eye is frustrating; Notice too how participation on the forums quickly flatlines when cencorship is exerted. If we all agreed 100% of the time, would there be anything left worth learning?

:wasalam:
 

OmarTheFrench

Junior Member
Lost in translation

Experts confirm that Iran´s president did not call for Israel to be ´wiped off the map´. Reports that he did serve to strengt

My recent comment piece explaining how Iran´s president was badly misquoted when he allegedly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" has caused a welcome little storm. The phrase has been seized on by western and Israeli hawks to re-double suspicions of the Iranian government´s intentions, so it is important to get the truth of what he really said.

I took my translation - "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" - from the indefatigable Professor Juan Cole´s website where it has been for several weeks.

But it seems to be mainly thanks to the Guardian giving it prominence that the New York Times, which was one of the first papers to misquote Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, came out on Sunday with a defensive piece attempting to justify its reporter´s original "wiped off the map" translation. (By the way, for Farsi speakers the original version is available here.)

Joining the "off the map" crowd is David Aaronovitch, a columnist on the Times (of London), who attacked my analysis yesterday. I won´t waste time on him since his knowledge of Farsi is as minimal as that of his Latin. The poor man thinks the plural of casus belli is casi belli, unaware that casus is fourth declension with the plural casus (long u).

The New York Times´s Ethan Bronner and Nazila Fathi, one of the paper´s Tehran staff, make a more serious case. They consulted several sources in Tehran. "Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran´s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say ´wipe off´ or ´wipe away´ is more accurate than ´vanish´ because the Persian verb is active and transitive," Bronner writes.

The New York Times goes on: "The second translation issue concerns the word ´map´. Khomeini´s words were abstract: ´Sahneh roozgar.´ Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as ´map´, and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not ´Sahneh roozgar´ but ´Safheh roozgar´, meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word ´map´ again."

This, in my view, is the crucial point and I´m glad the NYT accepts that the word "map" was not used by Ahmadinejad. (By the way, the Wikipedia entry on the controversy gets the NYT wrong, claiming falsely that Ethan Bronner "concluded that Ahmadinejad had in fact said that Israel was to be wiped off the map".)

If the Iranian president made a mistake and used "safheh" rather than "sahneh", that is of little moment. A native English speaker could equally confuse "stage of history" with "page of history". The significant issue is that both phrases refer to time rather than place. As I wrote in my original post, the Iranian president was expressing a vague wish for the future. He was not threatening an Iranian-initiated war to remove Israeli control over Jerusalem.

Two other well-established translation sources confirm that Ahmadinejad was referring to time, not place. The version of the October 26 2005 speech put out by the Middle East Media Research Institute, based on the Farsi text released by the official Iranian Students News Agency, says: "This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history." (NB: not "wiped". I accept that "eliminated" is almost the same, indeed some might argue it is more sinister than "wiped", though it is a bit more of a mouthful if you are trying to find four catchy and easily memorable words with which to incite anger against Iran.)

:d) MEMRI (its text of the speech is available here) is headed by a former Isareli military intelligence officer and has sometimes been attacked for alleged distortion of Farsi and Arabic quotations for the benefit of Israeli foreign policy. On this occasion they supported the doveish view of what Ahmadinejad said. :g)

Finally we come to the BBC monitoring service which every day puts out hundreds of highly respected English translations of broadcasts from all round the globe to their subscribers - mainly governments, intelligence services, thinktanks and other specialists. I approached them this week about the controversy and a spokesperson for the monitoring service´s marketing unit, who did not want his name used, told me their original version of the Ahmadinejad quote was "eliminated from the map of the world".

As a result of my inquiry and the controversy generated, they had gone back to the native Farsi-speakers who had translated the speech from a voice recording made available by Iranian TV on October 29 2005. Here is what the spokesman told me about the "off the map" section: "The monitor has checked again. It´s a difficult expression to translate. They´re under time pressure to produce a translation quickly and they were searching for the right phrase. With more time to reflect they would say the translation should be "eliminated from the page of history".

Would the BBC put out a correction, given that the issue had become so controversial, I asked. "It would be a long time after the original version", came the reply. I interpret that as "probably not", but let´s see.

Finally, I approached Iradj Bagherzade, the Iranian-born founder and chairman of the renowned publishing house, IB Tauris. He thought hard about the word "roozgar". "History" was not the right word, he said, but he could not decide between several better alternatives "this day and age", "these times", "our times", "time".

So there we have it. Starting with Juan Cole, and going via the New York Times´ experts through MEMRI to the BBC´s monitors, the consensus is that Ahmadinejad did not talk about any maps. He was, as I insisted in my original piece, offering a vague wish for the future.

A very last point. The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah´s regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970´s he surely did not favour Iran´s removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out.

The same with regard to Israel. The Iranian president is undeniably an opponent of Zionism or, if you prefer the phrase, the Zionist regime. But so are substantial numbers of Israeli citizens, Jews as well as Arabs. The anti-Zionist and non-Zionist traditions in Israel are not insignificant. So we should not demonise Ahmadinejad on those grounds alone.

Does this quibbling over phrases matter? Yes, of course. Within days of the Ahmadinejad speech the then Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, was calling for Iran to be expelled from the United Nations. Other foreign leaders have quoted the map phrase. The United States is piling pressure on its allies to be tough with Iran.

Let me give the last word to Juan Cole, with whom I began. "I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no."

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_steele/2006/06/post_155.html
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
It's true he never said it. the company who did the translation, MEMRI (I think) has a history of messing things up and changing things around. The entire speech was shown on c-span, correctly. It's just that the major media outlets cherry picked what he said.

Even if he had said something like it, I think it's clear he's doing all this Holocaust denial stuff as an attention getter more than anything. He just wants all the attention on him, and he wants the Iranian people to focus on a common enemy, rather than focus on the numerous internal problems.

Not everything is a conspiracy by the Jews, though, and it's terribly ignorant to presume such a thing.
 
It's true he never said it. the company who did the translation, MEMRI (I think) has a history of messing things up and changing things around. The entire speech was shown on c-span, correctly. It's just that the major media outlets cherry picked what he said.

Even if he had said something like it, I think it's clear he's doing all this Holocaust denial stuff as an attention getter more than anything. He just wants all the attention on him, and he wants the Iranian people to focus on a common enemy, rather than focus on the numerous internal problems.

Not everything is a conspiracy by the Jews, though, and it's terribly ignorant to presume such a thing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OX16mQjKhw

LOL
 

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

alhamdulilah
:salam2:

I like the YouTube videos that just display Text without Music... sentance by sentance passing by, there's a certain degree of suspence to them! ;D

As soon as you know who MEMRI was founded by, everyone should automatically dismiss their objectivity. Clearly this group is just another tool in the zionists' box for manipulating public thought and directing the course of human history.

And yes, to think that the zionists are the only ones responsible for every one of the world's conspiracies is unrealistic - but from what I have observed they are responsible for many of the major redirections. Such as WW1, WW2, the end of Czarist Russia & beginnings of Communism, the Palestine Crisis, American Foreign Policy decisions, British Foreign Policy decisions, tensions/past conflicts in the Middle East, brainwashing through their medias to keep the general global population numb intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically. After all we Goyum, we cattle, are not much good to the Chosen Ones if we're aware or resistant.

:wasalam:
 
:salam2:

I like the YouTube videos that just display Text without Music... sentance by sentance passing by, there's a certain degree of suspence to them! ;D

As soon as you know who MEMRI was founded by, everyone should automatically dismiss their objectivity. Clearly this group is just another tool in the zionists' box for manipulating public thought and directing the course of human history.

And yes, to think that the zionists are the only ones responsible for every one of the world's conspiracies is unrealistic - but from what I have observed they are responsible for many of the major redirections. Such as WW1, WW2, the end of Czarist Russia & beginnings of Communism, the Palestine Crisis, American Foreign Policy decisions, British Foreign Policy decisions, tensions/past conflicts in the Middle East, brainwashing through their medias to keep the general global population numb intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically. After all we Goyum, we cattle, are not much good to the Chosen Ones if we're aware or resistant.

:wasalam:

Asalaamalikum,

I didn't know about MEMRI. I just learned something new.

Jazakallah khair
 

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
:salam2:

Want to know what Jews think about the Zionists? Then please visit: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Recently Mr. Ahmadinejad spoke at the Columbia University, the president of that University is a neo-con or influenced by neo-cons and he was very rude and insulting to Mr. Ahmadinejad in his introduction speech. The controlled media didn't present the full reply of Mr. Ahmadinejad. Here is the full transcript of Ahmadinejad Speech at Columbia University:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6889

I have found that globalresearch.ca publishes some great aricles

:wasalam:
 
:salam2:

Want to know what Jews think about the Zionists? Then please visit: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Recently Mr. Ahmadinejad spoke at the Columbia University, the president of that University is a neo-con or influenced by neo-cons and he was very rude and insulting to Mr. Ahmadinejad in his introduction speech. The controlled media didn't present the full reply of Mr. Ahmadinejad. Here is the full transcript of Ahmadinejad Speech at Columbia University:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6889

I have found that globalresearch.ca publishes some great aricles

:wasalam:

Salaam,

Jazakallah khair for sharing

Columbia University including it's presidents were like animals and savages. I can't believe that's how they treat a President or a human being that has done nothing to them. The president of the University called Ahamdinejad a "dictator" - who is he dictating? They love to divide people and give them labels. This is blasphemy!

Globalresearch does have some excellent articles.

Read this article "A Culture of Violence"

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6891
 

loveislam1

Junior Member
Asalam alikoum I read the transcripts and was absolutely appauled at how they introduced him ......

While there may be "freedom of speech" (aside from censorship and editing ) there is no real freedom of thought. The masses here are corralled. In the media it is doubly apparent, when there is a debate on an important issue and two sides are presented they dont just let the people decide for themselves, they then bring in another expert to tell you what was said. Be sure to watch for it next time, it is very apparent once you see it and they do it everytime in order to get the message across that they want to audience to hear.

May Allah subhana wa t'ala continue to guide us to truth and justice in all things and keep us on the path of good will and righteousness ameen.
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
that is true that do closed threads without telling you.......anyway I don't like the news either especially bill o rielly
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
:salam2:

Want to know what Jews think about the Zionists? Then please visit: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Recently Mr. Ahmadinejad spoke at the Columbia University, the president of that University is a neo-con or influenced by neo-cons and he was very rude and insulting to Mr. Ahmadinejad in his introduction speech. The controlled media didn't present the full reply of Mr. Ahmadinejad. Here is the full transcript of Ahmadinejad Speech at Columbia University:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6889

I have found that globalresearch.ca publishes some great aricles

:wasalam:

Yay, thanks! Me and my friend were looking everywhere for a transcript of the debate at Columbia.

Honestly, though, that Lee Bollinger is a tool. You can just tell by the things he was saying that he doesn't full grasp the entire situation...at all. And even if he did, why on earth would you treat someone like that? I don't invite a guest to my home and then punch them in the face. You don't invite a man to your university to speak and then insult him.
 

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

alhamdulilah
Yay, thanks! Me and my friend were looking everywhere for a transcript of the debate at Columbia.

Honestly, though, that Lee Bollinger is a tool. You can just tell by the things he was saying that he doesn't full grasp the entire situation...at all. And even if he did, why on earth would you treat someone like that? I don't invite a guest to my home and then punch them in the face. You don't invite a man to your university to speak and then insult him.


:SMILY303: :lol:


:salam2:

Thanks for the "debate" transcript. Amadinejad must sure have some amazing patience to be putting himself out there like a lamb for the slaughter, doing all of these open public events whilst taking the cumulative blunt ignorance that has become America.

But like I said in the thread that that prematurely closed: I like and admire the guy, I just don't trust the system which he represents. They might not have literally said "wipe Isreal off the map", but "remove Isreal from the pages of this time" could easily be understood in a violent way, down the road. Seems to me there's alot of Fitnah going on in Iran, and with volitile leadership (even those above Ahmadinejad) that gladly fuse religion and politics (which seems to be the foundation of Shiaism) I worry for our children.

:wasalam:
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
:SMILY303: :lol:


:salam2:

Thanks for the "debate" transcript. Amadinejad must sure have some amazing patience to be putting himself out there like a lamb for the slaughter, doing all of these open public events whilst taking the cumulative blunt ignorance that has become America.

But like I said in the thread that that prematurely closed: I like and admire the guy, I just don't trust the system which he represents. They might not have literally said "wipe Isreal off the map", but "remove Isreal from the pages of this time" could easily be understood in a violent way, down the road. Seems to me there's alot of Fitnah going on in Iran, and with volitile leadership (even those above Ahmadinejad) that gladly fuse religion and politics (which seems to be the foundation of Shiaism) I worry for our children.

:wasalam:

I agree. I think the Islamic leaders in Iran are a much bigger threat than ahmadinejad is. There are points I really love about him, and some I really dislike. My friends say I'm an ahmadinejad fangirl (lol), and I guess I am, but I'm nowhere near supporting all of his policies.
 
Top