is it Fitna.?

[joldas]

Assalamou Alikom Warahmatou Allah,

Brother you already have started jugging us ?!?!?

For me this sounds odd and weird since it is clear that you've came here with sever prejudices about us.

Brother we commit ourselves here to respect peoples believes no matter those believes are as long as they address us with respect.

If your intention is to learn about the true Islam please reconsider your approach and we will be more than happy to discuss with you anything. Otherwise, your are in the wrong place.


Hasbouna Allah wanemaa Al-wakeel.

Wassalam

wagalikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Never, do not think so. kick out those prejudices. we brother in Deen, we are muslim. i am just telling you that, because said the ashari and matudiri is misguided..then answer my questions...

 

[joldas]

Salamu alaykum


What is your so called maruridi aqeedah if u can explain.

:salam2:

Maturidiyyah is a Sunni theological school named after its founder Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d.944). In the Mamluk age the school came to be widely recognised as the second orthodox Sunni theological school beside Ash'ariyyah. Resident in Samarqand in Central Asia, al-Maturidi had little impact on mainstream Islamic intellectual life during his lifetime. Maturidiyyah only came to be important as a result of its acceptance by the Turkish tribes of Central Asia. The Maturidi school of theology gradually came to prevail among the Hanafite communities everywhere. Because the Turks were mostly Hanafite the Turkish expansion through the Ottoman empire enabled the Hanafite and Maturidite schools to spread throughout western Persia, Iraq, Anatolia, and Syria.


Today nearly 53% of Sunni Muslims are Hanafites, and the majority of Hanafites are Maturidites. Maturidiyyah is now present in Turkey, the Balkans, Central Asia, China, India, Pakistan and Eritrea.


you can read about the Maturidi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maturidi


and a lot bout Maturidi here...

http://www.maturidis.com/maturidi/

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txw/maturidi.htm

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/sunni/matur.html

http://www.turkishculture.org/philosophers/ebu-mansur-maturidi-22.htm

inshallah, it will help us
....

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

Dear brother, I think all brothers and sisters said right. There are only 4 schools of Islaam,and all of them are right Alhamdulillah. I do not understand what is not clear there, SubhanAllah and about which other madhab you are saying?.Islam is easy Alahdmulilah and mercy to all mankinds, and as long as you folow Quran and Sunnah, you will be on the right way dear brother, Inshalalh. There is only one Quran, one Sunnah, and we are one Ummah.

May Allah guide you to the right answers.:tti_sister:

 

[arzafar]

:salam2:

Maturidiyyah is a Sunni theological school named after its founder Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d.944). In the Mamluk age the school came to be widely recognised as the second orthodox Sunni theological school beside Ash'ariyyah. Resident in Samarqand in Central Asia, al-Maturidi had little impact on mainstream Islamic intellectual life during his lifetime. Maturidiyyah only came to be important as a result of its acceptance by the Turkish tribes of Central Asia. The Maturidi school of theology gradually came to prevail among the Hanafite communities everywhere. Because the Turks were mostly Hanafite the Turkish expansion through the Ottoman empire enabled the Hanafite and Maturidite schools to spread throughout western Persia, Iraq, Anatolia, and Syria.


Today nearly 53% of Sunni Muslims are Hanafites, and the majority of Hanafites are Maturidites. Maturidiyyah is now present in Turkey, the Balkans, Central Asia, China, India, Pakistan and Eritrea.


you can read about the Maturidi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maturidi


and a lot bout Maturidi here...

http://www.maturidis.com/maturidi/

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txw/maturidi.htm

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/sunni/matur.html

http://www.turkishculture.org/philosophers/ebu-mansur-maturidi-22.htm

inshallah, it will help us
....

By Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan

Source: Sharh Masaa’il-ul-Jaahiliyyah (pg. 60-62)

Produced By: Al-Ibaanah.com

Imaam Muhammad Sulaymaan at-Tamimi ( rahimahullaah) said:

[5] From the greatest of their principles was that they would be deluded by the majority, using that to determine the correctness of a matter. They would also determine the falsehood of something if it was strange and that its adherents were few. So Allaah brought them the opposite of that, clarifying this in many places of the Qur’aan.

- The Explanation -

From the characteristics of the people of the Days of Ignorance is that they would view the majority as proof that something was true and the minority as proof hat something was false. So according to them, whatever the majority of the people was upon, that was the truth. And whatever the minority was upon, that was not the truth. In their eyes, this was the balance used to determine truth from falsehood. However, this is wrong, for Allaah says: “And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.” [Surah Al-An’aam: 116]

And He says: “But most of mankind know not.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 187]

And He says: “And most of them We found to be not true to their covenant, but most of them We found indeed to be evil sinners.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 102]

So the balance is not the majority and the minority. Rather, the balance is the truth. So whoever is upon the truth, even if he is by himself, he is the one who is correct and deserves to be emulated. And if the majority of the people are upon falsehood, then it is obligatory to reject them and not be deceived by them. So consideration is given to the truth. This is why the scholars say: “Truth is not known by way of men, but rather men are known by way of the truth.” So whoever is upon the truth, then he is the one we must follow and emulate.

In Allaah’s stories about the prior nations, He informs us that it is always the minority that is upon the truth, as Allaah says: “And no one believed with him except for a few.” [Surah Hood: 40]

And in a hadeeth in which the nations were presented to the Prophet, he (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said that he saw a prophet that had a small group of followers with him, and a prophet that had a man or two men following him, and another prophet that had no one with him. So consideration is not given to which opinion or view has the most followers. Rather, consideration is given to its being either true or false. So whatever is true, even though a minority of the people or no one is upon it – so long as it is the truth – it must be adhered to, for indeed it is salvation. Falsehood is not aided by the fact that it has a majority of people following it, ever. This is a determining measure that the Muslim must always abide by.

The Prophet (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “Islaam began strange and it will return back to being strange as it began.” This will occur at the time when evil, calamities and misguidance increase. So no one will remain upon the truth except for the strange ones amongst the people and those who extract themselves from their tribes (for the sake of their religion). They will become strangers in their society. The Messenger (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) was sent while the whole world was submersed in disbelief and misguidance. And when he called the people, only one or two answered his call. It was only until later on that they grew to be many. The tribe of Quraish, not to mention the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and the whole world, was upon misguidance. And the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) was the only one calling the people. So those that followed him were few with respect to the entire world.

So consideration is not given to the majority. Consideration is only given to what is correct and to achieving the truth. Yes, if the majority of the people are upon correctness, then that is good. However, the way of Allaah is that the majority of the people is always upon falsehood.

“And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.” [Surah Yoosuf: 103]

“And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.” [Surah Al-An’aam: 116]

credited to: authentic base

 

[joldas]

:salam2:

Dear brother, I think all brothers and sisters said right. There are only 4 schools of Islaam,and all of them are right Alhamdulillah. I do not understand what is not clear there, SubhanAllah and about which other madhab you are saying?.Islam is easy Alahdmulilah and mercy to all mankinds, and as long as you folow Quran and Sunnah, you will be on the right way dear brother, Inshalalh. There is only one Quran, one Sunnah, and we are one Ummah.

May Allah guide you to the right answers.:tti_sister:

good hearted sister in deen - Islam. there are some saying Maturidiyyah aqeedah is misguided , but i am saying Maturidiyyah is majority of Hanafites, , and as for me for current time i am saying and insisting we need take a madhab. and i am saying we must not give ourselves the "salafi" name, just give Muslim and saying ahli sunna wa al jamaga.

and some newly rooted question over the discussion due to the exchange in opinion and knowledge...

 

[joldas]

By Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan

Source: Sharh Masaa’il-ul-Jaahiliyyah (pg. 60-62)

Produced By: Al-Ibaanah.com

Imaam Muhammad Sulaymaan at-Tamimi ( rahimahullaah) said:

[5] From the greatest -----------

:salam2:

who is "Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan"? what is his aqeedah, where he learned, from which scholar, and which madhab?

i do not read blindly, sorry, it is the way of learning manner in Islam..Ulama teach us learn with that way... otherwise we are no difference with robot...i`ll read it after knowing the answer of my questions...

jazaka allah hayir...

 

[AdamMuslim]

i do not read blindly, sorry, it is the way of learning manner in Islam..Ulama teach us learn with that way... otherwise we are no difference with robot...
jazaka allah hayir...

Subhan Allah brother ... what a twisted logic !!!
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself by saying this ?????
Yesterday you gave us a long paper by a certain Zubeir Qamar ???

Unless you did not reads that paper ???!!!!

if you have ...who was his teacher ? what is his mathab ?

Inna lillah Wa inna ilayhi rajiounn

 

[arzafar]

what the hell is murtdaiya anyway. tbh i get the feeling it's what i was fed and the whole pakistan is fed.

do you know what was the madhab of imam abu hanifa? was he a murtdaiya?

and forget Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan

at least read the verses of the quraan which clearly refute your point about the majority being correct.

“But most of mankind know not.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 187]

“And most of them We found to be not true to their covenant, but most of them We found indeed to be evil sinners.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 102]

“And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.” [Surah Yoosuf: 103]

“And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.” [Surah Al-An’aam: 116]

 

[joldas]

Subhan Allah brother ... what a twisted logic !!!
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself by saying this ?????
Yesterday you gave us a long paper by a certain Zubeir Qamar ???

Unless you did not reads that paper ???!!!!

if you have ...who was his teacher ? what is his mathab ?

Inna lillah Wa inna ilayhi rajiounn

i am meeted Zubeir Qamar`s artcle throguh internet..i am hated him...his article maked me confused...

i am on the road to get some point clear...

 

[joldas]

what the hell is murtdaiya anyway. tbh i get the feeling it's what i was fed and the whole pakistan is fed.

do you know what was the madhab of imam abu hanifa? was he a murtdaiya?

and forget Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan

at least read the verses of the quraan which clearly refute your point about the majority being correct.

“But most of mankind know not.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 187]

“And most of them We found to be not true to their covenant, but most of them We found indeed to be evil sinners.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 102]

“And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.” [Surah Yoosuf: 103]

“And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.” [Surah Al-An’aam: 116]

:salam2:

brother you make me even confused what "murtdaiya " , i am never heard?

 

[Asja]

good hearted sister in deen - Islam. there are some saying Maturidiyyah aqeedah is misguided , but i am saying Maturidiyyah is majority of Hanafites, , and as for me for current time i am saying and insisting we need take a madhab. and i am saying we must not give ourselves the "salafi" name, just give Muslim and saying ahli sunna wa al jamaga.

and some newly rooted question over the discussion due to the exchange in opinion and knowledge...

:salam2:

Barak Allah feekh dear brother for your reply.To be honest, I have never heared for this madhab which you have mentioned, but Inshallah I will reed more about it. If they folow " hanafi madhab" which is one of the 4 truthfull schools of Islaam mashallah, why they need to identify themselves as Maturidiyyah, and folow thier Schoolar instead to folow Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Mohammed sallahu alayha wa salam.?

Alhamdulillah I agree with you dear brother, we should not call oursleves with any names except with beautiful name from Allah- Muslims. Because that will only couse more seperation between Muslim Ummah.Islaam is not hard, and all answers can be find in Quraan and Sunnah of our Prophet s.a.w.s.

May Allah guide us all

 

[joldas]

what the hell is murtdaiya anyway. tbh i get the feeling it's what i was fed and the whole pakistan is fed.

do you know what was the madhab of imam abu hanifa? was he a murtdaiya?

and forget Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan

at least read the verses of the quraan which clearly refute your point about the majority being correct.

“But most of mankind know not.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 187]

“And most of them We found to be not true to their covenant, but most of them We found indeed to be evil sinners.” [Surah Al-A’raaf: 102]

“And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.” [Surah Yoosuf: 103]

“And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.” [Surah Al-An’aam: 116]

you even quoted to me Ayah from Quran...i am your brother in islam..

i am muslim, it is not needed to quoet it...i am not Farah, astagfirollah..quran verses can not be use arbitrarily, it is so heavy to me...do not blame me that way, it is not right..not the way of alhi sunna wa aljamaga...i am muslin approach me with the way what Muhammed s.w.w.s teach us via manner of Ulamas.

 

[muharram23]

A

Salamu alaykum

Joldas, please refer to our aqeeedah section. There is plenty here to learn from.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

Shaykh Al-Uthaimeen said about the maturidis and ash'aris this


WHO IS AHLUS-SUNNAH WAL-JAMAA’AH?

Imaam Muhammad Ibn Saalih al-’Uthaymeen - hafidhahullaah - said:
[passed away; rahimahullaah]
‘‘So - for example - the Ash’arees and the Maatureedees are not considered from Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah in this particular matter (i.e. concerning the Names and Attributes of Allaah). Rather, they oppose what the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Companions were upon with regards to accepting the Attributes of Allaah - the Most Perfect - upon their haqeeqah (real meaning). This is why, whoever says that Ahlus-Sunnah are three groups: the Salafees, the Ash’arees and the Maatureedees - then such a person is indeed mistaken. Rather we say: How can all three be considered Ahlus-Sunnah and they differ with each other? What is there after Truth, except misguidance. How can they all be Ahlus-Sunnah, whilst each one of them refutes the other - this is not possible - except if it is possible to reconcile the opposites. There is no doubt however, that one of them is truly Ahlus-Sunnah - but which one? Is it the Ash’arees, the Maatureedees or the Salafees? Whichever of them agrees with the Sunnah is considered to be Ahlus-Sunnah, whilst whichever of them opposes it is not. So we say: The Salaf are Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, and this description cannot be true for anyone else other than them. So how can those who oppose the Sunnah be called Ahlus-Sunnah - this is not possible. How is it possible to say Ahlus-Sunnah are of three differing groups, but we say that they are in agreement? So where is the agreement and consensus? Rather, Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah are those who hold on to what the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Companions were upon, and to the ’aqeedah (creed) of the Salaf - until the Day of Judgement - and they are the Salafees.’’ [26]


Also Joldas

If your understanding about Allah's names and attributes is not like this

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54171

, then there is alot of issues in your aqeedah. And definitelly, the asharis and maturidis are a misguided sect, misguided aqeedah. When we talk about Allah and His names and attributes we can not changed them, distort them, deny them, resemble them to His creation etc.

Please read further here,

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2521

Please refer here to this hadith in sunnan tirmithi what imam tirmithi and scholars of ahlusunnah wal jamah called people that change the meaning of ALlah's names and attributes and distort them. Note, he called them jahmiyyah because the maturidi and ashari aqeedah came later. The jahmiyaah are worse because they negate all Allah's names and attributes while maturidi/ashari dont negate but resorted to Taweel (changing the meaining).

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2259

Had the maturidi or ashari been in time of imam tirmidhi, that is what they would also say about them. The ahlul 'ailm that imam tirmidhi is refering to.

Further on the names of Allah's Names and Attributes according to the real Ahlussunnah wal Jamah.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2258

Please read aqeedatul wasatiyah by shaykhul islaam ibn taymiyah ra.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62920


Also, aqeedah explained by Imam At-tahaawi

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65482


Please learn from this and may Allah show us the write path

Ameen

wassalam