about imam

[khan_saddozai]

:salam2:
first of all im not anti-imams or anything.
but recently in nsw austr. there has been a very annoying issue where a top muslim cleric has said uncovered women were like uncovered meat and that it was their fault if predetors attacked them.
these comments have reached the media and they are very angry and i dont blame them. that is not islam. in a sense that imam is inciting violence towards women. and i jus wanna let every1 noe wat he said is wrong.
i am jus furious at his comments and i think sum other imam that isnt goin to islam a bad name shud take his place.

 

[follower]

thats funny , i'll talk about it later coz im leaving now if u don't mind , salam .

 

[proudmuslimah]

I Agree

When I heard this on the news it made me very angry and frustrated. All the world ever sees about Islam is the negative. The media refuses to show the true side of Islam, because...well...that just wouldn't be "good" news.

People need to realize that this Imam is just a human being, and humans make mistakes. He had no right to degrade women in such a disgusting manner. Islam gives great respect and equality to women...Why has this been forgotten?? This is something I just don't understand........

 

[Mrmuslim]

:salam2:
first of all im not anti-imams or anything.
but recently in nsw austr. there has been a very annoying issue where a top muslim cleric has said uncovered women were like uncovered meat and that it was their fault if predetors attacked them.
these comments have reached the media and they are very angry and i dont blame them. that is not islam. in a sense that imam is inciting violence towards women. and i jus wanna let every1 noe wat he said is wrong.
i am jus furious at his comments and i think sum other imam that isnt goin to islam a bad name shud take his place.

salaam alikom, with all the respect to you I am not sure if you followed up the news or tried to figure out what happened after what he said, As I read he apologized for what he said, what he said was wrong in first place.
what ever he said in first place was wrong, but did the media published his apology? I read it on aljazeera, so what he made mistake pope did bigger mistake.
but I think we didnt do much a good job by calling an Imam as stupid. He is a Human being first and an Imam and he need to watch what he says but Hey who dosent have mistakes??

 

[Ayep]

Do not be misled by the press!

Asalamualaikum bros and sisters!

A week back B4 this topic was posted, I wanted to post it in this forum out of frustration. However soon I saw the reason why the media is jumping into this story. This is western anger to get back at Muslim's comment over the Pope's remark if we still remember.

The Pope 's ambiguious speech was directed to Muslims, however the Mufti's sermon was directed to we Muslims alone. Not to any other faiths. Actually there is no reason to be frustrated. Is'nt it a logical advice to wear modestly as not to invite stares from the general male population. Why did Islam call on Muslims to wear modestly? So no evil intentions might instigate sexual predators. Who are the predators? We do not know where they may be. Is'nt that what a Muslim parent should warn their daughters about when they go out? I see this not as an insult but a stern advice by the Mufti. Who else should advice the Muslim community- John Howard? Once again the western media is getting us Muslims hate each other.

Secondly is'nt the Mufti an Islamic scholar? Why are the non muslims and even ordinary Muslims making a fuss out of all of this. Are they more learned that this man? We as Muslims should see the bigger picture of the whole issue and not be frustrated because we cannot explain to our non Muslim friends about what was said. If the western media can tell us what to talk about in our mosques where do we stand as Muslims. Let not the west divide us again and again.

Do not judge people because only Allah judges!

Wasalam

 

[mosabaig]

Follow not the wrong doers..

:salam2:

I was deeply sadden by just the tital of this comments let alone the stupid

remarks ... if we donot respect the most respected persons in the sight of

Allah ... how we are going to get guidance .......may Allah help us seek the truth

and true understanding of Islam..

.Ameen

 

[Submitter]

:salam2:

In my opinion, I don't think what he was trying to say was wrong, but the way he said it definately was wrong and inappropriate. The news story can be found here for those of you who havn't seen or read it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6090136.stm

He definately could have used a better analogy:

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside... and the cats come and eat it... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat?"

Comparing women to uncovered meat isn't exactly going to please them now is it? But he did later apologise:

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments. I had only intended to protect women's honour. Women in our Australian society have the freedom and the right to dress as they choose."

I feel it was a genuine mistake and I'm sure he's learnt to be more careful with the words he uses next time. And with all due respect to you brother khan_saddozai, I wouldn't go as far as to call such a learned man "stupid".

 

[Mabsoot]

Asalamu alaykum,

We should not call anyone names.

His comments were incorrect. Islamically he was mistaken too.

Ok, firstly its not our job to critisise Non Muslim women for not conforming to Muslim clothing. Tell them about Islam first, get them to believe in Allah first!

Even if women wear revealing clothes, this does not mean they are the ones who are at fault for being raped. This Imam basically said that the only person at fault is the woman.

The way she dresses can have a bad outcome, especially if she doesnt dress appropriately by wearing revealing clothes, but the rapist is the one who is the criminal, it is he who should be punished not the victim, no matter her mistake.

Wasalam.

 

[Serafeddin]

:salam2: I am sorry but i don't feel calling the Imam stupid is right. He could have definetly used better judgement and choose his words carefully, but he is 100% right in his message. I don't remember any news story where a female dressed modestly with hijab getting harrassed, assaulted or raped, and just about every date raped or assulted women are not. I am not justfiying rapes, assaults or harrasment of women because they are not in hijab but the cause is pretty obvious. As far as apologizing, he did and i don't see why he should be suspended. Did the Danish government suspend or close the newspaper company for the cartoons? no it was justified as art and freedom of speech blah blah blah, or the vatican suspend the pope? or did george bush resign for his lies and crusade comments? Please don't be so quick to hang this imam. At least we as muslims are not going out of our way to say he was not wrong. Why is it that Muslims are required to be so politically correct and not offend anyone but its open season on Islam and Muslims. Stand up.

 

[italianmuslimah]

Asalamu alaykum,

We should not call anyone names.

His comments were incorrect. Islamically he was mistaken too.

Ok, firstly its not our job to critisise Non Muslim women for not conforming to Muslim clothing. Tell them about Islam first, get them to believe in Allah first!

Even if women wear revealing clothes, this does not mean they are the ones who are at fault for being raped. This Imam basically said that the only person at fault is the woman.

The way she dresses can have a bad outcome, especially if she doesnt dress appropriately by wearing revealing clothes, but the rapist is the one who is the criminal, it is he who should be punished not the victim, no matter her mistake.

Wasalam.

I absolutely agree and couldn't have put it better. As for the Australian cleric i'm glad that he apologised for his remarks...if he genuinely feels sorry for what he said then we should accept his apology...

 

[Ayep]

Any analogy can be targeted.

For all I know the Mufti has the right to use any analogy he chooses except one that involves other faiths, religion or creed. Obviously we cannot blame the cat for eating the meat... unless the cat is full, it will be a silly analogy.
I believe any analogy the Mufti uses will get the attention of the media since John Howard is an advocator of the anti Hijab issue which is a hot topic these days.

The Mufti is a smart person to apologise because this has spiralled out of control and have become political. John Howard is again sticking his nose where he should'nt and so the Mufti have to apologise to diffuse the situation.

However I believe these attacks on minor Islamic issues will not end here so Muslims should learn the Quran more so as not to be affected by these minor issues.

 

[kish223]

Say it like You mean it

:salam2:
I find it humorous that non-scholars are criticizing a scholar( and the mufti at that ) about aurat. Its like a primary school student telling a marketing student how to plan an advertising campaign. Maybe some of our colleagues are confused about the issue of aurat. The mufti did direct his sermon to muslims and for some reason the press got to know about it.

Let us not detract from the original purpose of his sermon, which is primarily aurat or exposing oneself more than is allowed in Islam. I dont recall him quoting from a byzantinian source on the subject of aurat.

The mufti has every right to voice his concern about the subject in question. If there is something that we should notice is that all new sisters who have recently reverted have made tremendous sacrifices to put on the hijab. Therefore let us not belittle their jihad. The issue of aurat is mentioned clearly in the Quran and Hadith.

Now the issue of exposed meat and covered meat or meat that is wrapped properly. Although blunt and untactful it maybe, I invite you to the subject of science and predation. Science tells us that if you leave a dead animal ( in this instance lets use beef ) and do not take steps to bury or preserve the meat thru proper storage facilities, the meat ultimately will rot in the open in a very short time. That I believe no one will disagree with. In the wilds, any exposed/dead meat will ( and I believe all of you will also agree with this ) be quickly taken care of by carrion eaters eg. hyenas, jackals, vultures.

Now if the meat is wrapped properly in a bag, newspaper or any other means and stored in the proper facility, it will lasts for a much longer period of time to the point of freshness. Dont even let me talk about the cat. My experience in air-conditioning and refrigeration mechanics tells me that I am scientifically correct. Therefore the analogy used by the mufti is correct.

I'm also quite sure that John Howard is not the right person to offer advise on 'Wildlife' issues. Pls refer to the Primary Production Dept on that subject.

 

[Oem Soufiane]

i didn't hear anything about it, but how you put in it seems to me thathe didn't say that these women should be molested, he probably meant that there is a greater chance they will be. Isn't this true? I think it is, it is just the way it was said. and no, it is not the womans fault if she gets raped (in most cases).

 

[Mrmuslim]

i didn't hear anything about it, but how you put in it seems to me thathe didn't say that these women should be molested, he probably meant that there is a greater chance they will be. Isn't this true? I think it is, it is just the way it was said. and no, it is not the womans fault if she gets raped (in most cases).

well that what he meant that if the women wear improper cloth men will be more attracted to her and there will be a greater chance that a crazy guy in between them who will try to to harm her. But the way he said it was wrong, the words he used were wrong and no one should accept them
but again HE apologized for using such words and he said he didnt mean what he said. But every one looking at what he said but NON is saying anything about his apology! i am not defending him, but we need to look at his apology then say what we want to say.

 

[Oem Soufiane]

that's what i mean brother, he meant the right thing and everybody is talking about how 'wrong' he was. I think he isn't wrong and what he tried to say wasn't wrong, just the way how, but this discussion is not neccessary, and even if he didn't appologise, what is everybody talking about his apoligies, lately everybody who has an opinion, wich a group of people don't like, should offer appologies. You need to hear the kafirun about us, and now all of the sudden it's in the media what our brother said and the world is upside down... And now the muslims are even convicting him. What is this, let the man be!

He meant the right thing allahu alim and intention is what counts for Allah swt. Everybody is judging the language of this scholar, while we all have our own issues to resolve.

'When you start looking for the mistakes of your brother, you have already destroyed him' (interpretation of a hadith from the book riyaad as-salihin)

 

[dido70]

can you please guys before you criticise The Imama for what he said or for the analogy he used give us an alternative for what he used for example he described women who bare their body that they are like a bare meat !
so could you tell me specially those who live in Europe what do you describe girls who stroll down street wearing inappropriate clothes
in summer time you can see girls walking down street wearing skirt and bra
can you emagine that or not ?
والسلام عليكم

 

[BintMuhammad]

I don't see anything wrong about what he said. Our imaams here mentions similar words during khutbah's. They even say like "If you were to buy a sandwich and you see two sandwiches, one is covered and the other is not, which would you prefer?" It has a point and I think the people who are reacting to the words of the Imaam are just too sensitive or perhaps guilty?

 

[alhamdulillah]

Bismillah,

Assalamualaykum dear brothers and sisters in Islam...

I believe its time to calm our nerves Insha'Allah....this is extending from one thing to another...lets not forget that we have no right to mock at anyone....Allah has taught us not to repel bad with bad, but to repel it with good..............

Just as a general reminder: 'If one takes the step to apologise, proves that he has a big heart, but if one accepts the apology and overlooks the fault of another, has an even bigger heart!'........

Condsidering that this topic has now reached its end, THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED (and is NOT to re-open Insha'Allah)!

I leave you all in the View if Ar-Raheem

Ma'Salama...