Contradictions in the Qur'an and Weird Stuff

[xlpx]

Hey Everybody! I'm not Muslim, but I am considering converting. I've recently successfully finished reading the entire Qur'an and I've come across some "questionable verses". These are verses that seemed contradictory or just plain uncharacteristic of God. I'll only bring up 4 for now. I will advise you to read the preceding and succeeding verses of all the verses I bring into question.

1) Chapter 3 Verse 145 states,

"And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah the term is fixed; and whoever desires the reward of this world, I shall give him of it, and whoever desires the reward of the hereafter I shall give him of it, and I will reward the grateful."

2) Chapter 6 Verse 60 states,

"And He it is Who takes your souls at night (in sleep), and He knows what you acquire in the day, then He raises you up therein that an appointed term may be fulfilled; then to Him is your return, then He will inform you of what you were doing."

These first 2 are somewhat similar, so I'll speak of them together. My problem with these 2 verses is that they state that God is in control of who dies and who lives and who wakes up in the morning and who doesn't. Well if that's so, then why would God allow innocent people to die? Why would God allow infants to die? Why would God allow unborn babies to die through late-term abortions just because the mother didn't want a kid? Now I'll be the first to argue that, in certain circumstances, death isn't a bad thing for the person dying. But it's the effects of that death on loved ones that truly brings grief and suffering. I can't see God giving those kinds of effects to his believers.

And this is also somewhat contradictory of free will. If I decide I want to die today, it doesn't matter, because God's in control of death. I could stab myself in the heart as many times as I want, Im not gonna die until God allows me to. That doesn't sound right to me.

3) Chapter 4 Verse 79 states,

"Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and Allah is sufficient as a witness."

My problem with this one is that it sounds very arrogant and convenient to say this. All good comes from me, and all bad comes from you! Here's an example. Let's say that through many years of study and trials, I discovered the cure for AIDS. Yay!!! I've benefitted humanity!! But!!! I get no credit for discovering this cure because "Whatever benefit comes to you, it is from Allah". Ok, so this cure is from God, not me. But 25 years later everybody who received the cure dies for some reason. We weren't able to test the long term effects. Oh no! Severe misfortune! NOW I can get credit for the "cure" because it brought misfortune. That doesn't sound right to me.

4) Chapter 6 Verse 25 states,

"And among them are they who listen to you, and We set (Literally: make) upon their hearts lids, (so) they do not comprehend it, and in their ears obstruction; and in case they see every sign, they do not believe in it, until (the time) when they come to you, they dispute with you. The ones who have disbelieved say, "Decidedly this is nothing except the myths of the earliest (peoples)."

Now after reading this one let's assume you are reading the Qur'an to someone, but they can't fully comprehend it. So because they don't comprehend it, they decide they're going to continue living life the way they have been. So they continue to drink, snort coke, and sleep with whomever they please. But all their misdeeds are not their fault, because according to this verse God has "set upon their hearts lids so they do not comprehend...and in their ears obstruction". I would think that God would want EVERYONE to comprehend his message. If they comprehend it, they can follow it. This verse doesn't sound right to me.

Overall these interventions of God seem contradictory to free will and seem destructive. I'm hoping that there's just something I'm not understanding in these verses. Tell me whatcha think!!!

 

[JenGiove]

xlpx,

Yes, you are misunderstanding the Verses. I too am a non-muslim and tho I have yet to finish reading the Qur'an, I do know that sometimes, it can seem contrary to itself, BUT!, there is a rhyme and reason to it all. I'll let the other's give you the "proofs" and at first, it may be a bit off-putting but bare with it. Between language and cultural views and the current state of world affairs.....have patience. It takes alot of time to understand and you will not receive the easy answer you think you can get. If you really want to understand, it takes study.

 

[Islam!!yay]

Well a lot of innocent people died on 9/11 and the people who died then, God has already set an appointed time that they will die on that day. As I recall there are instances where some folks were suppose to go to the WTC but for some reason never made it there and therefore didnt die on that day and those are the ones that God Saved.

And If we are believers it doesnt mean that God will give us all happiness throughout our lives. This world was created specifically to Test us. And God might take a life to Test us. Would we still believe in God and ask Him for Help even after He takes our most beloved son or daughter ?

I remember watching an Egyptian Black and white movie and its about a terrible father. He's very tough and very hard to deal with. To make long story short he was one of the worst people to live. Moving on, and If my memory doesnt fool me, there was a scene where he ( the father ) and his youngest son were on a tram and they were planning to rob someone of his wallet or something anyways during the process something happened and his youngest son fell off the tram and died. Of course as any parent would react, the father was shocked and utterly broken and it seems happiness was taken away from him, I mean he lost his son and thats a lost immeasurable. However, during his depressed walk home from the hospital he hears the Islamic call to prayer from a nearby mosque and he go prays. After his son's death he becomes a practicing muslim and transforms himself to "good person" he would even stay in a mosque the whole day praying. In the movie you can see that he radically changed. He used to be person who yells a lot at people especially his daughter but after his son's death you notice he's more quieter and prays a lot. And the movie closes when he starts a prayer.
So you see what happens after the death of his son ? As a muslim he turned towards God and I am sure that many muslims or even christians and Jews after they have lost a loved one they turn to God constantly and change for the better. So it might be that God wants us to change by taking a life away and if we remain steadfast even after our huge lost, God will rewards us heavily in the hereafter and reunite us with loved ones.

Remember theres a story where Prophet Mohamed's (PBUH) son,Ibrahim, died at a very young age, 16 months of age specifically and the Prophet was grieving for his son. So you see even The Prophet would loose a loved one.

And your question about abortion, before I move on abortion isnt allowed in Islam. It is but only under strict circumstances. Anways abortion and killing youself is an expression of free will. If I take a gun and shoot someone in the head he will die because thats a given. And I'll go to hell for shooting that person. Now if God so willed He wouldnt let the person die even after I shoot him in the head. If He so willed God would allow the person to stay alive even after I shoot him. But this would contradict the medical field and its just not the norm for person to still be alive with a hold in his head. Same I can say with suicide you can stab yourself as many times as you want but If God wants you to stay alive with multiple stabs you will stay alive but God didnt create the world to work that way.

I heard of story where a person had metal beam went through his head and somehow he survived.

Allah knows best and I hope He forgives me for any mistakes or inaccuracies in this message.

 

[xlpx]

@ayman1

As far as your response to my example about the "cure" , you were successful in answering how God would assume credit for creation for the cure, but not as to why he doesn't assume credit for that cure bringing misfortune to people. At what point in time does God go from saying "The cure is from me, cos it brought benefits!" to "The cure is from you, cos it brought misfortune"?

And yeah, God may have provided me with the mind and resources to create that cure, but with my "free will", I decided to use my mind and those resources. So, I would obviously have some credit in it's creation. It wouldn't be entirely from God.

As far as the quote about reading the Qur'an to someone, you've gotten the order mixed up. It's not that they 1st "won't" understand 2nd so God puts a lid on their hearts, it's the other way around. The verse i quoted says God has put a lid on their hearts, so they don't understand it. With that stated, prejudice or not, they don't comprehend, because God has put a lid on their heart. And even if someone was prejudice towards Islam, you should still want them to comprehend the Qur'an. Because with comprehension comes the possibility of accepting God. I can't see why God would want to hide his own message from people by putting a lid on their hearts.

 

[Islam!!yay]

I dont understand what you meant by you finding a cure for AIDS and all of that.

As far as I can understand about the verse If anything good happens to you that you did something good and Allah rewards for that and that if something bad happens to you, then you brought that on yourself by doing something bad.

Thats my perspective

 

[shichemlydia]

trial to help,

salam alikoum,
actually allah swt is not asked about what he does and we are asked. this is what he states in the quran.
allah swt is the all knowing, the all hearing, he is the most powerful and he is unique, so do not wonder about what he can do....he knows the unseen, and he is in control of everything....and he even knows the leaves when it fells down from the tree....
i sujest try to read more about the belief system of muslims...that is the most important thing to start with..
may allah swt help you along, ameen
wa salam alikoum

 

[mezeren]

3) Chapter 4 Verse 79 states,

"Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and Allah is sufficient as a witness."

My problem with this one is that it sounds very arrogant and convenient to say this. All good comes from me, and all bad comes from you! Here's an example. Let's say that through many years of study and trials, I discovered the cure for AIDS. Yay!!! I've benefitted humanity!! But!!! I get no credit for discovering this cure because "Whatever benefit comes to you, it is from Allah". Ok, so this cure is from God, not me. But 25 years later everybody who received the cure dies for some reason. We weren't able to test the long term effects. Oh no! Severe misfortune! NOW I can get credit for the "cure" because it brought misfortune. That doesn't sound right to me.


!

@ayman1

As far as your response to my example about the "cure" , you were successful in answering how God would assume credit for creation for the cure, but not as to why he doesn't assume credit for that cure bringing misfortune to people. At what point in time does God go from saying "The cure is from me, cos it brought benefits!" to "The cure is from you, cos it brought misfortune"?

And yeah, God may have provided me with the mind and resources to create that cure, but with my "free will", I decided to use my mind and those resources. So, I would obviously have some credit in it's creation. It wouldn't be entirely from God.

.


Hi,

i think you confused about free will and the outcome of it.Allah has given us all the free will and he will question us about it.While choosing to work in order to get a cure for an illness with the intention of helping people will certainly has its reward, if you do it with the intention of gaining fame and fortune, don't expect any reward.

On the other hand,when you try to find a cure for a disease with the best intention possible,you have no guarantee that you will succeed. When you succeed it is from Allah and YOU will be rewarded, when not succeed you will be rewarded for your good intentions.But if you become arrogant and say i did this,i made it happen then get ready for punishment for your transgression.

 

[mezeren]

These first 2 are somewhat similar, so I'll speak of them together. My problem with these 2 verses is that they state that God is in control of who dies and who lives and who wakes up in the morning and who doesn't. Well if that's so, then why would God allow innocent people to die? Why would God allow infants to die? Why would God allow unborn babies to die through late-term abortions just because the mother didn't want a kid? Now I'll be the first to argue that, in certain circumstances, death isn't a bad thing for the person dying. But it's the effects of that death on loved ones that truly brings grief and suffering. I can't see God giving those kinds of effects to his believers.

And this is also somewhat contradictory of free will. If I decide I want to die today, it doesn't matter, because God's in control of death. I could stab myself in the heart as many times as I want, Im not gonna die until God allows me to. That doesn't sound right to me.

!

Hi,

You are contradicting yourself from the beginning.You say "God is in control of who dies and who lives and who wakes up in the morning and who doesn't." and you ask "Well if that's so, then why would God allow innocent people to die? Why would God allow infants to die?. it is because of what says in the first sentence. God does not say he is not in control of the death of innocent,infants or so. if you say you have a problem with innocent and infants dying,well,that is another story.

First of all, we are in no position to questin Allah's actions,it is the other way around.And you gain nothing by questioning Allah and it is useless.Happiness comes from submitting His wills.

As far as i can see, your problem is with the death,it is clear you are scared of it which is allright up to a degree.We all are afraid of it but at the same time we do know that the death is not the end, rather it is the beggining of the eternal life.it is human to grieve and cry when we lose someone but the idea of meeting them in paradise is a huge relief and that prevents us from blaming God.

About the free will,nothing is contradictory here as well.Allah gave us the free will which we are responsible for, but Allah is the one who creates everything including our actions.Allah orders us not to kill ourselves.Despite this some people choose to do that and commit suicide.But, not all are succeed in doing that.When they are succesfull, it is Allah's will,when they are not, again it is Allah's will.

 

[mezeren]

4) Chapter 6 Verse 25 states,

"And among them are they who listen to you, and We set (Literally: make) upon their hearts lids, (so) they do not comprehend it, and in their ears obstruction; and in case they see every sign, they do not believe in it, until (the time) when they come to you, they dispute with you. The ones who have disbelieved say, "Decidedly this is nothing except the myths of the earliest (peoples)."

Now after reading this one let's assume you are reading the Qur'an to someone, but they can't fully comprehend it. So because they don't comprehend it, they decide they're going to continue living life the way they have been. So they continue to drink, snort coke, and sleep with whomever they please. But all their misdeeds are not their fault, because according to this verse God has "set upon their hearts lids so they do not comprehend...and in their ears obstruction". I would think that God would want EVERYONE to comprehend his message. If they comprehend it, they can follow it. This verse doesn't sound right to me.

Overall these interventions of God seem contradictory to free will and seem destructive. I'm hoping that there's just something I'm not understanding in these verses. Tell me whatcha think!!!

Hi again,

First some people ignore Allah' massage, turn away from it, do not listen what He says with their free will and then Allah set (Literally: make) upon their hearts lids.So,it is not the way around.And there are several verses explaining this.i hope some one could bring them here.

To understand Quran,don't just pick up a verse and come to a conclucion.in the quran,one verse is explained in another one,so ask further questions when you are not satisfied.

 

[besmiralalbani]

salam alaykum

As far as the quote about reading the Qur'an to someone, you've gotten the order mixed up. It's not that they 1st "won't" understand 2nd so God puts a lid on their hearts, it's the other way around. The verse i quoted says God has put a lid on their hearts, so they don't understand it. With that stated, prejudice or not, they don't comprehend, because God has put a lid on their heart. And even if someone was prejudice towards Islam, you should still want them to comprehend the Qur'an. Because with comprehension comes the possibility of accepting God. I can't see why God would want to hide his own message from people by putting a lid on their hearts.

Allah says in the Qur'an:

O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he (SAW) calls you to that which will give you life, and know that Allah comes in between a person and his heart (i.e. He prevents an evil person to decide anything). And verily to Him you shall (all) be gathered. (Al Anfaal 8: 24)

So a bad thing occur when you are called to the truth but you don't accept it. After Allah order the people,the believers to answer to His call, we have to believe to be Muslims otherwise: know that Allah comes in between a person and his heart (i.e. He prevents an evil person to decide anything)..
Allah knows everything, so if into our breast we don't love Islam, we don't love justice, we don't love Allah, then He can change our hearts and prevent us from being Muslims.
Allah sent Musa, alayhi sallam, to the Pharao, and sais to Musa, alayhi sallam, Speak to him softly, maybe he will accept.
So even to the worse person- Pharaon, Allah said to His Messenger speak to Pharaon softly...
And Allah warns us again:
And We shall turn their hearts and their eyes away (from guidance), as they refused to believe therein for the first time, and We shall leave them in their trespass to wander blindly. (Al An’aam 6: 110)

So Allah make it possible for the people to take the messagge, and the DUTY OF A MUSLIM IS TO GIVE THE MESSAGGE in the BEST WAY, according to the person he is talking to, according to the circumstances, according to the time, according to the place... So the way of calling people in Islam is not a way that you can learn from one day to another. You have to learn and take knowledge, because Islam teaches us to LEARN before we speak, that's how the first verses came :

Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)]. Has taught man that which he knew not. (Al-Alaq 96: 1-5)

That's why Allah sent the Prophets to call the people to believe in Him, and to stay in the right path. If you learn Islam, then everything in life is going to MAKE SENSE to you.
The example of AIDS: If you don't do this kind of sins, going with a lot of women, people would have not all this diseases. Allah tells us what is good and what is wrong for us... so we have to make tha choice.
And everything is good for us Allah permit it, everything that harm us, Allah prohibits it.

The Qur'an is very easy to comprehend. Most of it is easy, the parts that are a little bit more complicate we ask to Scholars, because Allah gave them Knowledge and we want to learn it. So you can read the Tafseer, that is the explanation of the Qur'an, if you want to gain more knowledge and calrify better yourself.

 

[xlpx]

Hi,

You are contradicting yourself from the beginning.You say "God is in control of who dies and who lives and who wakes up in the morning and who doesn't." and you ask "Well if that's so, then why would God allow innocent people to die? Why would God allow infants to die?. it is because of what says in the first sentence. God does not say he is not in control of the death of innocent,infants or so. if you say you have a problem with innocent and infants dying,well,that is another story.

First of all, we are in no position to questin Allah's actions,it is the other way around.And you gain nothing by questioning Allah and it is useless.Happiness comes from submitting His wills.

As far as i can see, your problem is with the death,it is clear you are scared of it which is allright up to a degree.We all are afraid of it but at the same time we do know that the death is not the end, rather it is the beggining of the eternal life.it is human to grieve and cry when we lose someone but the idea of meeting them in paradise is a huge relief and that prevents us from blaming God.

About the free will,nothing is contradictory here as well.Allah gave us the free will which we are responsible for, but Allah is the one who creates everything including our actions.Allah orders us not to kill ourselves.Despite this some people choose to do that and commit suicide.But, not all are succeed in doing that.When they are succesfull, it is Allah's will,when they are not, again it is Allah's will.

Ok first of all I'm not contradicting myself. If God is control of death, then all the innocent people that die, died because of God. And my question is, Why would God let innocent people die if he has the control to prevent them from dying?? So, no it's not "another story".

And if you honestly believe we're not in a position to question God's actions, then you're just following your religion BLINDLY! The Qur'an directly prohibits you from following anything blindly. And no where does it say that you cannot question God's actions.

The truth is strengthened by questions and lies are weakened by them! If you believe God is true, you would be questioning EVERYTHING!

Your assumption about my fear of death is simply wrong. I've no fear of death. The asking of questions concerning death is a weak basis to assume someone is afraid it.

And yes, God's control of death is in conflict with free will. If we had complete free will, and if we wanted to kill ourselves, we would be able to.

 

[xlpx]

Hi again,

First some people ignore Allah' massage, turn away from it, do not listen what He says with their free will and then Allah set (Literally: make) upon their hearts lids.So,it is not the way around.And there are several verses explaining this.i hope some one could bring them here.

To understand Quran,don't just pick up a verse and come to a conclucion.in the quran,one verse is explained in another one,so ask further questions when you are not satisfied.

That is a weak response. And yes, it is the other way around.

If someone doesn't listen to God's message do you honestly believe the best course of action is to put a lid on their heart, so they won't ever understand God's message? No! You should want EVERYBODY to understand God's message.

It's seems spiteful to put a lid on someone's heart because they wouldn't listen to you. That, to me, sounds like a human characteristic, not a godly one.

 

[besmiralalbani]

salam alaykum

And yes, God's control of death is in conflict with free will. If we had complete free will, and if we wanted to kill ourselves, we would be able to.

Allah'a controll of death is not in conflict with the free will;
We are in conflict with the reason of being here in earth,
we are in conflict by closing our eyes in front of the clear evidences,
we are in conflict every day with ourselves because we don't know what we want,
we are in conflict with ourselves because we are sad and we don't know why,
and we are in conflict with ourselves because we DON'T DO OUR DUTY, THE REASON WHY WE ARE HERE IN EARTH...

So, we have a lot of questions, we are continuously in conflict in our life, this are just sme few examples of conflicts...
The greatest conflict is
1- THE REASON WE ARE HERE IN EARTH...
2- What is going to happen after death...
3- Who created all this universe, this perfect system, and Why?!

All this questions if we read carefully you will find them in ISLAM
If you read all this book, I think inshaAllah you will find a lot of questions for yourself

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58853

Another thing, a lot of people kill themselves nowadays... they are depressed, they feel lonely, they don't find a purpose for their existence... All of this is made by human being, by teaching Islam like if it is WAR AGAINST HUMAN BEING... we have to read firstly, know this religion...

Allah created us, and the death too, so noone can excape from death, we have to behave good in this world, do our duty, worship Allah, the hope He subhana wa ta'ala, will give us Paradise.
So death is a test for us, all this wordly life is a test.
You have two choices:
1- Follow the right path, the path that brings you to Allah
2- Following the footsteps of shaytan (devil)

And remember:
And the Book (one's Record) will be placed (in the right hand for a believer in the Oneness of Allah, and in the left hand for a disbeliever in the Oneness of Allah), and you will see the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists, sinners, etc.), fearful of that which is (recorded) therein. They will say: "Woe to us! What sort of Book is this that leaves neither a small thing nor a big thing, but has recorded it with numbers!" And they will find all that they did, placed before them, and your Lord treats no one with injustice. (Al-Kahf 18: 49)

If someone doesn't listen to God's message do you honestly believe the best course of action is to put a lid on their heart, so they won't ever understand God's message? No! You should want EVERYBODY to understand God's message.

Every Muslim wants that the non believers turn to God, worship Him, know Him, and realise the purpose of this wordly life...
The Qur'an is available for everyne, this forum has a lot of GOOD BOOKS...
So everyone, non believers,and muslim too, MUST always learn in Islam, stay in touch with the QUr'an, with the Sunnah, with the books of scholars, should go to a Mosque and ask face to face to a learned Muslim about Islam.

Asalamu alaykum

 

[JenGiove]

Hey guys......

Please.....lets calm ourselves. Please....

xlpx....please remember the old addage, "never talk about money, politics of religion unless you want a fight"......You came into another person's home. I ask patience and while I underastand your fustration.....understand, Muslims think that Christians follow their Christian leaders blindly too. Frankly, I think they are right.

Faith is ALWAYS a matter of blind trust....

You came here to learn. Remember that Arabic is a "beautiful" language. I put that into quotes for a reason. Arabic is a language FILLED with metaphor. It is a dance in words that spring forth images and the older the words, the more beauty that is conveyed. We, you and I, live in a word where TV and movies and pictures convey beauty. Arabs, and Arabic is THE language of Islam, have been conveying such beauty for a millennium...listen with the heart and the paintbrush of the mind. It may be easier to understand that way.

Brothers, please, have patience as well. I can attest at how frightening it is to walk in here. Each word is first seen as a 'danger' and a person constantly feel 'on edge'......I beg you to ignore the fear.....please. Yes, there are those who come in looking for a fight. We recently had one come in here for that very purpose and I recognized it for what it was. I do not think that is the case here. Please, draw back and let us all remember the lessons that the wonder of Ramadan teaches...You, above me, would know this lesson.

 

[a_stranger]

locks over hearts

(Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are there locks over their hearts?)

Translation of the meanings of Quran

Locks over hearts prevent the Qur'an from reaching and entering into their hearts as if it is in front of a shut door?.


What are the locks?

Arrogance and the cure for it to understand deeply that we are creatures not creators.

Islam trains muslems to humble themselves by praying and making sujood practical mean) . Then gates of true uboodia (worshipping) will be opened. Islam needs a sincere efforts from purifed hearts to be understood and practiced .......Then lights of Allah will shine within hearts and gates of guidance will be opened .........Any one wants the Truth should lift the veils from his/her own heart and come with sincerity and humility and patience then by the will of Allah sobhanahu wa taala lights will shine within .

 

[a_stranger]

:salam2:

In their hearts is a disease (2:10)

Translation of the meanings of Quran



The locks that cover hearts and block the way to truth are diseases:

Hatred,envy, greed, lust, pride many other hidden diseases .

Gardens of Eternity beneath which rivers flow…such is the reward of those who purify themselves [of evil] (20:76)

Translation of the meanings of Quran

If a believer dies without having achieved purification in this life then Allah will begin his purification (tazkia) as soon as he enters the grave to prepare him for Paradise (place of perfect purity).The wise one starts right now.

 

[arzafar]

Hey Everybody! I'm not Muslim, but I am considering converting. I've recently successfully finished reading the entire Qur'an and I've come across some "questionable verses". These are verses that seemed contradictory or just plain uncharacteristic of God. I'll only bring up 4 for now. I will advise you to read the preceding and succeeding verses of all the verses I bring into question.

and how did you decide what is characteristic to god and what is not.

i dont know which god you have in mind but the only real god worthy of worship is Allah (swt). He can do any thing He wants, how He wants, when He wants! that includes, disease, earthquakes, burning people in hellfire for eternity, but also includes food, eyesight water and reward in jannah for eternity and basically everything we have or dont have. Moreover by following Islam properly we an avoid most of the bad things unless Allah wishes to test us
disease - by remaining lean as cleanliness is half faith
earthquakes and other disasters - by avoiding fornication, adultery etc
criminal activity - by enforcing shariah law

and many others.

the point is that Allah is all powerful and everything, good or bad (since good and bad are relative terms) or neither, comes from him.

so now you have to decide which God you want to worship, the one who created you and everything (actions, materials, laws) around you and which you somehow find un-godly or the one you have in mind?

 

[JenGiove]

Brother ayman1,

Thank you for your kind words, though it was unnecessary. As the resident non-Muslim, Native English speaking, American with a limited knowledge of Islam and who is trying to learn more, I almost feel like it is a duty to try prevent possible unintentional arguments between "non-muslims" and my brother's and sister's that I have found here if I can. While I am FAR from perfect and have erred many times myself, this is a place for "consultation" not "debate" ( http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10352 ).

Also, in the rules, it states:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81
The Following is not allowed on the Forums, and in some cases an instant Ban on an user May be put in place:
- insults, racial slurs and swearing.

- Being disrespectful of Islam or any other Faith.

- Promoting Lies and Untruthful Links -

And once again I find:
Allah has said in The Qur'an "Tolerate patiently what they (the unbeliever) say and part from them in a polite manner" (73:10).
( http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9903 )

You see, I'm learning..

I had to reply to your quote above, though. If by blind you mean it literally, i.e., without seeing, then you're right. But if blind is metaphorical, as it has come to be understood, then Islamic faith is NOT blind trust. It is educated trust.

Brother, this is where judging another person's behavior and systems of beliefs come into play. Christian's say that faith is "blind", that there are some things that can not be proven with the senses and you just need to have trust in God that he would not allow you to "fall". The movie "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" comes to mind where 'Indi' takes that 'leap of faith' and steps off the ledge to find that he does not fall. Sometimes, you get to a point in learning about something where you can learn no further without taking that "leap of faith" and THEN your iman gets stronger, because the "proof" you needed was the results of having "blind faith". Faith brings faith. You know that.

We do that in life when we trust a doctor to operate on us, for example.

Having a degree on the wall does not mean you are a good doctor. It just means you graduated. A patient has "blind faith" in the people who certified him that the doctor is competent.

God tells us in the Quran to do exactly that and to never follow others blindly. The Quran talks about those who followed their rabbis and priests blindly and says that "they took them as lords beneath God." (9:31)

I'm no "scholar" but I think what is meant here is that you should not follow others without question. To do so is just plain idiotic! That's my opinion. That's also where cults come from. Those poor people who are so desperately looking for someone who loves them and gives them some form of meaning in their lives that they can understand and comprehend and relate to. That is following something blindly. Some people take that leap of faith prematurely and can only rely on their feelings and not actual documentation to strengthen their iman. Some people do it in Islam and some people do it in Christianity and some people do it in the religion of the purple people eaters...the religions are different, but the mentality is the same.

Muslims can and have done the same thing with their scholars. That's why God mentioned that verse, to warn us not to do the same. That observation is not mine only, it was written centuries ago by the highly esteemed scholar Ibn Hajar Al-`Asqalaani.

That's one of the great things I like about Islam. The debates. I call them "mental gymnastics". It sharpens the mind and stimulates creativity.

Brother, I want to thank you very much for this discussion. I've enjoyed it immensely! THIS is how faith should be discussed. Without judgment and with the goal of learning and enjoying the process.

 

[Asja]

1) Chapter 3 Verse 145 states,

"And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah the term is fixed; and whoever desires the reward of this world, I shall give him of it, and whoever desires the reward of the hereafter I shall give him of it, and I will reward the grateful."

2) Chapter 6 Verse 60 states,

"And He it is Who takes your souls at night (in sleep), and He knows what you acquire in the day, then He raises you up therein that an appointed term may be fulfilled; then to Him is your return, then He will inform you of what you were doing."

Hi, hello!

First of all welcome to our site,and I pray that Allah help you to find your answers,and that Inshallah you learn here more about Islaam and Allah is the best and the only Guider.ameen summa ameen

Regarding the first two ayahs from Quran, mashallah you have understood good some meaning of these two ayahs, although Allah only knows the best thier complete meaning.

As you said that Allah sais that He is the only one who takes life, it is truth, because Allah is the Creator of everything, Giver of life and death,and because He is Giver of everything, He has right to take life to whom He wish and in any time that He wish.If Allah is not taking something from our lifes, like you have mentioned,our health, wealth, of the lifes of our family members, than we would not have anything to fight for tomorow Inshallah, we would not make duas to Allah, because we would have everything, we would not learn how to be patinete if some hardship happens to us,and more of that our souls would become pridefull because we would have everything.That is the reason, why Allah is giving us happiness,and sometimes hardships as well.Allah is aslo telling us that He gave us free will to chose between good and wrong, and if you take knife to take away to yourselfe life Neuzubillah, than Allah will took you life if it be His will, but still there is your responsabilty in taking life to yourselfe.


"Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and Allah is sufficient as a witness."

Reagarding this ayah, its meaning is refering on human deeds, which means that everything good you do, you are doing for yourslefe and it is belonging to you, but it is again with the help of Allah. That is why every work we do we begin with asking help of Allah, because we know that without His help we may not do something good, so everything is again backing to Allah.And if you do something bad which is again meant on your bad deeds, it is from you only, because Allah is not taking noone to evil actions Astagfrullah, but only towerd good.

"And among them are they who listen to you, and We set (Literally: make) upon their hearts lids, (so) they do not comprehend it, and in their ears obstruction; and in case they see every sign, they do not believe in it, until (the time) when they come to you, they dispute with you. The ones who have disbelieved say, "Decidedly this is nothing except the myths of the earliest (peoples)."

As for this ayah it refers on people who do not wish to listen, because Allah knows how our human beings,and that betweeen human beings there are those who do not wish to listen you because of pride in thier hearts,and even if you bring him signs and proofs that something is wrong,he will not listen to you becuase his heart is covered as Allah sais and he is denying the truth.

I hope Inshallah that our answers will be usefull for you,and that you will still learn Allahs Book- Quran. May Allah help you on your way Inshallah,and guide and open your heart towerd the only truth. ameen summa ameen:tti_sister:

 

[ovomer]

nice thread indeed!!