the error of believing that one dies for your sins

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

today, while resting on my bed i couldn't stop thinking about how christians believe that someone died for their sins in order for them to be forgiven. they believe God will forgive them by someone dying for their sins. the problem that i have with this is tha Allah swt is a god of justice and having a innocent man die for the sins of others is not justice to that man. imagine this: your father murders a man, the police are now looking for your dad, in turn they come to your home asking if your dad is there, your dad isn't there so you say no he is not here; but all of the sudden the cops say that's fine we'll take you instead. that wouldn't be justice would it? of course not. the problem that man has is that his sin is personal, it is between him and Allah swt. until that man repents to Allah swt he lives his life unforgiven. when he repents before Allah swt he is forgiven and is welcomed back to Allah swt. he then should live a life that is pleasing to Allah swt to show Allah swt that he doesn't take Allah swt forgiveness for advantage. how can you truly live piously if you always place your sins on the back of an innocent man? you can commit whatever sins you like and easily say that you have salvation because you believe that christ is your personal lord and savior. when you know that your sins are between you and your Lord, you know that you have to make things right in order to be in good standing with him.

i thank Allah swt for giving the message of al quran al kareem to our beloved prophet muhammad

 

[Aapa]

Salam,

You pose an intersting thought. If I may continue...the error lies in the fact that there is no personal accountability. If someone has died and I am free of sin..that leaves little room for me to find spritual solace...I do not need to strive for Paradise. In a sense you can see why this fits into capitalism so well. If my sins are forgiven (antecedent) I can do anything...I can walk over my brothers becasue my behavior has been excused or will be excused on any given sunday. This is also a good reason to justify colonialism (hegemony, today). I have been excused for my behavior. Islam makes us responsible for every thought and deed. I will meet My Maker and I will have to face Him.
We must keep in mind Jesus did not intent for this to happen. Jesus never made the claim he was God. The concept of the trinity is much more political. St. Paul wanted to expand Christianity. The European expansion used the Gospel of Matthew to justify colonialism. It was rather clever to have the concept of the trinity. God comes to earth as a babe, lives, is crucified for the sake of man, and goes back to heaven. All to save the sinners, who can keep on sinning because they have been forgiven...that is a lot of work for God and man has no purpose..not even to praise God because he has been forgiven at the time of baptism. So he can do whatever he wants to on earth. Thank you for reading.

 

[suumaya]

Wa'alaykum wa salaam

You are right but the problem is the original SIN you see if it wasn't for that, they would not come up with this idea that jesus ( alayhi salaam) dead for their SIN (subhanallah) but then again they believe that if they the christians commit a sin and repent to god then god would forgive them, well what i don't understand is don't they know that Adam ( alayhi salaam) was a human being, which means that He can make mistake also sense all human-being are not perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[justoneofmillion]

:salam2:

today, while resting on my bed i couldn't stop thinking about how christians believe that someone died for their sins in order for them to be forgiven. they believe God will forgive them by someone dying for their sins. the problem that i have with this is tha Allah swt is a god of justice and having a innocent man die for the sins of others is not justice to that man. imagine this: your father murders a man, the police are now looking for your dad, in turn they come to your home asking if your dad is there, your dad isn't there so you say no he is not here; but all of the sudden the cops say that's fine we'll take you instead. that wouldn't be justice would it? of course not. the problem that man has is that his sin is personal, it is between him and Allah swt. until that man repents to Allah swt he lives his life unforgiven. when he repents before Allah swt he is forgiven and is welcomed back to Allah swt. he then should live a life that is pleasing to Allah swt to show Allah swt that he doesn't take Allah swt forgiveness for advantage. how can you truly live piously if you always place your sins on the back of an innocent man? you can commit whatever sins you like and easily say that you have salvation because you believe that christ is your personal lord and savior. when you know that your sins are between you and your Lord, you know that you have to make things right in order to be in good standing with him.

i thank Allah swt for giving the message of al quran al kareem to our beloved prophet muhammad

i love this bro , may Allah bless you, having the necesity of believing that anybody could die as a ransom for Allah swt to" learn" to forgive or to or to feel what humans feel in morder to be able to forgive them he who knower of everything!!!!is simply not logical and contradictory with the almightiness of Allah swt , having someone die as a ransom to the devil for him to stop misguiding human beings is also a contradiction to Allmight it implies that is oppressable!!!!! so there you got it both ways bro!having someone die on the cross without him agrreing in fact according to their bible "jesus" pbuh said and prayed "my god my god! why did you leave me"
is a contradiction to the purpose of someone would coming willingly to die instead of preaching percieving it as the goal of his mission!this is called crusifiction(with a big FICTION at the end).seeing al this as sign of love from Allah swt is called neoplatonic philosophie (and i don`t thing that jesus pbuh was a big fan of plato a pagan!).

ALLAH swt didn`t damn adam and eve but he forgave them and gave them the freechoice he damned the devil(iblis ) instead who will have no choice other than to land in hell!!!so ther is no need or whatsoever for someone to die in order to save humanity and to finally give them the free choice because they already had it before jesus was even born!!! ABRAHAM MOSES TOSULEIMAN DAVID peace be upon them all so why would the prophets ordred to follow the law and do good deeds if someone was to come to die anyways to save them?what about the evil doers and the kuffar before jesus pbuh are they now in paradise?!toghether with the believers! so the efforts and rightuosness of the prophets would have been in vain if they end up having the same destiny as those who ignored the message ? this is called injustice !!!! and it is not compatible with Allah`S justice and infalibillity!!!

if you build anything a fridge or a computer for instance, what are you going to do to show the people how to use it and prevent it from burning? are you going to become yourself a fridge burn yourself , so that the other computers don`t burn that`s illogical even an elementary school child would tell you!!!!no you are going to write a manuell an instruction manuell and tell them what to do or not do since you know better being the constructor!


to sum it up jesus pbuh was an honorable messenger of god when he felt down and powerless he would turn and pray to god bowing doin like a muslim!(can yousee god praying to himself) he was circumsised like a muslim he didn`t eat pork like a muslim or mushlam like he used to say in his aramaic mother language he didn`t pray to the holy ghost or to mary or tothe saints he came to fulfill the law of moses because the jews of the time were starting to go astray by taking interest..etc when he has finished preaching he said that he had accomplished his mission which was to preach to "the lost sheep of the house of israel" and to no one else jesus pbuh wasn´t a capitalist nor a communist but a muslim !!!!!!and he and the first jewishchristians would never have acceoted such statements of god being unable to save his own creation other than by begetting a son with only purpose of sacrificing him in such a bruttal manner because of the catastrophic behaviour of adam and eve as if it wasn`t enough that they have being banned from paradise as if it wasn`t enough that we are here living in a world full of injustic wars , and hate loosing our time telling the christians to read and analise their book better!!!

 

[nyerekareem]

i also get confused when i hear christian prayer as well. why? because when they pray they say father we ask for xyz and then they end the prayer in jesuss (pbuh ) name. if jesus is god to them, why did they start the prayer with father but ask these things in jesus' name?

 

[apocalypse77]

christianity really to me is teachings of satan.sometimes im wondering how many christians out there who really religiously practise their faith.the reason pple have this "christianity" tag along them was cos theyre atheist but dont want pple to think so and tag a "secular liberal" religion so as not ot make their atheist beleives obvious

 

[ShyHijabi]

Asalaam Alekum,

Christianity is complicated...some Christians believe Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God and others (the Catholics for instance) believe he is God in Flesh. We cannot say "All Christians believe this or all Christians believe that." For it simply is not true and makes us appear ignorant and sterotypical.

I've heard some people describe the sacrifice of the "Son of God" as comparable to the sacrifice called upon by Abraham (pbuh). Ismael(pbuh) was blemishless and sinless and yet Allah asked for his sacrifice....later we find out as a test of faith but at the time Abraham (pbuh) didn't know this. One Christian told me that anyone understands the most hardest sacrifice to be asked to make, is of our child's life. She said that God knew we are stupid creatures and therefore made a sacrifice that even the most simple minded among us could understand. Do I believe this line of thinking? Obviously not, but I could see how she would believe it and actually feel great humbleness with this belief.

The Christians that have spoken to me do not feel this was a matter of "justice" but rather one of supreme sacrifice. They feel there is no forgiveness except through the grace of God and that even after they accept the tenents of their faith (Jesus (pbuh) being sacrificed for their sins) that they must strive to live a good life according to the commands of God.

I researched Christianity at length while searching for the truth and could see why they would feel the way they do, but could not subscribe to their belief system. But I will not ridicule their way of believing because in their hearts they truly wish to please Allah, they are simply misguided. Wasalaam.

~Sarah

 

[justoneofmillion]

not of justice but "sacrifice" saying that god has beggeoten a son which is an animal act, that god has got a mother!! and at the same time that mother is is the mother of his son,!!!!!is not a sign of love but the biggest blasphemie am sorry sister!!! having evangelique churches and organisations hunting for muslim orphans and going in times of war in muslim countries for missionary purposes and taking advantage of the wickness and illetracy of some emigrants telling them lies about their religion and their prophet,is called cowardeness, sending leaflets in mailboxes warning from the growth of islam in the west and describe in it as a satanique religion !!!!am not saying that they are all like that but be carefull sister be carefull!!!!!!the shaytan sees us from where we do not see him and approaches us with the most enchanting and charming smile .if they were really sincere in the love and worship of god why don`t just analise their bibles more than 27 books in the new testament!!!!! and yet not even two of these books are identical on certain issues!!!and they persist telling the poor and regular christian people it is the book of god even if themselves don`t really believe it (27 gods that wrote 27 different bibles,or one god that had to correct himself 27 times!) nowhere in the bible jesus says" i am god or worship me " and there are tons of sons of god in the bible which is actually a metaphorical expression in the jewish language to describe the attributes of god being protector and carrying! but not to be taken to be taken word wordly like they did. they quote "jesus said he who never had a sin,may throw the first stone " or something like that and they still don`t get it jesus is telling them that for them to understand that nobody is holy besides Allah swt an that he is the only one who deserves to be worshiped who forgives the sins the only judge yet they still worship saints an pictures!show me one verse in their own self made bible where abraham moses jesus david or salomon are worshiping the holy ghost!you won`t find it but take a brief look at the old egyptian,greek and zoroastian, myths:doinisis,mitra, osiris, and there you`ll find where they got their trinity and crusifixtion idea from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don`t mean to hurt any feelings a but if we have to have a dialogue than areal one and i will never renounce of speking the truth wa kafa billahi wakila!

 

[apocalypse77]

Wa'alaykum wa salaam

You are right but the problem is the original SIN you see if it wasn't for that, they would not come up with this idea that jesus ( alayhi salaam) dead for their SIN (subhanallah) but then again they believe that if they the christians commit a sin and repent to god then god would forgive them, well what i don't understand is don't they know that Adam ( alayhi salaam) was a human being, which means that He can make mistake also sense all human-being are not perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the irony of it all is that christians beleive god didnt forgive adam and eve and that were all born with sins seems to contradict with the fact that once i accept jesus ill go to heaven

here in singapore , the christian missionaries can be quite aggresive and keep threatening the non christians (major religions in singapore include buddhists,taoists,hindus,islam) that theyre gonna go to hell if they dont accept jesus

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaam,

In my search for Truth I looked into Christianity and as you can see I did not agree with it. (As I am a revert into Islam) They New Testament books were written by the "Disciples" of Jesus (pbuh) and the Chritians believe them to be divinely inspired, they believe their book to be flawless and unaltered, despite evidence to the contrary.

As far as the Christians going to other nations are seeking conversion of illiterate, poverty stricken peoples...well that is a tenant in their religion. They do not see it as evil but as "Saving people from eternal damnation to hell." I agree that there is no where in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) said "Worship me as God" but the Christians have interpreted certain passages to be suggesting that. John 3:16 is case in point. Even if the Bible did say that we must remember that it has been distorted and added to and that is why the Christians are misled.

By and far the Christians I know are good and gentle people...and furthermore they are People of the Book and must be treated with the kindness and respect that carries with it. There are so many parts of Christianity that are contradictory that's it not even funny. The Trinity idea actually came with the Council of Nicea where the church tried to make it seem as if they were not polytheistic....as the trinity really is..worshipping three gods.

If we wish more Christians to find their way to truth we must be good Muslims and not try to tear their beliefs apart...as that will most likely cause them to be more defensive and have prejudice against Islam. We, you and I, have been favored by Allah to be shown the truth, and we need to thank Him everyday for this mercy. They have not found their way and we must be patient with them...if they approach us and ask questions then it is our obligation to give the answers if we are able. But saying they are followers of Shaitaan and ridiculing what they believe to be true has no purpose. But for the mercy of Allah we would be in their shoes. Waslaam.

~Sarah

 

[justoneofmillion]

Salaam,

In my search for Truth I looked into Christianity and as you can see I did not agree with it. (As I am a revert into Islam) They New Testament books were written by the "Disciples" of Jesus (pbuh) and the Chritians believe them to be divinely inspired, they believe their book to be flawless and unaltered, despite evidence to the contrary.

As far as the Christians going to other nations are seeking conversion of illiterate, poverty stricken peoples...well that is a tenant in their religion. They do not see it as evil but as "Saving people from eternal damnation to hell." I agree that there is no where in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) said "Worship me as God" but the Christians have interpreted certain passages to be suggesting that. John 3:16 is case in point. Even if the Bible did say that we must remember that it has been distorted and added to and that is why the Christians are misled.

By and far the Christians I know are good and gentle people...and furthermore they are People of the Book and must be treated with the kindness and respect that carries with it. There are so many parts of Christianity that are contradictory that's it not even funny. The Trinity idea actually came with the Council of Nicea where the church tried to make it seem as if they were not polytheistic....as the trinity really is..worshipping three gods.

If we wish more Christians to find their way to truth we must be good Muslims and not try to tear their beliefs apart...as that will most likely cause them to be more defensive and have prejudice against Islam. We, you and I, have been favored by Allah to be shown the truth, and we need to thank Him everyday for this mercy. They have not found their way and we must be patient with them...if they approach us and ask questions then it is our obligation to give the answers if we are able. But saying they are followers of Shaitaan and ridiculing what they believe to be true has no purpose. But for the mercy of Allah we would be in their shoes. Waslaam.

~Sarah

i respect cherishe and agree with what you said sister, i also have christian and jewish friends and there is no conflict between us as far as the human aspect is concerned but the brother was kinda confused and i have seenone pakistani sister going astray because of that on an evangelical tv they were showing how she used to wear the hidjab and now she is fighting and talking bad about islam!!!am just saying that christian churches don`t do their missions from a position of force anymore since islam is here now ! and they know it ! they have been trying to christianise the whole world by force in latin america for example africa and asia the only places they failed to do so was in house of islam no matter how many colonasations they may have practiced no mather how many crusades they were always sent back home !!and now islam allhamdulilah is growing everywhere they can still go to the moon or mars they will find muslims there!!!!christianity has failed to keep morals and ethiques in the western societies that`s why we see all this propagand ,and wars on islam that`s why we see sisters wearing hijab being looked at as "strange" because a hijabe that looked so good on mary doesn`t look the same when it comes to some sister! they point the finger at islam and say oh you are violent and you should act with reason that`s hypocrisy am sorry it was the muslims who brought reason and rationality to the christian theologie people like san tommaso d`acquino learned from ibn rushd,ibn sina, al ghasali........etc but they do not teach those things in wester schools obviously!instead they nurture their hate relying om books like la divina commedia or some jean mary voltaire rubbish it is still not considered a diffecsciency not to know about islam in the west even if islam and the arabs have contributed a lot too the developement of the world as we know it today , instead they keep poniting fingers at muslims and forget that it was not the muslims who created the cucux clan who us to burn black people after nailing them on the cross for the sake of jesus, it was not the muslims who killed 6 million jews and they trea us as anti semites eventhough islam is itself a semitic religion! allhamdulilah muslims never racial an ethnic cleansing like the west did it was not the muslims who made the nuclesr bomb or the muslim that are attacking europe right now!!! the modern bible critic as done by great christian teologians like HANS Küng , paul schwarznau,gerd lüdemann and john hick are themselves confirming now what Islam has been saying for 1400 years in relation to the acctual historical jesus pbuh so am asking you this why does the ordinary chrisian folk not know about it?this new century is showing all the signs for it to be religious again and it is up to prepare our "troops"

 

[apocalypse77]

:astag: May allah guide the people of the book to the right paths..sm1 is right..they do have good intentions to worship Allah but their theology of Allah had been distorted.