Forgive me but I need to vent

ximkoyra

Junior Member
One good friend of mine, a brother in Islam who is also African American, told me a quote from someone who's name escapes me now: he said something along the lines of "Many people convert to Islam, in spite of the Muslims".
Michael Young?

I don't know if it's the same, but:

Based on my personal experience, my advice either to new Muslims or anyone considering the possibility of accepting Islam would be simply to judge a religion not by its adherents, many of whom may fall far short of the ideal in a variety of ways (and I include myself in that!), but rather by the theology and teachings of the religion itself. To be honest, I remain in Islam very much in spite of and not because of my experiences with Muslims

I remember this because the user named Frank posted this and it kind of stung when I first read it. The entire thing here if you're interested:

Frustrations of a Muslim Convert




I honestly don't understand what it means, since all born muslims are always so thrilled to hear of anyone embracing islam, for no other reason but the joy that alhamdulillah someone has been saved, so why "in spite of the Muslims?"

I would recommend reading the article I linked to. Obviously there are many other issues, but it is a good start


As a born Muslim raised in the US I can easily shrug off many things I see as debatable/unimportant and not feel as though I am betraying my faith, even if that means ignoring my fellow "Muslims". For a new convert, that's not something they can do. They are naturally more impressionable and need time to find their "comfort zone" where they can stand their ground and decide for themselves what is truly important/correct or not.

What I have often seen is new converts just getting overwhelmed with things that are nowhere near the core of what Islam is about, which only ends up confusing them or making them annoyed to the point of giving up. So yes, it is pretty amazing that Islam appeals to so many people and continues to grow in spite of (but often well meaning) Muslims.
 

ximkoyra

Junior Member
and since we're on the topic of race and reverts, why the heck do people act like white female reverts are some mystical magical beings? What gives? Why are all the guys always interested? .

Ahaha, great description. It's very crude, but I believe that the male equivalent can be considered "the great white convert". I'm actually kind of surprised at Daniel's experience because I would imagine that even though it is also a racist attitude, albeit a different kind, the "great white convert" experience would be much more prevalent than what he has to go through.

Is it some sort of wanting what you usually can't have forbidden fruit thing? Its weird. Hispanic and black female reverts usually don't get the same reaction

I think it's a couple of factors. You're right about the forbidden fruit thing, as a white female that used to be untouchable is now "available" due to her conversion.

Also, I think Aapa has the right idea in that the infatuation for a white female is higher than that of other races. I apologize, but I can vouch for the fact that the attraction to white female converts is higher than other races for factors that have absolutely nothing to do with how "pure" the iman of a new convert is.

It's very superficial. An extremely beautiful hispanic or black woman will garner more interest than a white woman based purely on physical attraction. But the fact is that hispanic and black women will probably "blend in" better than a white women, who would most probably stand out unless the specific mosque is fairly diverse.


But the curious thing is that I don't see white European girls who were born into Muslim families getting the same treatment.
Be honest, are they as pretty as other white Muslim females you've seen?

If so, then it is most likely that it probably has to do with wanting what you can't have. There's no thrill in going after a white European girl if she was already born a Muslim when you have the "thrill" of going after an equally attractive white American convert or something.

Another thing that it might be is that those born into Muslim families may be tougher to fool/handle because they are not so easily tricked with silly statements such as, "I can see the noor in your face." lol I always cringe when I hear that. Converts are probably more desirable because they might not be so apt to reject somebody because of their desire to fit in with their new community or something. At least that's what the perception may be.

Sounds like a great research topic :p
 

TipuSultan

Banned
brother Danyal I got your point now after reading your full thread.
not only we have proud somalis and other african black muslims brothers.

we have also many white brothers from chechnaya,kashmir,albania and other white american muslim brothers.

to me both are equal for Islam does not distinguish the colour difference.

why do you have to follow any shyak?Follow quran there is no priesthood in Islam.I will tell u a secret more than half of shayks in India/pakistan are only name sake shyaks who have no real knowledge of Islam and just say stop watching TV-lol.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Yes I know, we call them "Pakafi"... and they also don't say "AMEEEN" at the end of the Al Fatihah even with all the proof that we should.

But down in Lodi, the city south of Sacramento where I live, the community is very heavily Pakistani and they had 2 brothers in a "terrorist cell" (clicky) arrested back in 2007, and because of that ALL white Muslims in this area are suspect. These are brothers who's families I know, and who go to a sister masjid to mine. It hit very close to home.


:salam2:wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu...

it may be the hanafi madhab thing or whatever,but one thing i'm certain of.since we pakistanis are blamed for most of what is called the "terrorist activies" for providing (unknown and mostly unproven)support,ammunition and and space to these freaky ppl and most of us are followed by shadows and taken in custody and families never kno of one another after that.who does it??non believers who act as muslims.they got good knowledge of islam and easily impress the innocent ignorants around them.so it's natural that they are very protective though i don't support this behaviour.we may never knw who is the munafiq amongst us but when a person says "He believes" he should be treated likewise till proven othewise.

it happens often that i want to do something for someone online.maybe pay donations,send something.get in contact etc.and when i ask for paps help he's usually reluctant and gives me a be cautious talk.for a long time my father wasn't even sure of TTI.scared what this site may have.but Alhumdulillah i asked him to take a look and now he's the one who supports me most in TTI matters:)but anyways Him being head of the family i take his word seriously.but i feel like this sort of doubts and fear is leading us nowhere.it's creating more problems then protection.

anyways akhi don't get offended by this manner.many has lost their family members and and kno nothing about them being dead or alive.hope you understand(it's foolish yes but not everyone is wit good brains to reason with:SMILY149:)So inshallah they'll trust you soon.May ALLAH create love,respect and trust between the muslims.ameen

jazakallah khairan
 

stiks

Amatur-Rahman
Assalaam walaikum,

You can always join me..between a rock and a hard place. Hey...I lay claims to be a Paki and they shy away.
The white female reverts are the ones in my community that get all the attention. The black revert sisters gets angry.
Me...I float...one day I am Paki...one day I chill with the Arab sisters...some-days I play with the revert sisters; one day black one day white.

I wrote this before... I was in the food line at a wedding..Paki...I was wearing a traditional outfit with hijab ( too cute..if I must say so myself)..no sooner had I finished explaing to an Arab sister I was a Paki but no-one thought so...a Paki sister asked me if I was from Palestine. Go figure.

We are the fortunate ones. We are strangers to everyone. I even have a son that looks and acts white. I tell everyone I adopted him. ( just kidding, people).

For an ummath that is not supposed to pay attention to nationalism or color, dear lord are we confused.

I don't care what you say. I still love ya. You have given up so much for Islam. I see the humility in your posts. I see the Love you have for Allah. I read your pride as you donned on your "native" clothes when you resigned your job. You strive so hard to please Allah. When you visited your parents..the care you took to make acceptable salat.

Forgive me, I do love Mike T. but that is just me. I love everybody and almost everything.

You are dear to me..and Insha'Allah, Allah will reward you with all that pleases you heart as you strive to please him.

How do i put this......

Sister the word in RED is a derogatory term, not to be used, especially if you ever visit the UK.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

The last I checked, most visitors on this forum are from the UK. Most active mods are from the UK. This site was started in the UK. Down over here, as the sister stiks pointed out, it's considered a derogatory term so it shouldn't be used on these forums, irregardless of whether you are Pakistani/Kashmiri or not.

I understand that overseas, the situation is different, but the forums are global.

Was-salaam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Thank you. .I am so confused...you can be a desi but not a paki...although I lived in the UK and speak with a British accent I do not plan on setting foot in Europe.
I am not a monarchist. I hate the City of London.

Do not move to London...they are racists. Worse than here..move to WV...
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Assalaam walaikum,

Thank you. .I am so confused...you can be a desi but not a paki...although I lived in the UK and speak with a British accent I do not plan on setting foot in Europe.
I am not a monarchist. I hate the City of London.

Do not move to London...they are racists. Worse than here..move to WV...

Wa`alaykum us-salaam

Perhaps the UK was the first place to see huge numbers of Pakistanis/Kashmiris settle in the Western world. Naturally, there was a negative response, riots, attacks and what else. Our parents, grandparents etc. went through a hell lot and the term 'paki' was used as a racial slur. In other words, the racists were the first to really assume this term, no one else.

London and the UK in general may be bad, but there are so many Muslims here alhamdulillaah, I doubt there is a single city in America that can match lets say London in terms of the number of mosques, Muslims, Halal take aways (nearly every Subway in London sells only Halaal meats) and whatever else...

Anyway, back to the thread...
 

stiks

Amatur-Rahman
Assalaam walaikum,

Thank you. .I am so confused...you can be a desi but not a paki...although I lived in the UK and speak with a British accent I do not plan on setting foot in Europe.
I am not a monarchist. I hate the City of London.

Do not move to London...they are racists. Worse than here..move to WV...

Awww come on now, its not as bad as all that! in fact its fantastic! especially with regards to muslim communities and accessibility to anything islamic/halal/ masajid/lectures/madrassas! everything!

I'd go as far as to say its the best place to live if you are muslim within these western lands! so there
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
Wa`alaykum us-salaam


London and the UK in general may be bad, but there are so many Muslims here alhamdulillaah, I doubt there is a single city in America that can match lets say London in terms of the number of mosques, Muslims, Halal take aways (nearly every Subway in London sells only Halaal meats) and whatever else...

Anyway, back to the thread...

:salam2:

Haven't been to London, but I would say Houston has a large community of muslims Alhamdulillah. We have many muslim owned restaurants there as well as mosques and Islamic events. I don't know how it compares to London, but I think within the US, it's one of the largest (if not the largest).

Perhaps someone who has lived either side of Atlantic could tell us.

And you can always get the tuna sandwich at Subway.. ;)
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Wa`alaykum us-salaam

I was meaning to (properly) comment on this earlier, but didn't find the opportunity. Brother Danyal, what you have mentioned would seem very strange on this side of the atlantic. Everyone here seems to jump at the site of a revert, especially white ones...

May Allaah ease your affair.

Was-salaam
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Salaam aleakum,

This is completely OT but I just had to insert this. My husband is from Pakistan and follows the hanifi mahtab and prays shoulder to shoulder and foot to foot. So I am not sure why some people use the excuse if being from the hanifi mahtab because everyone at his mosque (mostly hanifi) also pray in this fashion. He also says Ameen at the proper time as well.

Brother Danyal, while I cannot speak for white male converts I can give my point of view. How many white female converts are known by name? I can only think fo one off the top of my head yet can mention numerous white males. While some men seem to glorify white female converts as some weird fetish we are largely forgotten or ignored.

I have gone to mosques where none of the sisters (all of color) would not even deem to salaam me. Once I walked up to a group of black sisters and they literally turned their backs to me when I salaamed them. I felt disgusted and heart broken at their behavior. So female white converts deal with quite a bit of negative treatment as well. It was so frustrating that the only time I was approached was from some brother leering at me and proposing! No proper approach...didn't ask to speak to my wali...just wanna marry me? <rolls eyes>

Racism is alive and well in this world and Muslims are no immune to it. The only thing we can do is not imitate this vile behavior and always recall the final sermon.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

At least on TTI we can convey our feelings. We have our own little world. And to my white revert brothers and sisters...there are Muslims like me out here and we are just so happy to see other Muslims. The words Assalaam walaikum make me rejoice and to think you guys gave up the benefits of the duyna to pray alongside me...that is just sunshine, raindrops, and lollipops.

I went to jumma at a masjid in the DC area. I was besides myself. They have three jumma services. They had a policeman and the works. The staff was so kind they let me park behind the masjid out of respect for my mother. A very young imam asked me if this was my home congregation ( he was grinning ) and I told him I was visiting. ( didn't have the heart to tell him my daddy was instrumental in acquiring the property). Before everyone has a heart attack...the speakers went out in the women's section and I ran around trying to alert someone. He was the most pleasant young imam.

And there were white males there, too. I was so happy to see the rainbows of Islam.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sorry folks..West Virginia is the bomb. We are wild and wonderful and almost heaven...now you can't beat that.

( my brother in law is English...I still do not understand one word he says and I keep asking him to speak English.)
 

TipuSultan

Banned
brother danyal if you looking to migrate you can come to India too.it has more muslims than in UK or pakistan.if u stay in muslim area you dont have to worry about halal food because most of the butchers in India are muslims. lot of job opportunities too or if u still want to go to middle east u can try kuwait or oman whose currency value is more than dollar but be careful dear brother I just read in 1 thread that someone in kuwait made someone work without paying him.:astag:
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
Salaam aleakum,

This is completely OT but I just had to insert this. My husband is from Pakistan and follows the hanifi mahtab and prays shoulder to shoulder and foot to foot. So I am not sure why some people use the excuse if being from the hanifi mahtab because everyone at his mosque (mostly hanifi) also pray in this fashion. He also says Ameen at the proper time as well.
.

:salam2:

This is because the 'madhabis' are inclined to take rulings only from a single source and try their utmost to somehow justify their actions (which are inline with their respective fiqh) which are at times different from the proven Sunnah of Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam.

For them to accept their imam is a *human* at the end of day and is prone to making mistake or might have incomplete knowledge on a subject (at his time) is impossible and they consider it to be a great insult.
 

Valerie

Junior Member
Assalaam walaikum,

Sorry folks..West Virginia is the bomb. We are wild and wonderful and almost heaven...now you can't beat that.

( my brother in law is English...I still do not understand one word he says and I keep asking him to speak English.)

There's grass and trees there, I"m almost kinda jealous. ;) My husband and I want to go back to TN. Being in nevada is awful. We sat outside for a while today because there was a tiny bit of rain falling. It was so nice... It was 100 degrees yesterday :( The fun part was my son was playing in the sprinkler, my husband kept turning the water up when my son got close to it (it was funny, my son would squeal and run away then run back when the water went low again).
 

IHearIslam

make dua 4 ma finals
:salam2:
subhanaAllaah...your post is soo heartbreaking! I was thinking California had a very good Muslim community, guess I was wrong:(
I am really sorry you had to go through this....it's shameful to know that Muslims have so much racism while Islam teaches "equality" subhanaAllah! I wonder what happened to the muslims of today?? where is the real ISLAM?? I am really saddened by your post....subhanaAllaah. I live in Minnesota and we LOVE all sort of Muslims! I had the preveladge to actually see someone taking the Shahada a month ago....yes he was caucasian and was given a warm welcoming. AlhamduliAllaah!
I am truely glad you have studied ISLAM first before you met Muslims! You're very strong, know that and run with it. Allaah will open a door for you and as you said "you're in it for Allaah" mashaAllaah.
When I took Shahadah I had a Myspace page. A friend posted a comment for all to see saying "How can you be Muslim? You're not Black!" And that, my brothers and sisters in Islam, is a common sentiment felt and exhibited in America.
la ilaha ila Allaah! subhanaAllaah:( well I guess that is what many believe.....as saddening as it sounds. May Allaah change our condition.ameen
I know that if I were any other demographic than Caucasian American I would have many people telling me "Oh I totally understand how you feel". But as a white American I'm not allowed to have feelings. I'm not allowed to feel alone or separated. I'm not allowed to feel frustration. So instead I know I'm going to get flamed for this post.
well, not many akhi.....I do actually feel for you and I ask Allaah to help you through this. Race has nothing to do with Islam...Islam is FREE of the rubishness of race. I hate all sorts of racists....and it's a disgrace to find there are Muslims who are racist and yet have the nerve to call themselves Muslims!!! a'uthubiAllaah. May Allaah guide us all!ameen
But by Allah, I came to Islam for Allah subhanAllah wa ta'ala, and for our Prophet salallahu alayhi wa salaam. Not for the Ummah. One good friend of mine, a brother in Islam who is also African American, told me a quote from someone who's name escapes me now: he said something along the lines of "Many people convert to Islam, in spite of the Muslims".

I do not mean to hurt anyone's feelings here. I am only crying out because I now do most of my salaat at home in my room because I'm about as alone there as I am in my masjid.

May Allah forgive me if I've said anything wrong, and may my brothers and sisters hear my feelings and not be offended by my words.
And stay in it for Allaah alone for He is the one who is going judge you. Muslims dont define this deen, it's the deen itself that defines us.....but we barely act upon it:( oh Allaah help us. ameen
indeed...and we praise and thank Allaah for that blessing....:) AlhamduliAllaah
May Allaah make it easy for you....I feel so sorry wallahi, I just wish things were like the time of the prophet Sala'alahu alahi wasalam....where no color existed. Bilal and Omar were the same though their colors where different! subhanaAllaah. It's good to vent...you sort things out after you let go. I am glad you shared this, it has opened my eyes to what my fellow revert brothers and sisters go through. I can only ask Allaah to help us all. ameen
KEEP YOUR PATIENCE BRO....ALLAAh WILL REWARD YOU AT THE END
 
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