I went to a church today not of mine

Erik

Junior Member
Hi all, I went to a chruch today that I dont belong to but my daugther mother does, they had a conferance this sunday.
The bishop said hello to my daughter mother and then introduced himself to me.
We then talked some and I said I was interested in scriptures, in this church also and I said I was starting to read the Holy Quran.

the bishop said, Erik, I am gladyou read our scriptures and also the Holy Quran, it is good to k´now because it will help for the future with your muslim firends for you to understand more.

He then said that I now feel I have to ask you, I first didnt belive it but I googled some and find this everywhere.
question one, the prophet, may peice be upon him get married to a girl named Aisha that was 9 years old? *Link Removed*

Question 2 that bishop told me, Mohammed was a great writer, he wrote many books. did he? what other books did he write? He spend 21 years to write the Holy Quran? is this true?

Please I need to know a valid answer to this so no answer of I think kind of please.

I hope you are, is or about to have a wonderful day. /Erik
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
For your second question Erik, our Prophet (SAW) didn't exactly write a lot of books. And for the Quran, he was sent alot of revelations for upto 23 yrs.

And yes our Prophet did marry Aishah when she was 9. But know this though, at that time in histry, people's age span was differant. A man could live to over a hundred and twenty yrs and stuff. A man could've passed puberty when he was young (like 12, adn so can a girl).

But our prophet didn't have the adult relations with her though. You must pass your adolescent age, and that's what he did, but our Prophet (SAW) died when Aisha was 18.

:wasalam:
 

Erik

Junior Member
For your second question Erik, our Prophet (SAW) didn't exactly write a lot of books. And for the Quran, he was sent alot of revelations for upto 23 yrs.

And yes our Prophet did marry Aishah when she was 9. But know this though, at that time in histry, people's age span was differant. A man could live to over a hundred and twenty yrs and stuff. A man could've passed puberty when he was young (like 12, adn so can a girl).

But our prophet didn't have the adult relations with her though. You must pass your adolescent age, and that's what he did, but our Prophet (SAW) died when Aisha was 18.

:wasalam:

Thanks Abdul, Its very hard for me to take in thought butI try and understand, I understood this was another time, things with other wifes and such very young wifes even girls, was married then often not what we think today but perhaps more a marriage to take care of a woman? I mean within plural marriages, was this at times to support women who perhaps lost another husband or just from just beeing a good man to help a woman who didnt have nothing , pretty much to feed her and give her shelter?
This question to the so called west world is a major key, I dont know how many heard about it but I dare to say straight away, if that is true, noone would read the Quran and just simply because of that. even regarding to the context, even if its a wonderfull message.
Do many muslims know this? so called west world people sometimes say, what happens when the Islamic world gets freedom of spech and cable TV.



Hope you are, is or about to have a wonderful day. /Erik
 

Erik

Junior Member
I may talk to open now, I dont question a time of when a boy or a girl hits puberty, I can only for sure speak for myself, I had crawings for women and feelings just like most boys have even at younger age then 9.
Now even something more tabu, no different for girls, offcourse we all know its the same.
The side that like to bring this up aint questioning the young girl or young woman because she is a woman when she gets her period,
what is questioned is the man not Aisha.

Hope you is, are or about to have a wonderful day. /Erik
 

amyaishazouaoui

Junior Member
Hey erik, hope you are having a wonderful day.

I think you could do some research for me. Have a look and see if you can find any information on the age arab women got married 1400 or so years ago. I think you may find that the age Aisha (ra) was at was quite normal when she did eventually move out of her father's (Abu Bakr ra) to the prophet's (saw) house.

As for Muhammed (saw) writing his own book..... well you see he is well known as being unlettered. He was illiterate. He could not read or write and yet came to his friends and companions with this beautiful quran revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (gabriel)

Hope you are still having a nice day.

AAZ
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
He then said that I now feel I have to ask you, I first didnt belive it but I googled some and find this everywhere.
question one, the prophet, may peice be upon him get married to a girl named Aisha that was 9 years old? *Link Removed*

Hello. I'm sorry I had to remove your link, but it was to an anti-islam website, and so obviously all their answers would be biased and warped to any truths. Google is a good search engine for reasearch, but really not for religion. This is just a pointer, I mean... I'm not going to prevent you from searching on there, but I'd ask you to be careful. It's not always going to be truth they feed you, more often then not it's lies.

Here's an Article, it's a bit long, but it may help you understand better insha'allah: The Young Marriage of 'Aa'ishah, The Mother of the Believers.

Question 2 that bishop told me, Mohammed was a great writer, he wrote many books. did he? what other books did he write? He spend 21 years to write the Holy Quran? is this true?

No it is not true. Muhammad :saw: was illiterate. He could neither read nor write. the websites you go to may claim otherwise, but it is not true. All given evidence was that he did not write of himself. At that time, the Arabian Peninsula was very ignorant. People took advantage of that sometimes, as said in the Qur'aan,

"Among the People of the Scripture is he who, if entrusted with a Cantar (a great amount of wealth, etc.), will readily pay it back; and among them there is he who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless you constantly stand demanding, because they say: "There is no blame on us to betray and take the properties of the illiterates (Arabs)." But they tell a lie against Allah while they know it." (3:75)

But the Prophet :saw: encouraged learning, and later employed scribes who penned his various letters to governers and other leaders. The Qur'aan itself was not compiled into a book form during the time of the Prophet :saw:. At that time, the Qur'aan was memorized, and by those who could write, written on peices of bones, leaves, hides ... whatever. But until the time of Abu Bakr as-Sideeq (RA) these were not made into a book either. So therefore, truthfully one cannot even claim the fact that he wrote it.

However, to give another answer from Islamonline:

Was Muhammad Illiterate?

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother, we appreciate your forwarding this question to us. We hope our efforts, exerted purely for Allah’s sake, come up to your expectations.

First of all, we’d like to state that Almighty Allah chose Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) even though he had grown up as an orphan and was totally illiterate. All good qualities and virtues reached ultimate perfection and were firmly established in him, which no one else can attain except the prophets whom Allah has protected and guided. This combination of perfect qualities is one of the greatest proofs of the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings be upon him). He acquired his knowledge direct from Allah. He was not taught by any human being, but he was the "City of Knowledge".

With regard to the question of the illiteracy of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, states:

Almighty Allah says: (And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.) (Al-`Ankabut 29: 48) He also says: (Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them …) (Al-A`raf 7: 157)

The first verse indicates that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was an illiterate, knowing neither how to read or write, before the Glorious Qur’an started to be revealed to him. The second verse indicates that the People of the Book, i.e., the Christians and Jews, knew of the Prophet’s illiteracy in their Divine Books and this is a well-known matter. The wisdom in his illiteracy as shown in the verses is to avoid the disbelievers’ accusing him of having copied or transformed the Qur’an from another human being or excerpted it from the previous books.

However, regarding the period after the revelation of the Qur’an to the Prophet, Muslim scholars held different viewpoints on the issue of the Prophet’s illiteracy. Some scholars are of the opinion that he was no more an illiterate. They based their ruling on the following three evidences:

1. It is reported in Sahih al-Bukhari that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) changed in the document of al-Hudaibiyah Truce the phrase “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah” into “Muhammad ibn `Abdullah”.

2. He read a paper to `Uyaynah ibn Hisn and conveyed its meaning.

3. He stated that one of the signs of the Anti-Christ (al-Maseeh ad-Dajjal) is that it is written between his eyes the word “a disbeliever”.

The majority of Muslim scholars are of the opinion that he remained illiterate so that no one would be able to refute his mission or that the Qur’an was revealed to him on separate occasions until the end of his lifetime.

They refuted the first evidence saying that the Prophet’s mere writing some words does not erase his illiteracy because of the fact that many illiterates nowadays can write their names nevertheless they are still illiterates.

They refuted the second evidence saying that it is unauthentic.

As for the third evidence, they said that the Prophet’s knowing of some letters does not erase his description as being an illiterate.

**MY ADD> actually it was stated that on the forhead of Dajjal would be the letters Ka Fa Ra which would spell altogether "Kaffir" but that this would be read by a person regardless of whether he was illiterate or not, proving to be a miracle of the last times as well.

Accordingly, the Prophet’s illiteracy is a description that has its cogent wisdom.

Finally, we would like to state that there are many textual proofs indicating that even if the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was an illiterate, the Muslim Ummah are recommended to learn how to read and write and to teach it to others, as learning by starting with reading is one of the strongest keys to gaining knowledge. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) ransomed the captives of the great Battle of Badr by having them teach some children of the Ansar (Helpers) reading and writing.

Dr. Rif`at Fawzi, professor of Shari`ah at Cairo University, adds:

Yes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was an illiterate. This clearly indicates the Divine nature of the Glorious Qur’an that was revealed on Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) who had grown up as an orphan and was illiterate, knowing neither how to read nor write. This Divine Book meets with the previous Divine Books in creeds and stories of Prophets. Almighty Allah challenged all people to try to create a chapter like it, but they could not, and will never be able to do so until the Day of Judgment.

From Islam-qa.com

Allaah chose him even though he had grown up as an orphan and was illiterate, knowing neither how to read or write. All good qualities and virtues were perfected in him, to the point of ultimate perfection. All these good qualities were combined and firmly established in him, something which no one else can attain except the Prophets whom Allaah protected and guided. This combination of perfect qualities is one of the greatest proofs of the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

The Qur’aan refers to the signs and proofs surrounding the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which testify to his truthfulness. For example, he was free of sin and trivial spitefulness; he grew up illiterate in the Arabian Peninsula, and did not receive any religious knowledge from beyond its borders, nor did he spend time acquiring any religious knowledge. When he reached the age of forty, he brought divine knowledge that none of the earlier or later generations could produce. He also received special protection and care from Allaah, which kept him safe at times of crisis; if it were not for this protection he would most certainly have been doomed to destruction. None of this could have happened except to one who was truly sent from Allaah.

In an question response to: Evidence for the truth of the Prophethood of Muhammad

_________________________

the correct opinion is that he :saw: did not know how to read or write.

I hope you are, is or about to have a wonderful day. /Erik

You to. Take care and May you be guided upon the truth.
 

happy 2 b muslim

Junior Member
Are you a convert if so i believe he is trying to question islam to but doubt in your mind it ok...This isnt a problem in islam
Firstly.......... people at that time had been married to younger girls but now that time have changed people find thing wrong which people didnt in the past. Her father the best friend of muhammed peace be upon abu bakr was pleased so the people at that time agreed to it didnt find nothing wrong with it so what were the people at that time. PLUs how could he, people say he is a pedofile which some people say (asfuallah) why did he marry khadja who was 20 years older that him at that time ????.......
visit this yusuf estes explains it better than me inshallah
go on youtube it named women in islam good leuture it near the end which he explain this


secondly.......
muhammed peace be upon him didnt write no books, the quran is was not in a writen form at the time of the prophet. The third khalifa and other came to the conclusion to but it into a writen form because at that time it was memorised. Word by word and the order the prophet but in it by reading it by mouth. Also the quran came in stages by jabreel learning him in the moutain also it was sent to him at anytime. HE didnt write it he couldnt write he was unlettered,also quran tells us Verse 23. we, even we, have revealed to you the quran, a revelation. surah al insan.

hope that helped if i have made a mistake please forgive me if anything right was said its from allah jazarallah khair may allah accept it amen..
 

Erik

Junior Member
Hey erik, hope you are having a wonderful day.

I think you could do some research for me. Have a look and see if you can find any information on the age arab women got married 1400 or so years ago. I think you may find that the age Aisha (ra) was at was quite normal when she did eventually move out of her father's (Abu Bakr ra) to the prophet's (saw) house.

As for Muhammed (saw) writing his own book..... well you see he is well known as being unlettered. He was illiterate. He could not read or write and yet came to his friends and companions with this beautiful quran revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (gabriel)

Hope you are still having a nice day.

AAZ

Thanks for the reply aAZ, I did not know that Mohammed, peace be opon him could not write or read and after 23 years spent beeing able to show the word of God. 1400 years ago one thing but today, is it ok for a man according to the word of God to look at a girl as possible wife who is the age of 12?
If a man looks at my daughter when she is 14 and that man is older then 20, I would take it, he thinks my daughter is 17.
If a man try or touch my daughter when she is 14, I would rather die then allow it. /eRIK
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
Thanks for the reply aAZ, I did not know that Mohammed, peace be opon him could not write or read and after 23 years spent beeing able to show the word of God. 1400 years ago one thing but today, is it ok for a man according to the word of God to look at a girl as possible wife who is the age of 12?
If a man looks at my daughter when she is 14 and that man is older then 20, I would take it, he thinks my daughter is 17.
If a man try or touch my daughter when she is 14, I would rather die then allow it. /eRIK

Your objections to their relationship are entirely understandable and this is something that I also had/have a difficult time dealing with and understanding, but it's important to remember a few things:

1) What defines adulthood? Science and biology does have a way of defining what makes us "adults", though, and for females that's when they start menstruation and when they're able to reproduce. Females living in hotter climates, closer to the equator, will start menstruation earlier than those living in colder climates. So Aisha was, by biological definition and by cultural definition at the time, a woman.

2) The age is debatable, but most believe it to be 6 when she was married and 9 when the marriage was consummated. If Muhammad (pbuh) was really an immoral child molester, he probably wouldn't have waited 3 years.

3) There were many pagans and Arabs of other religions around Muhammad (pbuh) at the time who hated him, yet none of them spoke up with any objections when he married Aisha. If it was so wrong in their culture, they probably would have jumped at the chance. And even if he didn't have any enemies, if it was wrong, someone would have probably spoken out. But no one did.

You can't hold up other cultures to our cultural standards, and you can't hold up events and traditions from that long ago to modern standards. In our culture, and in this century, I don't think anyone here would be comfortable marrying off their 6 or 9 year old daughter. You don't have to follow this practice or even be comfortable with it, but it's important to realize that Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't a bad man because of this. He was following cultural practices at the time which made it perfectly acceptable to have a 9 year old wife (as long as she had started menstruating).
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam Erik,


Our beloved prophet (swas) married under the advisment of Allah. That is a fact. Given that think of the patience of a man who has been sent as the Messanger of Allah. This blessed man possess the best of character and his young wife becomes a test for him too. He shows love for all his wives. He is patient and kind to his young wife. He assists her to grow spritually. After his death she gave us so much wisdom. She is the mother of the believers.

In our world today we have young girls having sex at age 12. This is a fact. We have girls who have abortions at the age of 12 and 13. We have girls become unwed mothers at 12, 13, 14 etc. If this was rare I would not write about it. It is a common fact. Young girls are what men want..please look at the sex trade..look at the number of prostitutes..this is from the western world...

The non believers have a hang up. They are stuck. Be stuck. You allow premartial sex. But you point fingers at societies that understood human biology and development and delt with it accordingly. The free clinics deal with the nasty stuff of premarital sex. They deal with STD's and pregnancies. Handing out birth control is not a measure for dealing with human urges.

The nonbelievers think you can have a box with a magic number :18 AND a person can make a rational decision. Life is not lived in a box.
 

hajhajti

New Member
:salam2:

Dear Erik,
You certainly have a point when you argue that you won't allow anybody older than 20 look at your 12 year-old daughter in a way a man looks at a woman. But we have not always been like that. The Neanderthals' life span was 20 years old. In Classical Rome the lifespan was 28 years. By that age they would have gotten married and had produced many children. Were they immoral to marry at a young age? Who are we to judge them? They belonged to a different era and had different problems to face. We are evolving not only technologically and intellectually but socially and morally as well. This doesn't mean the morality back then was lower; it just means we are changing. Slavery was a part of the new world until the abolition. Now we look at our forefathers and blame them for keeping slaves but it was a part of the economic system and we can't apply our morality to them. Our future generations will look back at us and blame us for mistreating illegal immigrants, polluting the environment and many other things.

Prophet married Aisha because of a direct order from god that was revealed to him in his dreams 3 times. The wisdom behind such a marriage was to bring into the house of prophet a young and intelligent woman who was very observant and pious at the same time. She lived long enough after prophet died to teach about Islam and prophet's tradition. Most of the islamic tradition has been handed down by Aisha.
 
Asalaamalikum,

Please check this thread Erik, GP did a nice job.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5601&highlight=xbox


Asslamo Allaikum Usman,

Judging by the way you have spelled your name “Usman” & I will guess that you are from a Non-Arab background (possibly Asian)…

1) Did you know that Muhammad Bin Qasim was seventeen years old when he conquered India?

2) Did you know that Tariq bin Ziyaad was seventeen years old when he conquered Spain and entered into Europe (British Island of Gibraltar is actually Jabal-ut-Tariq meaning mountain of Tariq where his army fought from)

Do you know any 17 year old “Teens” today who can command an army and become a general?

The point is my brother that people matured earlier back then so the 17 year olds of today have no resemblance to 17 years old of yesterday…Same obviously goes for women.

I believe that you are trying to compare youngsters of yesterday to our PS2 & XBOX youngsters.

Jazakullah Khairun
 

Erik

Junior Member
thank you all for the good replies, two was replied while I wrote a reply to, ones again, Im not asking about the age of a woman or girls, Im asking about the men,1400 years , today or tomorrow.
How does Islam see this? how does a woman see this? how would a grown
woman see this today if she even could imagine this would have happened to her when she was that young?
How would all brothers feel or you if you gave up your daughter at that age to a man?
My questions are simple, short and I do thank very much to long answers but yes or no, or a sentance or two would be able to reply to what I ask I think.

Hope you are, is or about to have a wonderful day. /Erik
 

Erik

Junior Member
:salam2:

Dear Erik,
You certainly have a point when you argue that you won't allow anybody older than 20 look at your 12 year-old daughter in a way a man looks at a woman. But we have not always been like that. The Neanderthals' life span was 20 years old. In Classical Rome the lifespan was 28 years. By that age they would have gotten married and had produced many children. Were they immoral to marry at a young age? Who are we to judge them? They belonged to a different era and had different problems to face. We are evolving not only technologically and intellectually but socially and morally as well. This doesn't mean the morality back then was lower; it just means we are changing. Slavery was a part of the new world until the abolition. Now we look at our forefathers and blame them for keeping slaves but it was a part of the economic system and we can't apply our morality to them. Our future generations will look back at us and blame us for mistreating illegal immigrants, polluting the environment and many other things.

Prophet married Aisha because of a direct order from god that was revealed to him in his dreams 3 times. The wisdom behind such a marriage was to bring into the house of prophet a young and intelligent woman who was very observant and pious at the same time. She lived long enough after prophet died to teach about Islam and prophet's tradition. Most of the islamic tradition has been handed down by Aisha.

thank you sir, I to me think this was among the best replies, I agree, to reach the age 40 was not common in that time anywhere and Mohammed, peace be opon him was 53.
We do know for sure the average age at the time, not included killed in battle but a young woman or girl as young as 6-9 years old, how would that girl feel? for sure, people didnt develope faster then, slower actually science say due to nutrition etc and we live alot longer.

I am greatful for all the replies andI will continue to read the Holy Quran but I see that some instead of answering a question a brother has who comes in love gets some replies not answering the question, seeming, not wanting to talk about it or explane it away, gladly, many brothers but yet no sister have answered openly as I take it.

/Erik
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam Erik,

First I want to thank you for being gentle in tone. Your references to the Holy Prophet (swas) are very noble.
I am sorry but I thought I replied from a womans perspective. I am a woman.

As an older woman who has had many years to understand and accept the message and mercy of Islam I can not dispute what happened. Would I balk at the idea of marriage at the age of 9. No, not any more. We have women who are 60 that are giving birth.
Once again I stress, people are stuck on sex. Marriage always has been more than sex. Marriage always will be more than sex. It is the fundamental building block of society. Yes, sex is a part of marriage. Yes, it is a fun part of marriage but, it is not half of marriage.
As a woman I can say marriage teaches us to be humble. Marriage teaches women how to sacrifice. Even today, the married woman will take her earnings home for the benfit of the family. Single women do not have to think about "us".
We are not any more advanced than our predecessors. I have to laugh when people think science and technology give us brains. That is the topic of another discussion. Our Holy Prophet (swas) is the Chief of the Sons of Adam, and as Muslims we believe he will be our intecessor on the Day of Judgement.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

My computer was acting up ...


To finish my thought, We as Muslims can not judge the Prophet (swas). Every action, every action of the Prophet (swas) was blessed. We can only by the Mercy of Allah follow in his footsteps.

If I had a daughter would I marry her at a young age...if in speaking to my imam and Muslim community they judged it to be the Muslim action to take..who am I to question it. If I call myself a Muslim.
 

Erik

Junior Member
Im truly sorry I missed that Mirajmom, I wouldent have known now either if you hadent mentioned it because you dont end your saying with a name.

I want to say that with religion or not, I in my heart I first hold my family , secondly first all children of the world, then all women of the world, then all the men in the world.

Saying your time for reply means more to me then when a man reply.

I asked many questions, I could spend a good year atleast to read and get down to and study it just sofar.
I think I will leave that for now and now only read the Holy Quran first.

Thanks all, Regards /Erik
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam Erik,

As you delve into your study please take the time out to ask questions. For two reasons. One, your knowldege will become clear. Two, by asking us questions you make us increase our faith. You ask us to reveal our true understanding of our faith. I apologize that I am long winded. It comes with the terroritory of being a woman.
It has taken me many many years of deep soul searching to find the truth. Many many paths that were untrue. When Allah ignites your soul that is a blessing and I believe your soul has been ignited.
Faith, deep conviction, takes time to be absorbed into the psyche. And equally it takes much time to shine outwards.
A suggestion and only a slight suggestion...when you want to read the Quran..go into a masjid. It is quite a mystical experience. If you have time read Carl Jung and Rumi.
 

SalmanFarsi

New Member
They will neve cease to ask these.

Brother,

The kuffar tend to raise up these questions very commonly and they will cease to ask them because the questions are not meant to seek answers but to question our great prophet's character. and sure enaugh, to a lame person like you and me, they sound pretty valid.
unfortunately, as soon as you hear these, shaitan takes over in your head and takes you straigh to hell. so be carefull, shaitan is always with you.

remember, our prophet married when he was 25 a woman that was 40.
he lived with her happy for 15 years and had children with her untill she passed away. He used to take about her so much later on that his new wife would get jelouse!

also did you know that Ayesha whom you ask about being very young when given to marriage to our prophet was actually engaged to someone else and that didn't go through because it was part of Allah's plan to have her married to him so that she maybe an excellent student of our deen to live longer and pass on the knowledge.

Whats intresting is that I know of people who wanted to become muslim but for this question and alhamdulilah once they did become muslim, they gave me the best responses to this question:)



sallam,

Alfarsi
 
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