How should a Muslim respond...
- Thread starter joldas
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ShyHijabi
Junior Member
:salam2:
So help me out...we can't say He is everywhere...we can't say He is "here" or "there." So what do we say? I don't know(?)
I was raised to believe that God (we used the Hebrew title) was basically all-seeing and all-knowing. That there was no place He could not see or know...so we said He was everywhere. This is wrong?
So help me out...we can't say He is everywhere...we can't say He is "here" or "there." So what do we say? I don't know(?)
I was raised to believe that God (we used the Hebrew title) was basically all-seeing and all-knowing. That there was no place He could not see or know...so we said He was everywhere. This is wrong?
:salam2:
sister, so we do not talk about where is Allah.
this post for those giving Allah time and spaces, direction and places.
we do not talk about where is Allah.
just say i am limited...weak. and keep yourself on that it is not my duty to talk about that, my duty is to follow what Allah ordered me, then you are right..
sister, so we do not talk about where is Allah.
this post for those giving Allah time and spaces, direction and places.
we do not talk about where is Allah.
just say i am limited...weak. and keep yourself on that it is not my duty to talk about that, my duty is to follow what Allah ordered me, then you are right..
arzafar
Junior Member
ermm.. yes.
The correct and in fact the only islaamic position is that Allah is above the heavens. Omnipresence is wrong belief and many Muslims have been misguided by it.
Some people say that Allah is above the heavens (according to one of the ayahs of the quran), and may scholars say that Allah exists without a place, since only the creation has the characteristic of needing a place and We know the ayah "Laysa-ka-mislly-he-shay" - (proving allah does not resemble his creation), is he everywhere, existing without a place, or above the heavens?
Praise be to Allaah,
The people of Sunnah and Jamaa’ah (Ahl al-Sunnah) believe that Allaah is exalted above His creation because of the evidence of the Qur’aan, Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, common sense and man’s innate instinct (fitrah).
(1) The Qur’aan describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allaah in different ways, as His being High and Above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning):
(Highness):
". . .and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [al-Baqarah 2:255]
"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [al-A’la 87:1]
(Above):
"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves . . ." [al-An’aam 6:18]
"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [al-Nahl 16:50]
(Things coming down from Him):
"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth . . ." [al-Sajdah 32:5]
"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan). . ." [al-Hijr 15:9]
(Things going up to Him):
". . . To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it . . ." [Faatir 35:10]
"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him . . ." [al-Ma’aarij 70:4]
(Allaah is above heaven):
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you . . .?" [al-Mulk 67:16]
(2) The Sunnah: many reports were narrated "mutawaatir" (i.e. with a large number of narrators at every stage of the isnaad, such that it is impossible for them all to have agreed on a lie) from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), describing his words and deeds and things of which he approved. For example, he used to say "Subhaana Rabbi al-A’laa (Glory be to my Lord Most High)" in sujood, and in some ahaadeeth he is reported to have said "By Allaah Who is above the Throne."
Among his deeds is the gesture of pointing up with his finger, when addressing the people in the greatest gathering, on the Day of ‘Arafaah during his Farewell Pilgrimage. He asked the people, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "Yes!" He asked again, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "yes!". He asked a third time, have I not conveyed the message?" and they said "Yes!" Each time, he said: "O Allaah, bear witness!" - pointing up to the sky and then at the people. He also used to raise his hands towards heaven when he made du’aa’, as it reported in tens of ahaadeeth. This is proof via his actions that Allaah is exalted and high.
An example of an approval of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) which indicates that Allaah is exalted and high is the hadeeth concerning the young slave girl, to whom the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "Where is Allaah?" She said: "In heaven" He asked, "Who am I?" She said, "The Messenger of Allaah." So he said to her master: "Set her free, for she is a believer."
This young girl was uneducated, as many are, and she was a slave, but she knew that her Lord is above heaven. Some misguided people deny that Allaah is above heaven, and say, "He is neither above nor below; neither to the right nor to the left. He is everywhere!"
(3) The consensus of the scholars: the salaf agreed that Allaah is above heaven, as is reported by scholars such as al-Dhahabi, may Allaah have mercy on him, in his book Al-‘Aluw li’l-‘Aliy al-Ghaffaar.
(4) Common sense: highness is a quality which is associated in people’s minds with perfection. If this is the case, then it should be attributed to Allaah because every absolute perfection should be attributed to Him.
(5) The innate instinct of man (fitrah). There should be no dispute that man instinctively knows that Allaah is above heaven. Whenever something overwhelming befalls a person, and he turns to Allaah for help, he looks towards heaven, not in any other direction. But it is strange that those who deny that Allaah is above His creation still raise their hands in supplication to no other direction than towards heaven.
Even Pharaoh, the enemy of Allaah who disputed with Moosaa about his Lord, told his minister Haamaan (interpretation of the meaning): "O Haamaan! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosaa . . ." [Ghaafir 40:36-37]
He knew in his heart of hearts that Allaah is real, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "And they belied them (those aayaat) wrongfully and arrogantly, though their own selves were convinced thereof . . ." [al-Naml 27:14]
These are a few of the indications that Allaah is above the heavens; this proof comes from the Qur’aan, the Sunnah, the consensus of the scholars, common sense, man’s own instincts and even the words of the kuffaar.
We ask Allaah to guide us towards the Truth.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
Wa`alaykum us-salaam warahmatullaah
When the slave-girl in the hadeeth of Mu`âwiyah bin Hakam As-Sulamî was asked by the Messenger of Allaah (sall Allaahu `alayhi wasallam), "Where is Allaah" and she responsed "Above the Heavens", the Prophet (sall Allaahu `alayhi wasallam) said to Mu`âwiyah, "Free her for verily she is a believer."
I hope that gives you're answer.
AdamMuslim
Junior Member
:salam2:
For me this question is wrong to begin with !
I would answer anyone who might ask me: I do not know because Allah never revealed that to us. Same is true for so many other things.
Consequently what can we gain from such question but fitnah and division ?
And Allah knows best,
Wassalam
For me this question is wrong to begin with !
I would answer anyone who might ask me: I do not know because Allah never revealed that to us. Same is true for so many other things.
Consequently what can we gain from such question but fitnah and division ?
And Allah knows best,
Wassalam
:salam2:
I think the one by Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (May Allah have mercy on him) is one of the most concise and easy to follow.
Imam Ahmad Ibn Hambal (d. 241H):: “Allah is above the seventh Heaven, over His Throne, separate from His creation. His Power and Knowledge are in every place.”
Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi
I think the one by Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (May Allah have mercy on him) is one of the most concise and easy to follow.
Imam Ahmad Ibn Hambal (d. 241H):: “Allah is above the seventh Heaven, over His Throne, separate from His creation. His Power and Knowledge are in every place.”
Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi
Wa`alaykum us-salaam dear brother.
In fact, Allaah did reveal this to us, see my previous post. Also, there are at least 6 aayaat in the Qur'aan that say that Allaah is above His throne (20:5, 7:54, 13:2 etc). There is an aayah that says that our deeds and good words rise to Allaah (I belive in Surah Faatir). There are two aayaat in Surah Al-An`aam which say that Allaah is above His slaves (6:18, 6:61)...
AdamMuslim
Junior Member
Assalamou Alikom Wrahmatou Allah,
Jazaka Allah kheir dear brother for the clarification.
Al hamdouli-Allah I know those ayat and also the hadith. Hence, the general consensus for Ahl assunnah waljamaa is that ALLAH is above his throne above the heavens.
I think I did not express my self quiet well.
What I meant is that I personally never bother asking this kind of philosophical questions which might lead one very far and open the doors for fitnah. May be I am wrong in this particular case but that is all what I meant.
Please correct me if I am wrong
And Allah knows best,
Wassalam
Jazaka Allah kheir dear brother for the clarification.
Al hamdouli-Allah I know those ayat and also the hadith. Hence, the general consensus for Ahl assunnah waljamaa is that ALLAH is above his throne above the heavens.
I think I did not express my self quiet well.
What I meant is that I personally never bother asking this kind of philosophical questions which might lead one very far and open the doors for fitnah. May be I am wrong in this particular case but that is all what I meant.
Please correct me if I am wrong
And Allah knows best,
Wassalam
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
Please take a look at the following Link>>
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=344257
You will find the Evidence from the Quran, the Sunnah, the Sahaba, the Tabi'een, the Early scholars, and a list of the books which mention our Aqeedah from the early times of Islam.
Please take a look at the following Link>>
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=344257
You will find the Evidence from the Quran, the Sunnah, the Sahaba, the Tabi'een, the Early scholars, and a list of the books which mention our Aqeedah from the early times of Islam.
Assalaam walaikum,
We can not try to contain Allah. By responding as to where Allah is we are making the mistake of becoming the Creator.
The created does not understand the Creator. We have no comprehension of the Creator outside knowing His Attributes.
We know we are in His Presence while we live.
We can not try to contain Allah. By responding as to where Allah is we are making the mistake of becoming the Creator.
The created does not understand the Creator. We have no comprehension of the Creator outside knowing His Attributes.
We know we are in His Presence while we live.
Assalamu alaykum
Can u please explain one more time what u mean because I didn't get it. Barakallahu feek.
In short, accept Allah the way he mentioned about Himself and the way the messenger
and the salaf and there will be no problem. Take the verses of Quran literally and there will be no confusion.Allah knows best
Wassalam
Tabassum07
Smile for Allah
But Allah is also closer to us than our jugular vein....
“And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by Our Knowledge)” [Qaaf 50:16]
- most of the mufassireen said that what is meant is that He is near by means of His angels whose task it is to record people’s deeds. And those who said that it means that He is near explained it as meaning that He is near by His knowledge, as is said concerning how He is with us.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/11035/
Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi
By affirming what Allah mentioned for Himself in the Quran, we are not containing or constricting. Rather we are restating what has reached us through revelation. On the day of judgement, we can have a clear conscience if asked by Allah regarding this, as we only mentioned what was in the religious text and didn't add or subtract (or deny) anything from it using our reasoning.
We should refrain from indulging in intellectual interpretation when we read religious text. And our pious scholars (May Allah have mercy on them) have written books on this matter to set aside philosophy/intellect.
Rather we should understand it the way our pious predecessors understood it. Otherwise, we would fall into the deviations of the mutazilites and asharis.
Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi
AdamMuslim
Junior Member
Assalamou Alikomo,
Brother joldas, could you please give us solid evidence to back up your claim about this site as well as Ibn Taymyah ? If you do not have such evidence I think it is more appropriate to add to your posts something like "This is my opinion and Allah knows best" !
I am sorry but I rather hate it when someone lectures me without proofs about any given subject, let alone an issue as important as our faith !
Wassalam
Brother joldas, could you please give us solid evidence to back up your claim about this site as well as Ibn Taymyah ? If you do not have such evidence I think it is more appropriate to add to your posts something like "This is my opinion and Allah knows best" !
I am sorry but I rather hate it when someone lectures me without proofs about any given subject, let alone an issue as important as our faith !
Wassalam
AdamMuslim
Junior Member
Assalamou Alikom warahmatou Allah,
Sorry brother, we've been discussing for long time now but it seems to me that we are not getting anywhere.
I ask Allah to guide us all to follow his right path. The path of our prophet Muhammad PBUH, the sahabha and Attabieen. Ameen Ameen Ameen
Wassalam
Sorry brother, we've been discussing for long time now but it seems to me that we are not getting anywhere.
I ask Allah to guide us all to follow his right path. The path of our prophet Muhammad PBUH, the sahabha and Attabieen. Ameen Ameen Ameen
Wassalam
Ibn Uthaymin
Junior member
Sharh Aqeedah Nasafiyya?
I pass
I pass
ahmed_indian
to Allah we belong
:salam2:
Imam Abu-Haneefa: "Whoever says that he does not know whether his Lord is above the heavens or on earth is a disbeliever (kafir!), because Allah has said (meaning): 'The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. And His Throne is above the seven heavens." Abu Muti al-Balkhi asked him: "What if says that yes Allah is upon His Throne but he does not know whether the throne is above the earth or on earth itself?" To which Abu Haneefa replied, "He is (still) a disbeliever (kafir), because he rejected that Allah is above the heavens , and that the creation make supplications above to their Lord and not downward." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
Imam Shafi: "The sunnah that we follow along with our companions, followers of hadith whom I met and took knowledge from, like Sufiyan, Imam Malik, and others, is that we believe that there is no god except Allah and that Mohammed is His Messenger. And that Allah , the Praised One, is upon His Throne fis-sama (above the heavens). He comes closer to His slaves as He wills. Allah descends to the lower heaven as He wills." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
Imam Abu-Haneefa: "Whoever says that he does not know whether his Lord is above the heavens or on earth is a disbeliever (kafir!), because Allah has said (meaning): 'The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. And His Throne is above the seven heavens." Abu Muti al-Balkhi asked him: "What if says that yes Allah is upon His Throne but he does not know whether the throne is above the earth or on earth itself?" To which Abu Haneefa replied, "He is (still) a disbeliever (kafir), because he rejected that Allah is above the heavens , and that the creation make supplications above to their Lord and not downward." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
Imam Shafi: "The sunnah that we follow along with our companions, followers of hadith whom I met and took knowledge from, like Sufiyan, Imam Malik, and others, is that we believe that there is no god except Allah and that Mohammed is His Messenger. And that Allah , the Praised One, is upon His Throne fis-sama (above the heavens). He comes closer to His slaves as He wills. Allah descends to the lower heaven as He wills." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]