SHOULD A MUSLIM PARTICIPATE IN democracy ???
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Waseem Hanif
Banned
:salam2:
LOL ISLAM is Democracy. Islam says that a King/President has to make
decisions together with the people of the state.
Many people think that Islam is something like communism. :astag:
LOL ISLAM is Democracy. Islam says that a King/President has to make
decisions together with the people of the state.
Many people think that Islam is something like communism. :astag:
Wa alaikumassalaam,
huh? where did you get that from? Islam says the Khaliph rules under Allaahs law. What democracy?
Please refer to Isra's post.
Voting and democracy, etc....
amyaishazouaoui
Junior Member
:salam2:
It is important for us to.
From what I see here in the UK the BNP are gaining seats purely because people are not voting. If we do not vote, or stand for election, the BNP may take over the country and then we would be in really big trouble!!!!
We need people to represent us at a high political level and to speak out for us, without this we are never going to get what we need!!
It is important for us to.
From what I see here in the UK the BNP are gaining seats purely because people are not voting. If we do not vote, or stand for election, the BNP may take over the country and then we would be in really big trouble!!!!
We need people to represent us at a high political level and to speak out for us, without this we are never going to get what we need!!
visionusman
being content
From the Quran dear brother. The Qurean has given the right of shura' to every muslim, even those who have committed a crime and have either been punished or forgiven. After the Battle of Uhud where because of the disobedience of the Prophet SAW by some sahaba resulted in the martyrdom of 70 sahaba and vctory was converted in defeat Allah SWT commanded the Messenger SAW in the Quran to forgive those men and and to then consult them in future matters of governance and decision making.
Further more no ruler can be chosen to govern the muslim people without him being chosen by the people. All other forms of leadership are not allowed in islam. Even Hazrat Aby Bakr RA went in to the mosque and stood before the people to ask them if they would rather choose some one else and he even suggested Hazrat Umer RA. However the people voted or chose hazrat Abu Bakr. then the example of Hazrat Usman over Hazrat Ali where the memebers of the council nominated by Hazrat Umar even said that they wanted to make Ali the next Caliph but we knocked on EVERY door of madina and the people chose you Usman therefore u are the right full caliph. The Prophet SAW had once said that in the presence of Abu Bakr neither the ummah nor Alah would accept any other leader. Thus the will of the Ummah was considered important. As for the problem regarding participating in a non muslim democracy, the answer is is that the Prophet SAW said that he would honour the agreement that was conied before Islam regarding safe Gaurding the rights of travellers. That was an agreement by the non muslims but the Prophet SAW honoured it. Then the example of the sahaba sent to the state of the Najash where they chose/elected a leader amongst them to represent them before the courts of the non muslim rulers.
So we should not be hasty in our criticism of others. Of course the law of Allah should not be changed in an islmic state but the ruler should still be elected by the will of the people and here we should elect our leaders who would represent us in the assemblies.
:salam2:
This is purely my opinion... but if by voting you can achieve the lesser of two evils then what's wrong with that? I mean, I accept the different opinions of scholars. BUT I have heard some, and i think it's mentioned in brother globalpeace's post from the above link that if by voting you can get a person who does less harm to the Muslims and supports more... acceptance I guess then you are allowed to do so.
In one of the posts it was said that Islam is democracy. That's true, yet to be more precise it is an Autocratic Democratic Rule.
Quoting The History of Islam
"The type of rule Islam has formed on this earth is known as Autocratic Democratic Rule. The system of rule suggested by Islam lies between pure democracy and pure autocracy. Every Islamic section has its say in the election of caliphate, king or ruler. In the election of the most suitable and most deserving person for the rule or caliphate, all possible fair means should be made use of, and the best person to be elected at all costs. The Muslims need no institution of law or constitution or formation of any modern system of government, for they possess the noble Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet
...."
There's more, but I don't want to type it and I think it's plenty understandable. Islam gives democracy in choosing the best in Islamic knowledge to be made the leader, yet in doing so also binds everyone into following that leader completely in all matters unless it is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.
This is purely my opinion... but if by voting you can achieve the lesser of two evils then what's wrong with that? I mean, I accept the different opinions of scholars. BUT I have heard some, and i think it's mentioned in brother globalpeace's post from the above link that if by voting you can get a person who does less harm to the Muslims and supports more... acceptance I guess then you are allowed to do so.
In one of the posts it was said that Islam is democracy. That's true, yet to be more precise it is an Autocratic Democratic Rule.
Quoting The History of Islam
"The type of rule Islam has formed on this earth is known as Autocratic Democratic Rule. The system of rule suggested by Islam lies between pure democracy and pure autocracy. Every Islamic section has its say in the election of caliphate, king or ruler. In the election of the most suitable and most deserving person for the rule or caliphate, all possible fair means should be made use of, and the best person to be elected at all costs. The Muslims need no institution of law or constitution or formation of any modern system of government, for they possess the noble Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet
...."There's more, but I don't want to type it and I think it's plenty understandable. Islam gives democracy in choosing the best in Islamic knowledge to be made the leader, yet in doing so also binds everyone into following that leader completely in all matters unless it is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.
visionusman
being content
sorry abt the typing/spelling errors in my earlier message. i was eating with my right hand and typing with my left
Assalaamualaikum
Look at what waseem hanif said and what youve replied.
The people choose the khaliph but from then there is no need for consultation.
Look at what waseem hanif said and what youve replied.
The people choose the khaliph but from then there is no need for consultation.
Why do the lesser of two evils when you dont even have to do an evil?
visionusman
being content
why should there be a confrontation on every issue. please read all of my mail including the part abt Allah's commmand after Uhud
alkathiri
As-Shafaa'i(Brother)
:salam2:
i have, 3 times now, having a shura isnt democracy, its consultation because at the end the khaliph makes the decisions. Its not majority rules.
visionusman
being content
Yes that's all part of the plan. Any way coming back to the topic, whoever says that the Caliph of Islam is not bound by the shura of the people he rules should read the quran again and also the history of islam particularly the history of the Khulafa e Rashideen
wa alaykum salam
i don't get it really
in the FIRST part I was talking about a non-muslim country and living there and having to vote under THEIR democracy. For the SECOND bit I was refferring to a Muslim country and how their system of government should be.No what i meant by that is if you have two people running for governer. One sides with Bushy and is pro Iraq war, is known to make bigotory statements and has aided in the closure of masjids... the other wants out of the Iraq war, agrees to allow masjids to be constructed on Commercial grounds without interference, and is generally tolerant to Muslims.
IF given the choice who would you help vote for? What if, YOU and the rest of the 30% Muslim community in that area decide "you know what? one vote won't make a difference and... this is an INNOVATION anyway!" soooo the first politician gets the seat and makes life horrible and you have nothing to say. On the other hand, had you and that 30% voted for the other guy, you may have made a difference and had... and easier time to practice and spread your Deen.
Allah knows best. I'm not of voting age anyway
wasalam
visionusman
being content
My dear brother the calipha does not have an option of imposing his will at all. That is completely in correct. Not only should he listen to the will of the people but he is also very much bound by it. Just read the Quran carefully and u will realize this ur self. Besides do u remember that incident when Hazrat Salman Farsi RA stood up before Hazrat Umar RA and said we will not obey u unless u explain where u got that extra cloth from. Islam is not a dictatorship at all.
I havent said anything about dictatorship, but i know why you are saying it, and im not thinking like that at all.
The incident between Salman farsi (ra) and Umar (ra), i dont know it let alone remember it, so if you could tell me inshaAllaah, jazakallaah.
:salam2:
If you dont mind... umm... just one thing. Sometimes i think of pure Democracy as equvilant to giving a ten year old some eggs, cake mix, and oil and being told to bake a cake. Perhaps some ten year olds can do it... but most cannot.
People have a right to what they say, as long as they do so with knowledge. In an Islamic State, Muslims have every right to challenge their rulers if and when he makes even a slight deviation from the Path set by Allah and His Messenger
BUT at the same time it is required that each and every Muslim follow every order of the ruler, without even thinking of revolt against him (as long as it's in line with Islam) Dicscipline is required in maintaining a country and to do so we would need aid from both sides. A ruler is asked to be considerate of the peoples' feelings and thoughts, yet at the end if he still finds something to be better, and more in line with Islam or better for the people, they are required to follow him. Not dicatorship, but a bit of authoritarian control. Which is perfectly healthy and needed.
visionusman
being content
That is correct.:salam2:
If you dont mind... umm... just one thing. Sometimes i think of pure Democracy as equvilant to giving a ten year old some eggs, cake mix, and oil and being told to bake a cake. Perhaps some ten year olds can do it... but most cannot.
People have a right to what they say, as long as they do so with knowledge. In an Islamic State, Muslims have every right to challenge their rulers if and when he makes even a slight deviation from the Path set by Allah and His Messenger
A ruler is asked to be considerate of the peoples' feelings and thoughts, yet at the end if he still finds something to be better, and more in line with Islam or better for the people, they are required to follow him. Not dicatorship, but a bit of authoritarian control. Which is perfectly healthy and needed.
I know, whats your point?wa alaykum salam
i don't get it really
No what i meant by that is if you have two people running for governer. One sides with Bushy and is pro Iraq war, is known to make bigotory statements and has aided in the closure of masjids... the other wants out of the Iraq war, agrees to allow masjids to be constructed on Commercial grounds without interference, and is generally tolerant to Muslims.
IF given the choice who would you help vote for? What if, YOU and the rest of the 30% Muslim community in that area decide "you know what? one vote won't make a difference and... this is an INNOVATION anyway!" soooo the first politician gets the seat and makes life horrible and you have nothing to say. On the other hand, had you and that 30% voted for the other guy, you may have made a difference and had... and easier time to practice and spread your Deen.
Allah knows best. I'm not of voting age anyway
wasalam
Thats a nice story. I wouldnt vote, wouldnt do the evil, which is HARAAM, dont you think Allaah has given you a way that isnt forbidden?
An easier way to spread the deen? Come on! stop it with the hypothetical situations when Islaam isnt a hypothetical way of life.
Oh yeh
wa alaikumassalaam.
basically somebody accused Umar (ra) of being an unjust ruler in front of a huge crowd because he thought the distribution of the booty had been unfair and Umar (ra) had got more for himself because he was leader, i think thats what the bro is saying.. (it was ok though Umar (ra) hadnt done that) but,
The fact that someone stood up to Umar ra doesnt and cannot be used to justify 'democracy' as the correct way of ruling, it only proves the justice of islam in ruling over a people. i dont get how people can attempt to force islam into these pre-concieved man made laws of 'democracy' an 'socialism' which are seriously flawed theories. Shari'ah is divine law sent by Allah, we ae stupid to look at alternatives!
ofcourse islam is not a dictatorship, a democracy, or whatever u want it to be, or feel comfortable calling it!
"less harm" u mean giving $130000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to israel as opposed to something like $15000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.50
yeah?
wa-salam
:salam2:
look brother, in todays times the muslims are the ONLY people WILLING to agree on anything in a just and peaceful way and the situation ure referring to is one where justice played a part, but atm we muslims can give give give and they will take take take and thats not an agreement we can 'honour' or should be stupid enough to agree to.
Now thats democracy but it isnt justice. only islam gives u justice.
from missionislam.com: please read.
wa-salam
look brother, in todays times the muslims are the ONLY people WILLING to agree on anything in a just and peaceful way and the situation ure referring to is one where justice played a part, but atm we muslims can give give give and they will take take take and thats not an agreement we can 'honour' or should be stupid enough to agree to.
what? hasty in criticising the government? well no im not hasty here.
can u define a 'democracy' brother? because a democracy deosnt just mean u have votes and u elect a leader, the definition of their democracy is also to have someone to vote for...so who represents u brother? are u willing to say who ure voting for in the next election? sorry to say brother a this rosy democracy which ure living in the UK, the first past the post system u cannot do a thing, ure powerless! 49% against 51% for and the 51 rule over 49 simple as that.
Now thats democracy but it isnt justice. only islam gives u justice.
Have you (O Mohammed) seen him who has taken as his Ilah (God) his own desire ? Would you then be a wakil (protecting guide) over him ? Or do you think that most of them hear and understand? They are only like cattle - nay; they are even farther astray from the path (i.e. even worse than cattle) .(Qur'an 25:43-44)
from missionislam.com: please read.
"The western civilization is founded on three pillars: secularism, nationalism and democracy. As for the third principle: (that is) democracy or ascribing Godhead to man, by joining the previous pillars, the picture which encompasses within its frame suffering and the weariness of the world becomes complete. With democracy the inhabitants of a place are free concerning that which fulfils their social welfare, and that the law of such a place stems from their desires.
Secularism has liberated the people from worshipping Allah (swt), obeying Him, fearing Him and from the established restrictions of conduct. It has also caused them to wander wherever they wish, and has made them slaves of themselves without being responsible to anyone.
Nationalism has come to give them big mouthfuls of the wine of egoism, pride, arrogation and disrespect for others.
Finally, democracy has come to make this man - after granting him freedom and making a prisoner of the desires of the self, and obsessed by the pleasure of egoism - sit on the throne of Godhead. Thus it has bestowed on him the full authority of legislating and making laws, and has made the ruling system, with all its capacities, at his services in order to fulfill everything that he requests.
Nationalism, secularism and democracy contradicts the religion of Aqeedah that Muslims embrace. So if you surrender to it, this would as if you have left the book of Allah (swt) behind your backs; and if you take part in establishing or keeping it, you have indeed betrayed your Messenger whom Allah (swt) sent to you. Wherever this system is present, Islam does not exist, and wherever Islam is present there is no place for this system."
Secularism has liberated the people from worshipping Allah (swt), obeying Him, fearing Him and from the established restrictions of conduct. It has also caused them to wander wherever they wish, and has made them slaves of themselves without being responsible to anyone.
Nationalism has come to give them big mouthfuls of the wine of egoism, pride, arrogation and disrespect for others.
Finally, democracy has come to make this man - after granting him freedom and making a prisoner of the desires of the self, and obsessed by the pleasure of egoism - sit on the throne of Godhead. Thus it has bestowed on him the full authority of legislating and making laws, and has made the ruling system, with all its capacities, at his services in order to fulfill everything that he requests.
Nationalism, secularism and democracy contradicts the religion of Aqeedah that Muslims embrace. So if you surrender to it, this would as if you have left the book of Allah (swt) behind your backs; and if you take part in establishing or keeping it, you have indeed betrayed your Messenger whom Allah (swt) sent to you. Wherever this system is present, Islam does not exist, and wherever Islam is present there is no place for this system."
wa-salam
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