White Muslims

[BrotherInIslam7]

That's intersting that you've seen that because some of the most offensive comments I've received have been from Muslim from the Southeast Asian continent. Every Indo/Pak I've met felt very strongly against marrying their son/daughter to someone not of their background, my husband's family is no exception.

My husband went against his parent's wishes after two years of trying to convince them that there was nothing "Wrong" with me because I am not Pakistani. And last time I went to visit his family they requested I not accompany him to the mechanic's because they didn't want him (Pakistani mechanic) to know their son married a "guri."

Salaamalaykum sister,

I am sorry to hear about the unfortunate encounters that you have had with other muslim sisters.

I would like to put my 2 cents on the bold quoted part. I hope you don't get offended though.

Our religion does not permit us to make superficial boundaries among ourself and discriminate on grounds of ethnicity, nationality, race etc.

But when it comes to marriage, I can understand why parents would want their son to marry someone from their culture. People from Indian subcontinent have only in the recent past began to settle in other countries and marrying outside the culture is something very unusual.

From the parents point of view, if their daughter in law is from the same culture or tribe, it is more easier for them to get adjusted with her and viceversa. There are many duties and customs that a daughter in law from the same culture would easily perform rather than some one from outside.

Also, the parents sometimes fear that their sons have for the moment not paid attention to marrying someone within their our culture, but would later suffer because it would lead to differences in raising children and other aspects of life.

I know that a very common reply to such an opinion is well " I am marrying their son, not them ". But it doesn't work that way. The daughter in law comes in to the family and has responsibilities towards her spouse's parents, siblings and extended family as well. And someone who is from outside the culture, it would be very hard on the person to adjust as well at the same time the parents.

Also we should note that Jabir RadiAllahu anh married an elderly woman so that his spouse could take care of his 7 (or 9) small sisters as his parents had passed away. And when he informed the Prophet (PBUH), the Prophet (PBUH) replied " You have done well " and gave him his approval that he had married while taking in to consideration the situation in his household, when he could have very well married a younger beautiful woman.

I hope this doesn't cause offense to anybody. I am just trying to share an opinion that I understand quite well from my own upbringing and background. There is always not a sinister reason like racism, prejudice etc when parents want their sons/daughters to get married within their culture. After all, parents love their offspring and care more than anyone else can.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

I have limited experience, but I didn't notice any difference toward me (I am American Indian and European decent with Caucasian features such as blue eyes and freckles). The Muslim population is very diverse. The average person in my small town doesn't know the difference between a Muslim, Sikh, or Hindu or for that matter a Christian woman who wears a head covering. I felt very welcome at the Mosque.

:salam2:

That's great to hear brother, Masha'Allah. I hope you get to taste the sweetness of the muslim brotherhood for a long long time, it is something amazing.

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaamalaykum sister,

I am sorry to hear about the unfortunate encounters that you have had with other muslim sisters.

I would like to put my 2 cents on the bold quoted part. I hope you don't get offended though.

Our religion does not permit us to make superficial boundaries among ourself and discriminate on grounds of ethnicity, nationality, race etc.

But when it comes to marriage, I can understand why parents would want their son to marry someone from their culture. People from Indian subcontinent have only in the recent past began to settle in other countries and marrying outside the culture is something very unusual.

From the parents point of view, if their daughter in law is from the same culture or tribe, it is more easier for them to get adjusted with her and viceversa. There are many duties and customs that a daughter in law from the same culture would easily perform rather than some one from outside.

Also, the parents sometimes fear that their sons have for the moment not paid attention to marrying someone within their our culture, but would later suffer because it would lead to differences in raising children and other aspects of life.

I know that a very common reply to such an opinion is well " I am marrying their son, not them ". But it doesn't work that way. The daughter in law comes in to the family and has responsibilities towards her spouse's parents, siblings and extended family as well. And someone who is from outside the culture, it would be very hard on the person to adjust as well at the same time the parents.

Also we should note that Jabir RadiAllahu anh married an elderly woman so that his spouse could take care of his 7 (or 9) small sisters as his parents had passed away. And when he informed the Prophet (PBUH), the Prophet (PBUH) replied " You have done well " and gave him his approval that he had married while taking in to consideration the situation in his household, when he could have very well married a younger beautiful woman.

I hope this doesn't cause offense to anybody. I am just trying to share an opinion that I understand quite well from my own upbringing and background. There is always not a sinister reason like racism, prejudice etc when parents want their sons/daughters to get married within their culture. After all, parents love their offspring and care more than anyone else can.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

Asalaam Aleakum,

See that's where their ignorance of my background is showing, I come from an extremely conservative background where the females "marry into" the man's family. The female is basically now part of his family and has responsibility to her in-laws. But they didn't know that about me due to my skin color...so certain prejudices were in place.

It still doesn't explain why they are still ashamed of the fact that their son married a white convert. I have worked very hard to be an obediant duaghter-in-law but they are caught up on my skin color and can't get past it. It appears that regardless of my efforts to learn their culture and language it will never be good enough since I have pale skin and blue eyes. But in the end it's their problem and not mine. Our children will be raised as Muslims (insh'Allah) and that's all that matters.

Wasalaam

 

[abulzan07]

:salam2:
@sister shy hijabi

I have read all you have said I totally agree with you that Asians are sick when its come to there culture and most asians dont follow true teaching of Islam they follow what thr culture say or there asian Imam say....I honestly hate this even being from asian background but Wallahi i dont care what color or ethniticity a person is our identity is that we are muslims thats it ......Even when i try to explain things like this to my family i struggled they just wanna do what they got from ancestory and culture they dont wanna change even if you prove them wrong......but Allahamdullilah sumaAllahamdullilah Allah got me too such lovely place liverpool where i have seen people from al over the world we got people from 44 nationality no one cares whch color you are we all luv and respect each other for sake of Allah and we have so many reverts who came from far away place an hour journey in car but they all say we luv the enviornment and way people care for each other in this mosque we go to other but dont find this and they all love coming to our mosque ...even i got relative in manchesta london but i wil never move with them as i hate asian cultural version of Islam......

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

It hurts so much when we are rejected by our own brothers and sisters in Islam. When we congregate at the masjid it is to celebrate being amongst the Believers. And when they display discomfort from our presence it can send us into a tizzy.
What many do not understand is our revert sisters left the duyna to come to the Right Path. It is so tempting for them to return to the luxury of the duyna.
I hope our sisters understand that the Blessings of Allah are upon them for the hard choices they have made to make the correct choice.
I have written it before and I will write it again..when it boils down to what are we..we are the same..we want to live and eat and sleep and have a good and easy life and every now and then we want to thank Allah.
Sister Shy Hijabi has made a major life decision. She has decided to give up her right for her children to be Jewish..for the love of Allah. Now folks I do not know about you..but that is a major change.

 

[aisha16]

That's intersting that you've seen that because some of the most offensive comments I've received have been from Muslim from the Southeast Asian continent. Every Indo/Pak I've met felt very strongly against marrying their son/daughter to someone not of their background, my husband's family is no exception.

My husband went against his parent's wishes after two years of trying to convince them that there was nothing "Wrong" with me because I am not Pakistani. And last time I went to visit his family they requested I not accompany him to the mechanic's because they didn't want him (Pakistani mechanic) to know their son married a "guri."

I've gone into mosques that were mostly SE Asian and have been largely ignored or sometimes even openly stared/glared at, I return their looks with a smile and a salaam. I have also been to a mosque that was primarily Somali and was actually avoided at all costs...to the point where I salaamed the sisters and they turned their backs to me. I actually went home and cried that day.

I will say this, only ONE Muslim treated me literally like her sister. When I had no place to live she had me come by train and put me in her house. While there she made sure I had food to eat and checked me often to make sure I was happy. I only had to live there for a month but I always think about her kindness and generosity when I feel hurt for being treated so poorly by other Muslims. She was from Pakistan and a Pataani. (sp?) So I think that it comes down to bigotry and the fact that no matter what, it will always be out there. But this ONE sister makes up for all the meaness and clique-ish behavior I have been subjected to.

THAT'S SO FREKIN mean what the heck, i feel soo bad, im so sorry to hear that. Wooow i cant believe the nerve of some people. I guess everyone experiences that sort of thing.....woow.

I have no clue what's up with Muslims nowadays. Like at our mosque its mainly Arab/Pakistani and they like ignore others, it's like a clique like you said. The funny thing is though the women at my masjid are mainly in their 40s and are in cliques, i used to think you outgrow that when you get older. It's sad because they'll reach over you to say salaams to someone else, when your sitting right there. :O

sigh...

 

[Munawar]

:salam2:
I am amazed to know how much ignorance is out there. I know that many reverts have complained that the so-called "born-Muslims" ignore the revert brothers and sisters, but to be disrespectful or not answering their Salaam is something I never expected to read.
What kind of Muslim will go to the Mosques in America? Someone who has some religious understanding... right? Then how that person could be rude to a revert brothers or sisters??? I am at a loss here.

As far as I am concerned or even the people I know in our Masjid, they would love to be a friend of a revert. The fact is that reverts are a better Muslim, because reverts are Muslim by choice while the born-Muslims are Muslim by chance.

All of our Sahaba (companions of Prophet Mohammed) were REVERTS, and they are considered as the best generation of Muslims. And further more the ancestors of these so-called born-Muslims were also reverts. So how a Muslim can be disrespectful or rude to a revert is totally beyond me.

There are several Hadith of Prophet Mohammed which tells us the state of the Muslim Ummah (people) near the time of Dajjal. He said Muslims will in large number but they will be like foam, their Imaan (faith) will be extremely low. So look around and you will find the same kind of Muslims as defined in the Hadiths. Majority of the Muslims have to be like this because the Hadiths says so. Therefore Muslims are in the dumpsters no matter which human faculty you pick. This is much like fate. Muslims in the past were not like today.

I love and respect all my revert brothers and sisters, and all the Muslims I know also love and respect the revert brothers and sisters. So, I ask my dear and wonderful REVERT Brothers and Sisters to please forgive these ignorant Muslims who have little knowledge of Islam and have little faith in Allah and His Prophet.

May Allah have Mercy on Muslims, and give the reverts "Ajar-e-Azeem" (great reward) and highest levels in the Paradise of Jannah Al-Firdous. Ameen!

 

[Munawar]

Thank you all for your great information so far.

:salam2:
You are welcomed Jordan !

You started this debate, but what you got out of it?

Have you learned about Islam ?

Don't let the character of today's Muslim come in the way of deciding about Islam. Islam is one thing and Muslims are another.

None of these REVERT brothers or sisters who are compalining here will ever go back to their old religion. Why? Because the religion is for Allah ... Our creator, to whome we will go and meet and answer whatever we have been doing on this earth.

See, if Muslims are bad today then it is not your problem, it is their problem, your problem is your own faith and your own deed.
And also remember Muslims in the past were not like Muslims of today, they were much better. And I believe that today's Muslim will also become a better Muslim soon .... I think that time is coming fast.

What say you ?

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

That's intersting that you've seen that because some of the most offensive comments I've received have been from Muslim from the Southeast Asian continent. Every Indo/Pak I've met felt very strongly against marrying their son/daughter to someone not of their background, my husband's family is no exception.

My husband went against his parent's wishes after two years of trying to convince them that there was nothing "Wrong" with me because I am not Pakistani. And last time I went to visit his family they requested I not accompany him to the mechanic's because they didn't want him (Pakistani mechanic) to know their son married a "guri."

I've gone into mosques that were mostly SE Asian and have been largely ignored or sometimes even openly stared/glared at, I return their looks with a smile and a salaam. I have also been to a mosque that was primarily Somali and was actually avoided at all costs...to the point where I salaamed the sisters and they turned their backs to me. I actually went home and cried that day.

I will say this, only ONE Muslim treated me literally like her sister. When I had no place to live she had me come by train and put me in her house. While there she made sure I had food to eat and checked me often to make sure I was happy. I only had to live there for a month but I always think about her kindness and generosity when I feel hurt for being treated so poorly by other Muslims. She was from Pakistan and a Pataani. (sp?) So I think that it comes down to bigotry and the fact that no matter what, it will always be out there. But this ONE sister makes up for all the meaness and clique-ish behavior I have been subjected to.

Listen sister iv only read until this much, but I want to remind you something !! there is a lot of people in the masjids both male and female who are only muslim by name, go 2 masjids for other reasons, maybe those sisters there fathers force them to go? or they feel pressure, or maybe they don't even speak english, any muslim who is a real muslim, doesn't just ignore you or try to mkae you feel bad, but if someone truely doesnt have faith like you they will treat you bad because they don't think of it as a house of God but rather a place they meet every friday..... So please don't cry over that...
take heed on what i said though its the truth regardless of what anyone will tell you
salam alaykum

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

oh i forgot to mention I am white , (background is iranian) but never the less my skin is white , atleast my iranian roots allow me to have a beard though all muslim brothers if you want some respect from other brothers grow the beards !!!!!!! just like a sister not wearing a hijab, are you going to take her seriously? i know we should regardless but we are human arn't we? peace be on you dear bros and sis

 

[ShyHijabi]

Assalaam walaikum,

It hurts so much when we are rejected by our own brothers and sisters in Islam. When we congregate at the masjid it is to celebrate being amongst the Believers. And when they display discomfort from our presence it can send us into a tizzy.
What many do not understand is our revert sisters left the duyna to come to the Right Path. It is so tempting for them to return to the luxury of the duyna.
I hope our sisters understand that the Blessings of Allah are upon them for the hard choices they have made to make the correct choice.
I have written it before and I will write it again..when it boils down to what are we..we are the same..we want to live and eat and sleep and have a good and easy life and every now and then we want to thank Allah.
Sister Shy Hijabi has made a major life decision. She has decided to give up her right for her children to be Jewish..for the love of Allah. Now folks I do not know about you..but that is a major change.

Asalaam aleakum,

But you know what is wonderful, sister? When I converted to Islam I basically ensured my children would be born into an inclusive religion. This is the only religion that specifically addresses the fact that there is no "superior people/tribe/race/culture." I came from an incredibly exclusive people that would only acknowledge an extremely small percentage of humanity as God's "chosen."

Throughout my life that never squared with me and my thoughts of God. If God created all these humans with their diversity and cultural vibrance, why only treat a tiny group as worthy? So when I studied Islam I read about a black man standing on top of the kabah and calling the adhaan in a heartbreakingly beautiful voice, I read about women who practiced medicine on their fallen Muslim brothers regardless of ethnicity, and I read about a prophet who married women from many different backgrounds and tribes. (not to mention divorcees and widows)

I love Eid and seeing the colors and diverse clothing representing our diversity of Muslims. Yet we are unified by our belief in the One God and his messengers. I don't think that these negative experiences represent what Islam is about but rather what happens when people aren't educated on their own religion.

So while it appears as if I have sacrificed so much...in reality I was freed from the chains of my former religion. I no longer am bound to treat people differently depending on their "purity" of blood. I am commanded to treat all humans with kindness and dignity....now I am free.

 

[shaheeda35]

:salam2:
I say color does not matter. We all bleed the same blood and will be judged accordingly by Allah. Dont think skin color really matters...We are just muslim. This society has us so divided that it is taking over what really matters. Allah loves us and will only see our deeds!

 

[Tabassum07]

I don't know.. I've been to a mosque once since I moved to America. And I was basically ignored. I tried to talk to some people, but no one acknowledged me, and they all continued talking happily to one another. Oh right, and then I went again on Eid, and it was the same story.. everyone just ignores you, which to me, was really sad. I tried to say salaam and smile at all the sisters, but it was like I wasn't even there... which is pretty much my story everywhere.

 

[Almaas]

:salam2:

That's intersting that you've seen that because some of the most offensive comments I've received have been from Muslim from the Southeast Asian continent. Every Indo/Pak I've met felt very strongly against marrying their son/daughter to someone not of their background, my husband's family is no exception.

My husband went against his parent's wishes after two years of trying to convince them that there was nothing "Wrong" with me because I am not Pakistani. And last time I went to visit his family they requested I not accompany him to the mechanic's because they didn't want him (Pakistani mechanic) to know their son married a "guri."

LOL, gosh that's so true, the elderly South Asian women can be so stubborn, culture is too deep rooted in them. Although, some love the idea of having a white daughter in law, to them it means fair grand children.

I've gone into mosques that were mostly SE Asian and have been largely ignored or sometimes even openly stared/glared at, I return their looks with a smile and a salaam. I have also been to a mosque that was primarily Somali and was actually avoided at all costs...to the point where I salaamed the sisters and they turned their backs to me. I actually went home and cried that day.

I will say this, only ONE Muslim treated me literally like her sister. When I had no place to live she had me come by train and put me in her house. While there she made sure I had food to eat and checked me often to make sure I was happy. I only had to live there for a month but I always think about her kindness and generosity when I feel hurt for being treated so poorly by other Muslims. She was from Pakistan and a Pataani. (sp?) So I think that it comes down to bigotry and the fact that no matter what, it will always be out there. But this ONE sister makes up for all the meaness and clique-ish behavior I have been subjected to.

Haha lol, a pathaani, woop woop

I find it strange how people stared at you just because you're white, especially in a masjid! That's so sad, I can't believe they turned their backs on you..You don't get that often here, I mean I've hardly seen it in England. People are usually more friendly to the reverts and respect them a great deal.

I *love* the diversity and of races in Islam, I think it's great, especially the unity.

LOL!
pushtuns are famous for their hospitality. A guest is an honor and these customs are ingrained them. The pashtun tribal code is called pashtunwali. Just dont make them angry!

LOL! Truee...

 

[Hana Askar]

Asalaam aleakum,


I love Eid and seeing the colors and diverse clothing representing our diversity of Muslims. Yet we are unified by our belief in the One God and his messengers. I don't think that these negative experiences represent what Islam is about but rather what happens when people aren't educated on their own religion.

So while it appears as if I have sacrificed so much...in reality I was freed from the chains of my former religion. I no longer am bound to treat people differently depending on their "purity" of blood. I am commanded to treat all humans with kindness and dignity....now I am free.

Beautifully said sister Masha'Allah

@Jordan

I have so much love and respect for my new brothers and sisters in Islaam, regardless of skin colour, race etc

I love all my old (born lol) and new brothers and sisters in Islaam for the sake of Allah.

 

[Valerie]

Don't let the character of today's Muslim come in the way of deciding about Islam. Islam is one thing and Muslims are another.

This is true. But one Muslim can either confirm misconceptions about Islam or make a person realize that they want to learn more and dig deeper for information.

It's the same with any religion, I dont' want to pretend this is only a Muslim issue. One kind person can encourage you, someone else may open their mouth and say the wrong thing (or not even do that, they might look at you wrong or just not look at you) and drive you away... Happened to me when I just wanted to learn more about my husband's family's religion..

I like blending in, but if I were obviously ignored or given a dirty look, I would probably go home and cry

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

Valerie,

Munawar gave excellent advice. In the West we have come to see our religion as a social situation (which it is); however, ultimately, Islam is about your relationship to Allah. I won't let anyone keep me out of Jannah. (Paradise). I won't let any other person send me to Jahannum (Hell).

You are obviously a sensitive person who might be driven away by a look or word, but remember, we can't read minds and there are cultural differences between individuals raised in The West and other parts of the world.

Also, when I was very new to Christianity, I made a judgmental remark about another person. My mentor at the time ask me if I decide to sit on the judgment throne. I try to always remember that it is Allah Who is The Owner of The Day of Judgment.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,


I am getting old..once upon a time in a post I responded that we are like a rainbow..each band is distinct but necessary to make the wonderful rainbow. We can not be complete without the other.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

Majority of Muslims don't act or behave as Muslim should!

:salam2:

I honestly don't think color has anything to do with the way people, especially Muslims act toward each other. important values have become neglected and it seems that most people just don't have all that much interest in making good friends, having good familial relationships or building their communities anymore. at times get I ignored and looked at so strangly sometimes for making the effort to say Asalamu Alaykum And yes these are 'my people', who speak the same language as me. Other Muslims I have come across are the same way or even worse. There's just not good communication or interaction within the Muslim communities and even Muslim families.

The division between Muslims is so deep and goes way beyond individual treatment and behavior. Muslims living in the same communities have different masjids, and no one is making any effort to really bring people together. Who's fault is it, all of our faults! InshaAllah let's make Dua for each other because no one is out of the problem, we may not think it's our fault how people treat/act toward us, but who knows maybe we're doing something wrong. Let everyone take a good look at him/her self and ask; what can I do to better myself and the way I treat people.

:salam2:

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

It still doesn't explain why they are still ashamed of the fact that their son married a white convert. I have worked very hard to be an obediant duaghter-in-law but they are caught up on my skin color and can't get past it. It appears that regardless of my efforts to learn their culture and language it will never be good enough since I have pale skin and blue eyes. But in the end it's their problem and not mine. Our children will be raised as Muslims (insh'Allah) and that's all that matters.

Wasalaam

:salam2:

Yes, it doesn't explain why one should be ashamed that a member of their family is of a different race/ethnicity/skin color.

Have sabr sister. There is a great reward for people who practice sabr. May Allah subhaana waa ta'ala make it easy for you. Ameen

:salam2:


As far as I am concerned or even the people I know in our Masjid, they would love to be a friend of a revert. The fact is that reverts are a better Muslim, because reverts are Muslim by choice while the born-Muslims are Muslim by chance.

I know that you are praising the reverts by your statement. But there is no proof of what you have mentioned. The one who chooses Islam as a way of life after Kufr, his/her sins are wiped off, I am aware of it. But this doesn't mean that a revert is a better muslim than a born muslim.

If you are trying to say that a revert has to face more hardship and make more mujahada, then I can understand your viewpoint.

It all depends on each individual whether born or revert. A born muslim can be not committed to the deen and overlook his obligations. Also, this can be true for the revert.

Allah subhaana waa ta'ala guides whom he wills. I am in no way belittling what the sacrifice that reverts make or their intentions.

Insha'Allah we should refrain from saying who is a better muslim or not, based on personal opinion. Rather we should inform each other who is a better muslim in sight of Allah, from the words of Allah in Noble Quran or through the teachings of Rasool SallAllahu Alleihi Wasallam.

"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware." (Quran 49:13)

I don't know.. I've been to a mosque once since I moved to America. And I was basically ignored. I tried to talk to some people, but no one acknowledged me, and they all continued talking happily to one another. Oh right, and then I went again on Eid, and it was the same story.. everyone just ignores you, which to me, was really sad. I tried to say salaam and smile at all the sisters, but it was like I wasn't even there... which is pretty much my story everywhere.

Insha'Allah you can look around for other islamic centres, masjids. I have heard that some of the communities where you are at, have very kind hearted and warm people. I have heard good things about the Texas Dawah Centre as well.

May Allah subhaana waa ta'ala make it easy for you. Ameen

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi