Explanation of a hadith

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
:salam2:
JazakAllah khair brother for posting the video and answer

But i have a confusion still, How can i women present herself to a guy for marriage, like in the other hadith there was no mention of parents/guardian permission can she present herself even without their permission?

Please elaborate on the hadith and topic
Thank YOU
JazakAllah for ur answer :)
:salam2: Shaheer Bhai.

Actually, a women DOES need a Mahram for marriage, IF she's young and you know....(I don't feel right saying this word, means that they didn't do something). But if a Muslim women had a previous marriage, and become widowed, or divorced, then a Mahram is not required (as far as I recall, I think it was from IslamQA).

And Allah Subhanahu wa Ta Alla knows best.

:salam2:
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Izzy, take it easy. Let don't hijack somebody's thread. Iwill create a new thread and let's start debate from there.

_____________

For the sake of continuity, let me proceed with the same thread. Shaheer bhai, pls allow me.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
I'm sorry,
I'm turkish. In my turkish Quran, the house of Prophet is translated as Ehlulbayt...which means the prophets family right? Don't accuse me of cults please. I was born into a Sufi family, my wife is Sunni. I only refer to myself as Muslim elhamdurillah, I've rejected all sect beliefs..


Who is that genius and with authority from who this genius changed the surah name? From the websites? If not calling this as cult, then what? I'm nto sure turkish, but Ahlul bayt is arabic. The surah name was already fixed since The Prophet time.

Brother, the only sects or cults that I know are those deviant teachings. Sorry, not accusing, I took your are. Rejecting Hadith is also a cult group deviated from the truth. Go and get a good sheikh. May Allah guide you. Ameen.


By the way, I found all this on my own. I discoverred the "Allah/Quran only" websites after searching for answers on the internet once I read through the Quran. Please do not discriminate me. If in any way I'm trying to divide or lead anyone away from the truth or show you ayats without referring back to the Quran unless it is a contradicting Hadith, then I hope Allah punishes me in the worst possible way..[/


This is good one. You are learning from a websites? Is not totalling wrong, you can as to find some referrences but you must verify what you got from the websites. Any jokers can go and create new websites and fool people around. Again, go and get a sheikh. I hope Allah will guide you to the truth, inshAllah.


006.038
And there is no animal that walks upon the earth nor a bird that flies with its two wings but (they are) genera like yourselves; WE HAVE NOT NEGLECTED ANYTHING IN THE BOOK, then to their Lord shall they be gathered.


016.089
One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book EXPLAINING ALL THINGS, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.


018.054
AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE EXPLAINED IN THIS QURAN EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE, and man is most of all given to contention.(maybe I could convince you by quoting this ayat? But I doubt)



068.036
What has happened to you? How do you judge?
068.037
Or have you a book wherein you read,



Sorry brother, here is the rest of ayat for 5:48 but I don't see how it changes "so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed".

005.048
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;



You don't believe in Hadith but only Qur'an, why do you quote Hadith to support your argument?[/I]

To show you the obvious contradiction. 1 of many in the hadith. The biggest contradiction is how the prophet made a speech in khadir khum. We have three versions of 1:Quran, 2:Quran & Ehlulbayt 3: Quran and Sunnah. My point is you trust a book of contradictions!

Can you name me the sects in Islam this has caused? (Shia - sunni - sufi + subsects) Now read the following Quran ayat.


004.082
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.


042.013
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
.



Yaasin, 36: 3-4

3. Truly, you (O Muhammad) are one of the Messengers,
4. On a Straight Path (i.e. on Allah's religion of Islamic Monotheism).


The Prophet's Sunnah (Hadith) is a divine institution in Islam, and his sayings a divinely authorised interpretation of God's message. Qur'an at times very general, to interpret it one way is to refer to the hadith. Allah as accredited the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) that He (the Prophet - Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) is on straight path. How can the Prophet's saying, action and attributes which formed the Sunnah and Hadith contradicts Qur'an?

Al-Ma'idah, 5:92

And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad), and beware (of even coming near to drinking or gambling, etc.) and fear Allah. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.


Ho do you obey the Prophet? Qur'an never said silk garments is haraam for men, but the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited silk garments for men. You can only find this prohibition in the Hadith. Now will you obey?

An-Nahl, 16:8
8. And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys, for you to ride and as an adornment. And He creates (other) things of which you have no knowledge.

Do you eat donkey meat? Is it haraam? Does the above ayat specifically say donkey meat is haraam? How about horses meat? You can only find this in Hadith brother for specific answer and in the tafseer.


Hadith to me is a book of stories which may of or may not have happened back in the days which should be taken very lightly, but using it towards our religous way of living which Allah has already done in the Quran fully detailed (6:114) is just wrong..

And you can insult but when we pin point your shortcomings you said we are insulting you? Never mind you equating Hadith to a story book, perhaps yes a divine story book.

This is the verse you mentioned:

Al-An'aam, 6:114
[Say (O Muhammad)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Quran), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Torah and the Gospel] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt.


You should also look at below ayat:

Aal-'Imran, 3:164

Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur’an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur’an) and the Wisdom (of Prophethood), while before that they had been in manifest error.



What is "the Wisdom" here? The Prophet's Sunnah!!

From this ayat, Allah informed us the four functions of the Prophet of which 1) refers to the Qur'an, "reciting His revelations"; 2) "purifying", 3) "teaching the Book" and 4) "teaching Wisdom". These four functions have been described as the purpose for which God has sent the Messenger, and God's guidance to man will be fulfilled and completed by all and not by one only. All these functions are therefore part of God's guidance through the person of the Prophet.


I bear witness, there is no God but Allah
I bear witness, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.


You have to take oath on both the above statements to be a muslim. Do you have any dispute about that? Let me know.

I bear witness, there is no God but Allah

Anything somebody do that contradicts the above statement, he/she is a kaffir (May Allah protect us forever from kufr)
e.g. Qur'an is from Allah, any muslim reject even a single word from the Qur'an, this is kufr. (May Allah protect us forever from kufr)
I know, you believe Qur'an 100% in fact you only want to be guided with the Qur'an because you say so.
Allah says obey The Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), Qur'an 5:92, therefore this is part of your imaan.
Refusing to believe Him, His Sunnah is deemed disobeying the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), thus disobeying Allah.
Anyone disobey Allah is kufr. Anyone disobey the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) is kaffir.

I bear witness, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

Why you need to make this statement? Tell me why?
What is Messenger of Allah? What is his duty and what is his role?
If his duty just to let you know about Qur'an, then why you need a Messenger?
You can be the messenger also?

Anyone, do not believe in the Messengership of Prophet Muhammad (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), kufr.

The Prophet said he leave for the ummah two things, the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah, if anyone follow both he/she will never get lost from the truth.

I'm really, honestly afraid about you. Otherwise I do not want to waste time explaning to you. Pls understand. PM to me if you need further clarification.

The jews refused to obey Prophet Isa (peace be upon him) and rejected the Injeel. There was no mentioning in today's bible about a man called "St. Paul", whose original name was Saul of Tarsus. But who took his own authority and started preaching christianity according to his own liking.

Brother, the point I want to stress to you is, when people refused to are lost. Now you refused to recognise Hadith (the al-Hikmah) as divine same like the Qur'an, I'm afraid that you might be having a serious problem.


The Salat times is another big debate which can go on for ages....This is one of the things I had the hardest time excepting. I'm still trying to wash out of my head what my parents have nailed in. Insallah Allah can further help me open my mind..

As far as I know there is no big debate between those who follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah because the Prophet had taught us the right way to salat, to fast, toilet manners and he even taught how one's must behave to his neighour.


Quran and Salat times are all fully explained in this website as accordance with the Quran.
quran-islam.org
Let me firstly explain why Muslims pray 5 times a day. It is due to Sahih Al-Bukhari-Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345.

To keep the story nice and short, When Our prophet(Peace be upon him) met Allah in heaven, Allah ordered his people to pray 50 times a day. When passing by Moses(May peace be upon him), Moses told Muhammed 50 was too much for his people and that he should go back to Allah to reduce it. So, Muhammed(may peace be upon him)goes back and has Allah to agree to 5 times rather than 50?

HOW CAN YOU BARGAIN WITH GOD???? I can go on and on, but please read through that website. However get ready to put up your traditional shield as I did for about a year....


You believe in Qur'an right? You want to judge with Qur'an only right? Now tell me is the event mentioned by Qur'an below is false?

Al-Isra:
1. Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) [above all evil they associate with Him] Who took His slave (Muhammad) for a journey by night from the Sacred Mosque (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighbourhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him (Muhammad) of Our Signs. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.


Ok, let assuming you say you believe in it. What is the actually happen according to the ayat? How did The Prophet travel to Jerusalem?

Give your source which must be authentic (not websites).


Maybe start off doing ablution the way Allah intended in the Quran first before getting into Salat...?.

Al-Ma'idah, 5:6:
O you who believe! When you intend to offer the prayer, wash your faces and from your hands up to the elbows, wipe your heads, and wash your feet up to the ankles. If you are in a state of sexual impurity, purify yourself. But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women and you find no water, then perform tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful.



Tell me how do you do ablution the practical way, how many times do you wash your face, hands etc? Allah said wash from your hands to elbow, so do you wash start from your hands to elbow or from elbow to your hands. If someone do not have both hands up to elbow?

What type of waters you can use for ablution? Pls give me answer based on Qur'an only.


Now for the ayats that the duty of our prophet is only to deliver the message..
Aal-'Imran, 3:164

Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur’an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur’an) and the Wisdom (of Prophethood), while before that they had been in manifest error.



What is "the Wisdom" here? The Prophet's Sunnah!!

From this ayat, Allah informed us the four functions of the Prophet of which 1) refers to the Qur'an, "reciting His revelations"; 2) "purifying", 3) "teaching the Book" and 4) "teaching Wisdom". These four functions have been described as the purpose for which God has sent the Messenger, and God's guidance to man will be fulfilled and completed by all and not by one only. All these functions are therefore part of God's guidance through the person of the Prophet.

The above ayat may not applicable to you because you prefer to learn from websites only not Hadith


5.092: And obey Allah and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that only a clear deliverance of the message is (incumbent) on Our messenger.

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Nothing is (incumbent) on the Messenger but to deliver (the message), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.



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And We will either let you see part of what We threaten them with or cause you to die, for only the delivery of the message is (incumbent) on you, while calling (them) to account is Our (business).


024.054
Say: Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn back, then on him rests that which is imposed on him and on you rests that which is imposed on you; and if you obey him, you are on the right way; and nothing rests on the Messenger but clear delivering (of the message).


There are more ayats....but why should I continue to give you more than 1 proof of whats written in the Quran? Please brothers and sisters, open your eyes. Read the Quran in the language you understand best so the message is clear to you.

Only Allah can forbid things by specifically specifying it in the Quran....The following verse proves Hz Muhammed(Peace be upon him) was forgiven by Allah for forbidding himself which Allah did not.

066.001
O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
.


Good question. You quoted this ayat:

At-Tahrim, 6:1

1. O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


The explanation is with the next ayat:


2. Allah has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And Allah is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise.



Pls read my simple explanation on the function of a Messenger for Allah above. When Allah said "O Prophet!" is that means the ayat was directed to Him (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) or to His (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) ummah? Are you trying to insult the Prophet (Allah forbids, nauzubillah)??? I warn you from doing so.


Sorry but if I still cannot convince you to look further into Quran for answers....I give up. Any questions please feel free to PM me. If your planning on messaging me insults then don't bother, I won't reply to people who don't treat others with respect.

Peace to everyone. May Allah guide us all Insallah
.

We are the follower of Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, without a single doubt I believe 100% in Qur'an and as well as the Hadith. I agree, you will never convince me nor any of my brothers and sisters in this forum because all the explanation you gave based on your own nafs and by referring to certain websites. I'm not insulting you, if you feel so I tender my apology. But you are responsible what you have brought up. May I suggest again, find a good sheikh (pls don;t ask websites alone) and learn from him all over again. My intention is good, I daawah non muslim into Islam when possible. At the same times it is painful to see muslim side-tracked from the straight path.

May Allah guide you. Ameen.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
At-Tahrim, 66:1

1. O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Sorry, it should be chapter "66" verse 1 not "6" verse 1. Typo error.

Brother Izzy, pls refer link (a websites) for proper tafsir for the above ayat. Anything the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) is a blessings to His ummah.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=66&tid=54348
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Firstly, thank you for reading to all my reply. At least message delivered to you.

Well, I'm working now and managed to have a quick glance, no much time. Following caught my attention:

You quoted:

Aal-'Imran, 3:164
Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur’an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur’an) and the Wisdom (of Prophethood), while before that they had been in manifest error.
Your translating wisdom as hadith? The arabs back in the days were extreme in their ways, uneducated and had barbaric cultures.

Wisdom my friend means “The quality of being wise”. God talks about common sense throughout the Quran. These people had no sense in the way they did things. That’s why our prophet showed them how to be a better person. How is that talking about Hadith(Tradition), sunnah?
Unquote.

Look at the ayat that you quoted above again, you referred to dictionary for the translation because it is same with my dictionary. Look at the word wisdom again, do you see "wisdom or Wisdom"?

Following you did not answered and the rest I think you were just making a direct translation from Quranic verses without giving any source of reference or the tafseer:

How you make ablution? No logic here, daleel from Qur'an pls.

Quote
You have been told to use clean earth if you can't find water
Unquote


I did not asked for alternative. I asked you what kind of waters is allowed to use for ablution. Clean water?, A bucket of tea also a clean because you can drink it? Do not you common sense, provide daleel from Qur'an.

Israk Mikraj has a significant effect to muslim today because on this day salat was made fard. You explained to me based on the ayat I quoted how this incident took place.

The reason I asked about donkey meat because there was no direct mention in the Quran it is haraam. But you gave bad example e..g tiger meat? I think you are the best person to tell me is it haraam or not based on Qur'an, pls tell me. Elephant meat? Firstly, can you slaughter elephant? Not using chain-saw pls!!!

Qur'an: 5:3 "- unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death)"

I give you the honour to slaughter elephant if you can.

Agreed, Caliph Uthman r.a. is the one did compiled the Qur'an in written form that you have in your miseum today, I also would like to asked you pls go and do more research since when this was started. I dare to tell you this because I just completed my university lecture pertaining to this.

You said "I say Allah has sent us the Quran with all details (6:114)."

Fine, tell me Allah said in the Qur'an: 5:3 (continued from earlier ayat I quoted) "This day, I have perfected your religion for you....".

"This day"? What day? Can you tell me based on Qur'an daleel!

You can't use logical explanation or based what you think. It may look like very clear once you read the ayat but you firstly establish is there "al-asbab al-nuzul" i.e. the reason for the particular ayat was revealed. If yes, then where do you go for asbab al-nuzul? Is not in the Qur'an.

You said:

Quote:

I don't know why you would use the Quran verse from above when it proves me right?

And obey Allah and the Messenger…
Ofcourse people had to obey the messenger, who else knows the Quran best? How does this mean obey the hadith or sunnah? And the next sentence proves my point because the Messengers duty is only to warn us and guide us by the message(Quran).
...Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.
The message is the Quran incase you haven’t noticed? However I’ll prove myself again using the Quran…

3:7: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding
.


There you go, in the verse above it is very obvious the word message refers to the Holy Quran. However I've been giving you many verses from the Quran with straight forward meanings which you seem to always ignore, and continue to give me your opinion with no Quran verses to back up your theory.

Unquote

My friend, my friend. I believe both the Qur'an and Sunnah, otherwise, nauzbillah, I'm kaffir, nauzubillah. So I use daleel from Qur'an as well as Hadith. But you can only use daleel from Qur'an because you only believe in Qur'an.

Now, answer me this:

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. Qur'an: 33:21

How do you follow him my friend? Anything He (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) does, authorised and demonstrated through action are His Sunnah. So we follow, we obey the above ayat. A Messenger not only to deliver message and we obey also a good example for you and for me to follow, how do you know what to follow? Refer Hadith.

My friend al-Hadith like the Holy Qur'an initially was memorised by the companions and companions after them since Prophet's time. You are taking into count since it was booked only, this is biased. The Prophet prohibitted them to write down Hadith to avoid confusion with the Qur'an.

May Allah guide you my friend.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
My friend Izzy, pls also consider this:

Aal Imran, 3:164
164. Indeed, Allah conferred a great favor on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting unto them His verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them, and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah ﴿the wisdom and the Sunnah﴾, while before that they had been in manifest error.)

Source: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=484&Itemid=46


What is Al-Hikmah mentioned in the Qur'an:

Quote

Definitions of Al-Hikmah:
Some scholars like Imam Shafi'i interpret the word 'al-Hikmah' in verse 2:129 above as the Tradition or Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (p). Other scholars, such as the great Muslim scholar Ibn al-Qay'im al-Jawziyah in his book, Madarij al-Salikeen, defined 'al-Hikmah' scientifically and practically as follows:

Scientific Definition:
"Knowing and understanding the genuine nature of matters; the knowledge of relating results (effects) to causes as relevant to the physical composition and function of the matter, and with respect to Allah's natural law (qadarun) and revealed law (shar'an) regarding the matter."

Practical Definition:
"Doing what is required in the right manner, at the right time, and in the right place."

Source: http://www.islamic-study.org/wisdom_(al-hikmah).htm

Unquote

One of the greatest Islamic scholar, Imam Shafi'i said al-Hikmah refers to The Prophet's Sunnah (Hadith).

Look at scientific explanation: You have a verse from Qur'an, Allah say wash your face, hands etc during ablution. How do you know the correct way? Follow the Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings upon him) = Sunnah

Practical definition: I think same as above. How do you know right manner (e.g. how to do ablution), right time (e.g. time of prayers), right place (e.g. where do you start your tawaaf around kaabah?).
 

Nurain

Junior Member
Like sis a_Muslimah86 has said, this is a sunni UPON MANHAJ SALAFI WEBSITE. If you want to disagree, go see your sheikh. There's no room for argument about belittling the Prophet's hadith and sunnah here, WE ARE UPON QUR'AN AND SUNNAH and we will never think otherwise no matter what you conjure. The truth is only ONE there is no room AT ALL for any addition or deletion.

JazakAllaah khayr brother Hard Rock Moslem for the sound daleel all throughout,
 

Almeftah

Junior Member
:salam2:

Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 62 :: Hadith 53
Narrated Thabit Al-Banani:

I was with Anas while his daughter was present with him. Anas said, "A woman came to Allah's Apostle and presented herself to him, saying, 'O Allah's Apostle, have you any need for me (i.e. would you like to marry me)?' "Thereupon Anas's daughter said, "What a shameless lady she was ! Shame! Shame!" Anas said, "She was better than you; she had a liking for the Prophet so she presented herself for marriage to him."

She didnt ask to be his "Girlfriend" or "Mistress", So why not!!
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Sorry for the late reply. I’m really busy these days as I’m building my own place, and then work and family takes up most of my other time. Please excuse.


I’ll give you many rebuts about your Wisdom=Hadith theory....
.

That's ok, me too. I'm sorry to keep bugging you....correction, it is not my Wisdom = Hadith. I take the opinion of the Muslim scholar such as Imam Shafee rahmatullah.


Quote your reply

1. Wisdom is wisdom, please don't make this a debate. Words in lowercase and uppercase make no difference to their meanings.


Agreed, but not necessarily. There is a different my friend. Literally "turkey" means an animal look like bird but "Turkey" (upper case) is referring to your country. There is a different between the word "God" and god (referring false god). Anyway, you may say this is a bad example, up to you.

Quote your reply

2. Also, did it take an Islam Scholar to change the meaning of wisdom to Hadith?


They did not changed, will not change and nobody can change. Qur'an is preserved by by Allah (Qur'an: 15:9, 56:78). But the Scholar give an opinion (one of them was Imam Shafee) that the word "Wisdom" here Allah refers to the Prophet's Sunnah.

It is up to my friend, but you need to prove to me until I satisfy that the word "Wisdom" here is not referring to al-Hadith/Sunnah of the Prophet and likewise I've to prove to you that it is.

In al-Risala, Imam Shafee said majority of ulama agreed Sunnah is:

1) Qur'an legislation that the Prophet specified or elucidated
2) The Prophet's clarifications of ambiguities (having possible more than one meaning) or elucidated
3) Actions the Prophet performed that are not mentioned in the Qur'an.


I say it is referring to Hadith (I agree not all words appear as “Wisdom” some are referring to it’s literal meaning – “being wise”) based on what one of great Muslims scholar, Imam Shafee said based on his opinion like verse 4:113.

Also great scholars like Hassan al-Basri and Qatadah as narrated by Ibn Hatim and Ibn Jarir are having the same opinion. They are scholars, having spent their time and life doing research about the the deen, to make easy for the ummah. They are pious and learned Muslims, how can I disregard their opinion?


Quote your reply

A smart scientist came up with the theory of the human evolution....will you believe in that to? Plus I bet this guy also follows hadith as a source of Islam in the first place.


Needless to say, if their theory do not contradict Qur'an and Sunnah. But I will not believe a smart anti-hadith person like you.

Quote your reply

4. “bihee” at the end of the verse is mentioning a single thing not two. If Allah was referring to two things (Quran & Sunnah) then it would end with a “bihima”


5. ALSO AGAIN to prove my point using the Quran regarding the above(4).

36:2 : By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-

10:1 : A.L.R. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.

31:2: These are Verses of the Wise Book,


Well done, I'm not scholar and I don’t know Arabic, still in learning process. Certainly I can’t do tafsir on my own. Therefore I’ve to quote what the Hadith and scholars said.

Al Imam Asy Shafee has forewarned the Muslim ummah of such inevitable mistakes1,200 years ago in his monumentous book Ar Risalah. He says that interpreting the Quran without a good command of Arabic is a disaster waiting to happen. So I shall quote what the tafseer done by some great scholars:

Qur'an: 4:113:

Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Quran), and the Wisdom (of Prophethood), and taught you
that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad).


In the same book Imam Shafee giving his opinion that the word “al-Hikmah” in the above ayat is referring to the Sunnah.

In fact some of the translator put it in the bracket next to the word “the Wisdom” as “Prophethood” and some translator put it in bracket as "Sunnah". Allahu a'alam.


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7. Most importantly if wisdom was referring to hadith. Then the Quran contradicts itself by telling us it is fully detailed. I can tell you with confidence, the Quran has no contradictions.


Show me proof which al-Hadith (sahih Hadiths only) contradicts the Holy Qur'an?

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It looks like the scholar did NOT do enough research and went along with what he already believed in. I believe I have given you enough proof to now make this debate about wisdom no longer relevant.


You are giving me an imperession that you are better than the scholars, am I right? Not surprising because you also questioned the Prophet's credibility*(Allah forbids). The word "Wisdom" appears in many part of the Qur'an, I'm not saying all are referring to the Hadith, I believe whenever it appears as "...and the Wisdom" then it is refers to al-Hadith.

For below ayat, the meaning of "wisdom" or al-hikmah is not referring to al-Hadith but wisdom in it's literal meanings. I'm sure you know Arabic better than me.

Qur'an: 2.269
He grants wisdom to whom He pleases, and he, to whom wisdom is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.


Likewise, very interestingly according to my sheikh the word “hadith” appear in the Quranic text 18 times (e.g. 4:140, 6:68, 7:85, 18:6, 20:9) and the word “al-hadith” 5 times (12:6, 21, 101, 23:44, 34:19). Pls see the Arabic text of the Qur’an if the word not found in the translation.

But these are not referring to Prophet’s Hadith.


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How you make ablution? No logic here, daleel from Qur'an pls.

I’ve already given you the steps earlier. Quran tells you simply wash your face, then wash your arms to the elbow, and WIPE your head, and wash your feet. No number just clean it. Is it so difficult? I'm not a rocket scientist. If I can follow these basic steps so can you. You want more information because there are steps missing from what you practice today. I'm telling you that is all there is. Why do you continue debating this with me trying to bring difficulty in a basic task? Continue reading the verse...

5:6...
...Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.


Even a rocket scientist need to follow the Prophet mind you otherwise. Otherwise you will not have rocket scientist are suppose to be genius but they choose to be kaffir. I believe my ablution is perfect, nothing missing because I do ablution like how the Prophet do. Thank you for pointing out a beautiful ayat.


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Below is an Ablution example in the Hadith....just one version of many others!!! Which is also different to what most Muslims do today again.

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 196:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid:
Once Allah's Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus: He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).


Below Hadiths are the practical proof to the verse 5:6 of the Qur'an that you have quoted. The Prophet had made it easy for you and me by showing the example how to perform ablution without feel any burden.

Ibn Abbas r.a. reported:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once

Abdullah bin Zaid r.a. reported:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.

In another hadith, Abdullah bin Zaid r.a. reported:

Once Allah's Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus: He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).

- All are taken from Sahih Bukhari.


The Prophet showed to us that you can wash once, twice or trice and few more Hadith shows the Prophet washed thrice. So majority of scholars encourage you to wash thrice, if this is wrong you will agree with me that Allah would have rebuked the Prophet!!! Is it so? You can wash only once (if you are confident perfectly done) or twice. But you know the shyaitaan's whispers are so strong, you may have this "was-was"... did you washed correctly or not...so when you do three times there is no room for "was-was". This is just an option. For a layman like me, I need this hadith to back-up me if Allah question me why wash three times? Qur'an did not explicitly tell you how to do ablution which was the Prophet’s duties to show you.


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Book 1, Number 0066:
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:

The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

Hmmm, I think I’ll stick to my common sense and use reasonably clean water, if not land. Dead dogs? YUK.


Perhaps you have intended to insult, do not mock your own religion if you are a Muslim.

You just open the flood gates for more questions on ablution. That's why I'm asking, when you are in the situation like that, you have water but you have this things inside, can you do ablution? Qur'an may not have told you in details but the Hadith will show you the middle path in certain situation. What is the size of that well and amount of water in that well? You need to find out my friend.

In verse 7:157, the Prophet’s role is also to enact and legislates law by legalizing what is legal and prohibiting what is prohibited. This is Islamic Fiqh, I do not want to go into details at this point.

No water you can do tayammum (refer Holy Qur'an 4:43), but in prison you are not given water and no earth for tayammum, what is the next option?
Are you excused from performing the salat in the first place?

I'm going back to my original question, tell me from the Qur'an type of water you can use for ablution? I going to press of an answer from you until you give a an answer from a reliable source. I can’t stop you if you choose to ignore this question.

continued...
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother

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The reason I asked about donkey meat because there was no direct mention in the Quran it is haraam. But you gave bad example e..g tiger meat?

I asked what the hadith writes about eating tiger meat? It wasn’t an example it was a question. However I managed to get a common sense answer from you about eating elephant meat. (can you slaughter elephant? Not using chain-saw pls!!!).

However, I was reading through the Quran at night from where I left off last night, and thanks to Allah I saw something you may be pleased with.



There are Hadiths about type of animals that you can consume as food, it is self explanatory whether tiger can eat or can not eat.

I wanted to show you proof that you may need Hadith to interpret some of the ayat of the Qur'an, example on the donkeys' meat, unfortunately you are so narrow minded and can't see the bigger picture. I never said you can't rely on common sense, you shall not rely on common sense alone, that's what I will say. You can not interpret Qur'an based on your common sense alone my friend. That's what I'm saying. You can only eat animals that you can slaughter except fish and other type of seafood. If I rely on common sense like you do, then tiger’s meat is allowed because you can slaughter them. The Prophet had further interpreted and explained type of animals that are allowed to be consumed and are not allowed to be consumed. We hear, we obey in line with following Qur'anic verse:

Qur'an: 59:7,
And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.


Tell, can you find everything that the Prophet forbids you in the Qur'an?

Tafseer Ibn Kathir for the above ayat (59:7):

Ordering Obedience of the Messenger in All Commands and Prohibitions
Allah the Exalted said,

[وَمَآ ءَاتَـكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَـكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُواْ]

(And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it).) meaning, `whatever the Messenger commands you, then do it and whatever he forbids you, then avoid it. Surely, He only commands righteousness and forbids evil.' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "Allah curses women who practice tattooing and those who get themselves tattooed, and the women who remove the hair from their eyebrows and faces and those who make artificial spaces between their teeth in order to look more beautiful, whereby changing Allah's creation.'' His statement reached a woman from Bani Asad called, Umm Ya`qub, who came to `Abdullah and said, "I have come to know that you have cursed such and such'' He replied, "Why should I not curse those whom Allah's Messenger has cursed and who are cursed in Allah's Book!'' Umm Ya`qub said, "I have read the whole Qur'an, but did not find in it what you say.'' He said, "Verily, if you have read the Qur'an, you have found it. Didn't you read,

[وَمَآ ءَاتَـكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَـكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُواْ]

(And whatsoever the Messenger gives you take it and whatsoever he forbids you, you abstain (from it).)'' She replied, "Yes, I did.'' He said, "Verily, Allah's Messenger forbade such things. '' "She said, "But I think that your wife does these things'' He said, "Go and look at her.'' She went and watched her, but could not see anything in support of her claim. She went back to `Abdullah bin Mas`ud and said that she did not notice anything on his wife. On that he said, "If my wife was as you thought, I would not keep her with me.'' The Two Sahihs recorded this from the Hadith of Sufyan Ath-Thawri. As well as a Hadith of Abu Hurayrah, who said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«إِذَا أَمَرْتُكُمْ بِأَمْرٍ فَائْتُوا مِنْهُ مَا اسْتَطَعْتُمْ، وَمَا نَهَيْتُكُمْ عَنْهُ فَاجْتَنِبُوه»

(When I order you to do something, then do as much as you can of it. If I forbid something for you, then shun it.)



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36:72: And that We have subjected them to their (use)? of them some do carry them and some they eat:

But is not Haram to eat. Because Allah would not have left it out when mentioning swine. However using logic and as the Quran verse states above, they need these animals to ride, so why kill and eat something which can be useful? And what I love most about the verse is how it generalises about the animals we use to carry. Which include donkeys, horses, camels, elephents etc.You see my friend, Quran does have answers, but most Muslims look at hadith’s because they think the Quran is insufficient. That is the power of Allahs words. He uses a simple line to explain what us people(hadith) will manage by many sentences, and still cause debates.



“But is not Haram to eat….” Referring to donkey meat? You are now going against below verse of the Qur’an:

Qur'an: 59:7,
And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.


There are Hadiths in which the Prophet forbids eating donkey meat. You are saying it is not haraam therefore you are not in compliance to verse 59:7.

Exactly, "the power of Allah's words". How can ordinary person like you and me interpret Qur'an without the guidance of Allah's Messenger and how can we do not rely on scholars? I believe in Qur'an, you believe in Qur'an but still cause debate among both of us, why? No Muslim will say Qur'an is insufficient, al-Hadith is there to support Qur'an not to discredit Qur'an.


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" You said "I say Allah has sent us the Quran with all details (6:114)."

Fine, tell me Allah said in the Qur'an: 5:3 (continued from earlier ayat I quoted) "This day, I have perfected your religion for you....".This day, I have perfected your religion for you....".

Just a note, your not going against me here (6:114) your going against the QURAN. I did not say/write/add verse 6:114. That was already apart of the message(Quran). Remember when debating the point with me, your debating against the verses made clear in the Holy Quran by Allah.



I beg to differ. I repeat, believe in Qur'an as well as the Sunnah. But Qur'an says "This day...", the narration are found in the Hadith explained "This day" refers to what day, when it happened and where it happened. This is what my sheikh said "Asbab al-Nuzul". But not all ayat do have "Asbab al-Nuzul". Debating with you is not debating against the verses, if that's is the case, let me tell you that debating and questioning about the status of hadith in Islam is akin to questing the Messengership of Prophet Muhammad salallah wa'alaihi wasallam. This will put your imaan to test my friend.

Again you quote verse 6:114 from the Holy Qur’an. I obey what the Qur’an said, let’s look at the ayat again:

Qur’an 6:114
[Say (O Muhammad)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Quran), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Torah and the Gospel] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt.

and I also obey what the Qur’an said in another verse below:

Qur’an 4:65

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.

Qur’an 4:59

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.


How do you refer to the Messenger now if not through hadith?


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5:3 :This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion
If you continued abit further in the verse as I have above. You will see Allah has perfected our religion by choosing Islam as our religion.
I can’t see sunnah/tradition....even al-hakim is missing?
While on the subject...... is the word Sunnah even used in the Quran at all???
When you said you want the day? Do you mean the date? If so why? Why does it matter so much? The Quran is not a diary my friend.



Good question. Again, you can't even understand what I mean to say, how are you going to interpret Qur'an verse by verse without relying on hadith and scholars? I'm so sorry if my English is bad, it is not my mother's tongue so bear with me.

My friend, I just gave you an example Quranic verse where you need some interpretation but you can't find it in the Qur'an!!! Sometime Quranic verses will interpret itself through other verses. But sometime you can't find the interpretation anywhere in the Qur'an from other verses so you refer the next source which is al-Hadith. It does matter to me and many others "This day" refers to what day, maybe not for you.

Let’s see the asbah al-Nuzul for ayat 5:3:

(This day have I perfected your religion for you…) [5:3]. This verse was revealed on Friday, on the Day of ‘Arafah, at the farewell pilgrimage, after ‘Asr prayer in the tenth year of the Hijrah while the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, was present in ‘Arafat on the back of his camel al-‘Adba’. ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Hamdan al-‘Adl informed us> Ahmad ibn Ja‘far al-Qati‘i> ‘Abd Allah ibn Ahmad> his father> Ja‘far ibn ‘Awn> Abu ‘Umays> Qays ibn Muslim> Tariq ibn Shihab who said: “A Jewish man went to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be well pleased with him, and said: ‘O leader of the believers, you recite one verse in your Scripture which, if it had been revealed to us, we would have taken the day in which it was revealed as a day of celebration’. ‘Which verse is this?’ asked ‘Umar. He said: ‘It is (This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you…)’. ‘Umar said: ‘By Allah, I know the day in which it was revealed to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, and the hour in which it was revealed to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and his family and give him peace. It was revealed on Friday, in the afternoon of the day of ‘Arafah’ ”. This was narrated by Bukhari from al-Hasan ibn Sabah and also by Muslim from ‘Abd ibn Humayd, and Ibn Sabah and Ibn Humayd related it from Ja‘far ibn ‘Awn. Al-Hakim Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Shadhyakhi informed us> Zahir ibn Ahmad> al-Husayn ibn Nuhammad ibn Mus‘ab> Yahya ibn Hakim> Abu Qutaybah> Hammad> ‘Ammar ibn Abi ‘Ammar: “Ibn ‘Abbas recited this verse in the presence of a Jewish man, and the latter said: ‘If this verse was revealed to us, we would have taken the day in which it was revealed as a celebration day’. Ibn ‘Abbas said: ‘Well, it was revealed in two days of celebration which coincided with each other: it was a Friday which coincided with the day of ‘Arafah’ ”.

Again, you will need to refer to the tafseer and hadith sahih to know what is the asbab al-Nuzul for the above ayat. Hadith explains what is Qur’an saying.


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You mentioned verse 33:21
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. Qur'an: 33:21


I believe we have already discussed this and I have proven to you from the Quran verses(5:48,5:92,64:12) that the only requirement of the prophet is to deliver the message. Our prophet is obviously the best example as he knows the Quran best. I don’t wish to go back to the topic we already covered. We are now going around in circles.



Tafseer Ibn Kathir on the above ayat 33:21 as follows:
The Command to follow the Messenger
This Ayah is an important principle, to follow the Messenger of Allah in all his words, and deeds, etc. Hence Allah commanded the people to take the Prophet as an example on the day of Al-Ahzab, with regard to patience, guarding, striving and waiting for Allah to provide the way out; may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him forever, until the Day of Judgement. Allah says to those who were anxious and impatient and were shaken by feelings of panic on the day of Al-Ahzab:
[لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ]
(Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow) meaning, `why do you not take him as an example and follow his lead' Allah says:
[لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الاٌّخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيراً]
(for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.)



No one in his sound mind could imagine that the Prophet had lived and died without saying a word or doing anything except reciting the Qur'an.

I agree one of the duties of Messenger of Allah is to deliver the message. If I understand correctly, you are try to imply that He (the Prophet SAW) just came to you and deliver the message without showing the example how to act based on the message, e.g. let say He told you, "Allah has asked you to pray 5 times day and night" and left you with this message given to you? Doesn't He needs to also show you how to pray, when to pray and what are the do and don't in prayers etc?

The fact that we are so emphatically urged to emulate the example of the behaviour of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, definitely assumes that there must be records of his action and words, the total of which makes up the Hadith. It also means that his actions and words of wisdom have the authority and power to be enforced. If he was only to deliver the Holy Quran and nothing else, how could he be a model for the ummah? Denial of the Hadith and rejection of its authority is tantamount to the rejection of the Quranic teaching which urges us to take him as a model to be followed.

Now Allah mentioned in the Qur'an as follows:

Qur'an: 59:7,
And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.

How do you know what the Messenger "gives you" and those that "he forbids you"?? I know you are going to say his duty is "to deliver message" so the rest is story book.

In verse 7:157, the Prophet’s role is also to enact and legislates law by legalizing what is legal and prohibiting what is prohibited.


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Lets look at the History shall we...
Prophet passed away 632
First Quran Compiled (less than 20 years after the prophets death)
First Hadith compiled 230 years after the prophets death.....

Why 210 years after Quran was compiled, and available. If the hadith was second important to the Quran, people should have started to compile the hadith straight after the Quran. Also to note, the Quran scriptures was written and put together before a standard was chosen by uthman. So the time frame I’m giving you is actually being very generous in the hadiths favour, even though it still does no justice. I wouldn’t even continue this discussion if I were you.



Didn't I tell you that I agree Uthman r.a. was the first one compiled the Qur'an that we have today? But I did also tell you that the compilation actually started from the Prophet SAW time in fact He the Prophet SAW personally supervised to make sure the verses are put together according to the order. The arrangement of the verses order was done by the Prophet via inspiration and wahi. The original manuscript which was was kept by Hafsa r.a.h (the wife of the Prophet and daughter of Umar r.a.

Quote:
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims. Unquote.

Source: http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm

Later on the signs and marks was added into the Qur'an because the original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have those signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. For the Arabs at that point of time they do not have problem reciting Qur'an like we do today without this marking in the Qur'an but for the non Arabs they do have problem. So the signs was introduced. Pls refer:

Source: http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm


Let’s rest to issue for a while as I’m more interested to proof Hadith is a revelation and you must follow them.


On compilation of Hadith, short sighted and very bad answer again.

Since the time of the Prophet, there were Hadith compilations in writing, although in the beginning, most of the Prophet's Companions were reluctant to record the Hadith in writing because of their concern for being confused with the Holy Qura'n (remember in early script there was not marks, signs). The Hadiths were preserved by heart of the Prophet's Companions who heard them and saw the actions of the Prophet at first hand. They handed them over, mainly orally, to the succeeding generations both for application and inspiration.

Qur'an 53:3-4;
"He does not speak out of his own desire, but it is revelation revealed"

Can you explain the above ayat? Don't it imperative that what the Prophet (SAW) said is guided by wahi, and what He said becomes as-Sunnah, narration recorded as al-Hadith.

Let see the tafseer by Ibn Kathir:

Muhammad was sent as a Mercy for all that exists; He does not speak of His Desire
Allah said,
[وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى ]
(Nor does he speak of desire), asserting that nothing the Prophet utters is of his own desire or wish,
[إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ وَحْىٌ يُوحَى ]
(It is only a revelation revealed.), means, he only conveys to the people what he was commanded to convey, in its entirety without additions or deletions. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said that he heard the Messenger of Allah say,
«لَيَدْخُلَنَّ الْجَنَّةَ بِشَفَاعَةِ رَجُلٍ لَيْسَ بِنَبِيَ مِثْلُ الْحَيَّيْنِ أَوْ مِثْلُ أَحَدِ الْحَيَّيْنِ رَبِيعَةَ وَمُضَر»
(Verily, numbers similar to the two tribes, or one of them, Rabi`ah and Mudar, will enter Paradise on account of the intercession of one man, who is not a Prophet.) A man asked, "O Allah's Messenger! Is not Rabi`ah a subtribe of Mudar.'' The Prophet said,
«إِنَّمَا أَقُولُ مَا أَقُول»
(I said what I said.) Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin `Amr said, "I used to record everything I heard from the Messenger of Allah so it would be preserved. The Quraysh discouraged me from this, saying, `You record everything you hear from the Messenger of Allah , even though he is human and sometimes speaks when he is angry' I stopped recording the Hadiths for a while, but later mentioned what they said to the Messenger of Allah , who said,

«اكْتُبْ، فَوَ الَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ مَا خَرَجَ مِنِّي إِلَّا الْحَق»

(Write! By He in Whose Hand is my soul, every word that comes out of me is the Truth.)'' Abu Dawud also collected this Hadith.

[عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَى - ذُو مِرَّةٍ فَاسْتَوَى - وَهُوَ بِالاٍّفُقِ الاٌّعْلَى - ثُمَّ دَنَا فَتَدَلَّى - فَكَانَ قَابَ قَوْسَيْنِ أَوْ أَدْنَى - فَأَوْحَى إِلَى عَبْدِهِ مَآ أَوْحَى - مَا كَذَبَ الْفُؤَادُ مَا رَأَى - أَفَتُمَـرُونَهُ عَلَى مَا يَرَى - وَلَقَدْ رَءَاهُ نَزْلَةً أُخْرَى - عِندَ سِدْرَةِ الْمُنتَهَى - عِندَهَا جَنَّةُ الْمَأْوَى - إِذْ يَغْشَى السِّدْرَةَ مَا يَغْشَى - مَا زَاغَ الْبَصَرُ وَمَا طَغَى - لَقَدْ رَأَى مِنْ ءَايَـتِ رَبِّهِ الْكُبْرَى ]


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Practical definition: I think same as above. How do you know right manner (e.g. how to do ablution), right time (e.g. time of prayers), right place (e.g. where do you start your tawaaf around kaabah?).

Brother, the required details your after are all in the Quran, we are continuously repeating and then further extending our debate with extra things. Me, and to my discovery many Muslims are living by Allah’s Law by the Quran. Alot of people have discovered what and how Allah wants us to do things according to the Quran only. I can do it, many others can do it. So why is it so hard for you or anyone else?

Prayer times are explained in the Quran by the sun position, analog clocks were not available back then.. Ablution manner? Seriously? Will you do ablution by having a water fight? No, it seems though now your looking for ways to try and find a loophole here, how about just excepting the basic ablution steps in the Quran. Next you’re going to ask me if the water should be cold/warm or hot. Again below is the continuation of the verse of ablution instructions. It’s almost like Allah knew people will complicate ablution.
5:6......Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.



Sorry to say, bad answer. Prayer times are explained in the Qur'an, yes but not explicitly!

Qur'an: 33:21,
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

The above ayat is very clear, Allah asked you to follow the example of the Prophet, you can't follow me and I can't follow your way because we both are having a lot of shortcomings and we are not guided with wahi. To tell you in crude manner, you and I are together a great sinner. We can follow whatever the Prophet (unless there is specific instruction in the Qur'an forbids example men may marry up to 4 max) said, did and allowed it because He is ma'asum. The best prayer is the prayer of the Prophet so here we go, follow the Prophet. But for you it is a story book, astafirullah.

Pls explain just based on Qur’an:

How you raise you hands to begin the salat?
What do you say in your salat?
Tell me how many rak'at in each salat as per Qur'an?
How many times you ruku' and sujood as per Qur'an?


Quote your reply

The tawaaf around the kaaba is given in many verses some are.( 2:125, 2:189, 2:158, 2:196, 2:197 etc) As I’ve said before all details are in the Quran, anything extra not mentioned is not required. I’m sorry but the argument has become way too long. I would love to type 20pages of details but it’s now becoming abit too long. I promise you all you need is the Quran, as Allah sais he has given us all examples in detail, but people can make it complicated...



Bad answer again. “Anything extra not mentioned is not required”???

You quoted some Quranic verses, but how many times do you tawaaf the al-Kaaba and is it clock wise or anti-clock wise?

Good you point out verses 2.158 and 2.196, Allah mentioned about umra. What is the different between Hajj and Umra based on Qur'an?

Verses 2:189 and 2:197, in which month of Islamic calendar do you performed Hajj? Sorry, is it mentioned in the Qur'an the name of that month? So far what I know (pls correct me) only the month of Ramadhan is mentioned in the Qur'an. So pls enlighten me. Allah did mentioned as follows:

Qur’an 2:189
They ask you (O Muhammad) about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for humankind and for the pilgrimage. It is not righteousness that you enter the houses from the back but righteousness (is the quality of the one) who fears Allah. So enter houses through their proper doors, and fear Allah that you may be successful.

Qur’an 2:197
The Hajj is (in) the well-known months. So whosoever intends to perform Hajj therein should not have sexual relations, nor commit sin, nor dispute unjustly during the Hajj. And whatever good you do, Allah knows it. And take provision for the journey, but the best provision is piety. So fear Me, O men of understanding!

But still not explicitly mentioned which month right? So you need other source to interpret!!


When you are summoned to the court of law (let's take civil court for an example), you will require a civil lawyer to represent you especially when you are not well versed with the terminology of the law. The lawyers are the one interpret them for you and try to defend you in the court unless you are a lawyer. Even a lawyer will engage another lawyer sometime to represent him. If man made law you will required someone with the skill to interpret the law, I do not know why you do not need the Prophet to interpret and to show by examples (Sunnah) how they are being executed unless again, if you think you and your cult are same level with the knowledge of the the Prophet (Allah forbids) and scholars.

Let's talk about shariah law now, Holy Qur'an did mention about inheritance and distribution the wealth of a deceased. In the following circumstances, how do you solve the distribution based on Qur'an alone:
(a) The wife is to die leaving behind her husband, 3 daughters, and the wife's parents are both alive.
(b) The husband is to die, his wife had already died, but he has only ONE daughter, and the husband's mother is still living.
(c) The wife is to die. She has NO children but she leaves behind her husband, and she has TWO sisters.


Qur’an 5:38,

Cut off the hand of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. And Allah is All Powerful, All Wise.

Two question, pls answer me:

1) Which part of the hand and right hand or left hand?
2) How much, in value, if someone steal should be punish as above?


Quote your reply


Anyway brother, I’ve enjoyed our discussion here, but as I said the answers are all in the Quran. You need to open your mind and search. I pray everyday for Allah to show me the right way, and I am here today believing in only Quran. I also have many beautiful dreams every now and then which I doubt I can see if I was Kafir. Insallah Allah guides us all in the right path.



I enjoyed it too because through you I've new experience debating with an anti-Hadith though I may not be successful to make you realise that you are on the wrong track. I do not have any bad feelings against you my friend and accept my apology if I offended you in anyway. The reason I've to be harsh on you because you repeatedly attack Holy Prophet Muhammad salallah alaihi wasallam. I hope you will realise that you do not have any moral standing to question the Prophet and His Sunnah. You mentioned that the Prophet's Hadith as like a story book, what kind of Muslim are you? Are you telling me you are so perfect in the religion that you do not need the Prophet to guide you how to pray (refusing his Sunnah)? Are telling me you are so confident you will enter jannah without the need of His syafa'at later?

To summarise, you still have not fulfill the requirement of our shahadah especially the second part the the shahadah. Pls be aware there is not such thing called half Muslim. Having said all that, I leave to your own wisdom (lowercase ok) and it is entirely up to you whether you want to believe in the al-Hadith or not. At the end of the day, I've tried my best to explain to you. May Allah guide you my friend.

I bring up to your attention following verses from the Holy Qur’an for you to read, understand and be warn. Pls ask learned scholars for proper tafseer and be guided with it and with hope Allah will open your mind:


Qur’an 3:32

Say (O Muhammad): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad)." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.

Qur’an 4.14

And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment.


Qur’an 4:59

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.


Qur’an 4:64
We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave. If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to themselves, had come to you (Muhammad) and begged Allah's Forgiveness, and the Messenger had begged forgiveness for them: indeed, they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who accepts repentance), Most Merciful.

Qur’an 4:65

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.


Qur’an 5:92

And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad), and beware (of even coming near to drinking or gambling, etc.) and fear Allah. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.


Qur’an 8:24

O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life, and know that Allah comes in between a person and his heart (i.e. He prevents an evil person to decide anything). And verily to Him you shall (all) be gathered.


Qur’an 24:51

The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah (His Words, the Quran) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: "We hear and we obey." And such are the prosperous ones (who will live forever in Paradise).




Allahu a'alam.
 

mufakkir

Junior Member
Salaam Alaikum brothers and sisters (and Izzy!)

Apologies to the first poster who has seen his post digress beyond recognition. May Allah reward all of you who have replied to the deviations from Izzy. He has recently registered and so far all his posts seems to have been on this thread. Alhamdulillah you efforts will not go to waste, though i fear that we may be dealing with a Dall wa Mudill.
In any case, Izzy, if you are genuine and do wish to learn, then inshaAllah learn this:

If you do some searches on the internet you will find many websites that advocate this relatively new ideology, that Islam is simply Quran and nothing else. If you do your research properly you will also find that these sites and groups are supported by many Western organisations and Institutions becasue they believe that if you can sever the Principle sources of Islam, which are Quran and Sunnah into just Quran, you will be left with a form of Islam that is simply a belief with no practical influence on people's lives. EVERY single injuction in the Quran is understood my Muslims THROUGH the Hadith (Sunnah). Take this away and you are left with a map but no guide. This is what the enemis of Islam want and is one of the new strategies they have employed since 9/11. The details of these and other strategies are open for all to see and if YOU want to see them, google RAND report, inshaAllah.

Was Salaam
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
If you do your research properly you will also find that these sites and groups are supported by many Western organisations and Institutions becasue they believe that if you can sever the Principle sources of Islam, which are Quran and Sunnah into just Quran, you will be left with a form of Islam that is simply a belief with no practical influence on people's lives. EVERY single injuction in the Quran is understood my Muslims THROUGH the Hadith (Sunnah). Take this away and you are left with a map but no guide. This is what the enemis of Islam want and is one of the new strategies they have employed since 9/11. The details of these and other strategies are open for all to see and if YOU want to see them, google RAND report, inshaAllah.

Was Salaam

Brother mufakkir,

Last week I bought a book written by students graduated from University al-Azhar. The book was about Freemasonary, zionisme and other enemies of Islam. It was well written and I believe the students really spent time to do research and google around for authentic sources and references. I can't find any contradictory statement made by this students so far.

After half way through, I realised what you said above is very very true. I was so scared and worried what going to happen to the Muslim ummah (Izzy included). One of the system used by Freemason is to create fake and deviated Muslim groups such as those anti-Hadith. Apparently they also moved into Muslim community and pretend to be Muslims themselves and from within they mislead the ummah.

We can only pray and make du'a for Allah to guide and sustain our imaan strong and solid like hard rocks inshAllah.
 

mufakkir

Junior Member
Brother mufakkir,

Last week I bought a book written by students graduated from University al-Azhar. The book was about Freemasonary, zionisme and other enemies of Islam. It was well written and I believe the students really spent time to do research and google around for authentic sources and references. I can't find any contradictory statement made by this students so far.

After half way through, I realised what you said above is very very true. I was so scared and worried what going to happen to the Muslim ummah (Izzy included). One of the system used by Freemason is to create fake and deviated Muslim groups such as those anti-Hadith. Apparently they also moved into Muslim community and pretend to be Muslims themselves and from within they mislead the ummah.

We can only pray and make du'a for Allah to guide and sustain our imaan strong and solid like hard rocks inshAllah.

Salaam,

What is the name of this book and who are the authors?

was salaam
 
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