If Jesus was GOD

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abdo

Junior Member
assalamou alaykum
my brothers and sisters

If Jesus was GOD


If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of
crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?

The "God" Title:
How come Christians take the "God" (theos in Greek) title literally with Jesus in Isiah 9:6 and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called Gods ?
The Prophets who were called "God" in the Bible are as follows:
Prophet Moses in Exodus 7:1
The Devil in Corinthians 4:4 (the word for God in this verse is theos in Greek, the same used for Jesus that was translated as "God")
Multiple Prophets in Psalms 82:6
King David in Psalm 45:3
Note: The only unique title given to GOD in the Bible that was not given to others at all are Jehova, GOD, and GOD LORD. "God", "Most Mighty" and "Almighty One" are titles that were given to Jesus, other Prophets and to Satan himself in the Bible.

Very important note: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and Hebrew the father of the house can be called the God of the house? Jesus was the God (father or leader) of his people and their father according to Isiah 9:6. Jesus being the leader and the king, it is normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isiah 9:6), and because he is their father he automatically becomes their God. My father is my God in Arabic and Hebrew.

The "Son" Title:
How come Christians take the "God's Son" title literally with Jesus and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called the Sons of God?
In John 3:16 Jesus was called God's only Begotten Son.
In Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my firstborn." Isreal was called God's First Son.
In Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim is God's First Son and First Born.In Psalm 2:7 "... Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." David was called God's Begotten Son.

Were Jesus's Miracle's Unique?
If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then what about the others who performed the same miracles?

Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).

[Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2 Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2 Kings 6:17,20).

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings 4:34). Even Elisha's dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings 13:21).
Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9)"

In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him, which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' "

Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, ..."

The Point that I am trying to prove:

Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross .
 

hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu
Jazakumullah khair for sharing that. May Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala put Barakah in our efforts to spread Islam.
 

BGfromGB

Junior Member
Jesus IS God.

Hi there You have probably read my previous posts. But here is why I believe in what I believe.

Is Jesus G-d? This is how I see it. I ask myself another question.

Can G-d manifest himself in human form? My answer is an emphatic "YES".

Not only do the scriptures allude to this, but surprisingly so does the Qur'an. I'm not sure which says this, but in my reading the Qur'an, I came across it.

Now according to Islam, and the Quran, Jesus could not be G-d because he had to eat, drink, and sleep. God does not. Jesus "was" a mere mortal flesh and bones man just like you and me. He just had extra powers that none of us had. Am I right so far?

If this criteria is the case, then it must equally be true that when Jesus the flesh and bones man was taken "UP" by Allah, he still had to eat, drink, and sleep. Am I correct here?

Question now is, where was Jesus taken to. Heaven? Yes. This is verified by the prophet Mohammed. Correct?

If Jesus is in heaven, where is it? In outer space or inner space?

If its in outer space and using the criteria above, then how can a flesh and bones man, who has to breath, survive out there in space.

If Heaven IS in the stratosphere, then where is Jesus?

My next question. Jesus was taken up by Allah as confirmed in the Qur'an. Correct? That was over 2000 years ago according to Biblical records.

How is it possible that a flesh and bones man, despite all the criteria above, still be very much alive this day?

How does this tie in with the fact, (not mentioned in your post above.Why?)
that Jesus said "I and my father are one" ?

These are the questions that I ask of myself.

Now if I believe that quote of Jesus I mentioned above, then yes, by saying that, Jesus HAS answered all my questions I have posed above.

I have no reason to think otherwise.

But one thing is clear. Whether Jusus is God, or is G-d manifested in human form, Jesus who you regard as a prophet and messenger, is far, far more than a human prophet of messenger, HE IS at least the son of God.

It was interesting to read your thread. Your sure were at pains to prove your point. But why did you omit critical issues such as John 1:1 and Jesus' other sayings such as the beginning and the end and so on
 

hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
Hi there You have probably read my previous posts. But here is why I believe in what I believe.

Is Jesus G-d? This is how I see it. I ask myself another question.

Can G-d manifest himself in human form? My answer is an emphatic "YES".

Not only do the scriptures allude to this, but surprisingly so does the Qur'an. I'm not sure which says this, but in my reading the Qur'an, I came across it.

Now according to Islam, and the Quran, Jesus could not be G-d because he had to eat, drink, and sleep. God does not. Jesus "was" a mere mortal flesh and bones man just like you and me. He just had extra powers that none of us had. Am I right so far?

If this criteria is the case, then it must equally be true that when Jesus the flesh and bones man was taken "UP" by Allah, he still had to eat, drink, and sleep. Am I correct here?

Question now is, where was Jesus taken to. Heaven? Yes. This is verified by the prophet Mohammed. Correct?

If Jesus is in heaven, where is it? In outer space or inner space?

If its in outer space and using the criteria above, then how can a flesh and bones man, who has to breath, survive out there in space.

If Heaven IS in the stratosphere, then where is Jesus?

My next question. Jesus was taken up by Allah as confirmed in the Qur'an. Correct? That was over 2000 years ago according to Biblical records.

How is it possible that a flesh and bones man, despite all the criteria above, still be very much alive this day?

How does this tie in with the fact, (not mentioned in your post above.Why?)
that Jesus said "I and my father are one" ?

These are the questions that I ask of myself.

Now if I believe that quote of Jesus I mentioned above, then yes, by saying that, Jesus HAS answered all my questions I have posed above.

I have no reason to think otherwise.

But one thing is clear. Whether Jusus is God, or is G-d manifested in human form, Jesus who you regard as a prophet and messenger, is far, far more than a human prophet of messenger, HE IS at least the son of God.

It was interesting to read your thread. Your sure were at pains to prove your point. But why did you omit critical issues such as John 1:1 and Jesus' other sayings such as the beginning and the end and so on

As salamu alaykum BG

Your words are nothing but lies. Where in The Holy Quran you find that it alludes that God can manifest in human form. You try to talk about the jesus, go to stratosphere even but just have you read the Story of the people of cave.

Go and read the Chapter Al Kahf ( number 18) with its interpretation and with a clean mind and heart, not pre occupied with false information. How did they sleep for hundreds of years without drinking water even? Almighty Allah can do whatever he wants. If you talk about finding the heavens or Jesus, before trying to figure that out clear your conception as to WHO IS GOD? WHO IS THE CREATOR? HOW, WHAT , WHERE etc put any kind of questions and try to learn more about THE CREATOR FIRST. Learning is a step by step process, so put your steps slowly and carefully. Or else you will end up in deep sea of illusion and confusion.

Read about Tawheed

Also know WHO IS ALLAH?

Also IS THERE A CREATOR OF THIS UNIVERSE

Also I feel this site would clear all those scientific queries and dogmas

Now it does not give us pain to tell the truth. Because we are slaves of The Almighty Allah. The brother did not go through any pain to say those, rather its joy and gives pleasure to us even we do the smallest of things that would earn Allah pleasure for us.

wa/salam
 

BGfromGB

Junior Member
About my lies.

As salamu alaykum BG

Your words are nothing but lies. Where in The Holy Quran you find that it alludes that God can manifest in human form. You try to talk about the jesus, go to stratosphere even but just have you read the Story of the people of cave.

Go and read the Chapter Al Kahf ( number 18) with its interpretation and with a clean mind and heart, not pre occupied with false information. How did they sleep for hundreds of years without drinking water even? Almighty Allah can do whatever he wants. If you talk about finding the heavens or Jesus, before trying to figure that out clear your conception as to WHO IS GOD? WHO IS THE CREATOR? HOW, WHAT , WHERE etc put any kind of questions and try to learn more about THE CREATOR FIRST. Learning is a step by step process, so put your steps slowly and carefully. Or else you will end up in deep sea of illusion and confusion.

Read about Tawheed

Also know WHO IS ALLAH?

Also IS THERE A CREATOR OF THIS UNIVERSE

Also I feel this site would clear all those scientific queries and dogmas

Now it does not give us pain to tell the truth. Because we are slaves of The Almighty Allah. The brother did not go through any pain to say those, rather its joy and gives pleasure to us even we do the smallest of things that would earn Allah pleasure for us.

wa/salam
Please sir, I hope you are not upset.

All I am doing is expressing my belief in saying to you that Jesus is not just a prophet, but far more than just a prophet. I gave my reasons. If these reasons are not legitimate, then please let me know And give reasons why. This is exactly what this thread is about. "If Jesus was God". This is all about learning. It is not about lies. It's more about interpretation - how christians and muslims view the status of Jesus. I simply gave mine and asked how it fits in with Islamic thought.

Nowhere did I say that God can manifest himself in human form. What I did say is that the Qur'an DOES say that God CAN do ANYTHING. I take that to mean that he CAN manifest himself in human form if he wishes.Is that to be taken as a lie.

Yes I do know about the creator. But what does the scriptures and Qur'an say about Jesus? That is the issue I am bringing up here. Is that wrong?
 

abdallahbilal

Long Live Palestine
Please sir, I hope you are not upset.

All I am doing is expressing my belief in saying to you that Jesus is not just a prophet, but far more than just a prophet. I gave my reasons. If these reasons are not legitimate, then please let me know And give reasons why. This is exactly what this thread is about. "If Jesus was God". This is all about learning. It is not about lies. It's more about interpretation - how christians and muslims view the status of Jesus. I simply gave mine and asked how it fits in with Islamic thought.

Nowhere did I say that God can manifest himself in human form. What I did say is that the Qur'an DOES say that God CAN do ANYTHING. I take that to mean that he CAN manifest himself in human form if he wishes.Is that to be taken as a lie.

Yes I do know about the creator. But what does the scriptures and Qur'an say about Jesus? That is the issue I am bringing up here. Is that wrong?

Dear BGfromGB,
I appreciate it that u are so interested in peacefull dialogues about Jesus (peace be upon him), and I'm so interested in sharing what I know with you to the best of my ability, with peaceful debate.

Sure God can DO whatever he wishes... But the question of of manifestation in Human form is not about doing, it's about BEING and the NATURE of God, but not at all about doing. If God can't BE a man, that does not mean he can't DO something, this thing is about the difference between BEING and DOING, and God's omnipotence (ultimate supremacy and power) is about DOING.

Plus dear BGfromGB, why should God almighty BE in man, no matter how honorable and respectful this man is? God created man and all the prophets but he is God and they remain very great and honorable men.

We as muslims believe that Jesus and Muhammad and Muses are very great prophets, but prophets also knew that people, out of extreme love of the prophets, tend to deify them, so (we believe) prophets Muhammad, Jesus, and Muses (peace be upon them all) took the precautionary steps of warning us not to deify them. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) even humbly warned us not make ritualistic visits to his grave and no son outlived him so that we won't deify him or his descendants.

Plus dear BGfromGB, in Christianity, often the word "beget", "begot" and their different variations are used to describe the relationship between God and Jesus. Pardon me, but we as Muslims believe that such words, which connote biological and physical operations and relationship, do not fit God.

Please watch this for what we Muslims believe about Jesus (peace be upon him) and God almighty.

http://www.youtubeislam.com/view_video.php?viewkey=70fd093ee8a9bf8ae7d0
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
Hi there You have probably read my previous posts. But here is why I believe in what I believe.

Is Jesus G-d? This is how I see it. I ask myself another question.

Can G-d manifest himself in human form? My answer is an emphatic "YES".

Not only do the scriptures allude to this, but surprisingly so does the Qur'an. I'm not sure which says this, but in my reading the Qur'an, I came across it.

You came across what now? I'm sorry... and I don't want to sound rude or anything... but until you post me the entire verse where the Quran suggests that Jesus (as) was a god, I'll have to say you are lying. You have proved no proof of your statement, just a vague claim. Either that, or you are reading what you want to read.

Now according to Islam, and the Quran, Jesus could not be G-d because he had to eat, drink, and sleep. God does not. Jesus "was" a mere mortal flesh and bones man just like you and me. He just had extra powers that none of us had. Am I right so far?

If this criteria is the case, then it must equally be true that when Jesus the flesh and bones man was taken "UP" by Allah, he still had to eat, drink, and sleep. Am I correct here?

Question now is, where was Jesus taken to. Heaven? Yes. This is verified by the prophet Mohammed. Correct?

If Jesus is in heaven, where is it? In outer space or inner space?

If its in outer space and using the criteria above, then how can a flesh and bones man, who has to breath, survive out there in space.

If Heaven IS in the stratosphere, then where is Jesus?

According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet because it is clearly stated that he was a prophet and a messenger.

In Islam, heaven is nothing like anything in this entire universe.

http://kalamullah.com/bilal-assad.html

Scroll down and download the lectures on heaven. This universe compared to even the first level of heaven is like a ring in a desert. Can you imagine the vast difference?

Your entire question is under the assumption that heaven is in this universe or dimension. Please listen to those lectures.

My next question. Jesus was taken up by Allah as confirmed in the Qur'an. Correct? That was over 2000 years ago according to Biblical records.

How is it possible that a flesh and bones man, despite all the criteria above, still be very much alive this day?

How does this tie in with the fact, (not mentioned in your post above.Why?)
that Jesus said "I and my father are one" ?

These are the questions that I ask of myself.

Now if I believe that quote of Jesus I mentioned above, then yes, by saying that, Jesus HAS answered all my questions I have posed above.

I have no reason to think otherwise.

But one thing is clear. Whether Jusus is God, or is G-d manifested in human form, Jesus who you regard as a prophet and messenger, is far, far more than a human prophet of messenger, HE IS at least the son of God.

What do you mean flesh and bones person is still alive? Your question doesn't make much sense. Peace out.
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
Hi BG

Dear BGfromGB,
Lets check the legitimacy of your views about Jesus in the very light of the Bible itself. The Bible says,
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a Son of Man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Numbers 23:19

Now let us see what Bible says about Jesus in his very own words and the words of Jesus' greatest desciple, Paul.
Paul says,
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
You can find many more instances like this one.

Now let us see what Jesus says about himself,
Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
Matthew 8:20
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." '
Luke 7:34

Jesus loved calling himself Son of Man more than anything else and i think Jesus knew scriptures better than anyone else, so he should be knowing about Numbers 23:19 as well but, still he kept calling himself a Son of Man, why ?

And Jesus, instead of calling himself God he called himself a prophet, instead of calling himself God he called himself Son of Man ( Ben Adam or Bar Enash).
Though i have not been able to find a single statement of Jesus Christ where he called himself Son of God but since as you like to say that ' Jesus was atleast 'Son of God' '. So let us see what is meant by the term 'Son of God' according to the Bible, and not just the meaning but also let us see how many other Sons God had apart from Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Romans 8:14
because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
So according to the Bible Peacemakers and those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. So God did not have just one son but sons by tons.
'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD."
LUKE 3:38
Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN."
EXODUS 4:22
Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. "
PSALMS 2:7
and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN,"
JEREMIAH 31:9
So God have many sons according to bible and they are peacemakers and those who are led and guided by God. In this sense every Prophet of God was a Son of God.

Take care,
Regards
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
:salam2:

This site is for correcting misconceptions about Islam, and not for debating. Please read website rules. Interfaith Debates not allowed. These forums are not made for people to try and debate Muslims over any issues. Rather, this site is for Islamic information.

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